How do the Arcane Archers Seeking Arrow and a Rogues Sneak Attack function together, if at all? You're not making an attack roll but you could theoretically catch someone off guard with it (Shoot a human in the dark from 500ft away). What if you have an ally beside them?
Beginning at 1st level, you know how to strike subtly and exploit a foe’s distraction. Once per turn, you can deal an extra 1d6 damage to one creature you hit with an attack if you have advantage on the attack roll. The attack must use a finesse or a ranged weapon.
You don’t need advantage on the attack roll if another enemy of the target is within 5 feet of it, that enemy isn’t incapacitated, and you don’t have disadvantage on the attack roll.
And seeking arrow says:
Seeking Arrow. Using divination magic, you grant your arrow the ability to seek out a target. When you use this option, you don’t make an attack roll for the attack. Instead, choose one creature you have seen in the past minute. The arrow flies toward that creature, moving around corners if necessary and ignoring three-quarters cover and half cover. If the target is within the weapon’s range and there is a path large enough for the arrow to travel to the target, the target must make a Dexterity saving throw. Otherwise, the arrow disappears after traveling as far as it can. On a failed save, the target takes damage as if it were hit by the arrow, plus an extra 1d6 force damage, and you learn the target’s current location. On a successful save, the target takes half as much damage, and you don’t learn its location.
And at no point while reading Sneak Attack did I see that your attack had to involve an attack roll. All it requires is that you attack come from a finesse or ranged weapon, and that you either have advantage or an ally nearby the target. So.......works fine?
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"The mongoose blew out its candle and was asleep in bed before the room went dark." —Llanowar fable
If I'm reading the information correctly, Arcane Arrow simply augments the effect of your attack. Under Seeking Arrow you find the line " As an action, choose one creature you have seen in the past minute, and make a ranged attack against it* using the Arcane Arrow". This would imply, to me, that there is an attack roll, which could then allow you to make your sneak attack if the circumstances allow.
If there is an ally adjacent to the target, you could potentially be granted advantage on the roll due to flanking/help action you would be granted sneak attack. (Thanks Metamongoose)
He was specifically addressing the Feat Sharpshooter in his answer, which specifically requires an attack roll to function. Sneak Attack does not require an attack roll, just an attack.
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"The mongoose blew out its candle and was asleep in bed before the room went dark." —Llanowar fable
I would say that you can get a sneak attack on a seeking arrow, but only if there is an ally within 5' of the target - because you can't get advantage on the attack roll when there is no attack roll, so nearby ally is the only method left to get the bonus. Also, personally I would only grant the sneak attack bonus if the target failed their dexterity save, because sneak attack should never be guaranteed.
He was specifically addressing the Feat Sharpshooter in his answer, which specifically requires an attack roll to function. Sneak Attack does not require an attack roll, just an attack.
Both ways of using Sneak Attack absolutely require 1) a hit and 2) an attack roll. If there's no attack roll involved, there can't be a hit. If there's no attack roll involved, you're not meeting the condition of having advantage on the attack roll or not having disadvantage while there's an enemy of your target nearby.
Seeking Arrow has no attack roll and thus can't result in a hit.
Seeking Arrow has no attack roll and thus can't result in a hit.
Debatable. It doesn't result in a "hit", but it is definitely still an attack, and it does result in "damage as if it were hit by the arrow". What would the damage be if the creature were hit by the arrow? One could argue that that damage from that hit would include sneak attack damage (if there is an ally within 5' of the target).
5e likes to pretend it uses plain English, and doesn't rely on key words, but it kind of keeps a foot in both camps - and that results in messes like these.
Not debatable. No hit? No Sneak Attack. No attack roll to have advantage or not have disadvantage on? No Sneak Attack.
How do you calculate the damage then? The damage is the damage of an attack hit. There is no other definition of the damage of being hit by this arrow. An attack hit would include sneak attack damage under certain circumstances. Thus it possible to argue/debate this - I just did - thus it is debatable. You disagree and that's fine. I suspect the game creators, if they were forced to rule on this specific case, would agree with you and that's fine too. This is the main reason I don't allow multi-classing at all in my games; because it is a recipe for these hard to resolve situations, and you are going to end up with players and DMs with different expectations for the effectiveness of certain combinations.
Not debatable. No hit? No Sneak Attack. No attack roll to have advantage or not have disadvantage on? No Sneak Attack.
How do you calculate the damage then? The damage is the damage of an attack hit. There is no other definition of the damage of being hit by this arrow. An attack hit would include sneak attack damage under certain circumstances. Thus it possible to argue/debate this - I just did - thus it is debatable. You disagree and that's fine. I suspect the game creators, if they were forced to rule on this specific case, would agree with you and that's fine too. This is the main reason I don't allow multi-classing at all in my games; because it is a recipe for these hard to resolve situations, and you are going to end up with players and DMs with different expectations for the effectiveness of certain combinations.
Crawford's answer was "If a feature, such as Sneak Attack and Assassinate, does something special when an attack hits, that special effect doesn't occur if there's no attack roll that hits." Seeking Arrow does not include an attack roll, therefore there is no "attack roll that hits", therefore no Sneak Attack. That's why it's not debatable, because one of the defined requirements for Sneak Attack is not met. The fact that the damage from Seeking Arrow is defined as the same damage "as if it were hit by the arrow, plus an extra 1d6 force damage" does not change the fact that there was no attack roll. Now, if you want to change the rules for your game so that Sneak Attack DOES get applied, go for it. But you would be changing the rules to do so.
How do the Arcane Archers Seeking Arrow and a Rogues Sneak Attack function together, if at all? You're not making an attack roll but you could theoretically catch someone off guard with it (Shoot a human in the dark from 500ft away). What if you have an ally beside them?
Well sneak attack says:
And seeking arrow says:
And at no point while reading Sneak Attack did I see that your attack had to involve an attack roll. All it requires is that you attack come from a finesse or ranged weapon, and that you either have advantage or an ally nearby the target. So.......works fine?
If I'm reading the information correctly, Arcane Arrow simply augments the effect of your attack. Under Seeking Arrow you find the line " As an action, choose one creature you have seen in the past minute, and make a ranged attack against it* using the Arcane Arrow". This would imply, to me, that there is an attack roll, which could then allow you to make your sneak attack if the circumstances allow.
If there is an ally adjacent to the target,
you could potentially be granted advantage on the roll due to flanking/help actionyou would be granted sneak attack. (Thanks Metamongoose)*emphasis mine, quote is taken from Unearthed Arcana
Crawford addressed this last year - https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/943238325631991808
Basically, features or effects that trigger when an attack hits require an attack roll that, well....hits.
He was specifically addressing the Feat Sharpshooter in his answer, which specifically requires an attack roll to function. Sneak Attack does not require an attack roll, just an attack.
I would say that you can get a sneak attack on a seeking arrow, but only if there is an ally within 5' of the target - because you can't get advantage on the attack roll when there is no attack roll, so nearby ally is the only method left to get the bonus. Also, personally I would only grant the sneak attack bonus if the target failed their dexterity save, because sneak attack should never be guaranteed.
Both ways of using Sneak Attack absolutely require 1) a hit and 2) an attack roll. If there's no attack roll involved, there can't be a hit. If there's no attack roll involved, you're not meeting the condition of having advantage on the attack roll or not having disadvantage while there's an enemy of your target nearby.
Seeking Arrow has no attack roll and thus can't result in a hit.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
Debatable. It doesn't result in a "hit", but it is definitely still an attack, and it does result in "damage as if it were hit by the arrow". What would the damage be if the creature were hit by the arrow? One could argue that that damage from that hit would include sneak attack damage (if there is an ally within 5' of the target).
5e likes to pretend it uses plain English, and doesn't rely on key words, but it kind of keeps a foot in both camps - and that results in messes like these.
Not debatable. No hit? No Sneak Attack. No attack roll to have advantage or not have disadvantage on? No Sneak Attack.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
How do you calculate the damage then? The damage is the damage of an attack hit. There is no other definition of the damage of being hit by this arrow. An attack hit would include sneak attack damage under certain circumstances. Thus it possible to argue/debate this - I just did - thus it is debatable. You disagree and that's fine. I suspect the game creators, if they were forced to rule on this specific case, would agree with you and that's fine too. This is the main reason I don't allow multi-classing at all in my games; because it is a recipe for these hard to resolve situations, and you are going to end up with players and DMs with different expectations for the effectiveness of certain combinations.
Crawford's answer was "If a feature, such as Sneak Attack and Assassinate, does something special when an attack hits, that special effect doesn't occur if there's no attack roll that hits." Seeking Arrow does not include an attack roll, therefore there is no "attack roll that hits", therefore no Sneak Attack. That's why it's not debatable, because one of the defined requirements for Sneak Attack is not met. The fact that the damage from Seeking Arrow is defined as the same damage "as if it were hit by the arrow, plus an extra 1d6 force damage" does not change the fact that there was no attack roll. Now, if you want to change the rules for your game so that Sneak Attack DOES get applied, go for it. But you would be changing the rules to do so.
I'm definitely in the "you can not sneak attack with seeking arrow" camp.
Sneak attack absolutely requires an attack roll. That is why "attack roll" is mentioned in its description 3 times.