How does this work with the new abilities we're getting where everything is "proficiency times per rest"? I know most will say "just ignore it and use the normal PB scaling" but I want a RAW answers first, if possible (just showing your homebrew is unhelpful). Has this been in any sage advice?
So, as far as I could tell, it doesn't. The designers have gone on record as saying they don't build or balance features of the game baised on optional rules. They have said this about multiclassing, spell points, gritty realism, and several other things. Interestingly, this is not the case with a lot of the "optional" rules they implemented in Tashas, which they have specifically stated as being the new design philosophy going forward.
I'm currently at work and on my phone but when I get the chance I'll update this post or make a new post with links to official statements that have been made regarding optional rules.
If you want a RAW answer it is this: "Instead of adding a proficiency bonus to an ability check, an attack roll, or saving throw, the character’s player rolls a die."
So as written the optional rule only applies to an ability check, an attack roll, or saving throw. Any other use of proficiency bonus like damage, healing, uses per day, etc. would use the normal proficiency bonus.
Interestingly it then goes on to say that for effects like Expertise you roll the proficiency die twice but nothing about effects like Jack of All Trades that have you add half your proficiency bonus. If you want to use the proficiency bonus die concept in a way not covered by the optional rule then feel free to experiment and find what is fun for your table.
If you want a RAW answer it is this: "Instead of adding a proficiency bonus to an ability check, an attack roll, or saving throw, the character’s player rolls a die."
So as written the optional rule only applies to an ability check, an attack roll, or saving throw. Any other use of proficiency bonus like damage, healing, uses per day, etc. would use the normal proficiency bonus.
Interestingly it then goes on to say that for effects like Expertise you roll the proficiency die twice but nothing about effects like Jack of All Trades that have you add half your proficiency bonus. If you want to use the proficiency bonus die concept in a way not covered by the optional rule then feel free to experiment and find what is fun for your table.
Expertise raises a Skill from “Proficient” to “Twice Proficient.” Jack of all Trades only works on Ability checks for which one lacks Proficiency.
If you want a RAW answer it is this: "Instead of adding a proficiency bonus to an ability check, an attack roll, or saving throw, the character’s player rolls a die."
So as written the optional rule only applies to an ability check, an attack roll, or saving throw. Any other use of proficiency bonus like damage, healing, uses per day, etc. would use the normal proficiency bonus.
Interestingly it then goes on to say that for effects like Expertise you roll the proficiency die twice but nothing about effects like Jack of All Trades that have you add half your proficiency bonus. If you want to use the proficiency bonus die concept in a way not covered by the optional rule then feel free to experiment and find what is fun for your table.
Expertise raises a Skill from “Proficient” to “Twice Proficient.” Jack of all Trades only works on Ability checks for which one lacks Proficiency.
Those ability checks include skill checks so if a rogue with Expertise in stealth would make a stealth (dexterity) roll with two proficiency dice and add them together. A bard without proficiency in stealth can make a stealth (dexterity) roll with one proficiency die and divide by 2 (rounding down) and add it. At least that’s how I would do it. How RAW that is? Not sure.
If you want a RAW answer it is this: "Instead of adding a proficiency bonus to an ability check, an attack roll, or saving throw, the character’s player rolls a die."
So as written the optional rule only applies to an ability check, an attack roll, or saving throw. Any other use of proficiency bonus like damage, healing, uses per day, etc. would use the normal proficiency bonus.
Interestingly it then goes on to say that for effects like Expertise you roll the proficiency die twice but nothing about effects like Jack of All Trades that have you add half your proficiency bonus. If you want to use the proficiency bonus die concept in a way not covered by the optional rule then feel free to experiment and find what is fun for your table.
Expertise raises a Skill from “Proficient” to “Twice Proficient.” Jack of all Trades only works on Ability checks for which one lacks Proficiency.
Those ability checks include skill checks so if a rogue with Expertise in stealth would make a stealth (dexterity) roll with two proficiency dice and add them together. A bard without proficiency in stealth can make a stealth (dexterity) roll with one proficiency die and divide by 2 (rounding down) and add it. At least that’s how I would do it. How RAW that is? Not sure.
There are no such things as “skill checks” in 5e, there are only Ability checks.
Proficiency Bonus
Characters have a proficiency bonus determined by level, as detailed in "Step-By-Step Characters." Monsters also have this bonus, which is incorporated in their stat blocks. The bonus is used in the rules on ability checks, saving throws, and attack rolls.
Your proficiency bonus can’t be added to a single die roll or other number more than once. For example, if two different rules say you can add your proficiency bonus to a Wisdom saving throw, you nevertheless add the bonus only once when you make the save.
Occasionally, your proficiency bonus might be multiplied or divided (doubled or halved, for example) before you apply it. For example, the rogue’s Expertise feature doubles the proficiency bonus for certain ability checks. If a circumstance suggests that your proficiency bonus applies more than once to the same roll, you still add it only once and multiply or divide it only once.
By the same token, if a feature or effect allows you to multiply your proficiency bonus when making an ability check that wouldn’t normally benefit from your proficiency bonus, you still don’t add the bonus to the check. For that check your proficiency bonus is 0, given the fact that multiplying 0 by any number is still 0. For instance, if you lack proficiency in the History skill, you gain no benefit from a feature that lets you double your proficiency bonus when you make Intelligence (History) checks.
In general, you don’t multiply your proficiency bonus for attack rolls or saving throws. If a feature or effect allows you to do so, these same rules apply.
An ability check tests a character's or monster's innate talent and training in an effort to overcome a challenge. The DM calls for an ability check when a character or monster attempts an action (other than an attack) that has a chance of failure. When the outcome is uncertain, the dice determine the results.
For every ability check, the DM decides which of the six abilities is relevant to the task at hand and the difficulty of the task, represented by a Difficulty Class. The more difficult a task, the higher its DC. The Typical Difficulty Classes table shows the most common DCs.
Each ability covers a broad range of capabilities, including skills that a character or a monster can be proficient in. A skill represents a specific aspect of an ability score, and an individual's proficiency in a skill demonstrates a focus on that aspect. (A character's starting skill proficiencies are determined at character creation, and a monster's skill proficiencies appear in the monster's stat block.)
For example, a Dexterity check might reflect a character's attempt to pull off an acrobatic stunt, to palm an object, or to stay hidden. Each of these aspects of Dexterity has an associated skill: Acrobatics, Sleight of Hand, and Stealth, respectively. So a character who has proficiency in the Stealth skill is particularly good at Dexterity checks related to sneaking and hiding.
[sic]
Sometimes, the DM might ask for an ability check using a specific skill--for example, “Make a Wisdom (Perception) check.” At other times, a player might ask the DM if proficiency in a particular skill applies to a check. In either case, proficiency in a skill means an individual can add his or her proficiency bonus to ability checks that involve that skill. Without proficiency in the skill, the individual makes a normal ability check.
For example, if a character attempts to climb up a dangerous cliff, the DM might ask for a Strength (Athletics) check. If the character is proficient in Athletics, the character's proficiency bonus is added to the Strength check. If the character lacks that proficiency, he or she just makes a Strength check.
This optional rule replaces a character’s proficiency bonus with a proficiency die, adding more randomness to the game and making proficiency a less reliable indicator of mastery. Instead of adding a proficiency bonus to an ability check, an attack roll, or saving throw, the character’s player rolls a die. The Proficiency Die table shows which die or dice to roll, as determined by the character’s level.
Whenever a feature, such as the rogue’s Expertise, lets a character double his or her proficiency bonus, the player rolls the character’s proficiency die twice instead of once.
This option is intended for player characters and nonplayer characters who have levels, as opposed to monsters who don’t.
Starting at 2nd level, you can add half your proficiency bonus, rounded down, to any ability check you make that doesn’t already include your proficiency bonus.
I would probably decrement the die size accordingly:
Level
Proficiency Bonus
Proficiency Die
Sposta’s “Half Proficiency Die”👇
1st–4th
+2
1d4
1
5th–8th
+3
1d6
1d2*
9th–12th
+4
1d8
1d3*
13th–16th
+5
1d10
1d4
17th–20th
+6
1d12
1d6
Edit: 👉The average of each of those “Half Proficiency Dice” is = ½ the average of the corresponding Proficiency Dice.
Game Dice
The game uses polyhedral dice with different numbers of sides. You can find dice like these in game stores and in many bookstores.
In these rules, the different dice are referred to by the letter d followed by the number of sides: d4, d6, d8, d10, d12, and d20. For instance, a d6 is a six-sided die (the typical cube that many games use).
Percentile dice, or d100, work a little differently. You generate a number between 1 and 100 by rolling two different ten-sided dice numbered from 0 to 9. One die (designated before you roll) gives the tens digit, and the other gives the ones digit. If you roll a 7 and a 1, for example, the number rolled is 71. Two 0s represent 100. Some ten-sided dice are numbered in tens (00, 10, 20, and so on), making it easier to distinguish the tens digit from the ones digit. In this case, a roll of 70 and 1 is 71, and 00 and 0 is 100.
When you need to roll dice, the rules tell you how many dice to roll of a certain type, as well as what modifiers to add. For example, “3d8 + 5” means you roll three eight-sided dice, add them together, and add 5 to the total.
*The same d notation appears in the expressions “1d3” and “1d2.” To simulate the roll of 1d3, roll a d6 and divide the number rolled by 2 (round up). To simulate the roll of 1d2, roll any die and assign a 1 or 2 to the roll depending on whether it was odd or even. (Alternatively, if the number rolled is more than half the number of sides on the die, it’s a 2.)
For the uninitated: https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dmg/dungeon-masters-workshop#ProficiencyDice ...
So, basically you roll a die instead of getting a static proficiency bonus.
How does this work with the new abilities we're getting where everything is "proficiency times per rest"? I know most will say "just ignore it and use the normal PB scaling" but I want a RAW answers first, if possible (just showing your homebrew is unhelpful). Has this been in any sage advice?
Thoughts currently on my front:
Er ek geng, þat er í þeim skóm er ek valda.
UwU
So, as far as I could tell, it doesn't. The designers have gone on record as saying they don't build or balance features of the game baised on optional rules. They have said this about multiclassing, spell points, gritty realism, and several other things. Interestingly, this is not the case with a lot of the "optional" rules they implemented in Tashas, which they have specifically stated as being the new design philosophy going forward.
I'm currently at work and on my phone but when I get the chance I'll update this post or make a new post with links to official statements that have been made regarding optional rules.
Buyers Guide for D&D Beyond - Hardcover Books, D&D Beyond and You - How/What is Toggled Content?
Everything you need to know about Homebrew - Homebrew FAQ - Digital Book on D&D Beyond Vs Physical Books
Can't find the content you are supposed to have access to? Read this FAQ.
"Play the game however you want to play the game. After all, your fun doesn't threaten my fun."
If it were me I would leave the number of uses the same as that is the average of the proficiency die (rounded down, as normal):
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
If you want a RAW answer it is this: "Instead of adding a proficiency bonus to an ability check, an attack roll, or saving throw, the character’s player rolls a die."
So as written the optional rule only applies to an ability check, an attack roll, or saving throw. Any other use of proficiency bonus like damage, healing, uses per day, etc. would use the normal proficiency bonus.
Interestingly it then goes on to say that for effects like Expertise you roll the proficiency die twice but nothing about effects like Jack of All Trades that have you add half your proficiency bonus. If you want to use the proficiency bonus die concept in a way not covered by the optional rule then feel free to experiment and find what is fun for your table.
Expertise raises a Skill from “Proficient” to “Twice Proficient.” Jack of all Trades only works on Ability checks for which one lacks Proficiency.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Those ability checks include skill checks so if a rogue with Expertise in stealth would make a stealth (dexterity) roll with two proficiency dice and add them together. A bard without proficiency in stealth can make a stealth (dexterity) roll with one proficiency die and divide by 2 (rounding down) and add it. At least that’s how I would do it. How RAW that is? Not sure.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
There are no such things as “skill checks” in 5e, there are only Ability checks.
Proficiency Bonus
Characters have a proficiency bonus determined by level, as detailed in "Step-By-Step Characters." Monsters also have this bonus, which is incorporated in their stat blocks. The bonus is used in the rules on ability checks, saving throws, and attack rolls.
Your proficiency bonus can’t be added to a single die roll or other number more than once. For example, if two different rules say you can add your proficiency bonus to a Wisdom saving throw, you nevertheless add the bonus only once when you make the save.
Occasionally, your proficiency bonus might be multiplied or divided (doubled or halved, for example) before you apply it. For example, the rogue’s Expertise feature doubles the proficiency bonus for certain ability checks. If a circumstance suggests that your proficiency bonus applies more than once to the same roll, you still add it only once and multiply or divide it only once.
By the same token, if a feature or effect allows you to multiply your proficiency bonus when making an ability check that wouldn’t normally benefit from your proficiency bonus, you still don’t add the bonus to the check. For that check your proficiency bonus is 0, given the fact that multiplying 0 by any number is still 0. For instance, if you lack proficiency in the History skill, you gain no benefit from a feature that lets you double your proficiency bonus when you make Intelligence (History) checks.
In general, you don’t multiply your proficiency bonus for attack rolls or saving throws. If a feature or effect allows you to do so, these same rules apply.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/using-ability-scores#ProficiencyBonus
Ability Checks
An ability check tests a character's or monster's innate talent and training in an effort to overcome a challenge. The DM calls for an ability check when a character or monster attempts an action (other than an attack) that has a chance of failure. When the outcome is uncertain, the dice determine the results.
For every ability check, the DM decides which of the six abilities is relevant to the task at hand and the difficulty of the task, represented by a Difficulty Class. The more difficult a task, the higher its DC. The Typical Difficulty Classes table shows the most common DCs.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/using-ability-scores#AbilityChecks
Skills
Each ability covers a broad range of capabilities, including skills that a character or a monster can be proficient in. A skill represents a specific aspect of an ability score, and an individual's proficiency in a skill demonstrates a focus on that aspect. (A character's starting skill proficiencies are determined at character creation, and a monster's skill proficiencies appear in the monster's stat block.)For example, a Dexterity check might reflect a character's attempt to pull off an acrobatic stunt, to palm an object, or to stay hidden. Each of these aspects of Dexterity has an associated skill: Acrobatics, Sleight of Hand, and Stealth, respectively. So a character who has proficiency in the Stealth skill is particularly good at Dexterity checks related to sneaking and hiding.
[sic]
Sometimes, the DM might ask for an ability check using a specific skill--for example, “Make a Wisdom (Perception) check.” At other times, a player might ask the DM if proficiency in a particular skill applies to a check. In either case, proficiency in a skill means an individual can add his or her proficiency bonus to ability checks that involve that skill. Without proficiency in the skill, the individual makes a normal ability check.
For example, if a character attempts to climb up a dangerous cliff, the DM might ask for a Strength (Athletics) check. If the character is proficient in Athletics, the character's proficiency bonus is added to the Strength check. If the character lacks that proficiency, he or she just makes a Strength check.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/using-ability-scores#Skills
Giving the rules a look here:
I would probably decrement the die size accordingly:
Edit: 👉The average of each of those “Half Proficiency Dice” is = ½ the average of the corresponding Proficiency Dice.
Game Dice
The game uses polyhedral dice with different numbers of sides. You can find dice like these in game stores and in many bookstores.
In these rules, the different dice are referred to by the letter d followed by the number of sides: d4, d6, d8, d10, d12, and d20. For instance, a d6 is a six-sided die (the typical cube that many games use).
Percentile dice, or d100, work a little differently. You generate a number between 1 and 100 by rolling two different ten-sided dice numbered from 0 to 9. One die (designated before you roll) gives the tens digit, and the other gives the ones digit. If you roll a 7 and a 1, for example, the number rolled is 71. Two 0s represent 100. Some ten-sided dice are numbered in tens (00, 10, 20, and so on), making it easier to distinguish the tens digit from the ones digit. In this case, a roll of 70 and 1 is 71, and 00 and 0 is 100.
When you need to roll dice, the rules tell you how many dice to roll of a certain type, as well as what modifiers to add. For example, “3d8 + 5” means you roll three eight-sided dice, add them together, and add 5 to the total.
*The same d notation appears in the expressions “1d3” and “1d2.” To simulate the roll of 1d3, roll a d6 and divide the number rolled by 2 (round up). To simulate the roll of 1d2, roll any die and assign a 1 or 2 to the roll depending on whether it was odd or even. (Alternatively, if the number rolled is more than half the number of sides on the die, it’s a 2.)https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/introduction#GameDice
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting