My character has the ability to cast a level 1 Cleric spell through the Feat: Magic Initiate (Cleric). My question is if I give myself advantage through Tides of Chaos and then later cast a level 1 Cleric spell would this allow the DM to have me roll on the Wild Magic Surge table?
Tides of Chaos - PHB 103
"Once per long rest, you can gain advantage on one attack roll, ability check, or saving throw. Before you regain use of this feature, the DM can have you roll on the Wild Magic Surge table after you cast a 1st level or higher spell. You then regain the use of this feature."
There is no mention here that the spell has to be a Sorcerer's spell the way Wild Magic Surge explicitly states "Once per turn, the DM can have you roll a d20 immediately after you cast a sorcerer spell of 1st level or higher. If you roll a 1, roll on the Wild Magic Surge table to create a magical effect."
Rules as Written I would think that the Cleric spell could trigger Tides of Chaos's > Wild Magic Surge Table roll. Rules as Intended I feel like it would not, since I think Wild Magic Surge Table is really intended for Sorcerer spells only. Thoughts?
Tides of Chaos doesn't sound like it's triggered, you decide to use it to gain advantage on the things it says you can. Attack roll, ability check or saving throw. If your cleric spell or even cantrip can make a melee or range spell attack, I would say that qulifies as an attack roll.
Understood, I wasn't clear. I'm wondering if chose to get the advantage and then later cast a level 1 cleric spell, can the DM have me roll on the Wild Magic Surge table? Or is he/she not allowed to have me roll on the wild magic table because I cast a Cleric spell, not a Sorcerer spell
From what you have written, I would say that it's up to the DM but probably works with the Cleric spell. What you have written for Tides of Chaos doesn't match with the App version of DnDBeyond or the website version. Both state:
Tides of Chaos
Starting at 1st level, you can manipulate the forces of chance and chaos to gain advantage on one attack roll, ability check, or saving throw. Once you do so, you must finish a long rest before you can use this feature again.
Any time before you regain the use of this feature, the DM can have you roll on the Wild Magic Surge table immediately after you cast a sorcerer spell of 1st level or higher. You then regain the use of this feature.
Thus the advantage could be used on the cleric spell, but the cleric spell wouldn't trigger the roll to regain the Tides of Chaos early.
I just checked both copies of the PHB that I have access to and they both specify Sorcerer spells for Tides of Chaos. Unless you've got a new copy that has new errata, I'd rule that the cleric spell wouldn't trigger the Tides of Chaos refresh by having you roll on the Wild Magic Surge table.
Thank you so much. My problem was reading the character sheet and assuming it was a quote because of the page reference. I copy pasted from there but you are absolutely right. The actual full description clears this up completely.
I'll admit I was fully triggered when you said it didn't match since I knew I copy pasted. If I had just clicked it the full help text would have popped up with the additional detail I was looking for.
Yeah, the short descriptions in DDB are very handy and usually capture the important details, but it's good to refer to the full text when you start getting into corner cases like these.
Thank you so much. My problem was reading the character sheet and assuming it was a quote because of the page reference. I copy pasted from there but you are absolutely right. The actual full description clears this up completely.
I'll admit I was fully triggered when you said it didn't match since I knew I copy pasted. If I had just clicked it the full help text would have popped up with the additional detail I was looking for.
You're a gentleman and a scholar.
One of the problems with rules like D&D has is that it's somewhat of a living document and subject to changes in the form of errata. The two PHBs that I have aren't the same as one's first edition while the other is corrected with whatever errata was in place at the time. I've also seen where some places on DnDBeyond don't talk to each other and occasionally they have different versions of the text. I've also been in a situation where someone was quoting directly from a new book that had changes made and the errata wasn't released yet. There's enough different ways to have different text that looks legit that it's not a bad idea to cross reference them if you're worried about specific language.
Good to know that the character sheet is another to cross reference if the specific language is important.
One of the problems with rules like D&D has is that it's somewhat of a living document and subject to changes in the form of errata. The two PHBs that I have aren't the same as one's first edition while the other is corrected with whatever errata was in place at the time.
To be fair, the game's designers are very conservative when it comes to issuing errata precisely because they don't want players to feel like the rules are a moving target and their Player's Handbook will quickly become obsolete. I'm fairly sure the PH has had the most errata out of any book, and it's only had 1 errata per year in 2015, 2016, 2017 and 2018. Of those, only the first and the last added huge changes.
One of the problems with rules like D&D has is that it's somewhat of a living document and subject to changes in the form of errata. The two PHBs that I have aren't the same as one's first edition while the other is corrected with whatever errata was in place at the time.
To be fair, the game's designers are very conservative when it comes to issuing errata precisely because they don't want players to feel like the rules are a moving target and their Player's Handbook will quickly become obsolete. I'm fairly sure the PH has had the most errata out of any book, and it's only had 1 errata per year in 2015, 2016, 2017 and 2018. Of those, only the first and the last added huge changes.
Certainly understand the reasoning and I wasn't complaining at all. It's just something that people need to be aware of. DnDBeyond usually does a pretty good job of keeping the text up to date and they are revamping quite a bit if the system, which means that the parts that don't talk to each other might get sorted out soon.
As physical print documents continue to fade while digital copies multiply, there will probably come a point where this concern will kinda disappear. It would even be a good idea to keep the old text in an expandable window or other such, so that the reader can actually look at what was changed, and perhaps a blurb explaining why.
We're still a long way off from that, but that day will come.
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My character has the ability to cast a level 1 Cleric spell through the Feat: Magic Initiate (Cleric). My question is if I give myself advantage through Tides of Chaos and then later cast a level 1 Cleric spell would this allow the DM to have me roll on the Wild Magic Surge table?
Tides of Chaos - PHB 103
"Once per long rest, you can gain advantage on one attack roll, ability check, or saving throw. Before you regain use of this feature, the DM can have you roll on the Wild Magic Surge table after you cast a 1st level or higher spell. You then regain the use of this feature."
There is no mention here that the spell has to be a Sorcerer's spell the way Wild Magic Surge explicitly states "Once per turn, the DM can have you roll a d20 immediately after you cast a sorcerer spell of 1st level or higher. If you roll a 1, roll on the Wild Magic Surge table to create a magical effect."
Rules as Written I would think that the Cleric spell could trigger Tides of Chaos's > Wild Magic Surge Table roll. Rules as Intended I feel like it would not, since I think Wild Magic Surge Table is really intended for Sorcerer spells only. Thoughts?
Edited for further clarification
Tides of Chaos doesn't sound like it's triggered, you decide to use it to gain advantage on the things it says you can. Attack roll, ability check or saving throw. If your cleric spell or even cantrip can make a melee or range spell attack, I would say that qulifies as an attack roll.
Understood, I wasn't clear. I'm wondering if chose to get the advantage and then later cast a level 1 cleric spell, can the DM have me roll on the Wild Magic Surge table? Or is he/she not allowed to have me roll on the wild magic table because I cast a Cleric spell, not a Sorcerer spell
From what you have written, I would say that it's up to the DM but probably works with the Cleric spell. What you have written for Tides of Chaos doesn't match with the App version of DnDBeyond or the website version. Both state:
Tides of Chaos
Starting at 1st level, you can manipulate the forces of chance and chaos to gain advantage on one attack roll, ability check, or saving throw. Once you do so, you must finish a long rest before you can use this feature again.
Any time before you regain the use of this feature, the DM can have you roll on the Wild Magic Surge table immediately after you cast a sorcerer spell of 1st level or higher. You then regain the use of this feature.
Thus the advantage could be used on the cleric spell, but the cleric spell wouldn't trigger the roll to regain the Tides of Chaos early.
I just checked both copies of the PHB that I have access to and they both specify Sorcerer spells for Tides of Chaos. Unless you've got a new copy that has new errata, I'd rule that the cleric spell wouldn't trigger the Tides of Chaos refresh by having you roll on the Wild Magic Surge table.
Thank you so much. My problem was reading the character sheet and assuming it was a quote because of the page reference. I copy pasted from there but you are absolutely right. The actual full description clears this up completely.
I'll admit I was fully triggered when you said it didn't match since I knew I copy pasted. If I had just clicked it the full help text would have popped up with the additional detail I was looking for.
You're a gentleman and a scholar.
Yeah, the short descriptions in DDB are very handy and usually capture the important details, but it's good to refer to the full text when you start getting into corner cases like these.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
One of the problems with rules like D&D has is that it's somewhat of a living document and subject to changes in the form of errata. The two PHBs that I have aren't the same as one's first edition while the other is corrected with whatever errata was in place at the time. I've also seen where some places on DnDBeyond don't talk to each other and occasionally they have different versions of the text. I've also been in a situation where someone was quoting directly from a new book that had changes made and the errata wasn't released yet. There's enough different ways to have different text that looks legit that it's not a bad idea to cross reference them if you're worried about specific language.
Good to know that the character sheet is another to cross reference if the specific language is important.
To be fair, the game's designers are very conservative when it comes to issuing errata precisely because they don't want players to feel like the rules are a moving target and their Player's Handbook will quickly become obsolete. I'm fairly sure the PH has had the most errata out of any book, and it's only had 1 errata per year in 2015, 2016, 2017 and 2018. Of those, only the first and the last added huge changes.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
Certainly understand the reasoning and I wasn't complaining at all. It's just something that people need to be aware of. DnDBeyond usually does a pretty good job of keeping the text up to date and they are revamping quite a bit if the system, which means that the parts that don't talk to each other might get sorted out soon.
As physical print documents continue to fade while digital copies multiply, there will probably come a point where this concern will kinda disappear. It would even be a good idea to keep the old text in an expandable window or other such, so that the reader can actually look at what was changed, and perhaps a blurb explaining why.
We're still a long way off from that, but that day will come.