Hi to everyone, I would have a doubt about the trance of the elves. Among all the various updates released I have not yet understood exactly if the elves just do a 4 hours trance to rest completely and even recover all the spell slots. Or if in addition to these 4 hours they need more time to complete a long rest. Thank you!
.... which makes no sense. The update to what a long rest is did not change what was happening, it just clarified some confusing wording. The old version essentially said "a long rest is 8 hours long, includes some amount of sleep, and no more than 2 hours of light activity." The new version essentially says "a long rest is 8 hours long, includes a default 6 hours of sleep, and the remaining time must be light activity." While most races require the default 6 hours of sleep, for warforged it was 6 hours of conscious stillness, for elves 4 hours of unconscious trance... but they all still needed to "camp" for 8 hours, no matter how long they spent sleeping.
Having elves now rest twice as fast, in addition to sleeping twice as fast doesn't really make sense, because long rests were never just about sleeping. And if an elf does leap out of bed after 4 hours and set off, just keep in mind that even with this ruling, while they've "finished a long rest" sufficient to get most class features back/recover hit dice/etc, if they're a wizard or cleric or druid or paladin they have not taken the time they need to change their list of prepared spells. So, unnecessarily difficult record keeping, blech.
It makes sense when you consider that Trance says: "After resting in this way, you gain the same benefit that a human does from 8 hours of sleep." A human that sleeps for 8 hours would gain the benefits of a long rest.
And taking a standard action is one way to make a melee attack, but that doesn't mean that every time one has taken a standard action that one has attacked.
I know I'm splitting hairs, I just feel like it was reckless to make long rests work differently for one race than every other race, especially when there's no indication to me that that was ever an intended consequence of the racial ability in the first place. It was working just fine as a way to ensure that your elf is able to take multiple watches, without breaking the entire long rest economy.
And taking a standard action is one way to make a melee attack, but that doesn't mean that every time one has taken a standard action that one has attacked.
I know I'm splitting hairs...
You're not splitting hairs. Your logic is simply incorrect. The standard action is the superset of the melee attack, not the other way around. The correct analog to what InquisitiveCoder stated is that a melee attack is one thing you can do when you take a standard action, and that there are plenty of other things you can do with that standard action besides attacking (all of which ultimately result in you having spent your action for the round).
Put another way, what is the boon of the trance if the duration of the long rest doesn’t also change? I would rule that the trance mechanic specific to elves (4 hours min sleep = 8 hours sleep for other races) overrides the general requirement for long rests (6 hours min sleep +2 hours additional sleep or light activity). And since the actual math is presented in the Trance mechanic, they meet the 8 hour requirement after 4 hours
Ok, I have read numerous what is and what doesn't constitute rest and what it does and doesn't give. So, specific example. Midnight everyone rests. at 8AM all (non-elf) fully replenished, spell slots / hits / item recharge (if appropriate) / half of levels of hit dice / whatever
at 4am elf wakes up, casts spell of numerous hours / 24hrs duration
goes back to sleep
wakes up at 8AM or 5 five past allowing for casting durations and ALL of those spells are back and then have the buff spells and or 'free' permanent ones active. In effect all of the spell slots you used at 4AM
eg telepathy / water breathing / Foresight
basically anything longer than 4 hrs to take into account the second set of long rest
The fact that it takes either 4 or 8 hours to complete a long rest is pretty much irrelevant because (as IamSposta mentioned), a character can only take ONE long rest in a 24 hour period. It doesn't matter whether they are humans or elves.
Does this mean that a party of elves could get up earlier and travel farther? Yes. Does it mean that elves can stand watch for four hours out of the 8 needed for other party members to take a long rest? Yes. Is it a big deal in any other way? Not that I have noticed. It does mean that an elf may be able to complete a long rest if the long rest has an extended interruption. Four hours may be just enough to complete it while the other characters in the party can't complete it but this depends on the precise circumstances.
Most of the time, elves are mixed with other races in a party. I've only very rarely if ever seen an all-elf party. However, even in that case, all that happens is that the elves have a day that is 4 hours longer to do stuff ... I've not noticed any other impact or abuse so I don't see the 4 vs 8 hours as an issue.
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Thank you!
On the latest Sage Advice, elf requires only 4 hours to finish a long rest.
http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/sage-advice/errata-november-2017
.... which makes no sense. The update to what a long rest is did not change what was happening, it just clarified some confusing wording. The old version essentially said "a long rest is 8 hours long, includes some amount of sleep, and no more than 2 hours of light activity." The new version essentially says "a long rest is 8 hours long, includes a default 6 hours of sleep, and the remaining time must be light activity." While most races require the default 6 hours of sleep, for warforged it was 6 hours of conscious stillness, for elves 4 hours of unconscious trance... but they all still needed to "camp" for 8 hours, no matter how long they spent sleeping.
Having elves now rest twice as fast, in addition to sleeping twice as fast doesn't really make sense, because long rests were never just about sleeping. And if an elf does leap out of bed after 4 hours and set off, just keep in mind that even with this ruling, while they've "finished a long rest" sufficient to get most class features back/recover hit dice/etc, if they're a wizard or cleric or druid or paladin they have not taken the time they need to change their list of prepared spells. So, unnecessarily difficult record keeping, blech.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
It makes sense when you consider that Trance says: "After resting in this way, you gain the same benefit that a human does from 8 hours of sleep." A human that sleeps for 8 hours would gain the benefits of a long rest.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
No, they wouldn't. A human that takes a long rest would get the benefit of a long rest. Sleep and long rest are not the same thing.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
And taking a standard action is one way to make a melee attack, but that doesn't mean that every time one has taken a standard action that one has attacked.
I know I'm splitting hairs, I just feel like it was reckless to make long rests work differently for one race than every other race, especially when there's no indication to me that that was ever an intended consequence of the racial ability in the first place. It was working just fine as a way to ensure that your elf is able to take multiple watches, without breaking the entire long rest economy.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
You're not splitting hairs. Your logic is simply incorrect. The standard action is the superset of the melee attack, not the other way around. The correct analog to what InquisitiveCoder stated is that a melee attack is one thing you can do when you take a standard action, and that there are plenty of other things you can do with that standard action besides attacking (all of which ultimately result in you having spent your action for the round).
Put another way, what is the boon of the trance if the duration of the long rest doesn’t also change? I would rule that the trance mechanic specific to elves (4 hours min sleep = 8 hours sleep for other races) overrides the general requirement for long rests (6 hours min sleep +2 hours additional sleep or light activity). And since the actual math is presented in the Trance mechanic, they meet the 8 hour requirement after 4 hours
Ok, I have read numerous what is and what doesn't constitute rest and what it does and doesn't give.
So, specific example.
Midnight everyone rests.
at 8AM all (non-elf) fully replenished, spell slots / hits / item recharge (if appropriate) / half of levels of hit dice / whatever
at 4am elf wakes up, casts spell of numerous hours / 24hrs duration
goes back to sleep
wakes up at 8AM or 5 five past allowing for casting durations and ALL of those spells are back and then have the buff spells and or 'free' permanent ones active. In effect all of the spell slots you used at 4AM
eg telepathy / water breathing / Foresight
basically anything longer than 4 hrs to take into account the second set of long rest
You can only take one long test in a 24 hour period.
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The fact that it takes either 4 or 8 hours to complete a long rest is pretty much irrelevant because (as IamSposta mentioned), a character can only take ONE long rest in a 24 hour period. It doesn't matter whether they are humans or elves.
Does this mean that a party of elves could get up earlier and travel farther? Yes. Does it mean that elves can stand watch for four hours out of the 8 needed for other party members to take a long rest? Yes. Is it a big deal in any other way? Not that I have noticed. It does mean that an elf may be able to complete a long rest if the long rest has an extended interruption. Four hours may be just enough to complete it while the other characters in the party can't complete it but this depends on the precise circumstances.
Most of the time, elves are mixed with other races in a party. I've only very rarely if ever seen an all-elf party. However, even in that case, all that happens is that the elves have a day that is 4 hours longer to do stuff ... I've not noticed any other impact or abuse so I don't see the 4 vs 8 hours as an issue.