Hi folks, just getting back in to D&D after a very long time. When I used to play, the DM had the Original books, and apparently there were rules for having "followers" or something. They weren't NPCs. So you had your main character, and then you had other characters, the number of which could be modified by your Charisma. These followers or whatever they were called, were a bit more limited, you didn't get 4d6 for attributes when rolling them up, you got 3d6, and other things like that.
You still roleplayed them, but sort of in the 3rd person. Sorry if I'm over explaining this, but I'm just wondering if there are rules for something like this in 5th? Maybe I missed it.
Basically I like the idea of each player controlling multiple characters, and how it opens up the combat tactics and such.
Spreads the payer's attention and more importantly CONNECTION out. If all you want is a combat simulator, go for it. But for most, the game is about roleplaying as much as anything else. When you play one character you think about them more and develop a real connection. Makes for a better game.
Slows the game down. Particularly if some have more side kicks than others. Even if the DM is role-playing them.
Division of Experience, treasure and/or equipment becomes an issue that has to be thought more about. Can cause issues, again, especially if certain players have more sidekicks than others.
Any one of theses issues by itself make me think twice about doing this.
You are talking about the difference between Henchmen, which were like your posse, and Hirelings, which were only going to stay for the job while you paid them. Henchmen would stick with you and if you treated them fairly they would stick around for something like a share (not necessarily a fair share) of the treasure. It might help to buy them a night of drinks in a tavern now and then too.
As above, you do need to be careful that you don't end up with a notebook of character sheets you have to leaf through every round of combat. Back in AD&D you generally waited for your turn and you "tried to hit the monster" and then your turn passed to the next player. With the number of actions you may take in a turn, multiple PCs under one player can be a problem, and it splits up the treasure and XP. But I still think there is a place in the game for Henchmen.
I'm sure BioWizard won't give me 'credit' for this (in her challenge) but Matt Colville, a popular D&D Youtuber, has written a book called Strongholds and Followers where he brings back some the old stuff with a fresh coat of paint and much more. Henchmen are developed in his book.
And ... wait for it ... he has an excellent series on Running the Game (on his youtube channel) which you will enjoy and learn from whether you expect to be a DM sooner or later.
Good luck. Enjoy the Game and Welcome back.
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Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
Well back in the day, we'd hand write a sheet with the entire party's combat stats on it as a courtesy to the DM. It was usually about 8-10 characters.
Well back in the day, we'd hand write a sheet with the entire party's combat stats on it as a courtesy to the DM. It was usually about 8-10 characters.
Back in the day, PCs only had one attack each. The action economy is much different now in 5e. It’s not uncommon for a party of five 5th level PCs to crank out eight or nine attacks, and it can go up from there.
Yeah, I remember fighters having that phase of 3 attacks every 2 rounds, on their way to 2/round. Damn, that was annoying. I know in 2e, and I think in 1e. But if you mean things like bonus actions and reactions, then certainly those didn’t exist in the early days.
Yeah, to be honest, if the party is designed for it, a party of five 5th level PCs in 5e can crank out up to 15 attacks/round, possibly more with reactions. And PCs are, like, 1,000% more survivable this edition too.
There's no rule (except in AL) that prevents you from running multiple henchmen/sidekicks, or even multiple full PCs. I just don't recommend it.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
It does take far too long for full-classed characters. I had used sidekicks with a 1 player party and could see them with up to 2 players. This way the player has a very simple character to go along with the main one. It filled gaps in the characters skills and actually gave me more freedom on what to do with adventures.
Once you get to 3 players though it would be a lot rougher. That is about the same as running for 5 players in combat. If you allow them extra characters with full classes, they will take a lot longer to decide what they are going to do in the turn and forget they can do things. It happens with players who only have 1 character to deal with.
And you could have very high attack rates in the 2nd edition games. My Swashbuckler kit fighter at 14th level had 9 attacks every 2 rounds. 5/2 from the fighter level, a +1 each round from high mastery proficiency and another +1 every round from the defender main gauche as a second weapon. And the number of attacks switched every other round. Was a bit of a pain to deal with, but not that bad. DM was often trying to convince me that I had attacked with 5 attacks on a different "odd or even" round and I got fewer attacks this round.
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Hi folks, just getting back in to D&D after a very long time. When I used to play, the DM had the Original books, and apparently there were rules for having "followers" or something. They weren't NPCs. So you had your main character, and then you had other characters, the number of which could be modified by your Charisma. These followers or whatever they were called, were a bit more limited, you didn't get 4d6 for attributes when rolling them up, you got 3d6, and other things like that.
You still roleplayed them, but sort of in the 3rd person. Sorry if I'm over explaining this, but I'm just wondering if there are rules for something like this in 5th? Maybe I missed it.
Basically I like the idea of each player controlling multiple characters, and how it opens up the combat tactics and such.
Thanks in advance!
In 5e they’re called sidekicks.
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In the essentials kit there’s rule for sidekicks. Not a full PC worth of a character but a nice bit of help.
How did sposta get in ahead of me? Argh.
Sposta is like a forum ninja.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
DX
-Kiai!!!
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There are a lot of issues:
Any one of theses issues by itself make me think twice about doing this.
You are talking about the difference between Henchmen, which were like your posse, and Hirelings, which were only going to stay for the job while you paid them. Henchmen would stick with you and if you treated them fairly they would stick around for something like a share (not necessarily a fair share) of the treasure. It might help to buy them a night of drinks in a tavern now and then too.
As above, you do need to be careful that you don't end up with a notebook of character sheets you have to leaf through every round of combat. Back in AD&D you generally waited for your turn and you "tried to hit the monster" and then your turn passed to the next player. With the number of actions you may take in a turn, multiple PCs under one player can be a problem, and it splits up the treasure and XP. But I still think there is a place in the game for Henchmen.
I'm sure BioWizard won't give me 'credit' for this (in her challenge) but Matt Colville, a popular D&D Youtuber, has written a book called Strongholds and Followers where he brings back some the old stuff with a fresh coat of paint and much more. Henchmen are developed in his book.
And ... wait for it ... he has an excellent series on Running the Game (on his youtube channel) which you will enjoy and learn from whether you expect to be a DM sooner or later.
Good luck. Enjoy the Game and Welcome back.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
Well back in the day, we'd hand write a sheet with the entire party's combat stats on it as a courtesy to the DM. It was usually about 8-10 characters.
Back in the day, PCs only had one attack each. The action economy is much different now in 5e. It’s not uncommon for a party of five 5th level PCs to crank out eight or nine attacks, and it can go up from there.
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Actually we had multiple attacks - the DM may have homebrewed that, or maybe it was a later expansion...
Yeah, I remember fighters having that phase of 3 attacks every 2 rounds, on their way to 2/round. Damn, that was annoying. I know in 2e, and I think in 1e.
But if you mean things like bonus actions and reactions, then certainly those didn’t exist in the early days.
Yeah, to be honest, if the party is designed for it, a party of five 5th level PCs in 5e can crank out up to 15 attacks/round, possibly more with reactions. And PCs are, like, 1,000% more survivable this edition too.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
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There's no rule (except in AL) that prevents you from running multiple henchmen/sidekicks, or even multiple full PCs. I just don't recommend it.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
It does take far too long for full-classed characters. I had used sidekicks with a 1 player party and could see them with up to 2 players. This way the player has a very simple character to go along with the main one. It filled gaps in the characters skills and actually gave me more freedom on what to do with adventures.
Once you get to 3 players though it would be a lot rougher. That is about the same as running for 5 players in combat. If you allow them extra characters with full classes, they will take a lot longer to decide what they are going to do in the turn and forget they can do things. It happens with players who only have 1 character to deal with.
And you could have very high attack rates in the 2nd edition games. My Swashbuckler kit fighter at 14th level had 9 attacks every 2 rounds. 5/2 from the fighter level, a +1 each round from high mastery proficiency and another +1 every round from the defender main gauche as a second weapon. And the number of attacks switched every other round. Was a bit of a pain to deal with, but not that bad. DM was often trying to convince me that I had attacked with 5 attacks on a different "odd or even" round and I got fewer attacks this round.