Yep, so if you have someone you kind of want to bring back, but it's no biggie, just keep their ear handy for when someone dies who you REALLY want to bring back.
I thought you couldn't twin resurrection spells? Aren't dead people considered objects and not creatures - so doesn't that prevent twinning?
Hmm... And yet the spell only works on creatures...
Corpses are really confusing with the rules. True res requires you to "touch a creature." After they die, they are not creatures anymore so what does the spell target? Obviously, we know what they mean, but because of some vague details here and there, we can't be sure how this interacts with things like twin.
Do you target the creature they used to be or the object that is their corpse?
I thought you couldn't twin resurrection spells? Aren't dead people considered objects and not creatures - so doesn't that prevent twinning?
Hmm... And yet the spell only works on creatures...
Corpses are really confusing with the rules. True res requires you to "touch a creature." After they die, they are not creatures anymore so what does the spell target? Obviously, we know what they mean, but because of some vague details here and there, we can't be sure how this interacts with things like twin.
Do you target the creature they used to be or the object that is their corpse?
Look up the various documentation wrt to a petrified creature. It is no longer treated as a creature, but an object. Dead people are the same way.
The Twinned Spell feature is explicit. It must be a creature: "When you cast a spell that doesn't have a range of self and is incapable of targeting more than one creature at the spell's current level, you can spend a number of sorcery points equal to the spell's level to target a second creature in range with the same spell (1 sorcery point if the spell is a cantrip). "
Look up the various documentation wrt to a petrified creature. It is no longer treated as a creature, but an object. Dead people are the same way.
The properties of the petrified don't actually say it becomes an object. What happens to a petrified creature is:
A petrified creature is transformed, along with any nonmagical object it is wearing or carrying, into a solid inanimate substance (usually stone). Its weight increases by a factor of ten, and it ceases aging.
The creature is incapacitated (see the condition), can't move or speak, and is unaware of its surroundings.
Attack rolls against the creature have advantage.
The creature automatically fails Strength and Dexterity saving throws.
The creature has resistance to all damage.
The creature is immune to poison and disease, although a poison or disease already in its system is suspended, not neutralized.
Because the condition doesn't state that the creature dies or becomes an object, it remains a creature, albeit one made from a solid, inanimate substances (which isn't that uncommon given the various golems and elementals that exist).
As such, it would still qualify as a creature for Twinned Spell.
However, even if a petrified creature was an object, twinned spell would still not be able to affect it as the metamagic says "is incapable of targeting more than one creature". Being able to target objects and creatures makes it capable of targeting more than one creature. This can be missed depending on where you place the emphasis when reading the ability; "incapable of targeting more than one creature" would imply that it must only target a single creature, objects are fair game. However, if you read it as was the intent; "incapable of targeting more than one creature" then anything that can affect objects is out too.
I thought you couldn't twin resurrection spells? Aren't dead people considered objects and not creatures - so doesn't that prevent twinning?
Hmm... And yet the spell only works on creatures...
Corpses are really confusing with the rules. True res requires you to "touch a creature." After they die, they are not creatures anymore so what does the spell target? Obviously, we know what they mean, but because of some vague details here and there, we can't be sure how this interacts with things like twin.
Do you target the creature they used to be or the object that is their corpse?
Look up the various documentation wrt to a petrified creature. It is no longer treated as a creature, but an object. Dead people are the same way.
The Twinned Spell feature is explicit. It must be a creature: "When you cast a spell that doesn't have a range of self and is incapable of targeting more than one creature at the spell's current level, you can spend a number of sorcery points equal to the spell's level to target a second creature in range with the same spell (1 sorcery point if the spell is a cantrip). "
To which I refer you back to my entire comment you quoted about how true res targets a creature and never once refers to a corpse in it's effect, only "the creature" 6 times. And particularly my closing question on if the spell is actually targeting the body at all.
I completely agree that corpses are objects and said as much, and I know twin only works on creatures. That is why I only talked about what the spell says and not the 2 tangential things that have nothing to do with what I said that you countered with.
However, even if a petrified creature was an object, twinned spell would still not be able to affect it as the metamagic says "is incapable of targeting more than one creature". Being able to target objects and creatures makes it capable of targeting more than one creature.
However, even if a petrified creature was an object, twinned spell would still not be able to affect it as the metamagic says "is incapable of targeting more than one creature". Being able to target objects and creatures makes it capable of targeting more than one creature.
I don't follow this logic.
Per sage advice compendium, the intent of Twinned Spell is that the original spell must only be able to target one creature. Not one creature and any objects not-worn or carried, not multiple creatures, not multiple objects, not even one object. Just one creature, that's it. It's laid out here in the Sage Advice Compendium. This means that by RAI, you can't twin Fire Bolt because
You hurl a mote of fire at a creature or object within range
Firebolt targets one creature or object, not one creature.
I thought you couldn't twin resurrection spells? Aren't dead people considered objects and not creatures - so doesn't that prevent twinning?
Hmm... And yet the spell only works on creatures...
Corpses are really confusing with the rules. True res requires you to "touch a creature." After they die, they are not creatures anymore so what does the spell target? Obviously, we know what they mean, but because of some vague details here and there, we can't be sure how this interacts with things like twin.
Do you target the creature they used to be or the object that is their corpse?
Look up the various documentation wrt to a petrified creature. It is no longer treated as a creature, but an object. Dead people are the same way.
The Twinned Spell feature is explicit. It must be a creature: "When you cast a spell that doesn't have a range of self and is incapable of targeting more than one creature at the spell's current level, you can spend a number of sorcery points equal to the spell's level to target a second creature in range with the same spell (1 sorcery point if the spell is a cantrip). "
To which I refer you back to my entire comment you quoted about how true res targets a creature and never once refers to a corpse in it's effect, only "the creature" 6 times. And particularly my closing question on if the spell is actually targeting the body at all.
I completely agree that corpses are objects and said as much, and I know twin only works on creatures. That is why I only talked about what the spell says and not the 2 tangential things that have nothing to do with what I said that you countered with.
Yeah, the spell refers to the target as a "creature", but everything I have read over the years states that a dead body is no longer a creature. I really can't argue with your logic by the RAW of the spell. I will simply suggest "poor writing wrt to this spell" and refer you to a post by JC on May 9th, 2015. I don't think we are allowed to embed links to Sage Advice here, so will simply quote it: "A non-undead corpse isn't considered a creature. It's effectively an object."
Well True Resurrection is a strange example because you don't even need to target anything physical. It allows you to just say the name of the creature and poof - creature resurrected. You effectively target their soul directly - and what is a soul? Is it an object? A creature?
I imagine that when it says "you target a creature that has been dead for" is basically code for "you target their object dead body" (or a piece of it) when not doing the above.
I don't think we are allowed to embed links to Sage Advice here, so will simply quote it: "A non-undead corpse isn't considered a creature. It's effectively an object."
Linking to Sage Advice (distinct from Sage Advice Compendium) is allowed, as is linking to any appropriate and relevant external source. However, you don't need to go to JC tweets to establish that dead creatures are objects, it's actually covered in the Improvised Weapon Rules
I do agree that true resurrection seems to fall across the normal boundaries of creatures and objects, but the spell description explicitly says you have to touch a creature. That feels like it makes it acceptable for twinning.
Per sage advice compendium, the intent of Twinned Spell is that the original spell must only be able to target one creature. Not one creature and any objects not-worn or carried, not multiple creatures, not multiple objects, not even one object. Just one creature, that's it. It's laid out here in the Sage Advice Compendium. This means that by RAI, you can't twin Fire Bolt
I do agree that true resurrection seems to fall across the normal boundaries of creatures and objects, but the spell description explicitly says you have to touch a creature. That feels like it makes it acceptable for twinning.
Well it says "touch a creature that has been dead for..." which is synonymous with "touch their dead body" which is an object.
Does Twinned spell require you to provide costly components for both targets if they are consumed by the spell?
For example, could a Divine Soul Sorcerer cast True Resurrection on two targets for the price of one?
It does not. It’s literally the “buy one, get one free” of spellcasting
What they said. 👆 (That’s why it has so many other restrictions.)
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Yeah, twin spell just adds a second target, it doesn't cast a second spell. So you just pay the cost once and target 2 creatures.
Yep, so if you have someone you kind of want to bring back, but it's no biggie, just keep their ear handy for when someone dies who you REALLY want to bring back.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
I thought you couldn't twin resurrection spells? Aren't dead people considered objects and not creatures - so doesn't that prevent twinning?
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
Bingo. The general intent of the question and answer is correct. The precise example is not.
Hmm... And yet the spell only works on creatures...
Corpses are really confusing with the rules. True res requires you to "touch a creature." After they die, they are not creatures anymore so what does the spell target? Obviously, we know what they mean, but because of some vague details here and there, we can't be sure how this interacts with things like twin.
Do you target the creature they used to be or the object that is their corpse?
Look up the various documentation wrt to a petrified creature. It is no longer treated as a creature, but an object. Dead people are the same way.
The Twinned Spell feature is explicit. It must be a creature: "When you cast a spell that doesn't have a range of self and is incapable of targeting more than one creature at the spell's current level, you can spend a number of sorcery points equal to the spell's level to target a second creature in range with the same spell (1 sorcery point if the spell is a cantrip). "
The properties of the petrified don't actually say it becomes an object. What happens to a petrified creature is:
Because the condition doesn't state that the creature dies or becomes an object, it remains a creature, albeit one made from a solid, inanimate substances (which isn't that uncommon given the various golems and elementals that exist).
As such, it would still qualify as a creature for Twinned Spell.
However, even if a petrified creature was an object, twinned spell would still not be able to affect it as the metamagic says "is incapable of targeting more than one creature". Being able to target objects and creatures makes it capable of targeting more than one creature. This can be missed depending on where you place the emphasis when reading the ability; "incapable of targeting more than one creature" would imply that it must only target a single creature, objects are fair game. However, if you read it as was the intent; "incapable of targeting more than one creature" then anything that can affect objects is out too.
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To which I refer you back to my entire comment you quoted about how true res targets a creature and never once refers to a corpse in it's effect, only "the creature" 6 times. And particularly my closing question on if the spell is actually targeting the body at all.
I completely agree that corpses are objects and said as much, and I know twin only works on creatures. That is why I only talked about what the spell says and not the 2 tangential things that have nothing to do with what I said that you countered with.
I don't follow this logic.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
I hope that isn't true because if a corpse is not a creature, then true resurrection cannot be twinned. In fact, it cannot even be cast at all.
"You touch a creature that has been dead for no longer than 200 years and that died for any reason except old age."
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Per sage advice compendium, the intent of Twinned Spell is that the original spell must only be able to target one creature. Not one creature and any objects not-worn or carried, not multiple creatures, not multiple objects, not even one object. Just one creature, that's it. It's laid out here in the Sage Advice Compendium. This means that by RAI, you can't twin Fire Bolt because
Firebolt targets one creature or object, not one creature.
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
Yeah, the spell refers to the target as a "creature", but everything I have read over the years states that a dead body is no longer a creature. I really can't argue with your logic by the RAW of the spell. I will simply suggest "poor writing wrt to this spell" and refer you to a post by JC on May 9th, 2015. I don't think we are allowed to embed links to Sage Advice here, so will simply quote it: "A non-undead corpse isn't considered a creature. It's effectively an object."
Well True Resurrection is a strange example because you don't even need to target anything physical. It allows you to just say the name of the creature and poof - creature resurrected. You effectively target their soul directly - and what is a soul? Is it an object? A creature?
I imagine that when it says "you target a creature that has been dead for" is basically code for "you target their object dead body" (or a piece of it) when not doing the above.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
Linking to Sage Advice (distinct from Sage Advice Compendium) is allowed, as is linking to any appropriate and relevant external source. However, you don't need to go to JC tweets to establish that dead creatures are objects, it's actually covered in the Improvised Weapon Rules
Bit of an odd place to find the answer to that question, but there it is. Dead creatures are objects.
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
I do agree that true resurrection seems to fall across the normal boundaries of creatures and objects, but the spell description explicitly says you have to touch a creature. That feels like it makes it acceptable for twinning.
Fair enough. I went down this road when the SAC first came out, and it did not go over well I guess it just took folks a little while to get comfortable with the clarification.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
I believe the clarification/intent explanation is a newer addition.
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
Well it says "touch a creature that has been dead for..." which is synonymous with "touch their dead body" which is an object.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).