I've done about 3 short campaigns in my DM experience, but I've always done it almost completely custom, mostly ignoring the books. This time, I'm doing a crusade-based campaign mostly following 5E rules. I'm having trouble grasping the balancing established in this version. 20 AC seems shockingly easy to achieve even at level 1. This means a hit roll has a 5% chance to hit them without modifiers, as those are the odds of hitting a nat 20. I bring this up as a campaign subject of mine started with 16 AC chain mail, +2 dex, and a 2 AC shield. I'm not sure how to hit him. Am I missing a scaling factor due to my unique campaign experiences? Is there a different way to determine how hits work?
A good armor and other defensive measures go a long way to establish survivability at low levels, but it caps off quickly enough. There aren't many ways to increase your Armor Class too much, so it tends to even itself out. I suppose you could go wild with magic items (although with most of those things not stacking, it's still an uphill battle), but those are generally scarcer, much more balanced, and (at least the ones that would cause problems) need attunement, so you're capped at three.
All in all, I wouldn't worry too much.
However, I need to note two things:
1. Even the standard goblin has a +4 on its attack. The common cat has +0 to attack (so, hitting someone at AC 20 isn't 5% unless your cavaliers are fighting common housecats or rats of the non-giant variety).
2. Chain mail, being heavy armor, does not allow for any Dexterity modifier to its AC. Light armors allow all your Dexterity modifier, medium armors cap it at +2, heavy armors don't give any of it.
I've done about 3 short campaigns in my DM experience, but I've always done it almost completely custom, mostly ignoring the books. This time, I'm doing a crusade-based campaign mostly following 5E rules. I'm having trouble grasping the balancing established in this version. 20 AC seems shockingly easy to achieve even at level 1.
How? Plate armor costs 1,500 gold. No one can afford that at level 1. Heavy Armor users will have 18 AC (chain mail + shield). The highest a Barbarian can start with using the standard array for ability scores is again 18 (10 + 3 DEX + 3 CON + shield), and they're only going to have +1 STR if they do that.
This means a hit roll has a 5% chance to hit them without modifiers, as those are the odds of hitting a nat 20. I bring this up as a campaign subject of mine started with 16 AC chain mail, +2 dex, and a 2 AC shield. I'm not sure how to hit him. Am I missing a scaling factor due to my unique campaign experiences? Is there a different way to determine how hits work?
We've already established 18 is the highest permanent AC a character can have at level 1. The lowest proficiency bonus a creature can have is +2, and it's unusual for monsters to not be proficient with at least one attack. Most will have +1 or +2 from their ability scores on top of that. A monster with a +4 attack bonus has a 35% chance of hitting an 18 AC character. Many monsters will have a trait or action that improves the situation further. Even CR 1/2 creatures can have multiattack (e.g. thugs). Wolves can knock prone and gain advantage in groups. Goblins can hide behind cover as a bonus action to gain advantage on ranged attacks.
But I think you're missing the point: how is the tank going to force any of these creatures to attack him and not someone easier to hit? Grappling requires a free hand and foregoing an attack. If they put their weapon away, they're left with weak unarmed strikes for damage. If they put their shield away, they can attack with their weapon, but their AC decreases. And this'll only work for one monster, unless the tank has both hands free and suffers both disadvantages.
The party can try to exploit a choke point, but monsters can still shoot past the tank with ranged weapons, drag the tank out of the way by grappling, or get past them by tumbling or overrunning them (see the DMG for those optional rules.)
Review the other comments- how do you achieve 20 AC at level 1 typically?
But putting it aside, when optimizing a defender it's important to understand that they have to have a way of forcing enemies to not just ignore them and attack better targets for their survivability to matter. A fighter who hasn't been touched but who has lost their entire party has already lost- the intuitive way to do that is damage, but that might require the expenditure of resources or opportunity cost, wielding a greatsword instead of a shield, losing the two AC, spending spell slots for smites as a paladin, recklessly attacking and raging as a Barbarian. It also does nothing for your saves, which you migth balance your stats better to try and patch.
I have a level 6 paladin who has 20AC (plate +1 and the defence fighting style) If they had a shield then that would be AC22, and yes, that is a lot. however not only do most things that we are fighting have 2 attacks at this point, but they also have a large to hit bonus.
Plus remember there are other way to fight things; you can ignore the tanks and go for squishier characters instead of you want, plus there are things like magic users. The above paladin may be hard to hit with a sword, but throw a fireball at her and the 0 dex mod doesn't help much to avoid it.
As some other people have pointed out; your guy doesn't have 20AC, they have 18. Chainmail gives them 16AC and the Shield gives them +2 to total 18AC. They DO NOT add their dec to heavy armour.
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He who stumbles around in darkness with a stick is blind,
That is an extremely generous GM. Given the design of bounded accuracy, magical armour usually comes in after level 10.
In my OotA game, my cleric didn't get *non-magical* plate until level 5. 1,500 gold is a lot of money to save up, espeically for one item that really only helps one character.
Especially for a group of ex-slaves grovelling through the Underdark... :-)
Giving up your 2nd hand to a shield means less offense (can't TWF/2HF/bow/xbow effectively). Spending Feats to give more AC means not taking an offensive ASI/Feat.
Tanks are tanks: that's what they do. Parties SHOULD have tanks that are difficult to bring down in melee combat. They also usually have horrible Dex/Int/Wis saves as they shoveled all their stats into Str/Con. Often their skills will be lacking as well. If they're a Paladin, they're probably going to have it even worse as they need a good Cha. A mobile ranged DPS or caster is their downfall usually.
Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses. If you try to even those out with a Jack-of-all-Trades build, you'll be mediocre at anything you try to do.
Edit: As others pointed out, you don't get to include your Dex modifier to AC if you're wearing Heavy Armor. Even if its Mithril.
The problem I am seeing is the assumption that all enemies are attacking AC... Your party has casters, right? So if you have an enemy caster with "Toll the Dead" that armor is not going to help them. Even if you have a 6 melee, 3 archers, 1 "Mage" and 1 Healer using a few crowed control spells and some tactics like ma
I've done about 3 short campaigns in my DM experience, but I've always done it almost completely custom, mostly ignoring the books. This time, I'm doing a crusade-based campaign mostly following 5E rules. I'm having trouble grasping the balancing established in this version. 20 AC seems shockingly easy to achieve even at level 1.
How? Plate armor costs 1,500 gold. No one can afford that at level 1. Heavy Armor users will have 18 AC (chain mail + shield). The highest a Barbarian can start with using the standard array for ability scores is again 18 (10 + 3 DEX + 3 CON + shield), and they're only going to have +1 STR if they do that.
This means a hit roll has a 5% chance to hit them without modifiers, as those are the odds of hitting a nat 20. I bring this up as a campaign subject of mine started with 16 AC chain mail, +2 dex, and a 2 AC shield. I'm not sure how to hit him. Am I missing a scaling factor due to my unique campaign experiences? Is there a different way to determine how hits work?
We've already established 18 is the highest permanent AC a character can have at level 1. The lowest proficiency bonus a creature can have is +2, and it's unusual for monsters to not be proficient with at least one attack. Most will have +1 or +2 from their ability scores on top of that. A monster with a +4 attack bonus has a 35% chance of hitting an 18 AC character. Many monsters will have a trait or action that improves the situation further. Even CR 1/2 creatures can have multiattack (e.g. thugs). Wolves can knock prone and gain advantage in groups. Goblins can hide behind cover as a bonus action to gain advantage on ranged attacks.
But I think you're missing the point: how is the tank going to force any of these creatures to attack him and not someone easier to hit? Grappling requires a free hand and foregoing an attack. If they put their weapon away, they're left with weak unarmed strikes for damage. If they put their shield away, they can attack with their weapon, but their AC decreases. And this'll only work for one monster, unless the tank has both hands free and suffers both disadvantages.
The party can try to exploit a choke point, but monsters can still shoot past the tank with ranged weapons, drag the tank out of the way by grappling, or get past them by tumbling or overrunning them (see the DMG for those optional rules.)
AC18 is NOT the max for a level 1
Static max AC at level 1
Human Variant Fighter ---Scale Mail - 14(Max2) ---Human Variant Feat: Medium Armor Master - 14(Max3) ---Defensive Fighting style (Armor AC +1) - 15(Max3) ---16 Dex (to fill max dex bonus) - 18 ---Shield (+2 AC) - 20 Total AC 20
Human Variant Forge Cleric ---Human Variant Feat: Medium Armor Master - Scale Mail AC14(Max3) ---16 Dex (AC17) ---Shield +2 (AC19) ---Blessing of the Forge +1 (AC20) Total AC 20
*Warforged Race Integrated Protection with any class that has heavy armor and shield proficiency can have 20 BUT that is not a final release. When Eberron is finally released, if they are the same in the final version the Forged Doman Cleric can add the AC to the shield for AC21 at level 1. I don't believe defensive fighting style will apply since Warforged don't wear armor.
Single fight Max AC at level 1 (Shield of faith is a 10min, or 100 round duration, however it is consentraion)
Human Variant Forge Cleric ---Human Variant Feat: Medium Armor Master - Scale Mail AC14(Max3) ---16 Dex (AC17) ---Shield +2 (AC19) ---Blessing of the Forge +1 (AC20) ---Shield of Faith spell +2 Total AC 22
Single Combat round Max AC
Human Variant Forge Cleric ---Chain mail AC16 ---Shield +2 (AC18) ---Blessing of the Forge +1 (AC19) ---Shield of Faith spell +2 (concentration, AC21) ---Magic initiate: Sorcerer or Wizard for Shield +5 Total AC 26
However, its like you said. Even an AC21 vs low level NPCs with +2 to hit, will hit on roll of 19-20. So your looking at a minimum of 10%. If every character is a tank...where are the enemy casters? Cantrips Toll the Dead, Vicious Mockery, Sacred Flame, Sword Burst, thunderclap, word of radiance and Frostbite combine with level 1 spells Dissonant Whispers, Bane, Command, Sanctuary, Tasha's Hideous Laughter. Burning Hands, Color spray, Magic Missile, entangle, Faerie Fire, Grease, Hail of Thorns(Archers), and bless for enemy Allies to increase chance of hitting party member by 5-20%.
If your looking at a "crusade-based" setting I would point out Christian or Muslim crusade they were both meet with crusaders of the other side. So its also safe to expect that after few victories targeting a specific group... that group is likely to countered with equivalent "crusader" with similar armor and anti-armor casters... That is typical escalation. So while it may mean longer fights their are plenty of options in D&D to counter high AC.
The lack of inflection in text means that a reader of any post adds their own inflection as they "verbalize" it in their head. I write long and repetitive in an effort to be clear and avoid my intent from being skewed or inverted. I am also bad at examples. It is common for people to skim my posts pull out the idea they think I mean or want to argue against or focus on my bad example instead of the point I am actually trying to make. I apologies for the confusion my failure to be clear and concise creates.
I've done about 3 short campaigns in my DM experience, but I've always done it almost completely custom, mostly ignoring the books. This time, I'm doing a crusade-based campaign mostly following 5E rules. I'm having trouble grasping the balancing established in this version. 20 AC seems shockingly easy to achieve even at level 1. This means a hit roll has a 5% chance to hit them without modifiers, as those are the odds of hitting a nat 20. I bring this up as a campaign subject of mine started with 16 AC chain mail, +2 dex, and a 2 AC shield. I'm not sure how to hit him. Am I missing a scaling factor due to my unique campaign experiences? Is there a different way to determine how hits work?
A good armor and other defensive measures go a long way to establish survivability at low levels, but it caps off quickly enough. There aren't many ways to increase your Armor Class too much, so it tends to even itself out. I suppose you could go wild with magic items (although with most of those things not stacking, it's still an uphill battle), but those are generally scarcer, much more balanced, and (at least the ones that would cause problems) need attunement, so you're capped at three.
All in all, I wouldn't worry too much.
However, I need to note two things:
1. Even the standard goblin has a +4 on its attack. The common cat has +0 to attack (so, hitting someone at AC 20 isn't 5% unless your cavaliers are fighting common housecats or rats of the non-giant variety).
2. Chain mail, being heavy armor, does not allow for any Dexterity modifier to its AC. Light armors allow all your Dexterity modifier, medium armors cap it at +2, heavy armors don't give any of it.
How? Plate armor costs 1,500 gold. No one can afford that at level 1. Heavy Armor users will have 18 AC (chain mail + shield). The highest a Barbarian can start with using the standard array for ability scores is again 18 (10 + 3 DEX + 3 CON + shield), and they're only going to have +1 STR if they do that.
We've already established 18 is the highest permanent AC a character can have at level 1. The lowest proficiency bonus a creature can have is +2, and it's unusual for monsters to not be proficient with at least one attack. Most will have +1 or +2 from their ability scores on top of that. A monster with a +4 attack bonus has a 35% chance of hitting an 18 AC character. Many monsters will have a trait or action that improves the situation further. Even CR 1/2 creatures can have multiattack (e.g. thugs). Wolves can knock prone and gain advantage in groups. Goblins can hide behind cover as a bonus action to gain advantage on ranged attacks.
But I think you're missing the point: how is the tank going to force any of these creatures to attack him and not someone easier to hit? Grappling requires a free hand and foregoing an attack. If they put their weapon away, they're left with weak unarmed strikes for damage. If they put their shield away, they can attack with their weapon, but their AC decreases. And this'll only work for one monster, unless the tank has both hands free and suffers both disadvantages.
The party can try to exploit a choke point, but monsters can still shoot past the tank with ranged weapons, drag the tank out of the way by grappling, or get past them by tumbling or overrunning them (see the DMG for those optional rules.)
The Forum Infestation (TM)
Review the other comments- how do you achieve 20 AC at level 1 typically?
But putting it aside, when optimizing a defender it's important to understand that they have to have a way of forcing enemies to not just ignore them and attack better targets for their survivability to matter. A fighter who hasn't been touched but who has lost their entire party has already lost- the intuitive way to do that is damage, but that might require the expenditure of resources or opportunity cost, wielding a greatsword instead of a shield, losing the two AC, spending spell slots for smites as a paladin, recklessly attacking and raging as a Barbarian. It also does nothing for your saves, which you migth balance your stats better to try and patch.
I have a level 6 paladin who has 20AC (plate +1 and the defence fighting style) If they had a shield then that would be AC22, and yes, that is a lot. however not only do most things that we are fighting have 2 attacks at this point, but they also have a large to hit bonus.
Plus remember there are other way to fight things; you can ignore the tanks and go for squishier characters instead of you want, plus there are things like magic users. The above paladin may be hard to hit with a sword, but throw a fireball at her and the 0 dex mod doesn't help much to avoid it.
As some other people have pointed out; your guy doesn't have 20AC, they have 18. Chainmail gives them 16AC and the Shield gives them +2 to total 18AC. They DO NOT add their dec to heavy armour.
He who stumbles around in darkness with a stick is blind,
He who sticks out in darkness is... luminescent
- Brother Silence (who is not an elf)
Giving up your 2nd hand to a shield means less offense (can't TWF/2HF/bow/xbow effectively). Spending Feats to give more AC means not taking an offensive ASI/Feat.
Tanks are tanks: that's what they do. Parties SHOULD have tanks that are difficult to bring down in melee combat. They also usually have horrible Dex/Int/Wis saves as they shoveled all their stats into Str/Con. Often their skills will be lacking as well. If they're a Paladin, they're probably going to have it even worse as they need a good Cha. A mobile ranged DPS or caster is their downfall usually.
Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses. If you try to even those out with a Jack-of-all-Trades build, you'll be mediocre at anything you try to do.
Edit: As others pointed out, you don't get to include your Dex modifier to AC if you're wearing Heavy Armor. Even if its Mithril.
The problem I am seeing is the assumption that all enemies are attacking AC... Your party has casters, right? So if you have an enemy caster with "Toll the Dead" that armor is not going to help them. Even if you have a 6 melee, 3 archers, 1 "Mage" and 1 Healer using a few crowed control spells and some tactics like ma
AC18 is NOT the max for a level 1
---Scale Mail - 14(Max2)
---Human Variant Feat: Medium Armor Master - 14(Max3)
---Defensive Fighting style (Armor AC +1) - 15(Max3)
---16 Dex (to fill max dex bonus) - 18
---Shield (+2 AC) - 20
Total AC 20
---Human Variant Feat: Medium Armor Master - Scale Mail AC14(Max3)
---16 Dex (AC17)
---Shield +2 (AC19)
---Blessing of the Forge +1 (AC20)
Total AC 20
---Human Variant Feat: Medium Armor Master - Scale Mail AC14(Max3)
---16 Dex (AC17)
---Shield +2 (AC19)
---Blessing of the Forge +1 (AC20)
---Shield of Faith spell +2
Total AC 22
---Chain mail AC16
---Shield +2 (AC18)
---Blessing of the Forge +1 (AC19)
---Shield of Faith spell +2 (concentration, AC21)
---Magic initiate: Sorcerer or Wizard for Shield +5
Total AC 26
The lack of inflection in text means that a reader of any post adds their own inflection as they "verbalize" it in their head. I write long and repetitive in an effort to be clear and avoid my intent from being skewed or inverted. I am also bad at examples. It is common for people to skim my posts pull out the idea they think I mean or want to argue against or focus on my bad example instead of the point I am actually trying to make. I apologies for the confusion my failure to be clear and concise creates.
Aim for his saves