For anyone playing a sorcerer - get the new book :) not only does it give you advantage on all skills, initiative and dispel/counterspell checks for a measly 1 sorcery point, but an item in the book grants regular short range teleport outside the action economy (as an example amongst others). Pretty dope!
I do like the new features and metamagics, I'm just a little miffed that only the new subclasses got bonus spells, as I'm not likely to use the new subclasses. I think they're neat additions, I just don't have enough opportunities to justify playing another sorc.
Outside of A.L., it easy to just make a general houseful for sorcerer subclasses. The fun part of the new spell lists is that they're swappable with just about any spell from two of the wizard/sorcerer/warlock schools. Aberrant Mind can swap for just about any Enchantment or Illusion spell, not just the listed 10.
House Rule - gain 2 additional spells known at 1, 3, 5, 7, 9. These must be drawn from X list.
I've had a day to read through Tasha's and digest everything that has to do with playing my favorite class and here are my thoughts.
I'd say Tasha's is a step in the right direction for sorcerers. It gives DMs who might be hesitant to house rule origin spells for the other subclasses a template (and permission) to draw from. I do like that the origin spells can be swapped out when you level up. I would have preferred the UA spell versatility but you can't have everything and I will just continue to allow it at my table.
I like the new subclasses and can see how they can be changed to fit any world or backstory. In fact I have several ideas for Clockwork :-)
I do like the magic items that only a sorcerer can attune too because they give another a boost to to sorcerers that other classes don't get. The Bloodwell Vial will be particularly helpful as you get 5 sorcery points back whenever you roll Hit Dice to recover Hit Points as well as granting a bonus to attack and saving throws. The expanded spell list gives sorcerers some spells they should have had to begin with such as Flame Sphere and Fire Shield in addition to some pretty cool new options.
Not sure why you would give a bunch of melee spells to a glass canon (excepting Storm and maybe Shadow which will help them). However after thinking about it, I realized that with DM permission your sorcerer could get a magical Barrier Tattoo to boost their AC. That also frees you to dump Shield and Mage Armor.
Being able to change your Metamagic at Level 4 is nice. I wasn't happy with the Metamagic Adept feat being given to everyone (I mean its what makes us special, right?) but then I decided it could be useful since it gives sorcerers access to two additional Metamagics and two extra sorcery points.
As someone who enjoys playing sorcerers without multi classing (I tend to create characters that would never under any circumstances take a pact with an otherworldly being) I appreciate the ability to work with the DM to build something that won't die at Level 1.
I do think a lot of what is in Tasha's is preparation for the new source books coming out next year. While we don't yet know if Spelljammer and its ilk will be on the roster, it seems like it. However, I can see how all of these things can be added to help sorcerers no matter what setting they are in.
At first I thought you could spend SP for psionics the same way you'd pay for spell slots (at a premium), but it's actually cheaper than that... and since they're automatically subtle that way, they can't be countered. It's just awesome.
I don't disagree that Tasha's is a step in the right direction for sorcs. While generally, I am opposed to powercreep, I generally feel that sorcerers are slightly underpowered. So, a little powercreep just brings them more in line with other classes.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Anyone know why aberrant mind got shafted so hard? The improved spell casting feature at 6 is nice but all the other abilities are situational. It feels like the thief subclass where there are okay situational things throughout and then a really good capstone ability. Except the capstone for aberrant mind is really underwhelming. It’s a marginally improved thunder step. That does not live up to its name. By comparison the clock work subclass is much stronger.
I don't think that aberrant mind got shafted at all. Psionic spells is what it (sorcerer) needs and extremely flavorful in the case of the aberrant mind. Telepathic speech is niche, but still useful and potentially a lot of fun. Psionic sorcery is amazing. Psychic defenses is half ribbon, and half niche. Meh, but it's a second level 6 ability. it probably /shouldn't/ be great. Revelation in flesh is extremely useful. Warping implosion is fantastic.
Sorry, but I don't see shafted in any of it's abilities. They're all good.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
I don't know what the original Aberrant Soul was like, but each of these abilities seem pretty strong to me before we talk about more spells.
Telepathy up to 5 miles is great, especially when coordinating with the group scout. Lots of people talk about how Message and Detect Thoughts are great spells. This adds to that kind of playstyle.
At 6, Psychic Defenses effectively negates most mind control powers while also giving you an upgraded Subtle Spell metamagic for free.
Level 14 gives you flight, as a bonus action, at the cost of 1 Point or a level 1 spell slot - dragon sorcerer gets flight without cost, but doesn't have the potential for See Invisible, squeezing through cracks, or swimming. A fair trade off, imho, especially at this level.
Level 18 is a bit strange, and doesn't really fit with the rest of the abilities. But then I find that most of the level 18 sorcerer subclass features to be oddly disappointing. So... par for the course?
All in all, I find this to be a rather social heavy but extremely potent subclass. If the original was stronger... I hesitate to think how much stronger.
@Mephista: I couldn't agree more. I feel like the stuff for Level 6 is under-valued because the later stuff is so mild... but flight for 10mn is nothing to sneeze at. Heck, Aasimar get it for 1mn. This seems to be the first hardcover book where they aren't peeing themselves over the concept of flight as anything other than a spell or magic item, and I love it.
As for their capstone abilities, yeah, they tend to be underwhelming, but I imagine that's because most anything else can be easilly broken and they'd rather be cautious.
I don't know what the original Aberrant Soul was like, but each of these abilities seem pretty strong to me before we talk about more spells.
Telepathy up to 5 miles is great, especially when coordinating with the group scout. Lots of people talk about how Message and Detect Thoughts are great spells. This adds to that kind of playstyle.
At 6, Psychic Defenses effectively negates most mind control powers while also giving you an upgraded Subtle Spell metamagic for free.
Level 14 gives you flight, as a bonus action, at the cost of 1 Point or a level 1 spell slot - dragon sorcerer gets flight without cost, but doesn't have the potential for See Invisible, squeezing through cracks, or swimming. A fair trade off, imho, especially at this level.
Level 18 is a bit strange, and doesn't really fit with the rest of the abilities. But then I find that most of the level 18 sorcerer subclass features to be oddly disappointing. So... par for the course?
All in all, I find this to be a rather social heavy but extremely potent subclass. If the original was stronger... I hesitate to think how much stronger.
It's stronger than the original was, psionic sorcery is much improved. all it loses is warped being (free mage armor) which I loved, but is absolutely a good trade for what you get in psionic sorcery.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
At first I thought you could spend SP for psionics the same way you'd pay for spell slots (at a premium), but it's actually cheaper than that... and since they're automatically subtle that way, they can't be countered. It's just awesome.
I H.A.T.E. how this book handles Psionics. I hate everything about the book and think Crawford should have to go door to door offering apologies and handing out replacement versions that errata 90% of the book, and when he’s done he should be fired and blacklisted from game design forever. As far as I’m concerned, this is the book of hat ruined 5e.
Its a bit hard to follow your hard stance on psionics IamSposta... its not like they made aberrant mind the ony psionic option - what they did was basically to define psionics as a form of magic, so any sorcerer/wizard could say their casting comes from the mind. Personally this makes a lot more sense to me. For the same reason I never understood the warlock, except as an outlet to make new game mechanics.
Perhaps I can offer some enlightenment on his position. He and I clashed A LOT when they started talking psionics, and I've previously in this thread avoided commenting on his posts, specifically because I pretty much got exactly what I wanted, and he got precisely what he argued vehemently against. I want to /try/ and be a good sport about "winning" this round and not rub his nose in while he's upset, because he's a good guy who's got just as "right" of an opinion as I do.
The sum of his position is basically, that psionics is /not/ magic and it should not be treated as though it's just magic. It should have a completely unique mechanic to represent it, not be a subset of spells bolted onto the sorcerer (which should have been a psion in the first place before metamagic was stolen to make sorcerers unique from wizards when flexible casting was stolen from sorcerers). The crux of his heartburn on this is that it's a huge slap in the face to psion fans that they do not get unique mechanics to represent what in their opinion is completely separate from "weave magic" for lack of a better term. The fact that the Aberrant mind exists, with the terminolgy it has, with things being called "psionic sorcery" slams a final nail in the coffin of any hopes he had for a unique psion class.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
I'm with him on an awful lot of the character content in the book. There's a HUGE amount of power creep in here, especially with racial stats and I very very strongly dislike overall power creep. I can accept the sorcerer power creep because I've always disagreed with the small amount of spells that sorcerers have. So, I feel the inherent power creep in these sorcerer origins is 'ok' because it doesn't harm the overall balance of the game.
The power creep I am not onboard with is racial stats allowing you to no longer have to make compromises for your power gain. before, if you wanted a dwarf wizard, you coudl do it, but you were going to be a bit behind on your INT progression. It's a trade. Medium armor and weapons, or...Int. Now, there's literally no drawback to picking a dwarf. If you pick an iconic elf though, you lose out on medium armor and a stat point. Yuan-ti (or satyr) barbarian is another example. Yuan-ti gives you advantage on all your saving throws vs magic. With barbs usually dumping int and wis, that's a pretty significant benefit. the tradeoff was, 14 str and con. Now, you can start with 16 Str and Con, and still get your adv on magic saving throws. There's no tradeoff, for a pure power gain. That's naked power creep and it's bad.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
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For anyone playing a sorcerer - get the new book :) not only does it give you advantage on all skills, initiative and dispel/counterspell checks for a measly 1 sorcery point, but an item in the book grants regular short range teleport outside the action economy (as an example amongst others). Pretty dope!
that was todays positive review :)
I do like the new features and metamagics, I'm just a little miffed that only the new subclasses got bonus spells, as I'm not likely to use the new subclasses. I think they're neat additions, I just don't have enough opportunities to justify playing another sorc.
Outside of A.L., it easy to just make a general houseful for sorcerer subclasses. The fun part of the new spell lists is that they're swappable with just about any spell from two of the wizard/sorcerer/warlock schools. Aberrant Mind can swap for just about any Enchantment or Illusion spell, not just the listed 10.
House Rule - gain 2 additional spells known at 1, 3, 5, 7, 9. These must be drawn from X list.
I've had a day to read through Tasha's and digest everything that has to do with playing my favorite class and here are my thoughts.
I'd say Tasha's is a step in the right direction for sorcerers. It gives DMs who might be hesitant to house rule origin spells for the other subclasses a template (and permission) to draw from. I do like that the origin spells can be swapped out when you level up. I would have preferred the UA spell versatility but you can't have everything and I will just continue to allow it at my table.
I like the new subclasses and can see how they can be changed to fit any world or backstory. In fact I have several ideas for Clockwork :-)
I do like the magic items that only a sorcerer can attune too because they give another a boost to to sorcerers that other classes don't get. The Bloodwell Vial will be particularly helpful as you get 5 sorcery points back whenever you roll Hit Dice to recover Hit Points as well as granting a bonus to attack and saving throws. The expanded spell list gives sorcerers some spells they should have had to begin with such as Flame Sphere and Fire Shield in addition to some pretty cool new options.
Not sure why you would give a bunch of melee spells to a glass canon (excepting Storm and maybe Shadow which will help them). However after thinking about it, I realized that with DM permission your sorcerer could get a magical Barrier Tattoo to boost their AC. That also frees you to dump Shield and Mage Armor.
Being able to change your Metamagic at Level 4 is nice. I wasn't happy with the Metamagic Adept feat being given to everyone (I mean its what makes us special, right?) but then I decided it could be useful since it gives sorcerers access to two additional Metamagics and two extra sorcery points.
As someone who enjoys playing sorcerers without multi classing (I tend to create characters that would never under any circumstances take a pact with an otherworldly being) I appreciate the ability to work with the DM to build something that won't die at Level 1.
I do think a lot of what is in Tasha's is preparation for the new source books coming out next year. While we don't yet know if Spelljammer and its ilk will be on the roster, it seems like it. However, I can see how all of these things can be added to help sorcerers no matter what setting they are in.
I love this book and how it handles Psionics.
At first I thought you could spend SP for psionics the same way you'd pay for spell slots (at a premium), but it's actually cheaper than that... and since they're automatically subtle that way, they can't be countered. It's just awesome.
I don't disagree that Tasha's is a step in the right direction for sorcs. While generally, I am opposed to powercreep, I generally feel that sorcerers are slightly underpowered. So, a little powercreep just brings them more in line with other classes.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Anyone know why aberrant mind got shafted so hard? The improved spell casting feature at 6 is nice but all the other abilities are situational. It feels like the thief subclass where there are okay situational things throughout and then a really good capstone ability. Except the capstone for aberrant mind is really underwhelming. It’s a marginally improved thunder step. That does not live up to its name. By comparison the clock work subclass is much stronger.
I don't think that aberrant mind got shafted at all. Psionic spells is what it (sorcerer) needs and extremely flavorful in the case of the aberrant mind. Telepathic speech is niche, but still useful and potentially a lot of fun. Psionic sorcery is amazing. Psychic defenses is half ribbon, and half niche. Meh, but it's a second level 6 ability. it probably /shouldn't/ be great. Revelation in flesh is extremely useful. Warping implosion is fantastic.
Sorry, but I don't see shafted in any of it's abilities. They're all good.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
I don't know what the original Aberrant Soul was like, but each of these abilities seem pretty strong to me before we talk about more spells.
Telepathy up to 5 miles is great, especially when coordinating with the group scout. Lots of people talk about how Message and Detect Thoughts are great spells. This adds to that kind of playstyle.
At 6, Psychic Defenses effectively negates most mind control powers while also giving you an upgraded Subtle Spell metamagic for free.
Level 14 gives you flight, as a bonus action, at the cost of 1 Point or a level 1 spell slot - dragon sorcerer gets flight without cost, but doesn't have the potential for See Invisible, squeezing through cracks, or swimming. A fair trade off, imho, especially at this level.
Level 18 is a bit strange, and doesn't really fit with the rest of the abilities. But then I find that most of the level 18 sorcerer subclass features to be oddly disappointing. So... par for the course?
All in all, I find this to be a rather social heavy but extremely potent subclass. If the original was stronger... I hesitate to think how much stronger.
Psionics should be it’s own unique class, the Aberrant Mind shouldn’t even exist.
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@Mephista: I couldn't agree more. I feel like the stuff for Level 6 is under-valued because the later stuff is so mild... but flight for 10mn is nothing to sneeze at. Heck, Aasimar get it for 1mn. This seems to be the first hardcover book where they aren't peeing themselves over the concept of flight as anything other than a spell or magic item, and I love it.
As for their capstone abilities, yeah, they tend to be underwhelming, but I imagine that's because most anything else can be easilly broken and they'd rather be cautious.
Lol bro, lol.
While I'd prefer to have the Mystic Class, if it has to die, this is the way to do it.
What? With that garbage subclass?!?
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here's an original aberrant mind leveled to 20 with no spells selected other than mind sliver. https://ddb.ac/characters/36839366/iDXnrg
It's stronger than the original was, psionic sorcery is much improved. all it loses is warped being (free mage armor) which I loved, but is absolutely a good trade for what you get in psionic sorcery.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
That subclass is gold! Gold I tell you!
It’s garbage and should not exist. I was happy when they scrapped it the first time.
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I H.A.T.E. how this book handles Psionics. I hate everything about the book and think Crawford should have to go door to door offering apologies and handing out replacement versions that errata 90% of the book, and when he’s done he should be fired and blacklisted from game design forever. As far as I’m concerned, this is the book of hat ruined 5e.
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Its a bit hard to follow your hard stance on psionics IamSposta... its not like they made aberrant mind the ony psionic option - what they did was basically to define psionics as a form of magic, so any sorcerer/wizard could say their casting comes from the mind. Personally this makes a lot more sense to me. For the same reason I never understood the warlock, except as an outlet to make new game mechanics.
Perhaps I can offer some enlightenment on his position. He and I clashed A LOT when they started talking psionics, and I've previously in this thread avoided commenting on his posts, specifically because I pretty much got exactly what I wanted, and he got precisely what he argued vehemently against. I want to /try/ and be a good sport about "winning" this round and not rub his nose in while he's upset, because he's a good guy who's got just as "right" of an opinion as I do.
The sum of his position is basically, that psionics is /not/ magic and it should not be treated as though it's just magic. It should have a completely unique mechanic to represent it, not be a subset of spells bolted onto the sorcerer (which should have been a psion in the first place before metamagic was stolen to make sorcerers unique from wizards when flexible casting was stolen from sorcerers). The crux of his heartburn on this is that it's a huge slap in the face to psion fans that they do not get unique mechanics to represent what in their opinion is completely separate from "weave magic" for lack of a better term. The fact that the Aberrant mind exists, with the terminolgy it has, with things being called "psionic sorcery" slams a final nail in the coffin of any hopes he had for a unique psion class.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
I'm with him on an awful lot of the character content in the book. There's a HUGE amount of power creep in here, especially with racial stats and I very very strongly dislike overall power creep. I can accept the sorcerer power creep because I've always disagreed with the small amount of spells that sorcerers have. So, I feel the inherent power creep in these sorcerer origins is 'ok' because it doesn't harm the overall balance of the game.
The power creep I am not onboard with is racial stats allowing you to no longer have to make compromises for your power gain. before, if you wanted a dwarf wizard, you coudl do it, but you were going to be a bit behind on your INT progression. It's a trade. Medium armor and weapons, or...Int. Now, there's literally no drawback to picking a dwarf. If you pick an iconic elf though, you lose out on medium armor and a stat point. Yuan-ti (or satyr) barbarian is another example. Yuan-ti gives you advantage on all your saving throws vs magic. With barbs usually dumping int and wis, that's a pretty significant benefit. the tradeoff was, 14 str and con. Now, you can start with 16 Str and Con, and still get your adv on magic saving throws. There's no tradeoff, for a pure power gain. That's naked power creep and it's bad.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha