In one of the campaigns i’m planning on joining, I theorized a hypothetical multiclass of Artificer(artillerist) and Barbarian(beast), with my main stats being INT and CON. I was told by a friend that this combo is suboptimal, and I wanted to go over my thought process for the strange combination so I can receive input and start discussion because I genuinely believe that there is potential in this multiclass.
Of course Rage is the one mechanic we have to work around, not being able to concentrate on or cast spells means that every full caster is better off going into any other frontliner class. But this is where the artificer’s infusions come in; they can buff themselves and create magic items (like gauntlets of ogre strength to ignore having to increase strength) that they can still make use of while raging. The inclusion of spells also gives the character something to use when they run out of rages or are outside of combat.
as for the best combination of subclasses, I feel the only real subclass to avoid would be the Armorer. Which might be redundant anyway since the weapons that come with the armor aren’t as effective as the melee options. Personally the reason I chose Artillerist and beast was because I was trying to recreate Godrick the Grafted, since I made this character shortly after becoming addicted to elden ring. But other subclass combinations might work better.
Rage specifically stops you from casting and concentrating on spells. You could totally summon your turrets and go ham with rage while gunning them down as a bonus action with a flamethrower. You could also have a metal dog friend to give you an advantage without needing to reckless attack and to give you a bit more battlefield control. You can also totally get away with having medium armor on and still benefit from being a barbarian (baring unarmored defense).
All of this to say that, you could totally go into both if you are willing to allocate your stats as you've mentioned. I don't see why it wouldn't work mechanically and I think it could be fun to be an angry techie.
I think this could work, since summoning and controlling the Eldritch Cannon isn't actually spellcasting, so it's still a viable companion to a Barbarian and gives you a way to potentially use spell slots still. I think you'd probably be best off only taking Artificer to 3rd level... you're not going to get much use out of the Arcane Firearm, since you're not going to be casting magic in combat if you can help it.
Here's your biggest problem with your proposed build... you cannot use the Replicate Magic Item infusion to recreate Gauntlets of Ogre Power until you reach 10th level in Artificer. And if you're going to invest 10 levels into Artificer, you're honestly better off just sticking with Artificer all the way, since you're either going to be a terrible Barbarian up to that point, or you'll have been an artificer fully the whole time and suddenly start dipping into Barbarian somewhere in the middle of your campaign. You're going to have to wrestle with your stats a bit more... maybe you could prioritize STR and INT and keep CON as your third stat? I suppose if you have at least decent STR your Barbarian skills can compensate for having less-than-ideal STR... you can go reckless to gain advantage and help still land hits, and Rage damage can make up for not having great STR, but at that point again I feel like you're kind of better off just going Artificer fully. The other option is to not prioritize INT... your Eldritch Cannon won't be as reliable, but if you treat it more like a bonus to dip into rather than the focus of your build it won't necessarily be terrible.
I dunno... it's obviously not an easy build, but I do feel like it can be done.
The point about focusing on ability scores is an important factor, yeah. For the build I went with I had INT and STR set to the multiclassing minimum since both can be improved with infusions, whereas CON can’t. But I do think the idea of a small dip is also a valid strategy.
personally I had planned to go with 10/10. The gauntlets of ogre power supplementing my low strength so I could spend my ASIs for either feats or more important stats like DEC and to cap off CON. this concept definitely needs more work to fully optimize it, the potential of making it work is exciting since it seems so weird from the surface.
I went artificer for Goodrich so I could reflavored the handheld artillerist canon as the dragon head, with the path of the beast Barbarian to get better with the great axe. In terms of lore reasons I feel Godrick is more of a warlock than a Paladin. He hasn’t sworn an oath to anything and is essentially using the limbs of anyone he can get his hands on to strengthen himself. Sort of a patronless warlock if that makes sense.
Exactly. Most of the artificer subclasses have features that allow for spell-like effects that can still be used within the limits of rage. You could totally get away with pumping int, making magic items that boost your strength and only having to sacrifice an attunement slot while being able to use the primary features of both classes. I think artificer may be the only half or full caster with good synergy with Barbarian.
Oh my god, I never realized you can make Gauntlets of Ogre Power using just your Artificer class features. Though, it is at level 10 Artificer, so idk, maybe it's okay? Sorry, I'm getting off-topic, I'm just startled to see a class feature that sets your dump stat to 19.
I think this is probably a pretty low-impact character honestly. Artificer spell progression is already quite slow without multiclassing. Maybe you could just pick Dragonborn as your race so you'd have a breath weapon, and go fully into one class?
It is doable, but not with a strength and an Int of 13, you would be pretty much useless as you will rarely hit anything and your spell saving throw / attacks would also be terrible. Most games don't get anywhere near level 20, and by the time you make the gauntlets many games would be coming to an end even if you took all 10 levels in Artificer first. It is worth it with better stats though for sure.
I think the build could be effective if taking into account the limitations and breakpoints of both classes. Taking into account “normal” levels of play typically being level 10 or lower I’d say sticking to level 3 for the subclass dip for either artificer or barbarian would be important.
If going to level 3 artificer then the artificers spellcasting is somewhat versatile since they are prepared spellcasters who have access to rituals. The rituals can definitely support the party and aren’t typically used during combat, so rage wouldn’t be an issue. The prepared spells would be limited to 2 or 3 depending on the +1 or +2 int modifier along with 2 subclass permanently prepared. The cantrip choices can be confined to utility options which would also supplement out of combat viability. Magical tinkering could provide some more utility even though Intelligence might be limited to a +1 or +2 modifier. The ability to make some nonmagical objects produce light might be useful too for you or the party in combat.
if going to level 3 in barbarian for subclass features then we’re going to be limited to 3 rages a day. It’s probably not enough for The whole adventuring day of your group is combat heavy but it can be used most combats so long as you don’t find yourself incapacitated. Most of the subclass features gained at level 3 or barbarian are limited in efficacy by relying on rage to be activated or actively used to work. The offensive boost in damage rage provides is capped at +2 for a while and requires the Strength attribute to be used on melee attacks. The Strength restriction applies to the use of reckless attack too.
I wouldn’t worry too much about being “suboptimal” as long as your still able to perform some sort of magic casting for utility and perhaps an element of control added to your attacks, like with the ancestral guardian or armored. If you’re worried about damage then stay strength based, prioritize extra attack by level 5 from somewhere, and take great weapon master you should be decent with damage during tiers 1 and 2 of play.
Although this doesn’t seem like what OP wants to build, I could see a pretty viable Artificer/Barbarian using Armorer or Battlesmith with Totem Bear or Ancestral Guardian. The key is to rely on INT bonuses for attacks, so you can focus on INT and just have a 13 STR. Both of those Artificer subclasses provide that to some degree. Neither of those Artificer subclasses are likely to focus on spells in combat anyway, so raging just helps them do damage and tank.
Guardian model Armorer’s thunder gauntlets, plate armor AC, and bear totem resistances would make you hard to hurt and hard for your targets to hurt anyone else. Ancestral Guardian’s Ancestral Protectors would similarly impose disadvantage against anyone else on your target, and that could include a Steel Defender for a Battlesmith.
The biggest problem with this idea is that many barbarian features exclusively apply to attacks that use strength, which conflicts with the artificer features that let you attack with int. I suppose there is some value in just treating the barbarian levels as a way to get resistance, and not caring about the loss of rage damage, but at that point you're still wasting a lot of class features to get one gimmick that's probably not as useful as just going single class.
I think the build could be effective if taking into account the limitations and breakpoints of both classes. Taking into account “normal” levels of play typically being level 10 or lower I’d say sticking to level 3 for the subclass dip for either artificer or barbarian would be important.
If going to level 3 artificer then the artificers spellcasting is somewhat versatile since they are prepared spellcasters who have access to rituals. The rituals can definitely support the party and aren’t typically used during combat, so rage wouldn’t be an issue. The prepared spells would be limited to 2 or 3 depending on the +1 or +2 int modifier along with 2 subclass permanently prepared. The cantrip choices can be confined to utility options which would also supplement out of combat viability. Magical tinkering could provide some more utility even though Intelligence might be limited to a +1 or +2 modifier. The ability to make some nonmagical objects produce light might be useful too for you or the party in combat.
if going to level 3 in barbarian for subclass features then we’re going to be limited to 3 rages a day. It’s probably not enough for The whole adventuring day of your group is combat heavy but it can be used most combats so long as you don’t find yourself incapacitated. Most of the subclass features gained at level 3 or barbarian are limited in efficacy by relying on rage to be activated or actively used to work. The offensive boost in damage rage provides is capped at +2 for a while and requires the Strength attribute to be used on melee attacks. The Strength restriction applies to the use of reckless attack too.
I wouldn’t worry too much about being “suboptimal” as long as your still able to perform some sort of magic casting for utility and perhaps an element of control added to your attacks, like with the ancestral guardian or armored. If you’re worried about damage then stay strength based, prioritize extra attack by level 5 from somewhere, and take great weapon master you should be decent with damage during tiers 1 and 2 of play.
I would agree that the main drawback of this build is that it relies on higher levels to function. By the time the player reaches level 13 where they can get their Barbarian path and the proper magic items the campaign would likely be over. It would be easier to just switch to one of the two classes at an earlier level instead of waiting until level ten. I had just seen that both classes receive features at that level.
on the topic of spells, artificers do receive a lot of valuable non-combat spells, which wouldn’t step on rages’ toes when in combat.
The biggest problem with this idea is that many barbarian features exclusively apply to attacks that use strength, which conflicts with the artificer features that let you attack with int. I suppose there is some value in just treating the barbarian levels as a way to get resistance, and not caring about the loss of rage damage, but at that point you're still wasting a lot of class features to get one gimmick that's probably not as useful as just going single class.
I agree that this build is very gimmicky, but the main idea is that we pick up gauntlets of ogre power so because of how much the barbarian relies on strength for its’ attacks. INT can be increased with ASI’s during the meantime or can be buffed up to 19 at the same time with another infusion.
Although this doesn’t seem like what OP wants to build, I could see a pretty viable Artificer/Barbarian using Armorer or Battlesmith with Totem Bear or Ancestral Guardian. The key is to rely on INT bonuses for attacks, so you can focus on INT and just have a 13 STR. Both of those Artificer subclasses provide that to some degree. Neither of those Artificer subclasses are likely to focus on spells in combat anyway, so raging just helps them do damage and tank.
Guardian model Armorer’s thunder gauntlets, plate armor AC, and bear totem resistances would make you hard to hurt and hard for your targets to hurt anyone else. Ancestral Guardian’s Ancestral Protectors would similarly impose disadvantage against anyone else on your target, and that could include a Steel Defender for a Battlesmith.
It’s been a good few months since I’ve looked at this thread but I would like to finally reply to this.
this build seems strong! I like the idea of this build being a sort of mech pilot who tanks damage and draws aggression instead of laying damage down. There’s not a lot of room to flex with the minimum investment for artificer is ten. I feel like sixth level of the ancestral guardian is more valuable than going all the way to tenth level to get spells the artificer can already supplement with their own spells. In which case it might be a good idea to either got back into artificer for the last four levels, or to triple down on the tanking aspect of this build by finishing off with four levels of cavalier. If our character is small sized we can even ride our steel defender.
You can’t rage in heavy armour. Even if you have proficiency in it. It’s a bad build, you lose a lot and gain very little to compensate.
But medium armor can still be used in combination with rage, that combined with the infusions and subclass features/feats that can enhance medium armor I feel makes up for the trade off of not having heavy armor on its own.
Artificer/Barbarian is one of the lowest synergies of all multiclass combos.
Specify. This thread has already gone over a lot of synergies that other caster classes can’t do when combined with Barbarian. If anything this combination is way better than any other full or half caster + Barbarian.
Artificer/Barbarian is one of the lowest synergies of all multiclass combos.
Specify. This thread has already gone over a lot of synergies that other caster classes can’t do when combined with Barbarian. If anything this combination is way better than any other full or half caster + Barbarian.
Because as Transmorpher pointed out already, a very large portion of both the Artificer's and Barbarian's class features are mutually exclusive. Rage, and consequently all rage-dependent features, is mutually exclusive with both heavy armor and spellcasting. Making Gauntlets of Ogre Power explicitly requires the Artificer to be 10th level, a point by which many campaigns are already over. This build looks powerful only if you go by the end-game stuff and ignore all the levels in between. And don't compare it to a single-classed Barbarian or Artificer, since both of those classes get some serious late game abilities that this hypothetical build is locked out of..
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Artificer/Barbarian is one of the lowest synergies of all multiclass combos.
Specify. This thread has already gone over a lot of synergies that other caster classes can’t do when combined with Barbarian. If anything this combination is way better than any other full or half caster + Barbarian.
Because as Transmorpher pointed out already, a very large portion of both the Artificer's and Barbarian's class features are mutually exclusive. Rage, and consequently all rage-dependent features, is mutually exclusive with both heavy armor and spellcasting. Making Gauntlets of Ogre Power explicitly requires the Artificer to be 10th level, a point by which many campaigns are already over. This build looks powerful only if you go by the end-game stuff and ignore all the levels in between. And don't compare it to a single-classed Barbarian or Artificer, since both of those classes get some serious late game abilities that this hypothetical build is locked out of..
The whole point of buildcrafting is to judge the build from it’s finished state, so there’s really no reason to judge it as if it was going to stop at level 10, even so at that point the character would be playing as a standard melee artificer. Plus both Barbarian and artificer are frontloaded classes, with the point being that we go to level 10 not just for gauntlets, but for magic item adept. Artificers are one of the only caster classes who get methods of laying down damage that isn’t shut down by rage. Barbarians also receive a primal path feature by this point, 10/10 is a fine spread but I can see 9/11 to get relentless rage in exchange for magic item adept. Battlesmith specifically doesn’t need to go to level ten because they can use their INT for weapon attacks/damage instead of strength. This build is good at giving versatility to a really simple class so they have something to do when they run out of rages. No other caster can do that.
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In one of the campaigns i’m planning on joining, I theorized a hypothetical multiclass of Artificer(artillerist) and Barbarian(beast), with my main stats being INT and CON. I was told by a friend that this combo is suboptimal, and I wanted to go over my thought process for the strange combination so I can receive input and start discussion because I genuinely believe that there is potential in this multiclass.
Of course Rage is the one mechanic we have to work around, not being able to concentrate on or cast spells means that every full caster is better off going into any other frontliner class. But this is where the artificer’s infusions come in; they can buff themselves and create magic items (like gauntlets of ogre strength to ignore having to increase strength) that they can still make use of while raging. The inclusion of spells also gives the character something to use when they run out of rages or are outside of combat.
as for the best combination of subclasses, I feel the only real subclass to avoid would be the Armorer. Which might be redundant anyway since the weapons that come with the armor aren’t as effective as the melee options. Personally the reason I chose Artillerist and beast was because I was trying to recreate Godrick the Grafted, since I made this character shortly after becoming addicted to elden ring. But other subclass combinations might work better.
Rage specifically stops you from casting and concentrating on spells. You could totally summon your turrets and go ham with rage while gunning them down as a bonus action with a flamethrower. You could also have a metal dog friend to give you an advantage without needing to reckless attack and to give you a bit more battlefield control. You can also totally get away with having medium armor on and still benefit from being a barbarian (baring unarmored defense).
All of this to say that, you could totally go into both if you are willing to allocate your stats as you've mentioned. I don't see why it wouldn't work mechanically and I think it could be fun to be an angry techie.
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I think this could work, since summoning and controlling the Eldritch Cannon isn't actually spellcasting, so it's still a viable companion to a Barbarian and gives you a way to potentially use spell slots still. I think you'd probably be best off only taking Artificer to 3rd level... you're not going to get much use out of the Arcane Firearm, since you're not going to be casting magic in combat if you can help it.
Here's your biggest problem with your proposed build... you cannot use the Replicate Magic Item infusion to recreate Gauntlets of Ogre Power until you reach 10th level in Artificer. And if you're going to invest 10 levels into Artificer, you're honestly better off just sticking with Artificer all the way, since you're either going to be a terrible Barbarian up to that point, or you'll have been an artificer fully the whole time and suddenly start dipping into Barbarian somewhere in the middle of your campaign. You're going to have to wrestle with your stats a bit more... maybe you could prioritize STR and INT and keep CON as your third stat? I suppose if you have at least decent STR your Barbarian skills can compensate for having less-than-ideal STR... you can go reckless to gain advantage and help still land hits, and Rage damage can make up for not having great STR, but at that point again I feel like you're kind of better off just going Artificer fully. The other option is to not prioritize INT... your Eldritch Cannon won't be as reliable, but if you treat it more like a bonus to dip into rather than the focus of your build it won't necessarily be terrible.
I dunno... it's obviously not an easy build, but I do feel like it can be done.
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The point about focusing on ability scores is an important factor, yeah. For the build I went with I had INT and STR set to the multiclassing minimum since both can be improved with infusions, whereas CON can’t. But I do think the idea of a small dip is also a valid strategy.
personally I had planned to go with 10/10. The gauntlets of ogre power supplementing my low strength so I could spend my ASIs for either feats or more important stats like DEC and to cap off CON. this concept definitely needs more work to fully optimize it, the potential of making it work is exciting since it seems so weird from the surface.
I went artificer for Goodrich so I could reflavored the handheld artillerist canon as the dragon head, with the path of the beast Barbarian to get better with the great axe. In terms of lore reasons I feel Godrick is more of a warlock than a Paladin. He hasn’t sworn an oath to anything and is essentially using the limbs of anyone he can get his hands on to strengthen himself. Sort of a patronless warlock if that makes sense.
Exactly. Most of the artificer subclasses have features that allow for spell-like effects that can still be used within the limits of rage. You could totally get away with pumping int, making magic items that boost your strength and only having to sacrifice an attunement slot while being able to use the primary features of both classes. I think artificer may be the only half or full caster with good synergy with Barbarian.
Oh my god, I never realized you can make Gauntlets of Ogre Power using just your Artificer class features. Though, it is at level 10 Artificer, so idk, maybe it's okay? Sorry, I'm getting off-topic, I'm just startled to see a class feature that sets your dump stat to 19.
I think this is probably a pretty low-impact character honestly. Artificer spell progression is already quite slow without multiclassing. Maybe you could just pick Dragonborn as your race so you'd have a breath weapon, and go fully into one class?
It is doable, but not with a strength and an Int of 13, you would be pretty much useless as you will rarely hit anything and your spell saving throw / attacks would also be terrible. Most games don't get anywhere near level 20, and by the time you make the gauntlets many games would be coming to an end even if you took all 10 levels in Artificer first. It is worth it with better stats though for sure.
I think the build could be effective if taking into account the limitations and breakpoints of both classes. Taking into account “normal” levels of play typically being level 10 or lower I’d say sticking to level 3 for the subclass dip for either artificer or barbarian would be important.
If going to level 3 artificer then the artificers spellcasting is somewhat versatile since they are prepared spellcasters who have access to rituals. The rituals can definitely support the party and aren’t typically used during combat, so rage wouldn’t be an issue. The prepared spells would be limited to 2 or 3 depending on the +1 or +2 int modifier along with 2 subclass permanently prepared. The cantrip choices can be confined to utility options which would also supplement out of combat viability. Magical tinkering could provide some more utility even though Intelligence might be limited to a +1 or +2 modifier. The ability to make some nonmagical objects produce light might be useful too for you or the party in combat.
if going to level 3 in barbarian for subclass features then we’re going to be limited to 3 rages a day. It’s probably not enough for The whole adventuring day of your group is combat heavy but it can be used most combats so long as you don’t find yourself incapacitated. Most of the subclass features gained at level 3 or barbarian are limited in efficacy by relying on rage to be activated or actively used to work. The offensive boost in damage rage provides is capped at +2 for a while and requires the Strength attribute to be used on melee attacks. The Strength restriction applies to the use of reckless attack too.
I wouldn’t worry too much about being “suboptimal” as long as your still able to perform some sort of magic casting for utility and perhaps an element of control added to your attacks, like with the ancestral guardian or armored. If you’re worried about damage then stay strength based, prioritize extra attack by level 5 from somewhere, and take great weapon master you should be decent with damage during tiers 1 and 2 of play.
Although this doesn’t seem like what OP wants to build, I could see a pretty viable Artificer/Barbarian using Armorer or Battlesmith with Totem Bear or Ancestral Guardian. The key is to rely on INT bonuses for attacks, so you can focus on INT and just have a 13 STR. Both of those Artificer subclasses provide that to some degree. Neither of those Artificer subclasses are likely to focus on spells in combat anyway, so raging just helps them do damage and tank.
Guardian model Armorer’s thunder gauntlets, plate armor AC, and bear totem resistances would make you hard to hurt and hard for your targets to hurt anyone else. Ancestral Guardian’s Ancestral Protectors would similarly impose disadvantage against anyone else on your target, and that could include a Steel Defender for a Battlesmith.
The biggest problem with this idea is that many barbarian features exclusively apply to attacks that use strength, which conflicts with the artificer features that let you attack with int. I suppose there is some value in just treating the barbarian levels as a way to get resistance, and not caring about the loss of rage damage, but at that point you're still wasting a lot of class features to get one gimmick that's probably not as useful as just going single class.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
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I would agree that the main drawback of this build is that it relies on higher levels to function. By the time the player reaches level 13 where they can get their Barbarian path and the proper magic items the campaign would likely be over. It would be easier to just switch to one of the two classes at an earlier level instead of waiting until level ten. I had just seen that both classes receive features at that level.
on the topic of spells, artificers do receive a lot of valuable non-combat spells, which wouldn’t step on rages’ toes when in combat.
I agree that this build is very gimmicky, but the main idea is that we pick up gauntlets of ogre power so because of how much the barbarian relies on strength for its’ attacks. INT can be increased with ASI’s during the meantime or can be buffed up to 19 at the same time with another infusion.
It’s been a good few months since I’ve looked at this thread but I would like to finally reply to this.
this build seems strong! I like the idea of this build being a sort of mech pilot who tanks damage and draws aggression instead of laying damage down. There’s not a lot of room to flex with the minimum investment for artificer is ten. I feel like sixth level of the ancestral guardian is more valuable than going all the way to tenth level to get spells the artificer can already supplement with their own spells. In which case it might be a good idea to either got back into artificer for the last four levels, or to triple down on the tanking aspect of this build by finishing off with four levels of cavalier. If our character is small sized we can even ride our steel defender.
You can’t rage in heavy armour. Even if you have proficiency in it. It’s a bad build, you lose a lot and gain very little to compensate.
Artificer/Barbarian is one of the lowest synergies of all multiclass combos.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
But medium armor can still be used in combination with rage, that combined with the infusions and subclass features/feats that can enhance medium armor I feel makes up for the trade off of not having heavy armor on its own.
Specify. This thread has already gone over a lot of synergies that other caster classes can’t do when combined with Barbarian. If anything this combination is way better than any other full or half caster + Barbarian.
Because as Transmorpher pointed out already, a very large portion of both the Artificer's and Barbarian's class features are mutually exclusive. Rage, and consequently all rage-dependent features, is mutually exclusive with both heavy armor and spellcasting. Making Gauntlets of Ogre Power explicitly requires the Artificer to be 10th level, a point by which many campaigns are already over. This build looks powerful only if you go by the end-game stuff and ignore all the levels in between. And don't compare it to a single-classed Barbarian or Artificer, since both of those classes get some serious late game abilities that this hypothetical build is locked out of..
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
The whole point of buildcrafting is to judge the build from it’s finished state, so there’s really no reason to judge it as if it was going to stop at level 10, even so at that point the character would be playing as a standard melee artificer. Plus both Barbarian and artificer are frontloaded classes, with the point being that we go to level 10 not just for gauntlets, but for magic item adept. Artificers are one of the only caster classes who get methods of laying down damage that isn’t shut down by rage. Barbarians also receive a primal path feature by this point, 10/10 is a fine spread but I can see 9/11 to get relentless rage in exchange for magic item adept. Battlesmith specifically doesn’t need to go to level ten because they can use their INT for weapon attacks/damage instead of strength. This build is good at giving versatility to a really simple class so they have something to do when they run out of rages. No other caster can do that.