I'm the Dm for a group that is running a published adventure. The group will soon encounter somewhere between 1-4 mages and their thug lackeys, who are after the same McGuffins as the party. The adventure statted all 4 as mages, but that seemed rather boring, so I made some changes.
I bumped the leader up to a necromancer with the following spells:
For Mage #3, I wanted someone who had a fascination with melee. So I bumped his STR a bit, gave him a quarterstaff of spellcasting (which, notably removes disadvantage on ranged spells used in melee) and set his spells as follow:
At the moment, at least the 4th one is a straight [monster]mage[/mage]
It is unlikely that all 4 will encounter the party at once; more likely it will be 1 or two, along with probably 2 thugs per mage. Any suggestions on tactics?
What level are your players? Depending on that, the power of a 4th or 5th level fireball (or 3) may be more than enough. I'm assuming though, since you're asking, that your players are bit higher level and need a challenge.
I would plan on the thugs and the melee mage to be killed right away as they rush the party. This will work well as you have a necromancer with the ability to cast Danse Macabre. I would keep him back and protected (with both he and your evocation Mage counter spelling what he needs to to protect the necromancer from the PC spellcasters). With this, as your PCs try to reach the necromancer he'll keep resurrecting the thugs and mages to gang up on the PCs.
The issue will be how to keep this necromancer from getting focused down in the first few rounds. Might I suggest using terrain elements to obstruct your PCs? What environment is the fight going to take place? Ledges, buildings, pits, etc. are all great ways to slow PCs down and get them to think creatively. Two of your mages have misty step, making navigating difficult terrain easy if they are in need of a quick getaway.
I'm kind of a mean bi*** when it comes to enemy spellcasters and PCs. Mages with all damaging spells? Bah. I'm throwing Hold Person and Banishment spells around. Wizard/warlocks/sorcerer types aren't direct damage masters. They're best at crowd control effects. Especially when you have minions to deal the damage. Have a succubus summoned and waiting in the ethereal plane, who will then Charm the group Barbarian/Fighter/whatever, and have them turn on their friends. Wall and Fly spells are very good, because then you can't actually reach the mage. Always keep a Misty Step and Shield in your pocket- eff getting caught up in melee.
Direct damage is generally the least useful thing a mage can do to contribute to a combat. Lockdown the enemy is the name of the game.
Melee mage? Are you thinking Hexblade, Bladesinger, or Giant Soul? In the case of a Bladesinger, that can be a very frustrating fight if you properly prepare with things like Haste, Mirror Image, and the like; bladesingers don't get hit. Giant Souls grow really large, get large HP pools, and then can smack or grapple people when they're large; depending on the type of giant, you can even get some very nice spells to distract the party. Hexblade... well, I would mix hexblade and fiend, then cover the hexblade in things like Armor of Agathys and fire shield and play the "every time you hit me, you take massive damage back" game. Use Hexes to teleport around the field and stab the back row people first.
Why does your Necromancer not having Animate Dead? Why doesn't s/he have significant slots dedicated to his undead horde?
As Mephista said you have ALL blaster casters. Which while Wizards have low HP, aside from the monk/rogue even a Barbarian can't stand up to 4 fireballs a turn!
I would say do something different with the 4th. Make an Abjurationist. Svirfneblin are amazing at it because Svirfneblin Magic Feat gets then Nondetect at will which heals 6hp on the Arcane Shield, plus blindness/deafness and blur once a day.
You have lots of DPS spells, but you don't really have anything that alters the battlefield, messes with movement, etc...
Speaking of that, but Thunderwave on the Melee Caster. It's an amazing spell that can shove half the party in a single casting.
Also.... these wizards have 90% Blaster Casters. How do they plan on escaping?
As everyone else here has pointed out: Spell casters are the most tactically minded standard class out there, play that up. I had a Drow Sorcerer who I played all the way up to epic levels and it wasn't because I could blast my way out of everything. About 1/3 of my spells were damage spells, that's all I needed. The rest of the spells were the type that made it almost impossible to get to me or my party.
Imagine, if you will, that there is a group of people intent on making you dead. The first thing you do is cast Fireball to crush any of the weaker opponents. Then, as you finish your turn you tell the group to stay at ranged for a moment longer. You charge up those massive arcane energies and cast Hypnotic Pattern to incapacitate and stop as much of the group as possible, allowing your group to close ranks on them. In just two spells you've taken away a large chunk of health from a good number of the opponents and then made the remaining potential punching bags for your party. You then walk casually toward the fray and drop....Sleep. That simple combination of spells has made more DMs rage quit battles I've been in than anything else and all beginning at the low level of 5.
Another fun tactic is to use your Transmute Rock to lock opponents into stone, however before you do that you Earth Tremor to give you some help, and finish it off with Erupting Earth. The battlefield is a nasty place, it's even more nasty when the enemy knows how to use it to their advantage, it's the absolute worst when the enemy can make it work for them.
Thanks everyone for the input! To address a few questions:
-Party is level 7-8; depending on the night we could have anywhere from 3 to 6 PCs. Adventure is geared for 4-5 level 5 players at this stage, so they are a bit ahead.
-Part of my reason for asking is that I'm not particularly tactically minded, especially not when it comes to casters
-encounter(s) with the mages will be in an ancient, ruined city precise location is currently up for grabs
I'm very open to changing up spells to create a better balance, and to upgrading the thugs; more suggestions are welcome. I want to be able to go into combat with notes about each mage's tactics, so I have a game plan to start with. It's too easy for me to get paralyzed with all the spell choices.
Mage 3: Creature control, mind affecting spells, ways to turn opponents into (at the least) temporary assets, high mobility
Mage 4: Summons, buffing, damage spells, and being hard to find
Thugs are easy enough to give them support via the mages, have them paired with a mage and accent the mage they're with or fill in where the mage is weakest. Mix and match ranged and melee thugs, use them to fill in gaps, harass the enemy, and protect the back line.
Bigby's Hand is a great choice for an evocation-focused wizard because it offers several different tactical options to the caster, letting them choose what's best for the particular situation. For the melee-focused mage, using greater invisibility and nondetection will give them constant advantage in combat until someone figures out a way to get rid of the invisibility. It's particularly potent when used in conjunction with steel wind strike early in the combat, because all of the steel wind strike attacks will very likely be made with advantage. Note, too, that nondetection lasts for 8 hours, so it can be precast. To understand why nondetection is so powerful in this context: https://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/11/16/does-nondetection-plus-invisibility-beat-true-seeing/
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I'm the Dm for a group that is running a published adventure. The group will soon encounter somewhere between 1-4 mages and their thug lackeys, who are after the same McGuffins as the party. The adventure statted all 4 as mages, but that seemed rather boring, so I made some changes.
I bumped the leader up to a necromancer with the following spells:
Cantrips (at will): chill touch, light, mage hand, prestidigitation
1st level (4 slots): detect magic, mage armor, magic missile, shield
2nd level (3 slots): ray of enfeeblement*, suggestion
3rd level (3 slots): counterspell, fireball, vampiric touch*
4th level (3 slots): greater invisibility, Blight*, dimension door
5th level (2 slots): Danse Macabre*, cloudkill
6th level (1 slot): circle of death*
*marks necromancy spells for her Grim Harvest feature
Mage #2 I left as a mage, but I changed her spells to be more evocation focused:
Cantrips (at will): fire bolt, dancing lights, create bonfire, prestidigitation
1st level (4 slots): detect magic, mage armor, chromatic orb, shield
2nd level (3 slots): Aganazzar's Scorcher, Continual Flame
3rd level (3 slots): counterspell, fireball, Melf's Minute Meteors
4th level (3 slots): fire shield, sickening radiance
5th level (1 slot): immolation
For Mage #3, I wanted someone who had a fascination with melee. So I bumped his STR a bit, gave him a quarterstaff of spellcasting (which, notably removes disadvantage on ranged spells used in melee) and set his spells as follow:
Cantrips (at will): Shocking Grasp, light, ray of frost, message
1st level (4 slots): comprehend languages, color spray, mage armor, shield
2nd level (3 slots): misty step, blur
3rd level (3 slots): counterspell, lightning bolt, fly
4th level (3 slots): stoneskin, banishment
5th level (1 slot): steel wind strike
At the moment, at least the 4th one is a straight [monster]mage[/mage]
It is unlikely that all 4 will encounter the party at once; more likely it will be 1 or two, along with probably 2 thugs per mage. Any suggestions on tactics?
Trying to Decide if DDB is for you? A few helpful threads: A Buyer's Guide to DDB; What I/We Bought and Why; How some DMs use DDB; A Newer Thread on Using DDB to Play
Helpful threads on other topics: Homebrew FAQ by IamSposta; Accessing Content by ConalTheGreat;
Check your entitlements here. | Support Ticket LInk
Buff the thugs, send them in to tie up the party while the mage sits back and hits from distance?
If you party is strong enough to face a CR6 mage, I doubt that two CR1/2 thugs will offer the mage cover for very long. What level is the party?
"Not all those who wander are lost"
What level are your players? Depending on that, the power of a 4th or 5th level fireball (or 3) may be more than enough. I'm assuming though, since you're asking, that your players are bit higher level and need a challenge.
I would plan on the thugs and the melee mage to be killed right away as they rush the party. This will work well as you have a necromancer with the ability to cast Danse Macabre. I would keep him back and protected (with both he and your evocation Mage counter spelling what he needs to to protect the necromancer from the PC spellcasters). With this, as your PCs try to reach the necromancer he'll keep resurrecting the thugs and mages to gang up on the PCs.
The issue will be how to keep this necromancer from getting focused down in the first few rounds. Might I suggest using terrain elements to obstruct your PCs? What environment is the fight going to take place? Ledges, buildings, pits, etc. are all great ways to slow PCs down and get them to think creatively. Two of your mages have misty step, making navigating difficult terrain easy if they are in need of a quick getaway.
I'm kind of a mean bi*** when it comes to enemy spellcasters and PCs. Mages with all damaging spells? Bah. I'm throwing Hold Person and Banishment spells around. Wizard/warlocks/sorcerer types aren't direct damage masters. They're best at crowd control effects. Especially when you have minions to deal the damage. Have a succubus summoned and waiting in the ethereal plane, who will then Charm the group Barbarian/Fighter/whatever, and have them turn on their friends. Wall and Fly spells are very good, because then you can't actually reach the mage. Always keep a Misty Step and Shield in your pocket- eff getting caught up in melee.
Direct damage is generally the least useful thing a mage can do to contribute to a combat. Lockdown the enemy is the name of the game.
Melee mage? Are you thinking Hexblade, Bladesinger, or Giant Soul? In the case of a Bladesinger, that can be a very frustrating fight if you properly prepare with things like Haste, Mirror Image, and the like; bladesingers don't get hit. Giant Souls grow really large, get large HP pools, and then can smack or grapple people when they're large; depending on the type of giant, you can even get some very nice spells to distract the party. Hexblade... well, I would mix hexblade and fiend, then cover the hexblade in things like Armor of Agathys and fire shield and play the "every time you hit me, you take massive damage back" game. Use Hexes to teleport around the field and stab the back row people first.
Why does your Necromancer not having Animate Dead? Why doesn't s/he have significant slots dedicated to his undead horde?
As Mephista said you have ALL blaster casters. Which while Wizards have low HP, aside from the monk/rogue even a Barbarian can't stand up to 4 fireballs a turn!
I would say do something different with the 4th. Make an Abjurationist. Svirfneblin are amazing at it because Svirfneblin Magic Feat gets then Nondetect at will which heals 6hp on the Arcane Shield, plus blindness/deafness and blur once a day.
You have lots of DPS spells, but you don't really have anything that alters the battlefield, messes with movement, etc...
Speaking of that, but Thunderwave on the Melee Caster. It's an amazing spell that can shove half the party in a single casting.
Also.... these wizards have 90% Blaster Casters. How do they plan on escaping?
As everyone else here has pointed out: Spell casters are the most tactically minded standard class out there, play that up. I had a Drow Sorcerer who I played all the way up to epic levels and it wasn't because I could blast my way out of everything. About 1/3 of my spells were damage spells, that's all I needed. The rest of the spells were the type that made it almost impossible to get to me or my party.
Imagine, if you will, that there is a group of people intent on making you dead. The first thing you do is cast Fireball to crush any of the weaker opponents. Then, as you finish your turn you tell the group to stay at ranged for a moment longer. You charge up those massive arcane energies and cast Hypnotic Pattern to incapacitate and stop as much of the group as possible, allowing your group to close ranks on them. In just two spells you've taken away a large chunk of health from a good number of the opponents and then made the remaining potential punching bags for your party. You then walk casually toward the fray and drop....Sleep. That simple combination of spells has made more DMs rage quit battles I've been in than anything else and all beginning at the low level of 5.
Another fun tactic is to use your Transmute Rock to lock opponents into stone, however before you do that you Earth Tremor to give you some help, and finish it off with Erupting Earth. The battlefield is a nasty place, it's even more nasty when the enemy knows how to use it to their advantage, it's the absolute worst when the enemy can make it work for them.
Thanks everyone for the input! To address a few questions:
-Party is level 7-8; depending on the night we could have anywhere from 3 to 6 PCs. Adventure is geared for 4-5 level 5 players at this stage, so they are a bit ahead.
-Part of my reason for asking is that I'm not particularly tactically minded, especially not when it comes to casters
-encounter(s) with the mages will be in an ancient, ruined city precise location is currently up for grabs
I'm very open to changing up spells to create a better balance, and to upgrading the thugs; more suggestions are welcome. I want to be able to go into combat with notes about each mage's tactics, so I have a game plan to start with. It's too easy for me to get paralyzed with all the spell choices.
Trying to Decide if DDB is for you? A few helpful threads: A Buyer's Guide to DDB; What I/We Bought and Why; How some DMs use DDB; A Newer Thread on Using DDB to Play
Helpful threads on other topics: Homebrew FAQ by IamSposta; Accessing Content by ConalTheGreat;
Check your entitlements here. | Support Ticket LInk
You have 4 mages, so choose 4 different focuses on what they provide for combat:
Necro: manipulate the dead, attack the minds of the opponents, and be rather difficult to pin down.
Mage 2: Battlefield control, terrain manipulation, defensive spells
Mage 3: Creature control, mind affecting spells, ways to turn opponents into (at the least) temporary assets, high mobility
Mage 4: Summons, buffing, damage spells, and being hard to find
Thugs are easy enough to give them support via the mages, have them paired with a mage and accent the mage they're with or fill in where the mage is weakest. Mix and match ranged and melee thugs, use them to fill in gaps, harass the enemy, and protect the back line.
Bigby's Hand is a great choice for an evocation-focused wizard because it offers several different tactical options to the caster, letting them choose what's best for the particular situation. For the melee-focused mage, using greater invisibility and nondetection will give them constant advantage in combat until someone figures out a way to get rid of the invisibility. It's particularly potent when used in conjunction with steel wind strike early in the combat, because all of the steel wind strike attacks will very likely be made with advantage. Note, too, that nondetection lasts for 8 hours, so it can be precast. To understand why nondetection is so powerful in this context: https://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/11/16/does-nondetection-plus-invisibility-beat-true-seeing/