Alright so for my next campaign I'm trying to make a character that's main combat ability is the cantrip Magic Stone this is thru a homebrew item meaning the character can be any class and the spell casting stat will be wisdom or charisma based on which is higher if they don't have one already.
Unlike other cantrip, magic stone doesn’t scale as you level, so you’ll need some way to boost damage or you’ll not be very useful. I’d go rogue, since sneak attack applies to any kind of attack, not just weapon attacks. Variant human to take magic initiate at level 1, and there you go. The stones basically act as a vehicle for your sneak attack damage.
I’d go rogue, since sneak attack applies to any kind of attack, not just weapon attacks.
This is patently false. "Once per turn, you can deal an extra 1d6 damage to one creature you hit with an attack if you have advantage on the attack roll. The attack must use a finesse or a ranged weapon."
I’d go rogue, since sneak attack applies to any kind of attack, not just weapon attacks.
This is patently false. "Once per turn, you can deal an extra 1d6 damage to one creature you hit with an attack if you have advantage on the attack roll. The attack must use a finesse or a ranged weapon."
Yes, but it still also applies to Magic Stone when used with a sling. It would count as a “ranged spell attack using a ranged weapon.” It would also be affected by Sharpshooter as well.
If I wanted to do a Magic Stone build I would also do a Rogue.
Yeah, the recent analysis showing that Sneak Attack and even Sharpshooter can apply to Magic Stone attacks made "with" a Sling, and that throwing a Magic Stone (not casting the spell) is an attack which might be performed multiple times with one action if you have Extra Attack.... the possibilities have really opened up! Off the top of my head, a Sling+Shield using Battlemaster, with Crossbow Expert to be able to use ranged attacks in melee with no penalty, with Sharpshooter, and maybe some splash levels in rogue for Sneak Attack?
My personal Fave is Hexblade warlock Magic stone user. Multi class into rogue and you got yourself one scary stone thrower. You can throw them and it should still count as a ranged weapon attack using your Charisma. You could also just stay Hexblade since your curse scales with Proficiency, plus Hex, plus you can go pact of the Blade getting the Improved Pact Weapon Invocation so that you can summon a sling that has +1 at level three. Get sharp shooter and Crossbow Expert, a shield, and armor according to your stats (heavy for str and medium for dex) and you are good to go. Since you don't get many spell slots you can focus on using the stone or even a long bow later if you're not feeling the stone anymore and want an extra 2 damage possibility. Personally, I like going Hexblade Warlock for the first 5 levels and then start rogue. Give the character the criminal/spy background and you will be able to do some rogue like things that will back progress into becoming a rogue. Going human variant with the magic initiate feat with Artificer is decent too, since you'll get access to Guidance and sanctuary as a rogue, and having high intelligence will help with your investigation skill if you choose to be a trap detector. Don't forget the added benefits of using the Skulker Feat as well.
Shields usually don’t go well with weapons that have the ammunition property. You need a free hand to draw the ammo, even with a one handed weapon.
A lot of people use slings one handed. Have you ever used one? You can hold the ammo in the same hand you use the sling, you can also put ammo into with one hand.
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Shields usually don’t go well with weapons that have the ammunition property. You need a free hand to draw the ammo, even with a one handed weapon.
A lot of people use slings one handed. Have you ever used one? You can hold the ammo in the same hand you use the sling, you can also put ammo into with one hand.
Ammunition. You can use a weapon that has the ammunition property to make a ranged attack only if you have ammunition to fire from the weapon. Each time you attack with the weapon, you expend one piece of ammunition. Drawing the ammunition from a quiver, case, or other container is part of the attack (you need a free hand to load a one-handed weapon). At the end of the battle, you can recover half your expended ammunition by taking a minute to search the battlefield.
If you use a weapon that has the ammunition property to make a melee attack, you treat the weapon as an improvised weapon (see "Improvised Weapons" later in the section). A sling must be loaded to deal any damage when used in this way.
Yes, I overlooked that. Still, could sit comfortably at AC 18 without a shield, so nbd. Heck, that leaves a hand open for Tavern Brawler, to punch and grapple on any rounds you don’t have a stone handy , what a weird build :)
What does that get you... a d4 on each attack action as a bonus (conflicts with casting MS) and... ooh, the +2 AC back again! And hey, Mimic said Magic Stone will be Wisdom based for them, so even better!
Archery fighting style applies to MS Sling attacks too, so that’s cool (attacks “with ranged weapons,” not “ranged weapon attacks”).
Hunter has some synergy as well... of the three Lvl 3 choices, only Giant Slayer will actually work with stones (the other two require “weapon attacks”), but Volley could work at 11! Then again, MS doesn’t really let you enchant enough ammunition at a time to take full advantage ... which is actually a good reason to be cautious about building for too many Extra Attacks as well, no point doing full Fighter progression or achieve more than three attacks/round...
Fighter (Battlemaster) 17/Monk (Kensai) 3 bumping Dex and Wisdom would be my recommendation, with Sharpshooter, Martial Adept, Archery fighting style, and possibly Crossbow Expert and Tavern Brawler if you want to be in melee. Just don’t expect that Action Surge will let you do lots of MS attacks, because you’ll only have three stones to cast per Bonus Action. Or, could drop six levels of Fighter for six more Kensai, or for six levels of Rogue (none of the subclasses do much for you).
Shields usually don’t go well with weapons that have the ammunition property. You need a free hand to draw the ammo, even with a one handed weapon.
A lot of people use slings one handed. Have you ever used one? You can hold the ammo in the same hand you use the sling, you can also put ammo into with one hand.
Ammunition. You can use a weapon that has the ammunition property to make a ranged attack only if you have ammunition to fire from the weapon. Each time you attack with the weapon, you expend one piece of ammunition. Drawing the ammunition from a quiver, case, or other container is part of the attack (you need a free hand to load a one-handed weapon). At the end of the battle, you can recover half your expended ammunition by taking a minute to search the battlefield.
If you use a weapon that has the ammunition property to make a melee attack, you treat the weapon as an improvised weapon (see "Improvised Weapons" later in the section). A sling must be loaded to deal any damage when used in this way.
Ugh, you're right. I never liked that rule when it came to the sling, but I'm sure game simplification is the reason for this.
If you are a ranged character then I guess you're not as worried about getting hit so no shield. Sad face. Imagine if there was a shield that left your hand free or something. If only there was some way to strap a shield to like, Idk, your fore arm or something. I'm gonna have to do some digging on this one.
Maybe +1 AC and -1 on attack rolls with the weapon in the shield hand, or you know, just let that hand hold some rocks. Homebrew OFC
That's something I've found annoying about D&D. There is only one shield. As an example, here are two shields they could easily add: A small shield that straps to your arm. It only gives +1 AC but leaves that hand open (and likely gives -1 or so to attack rolls with that hand). A tower shield that gives +3 (or even +4) ac but reduces your movement by 5ft or so.
Yes, you could make magic shields that give extra properties, but a couple more common shield options would be nice.
Not to make this thread about Shields or anything, but a arm buckler of sorts would really help a slinger.
Technically those never really existed in history.
You're kidding me right? In history? Never existed? I feel that's a bit too extreme
Some pretty cool Bucklers have been made back in the day, this is an example of one. Hooks and various rings on 16th-century English shields, found by archaeologists and exhibited at the Wallace Collection Museum, are partly proof of this. According to the 19th-century German archeologist Wendalen Behheim (“Encyclopedia of Arms”), bucklers were common in the English army until the beginning of the 17th century, and the modernization of the army and weapons did not pass them by. Behheim notes that some English-style ombons were sometimes equipped with a "shooting device": a wheel lock was placed inside the shield so that a short barrel protruded from the center.
This is an extreme example but an example of the fact that there are shields that no only keep a free hand open but also add a lot of elements to it. This and other more simple hand free shields were a part of "history" and did in fact, exist.
Not to make this thread about Shields or anything, but a arm buckler of sorts would really help a slinger.
Technically those never really existed in history.
You're kidding me right? In history? Never existed? I feel that's a bit too extreme
Some pretty cool Bucklers have been made back in the day, this is an example of one. Hooks and various rings on 16th-century English shields, found by archaeologists and exhibited at the Wallace Collection Museum, are partly proof of this. According to the 19th-century German archeologist Wendalen Behheim (“Encyclopedia of Arms”), bucklers were common in the English army until the beginning of the 17th century, and the modernization of the army and weapons did not pass them by. Behheim notes that some English-style ombons were sometimes equipped with a "shooting device": a wheel lock was placed inside the shield so that a short barrel protruded from the center.
This is an extreme example but an example of the fact that there are shields that no only keep a free hand open but also add a lot of elements to it. This and other more simple hand free shields were a part of "history" and did in fact, exist.
That is not a “buckler,” that is a lantern shield.
Alright so for my next campaign I'm trying to make a character that's main combat ability is the cantrip Magic Stone this is thru a homebrew item meaning the character can be any class and the spell casting stat will be wisdom or charisma based on which is higher if they don't have one already.
Unlike other cantrip, magic stone doesn’t scale as you level, so you’ll need some way to boost damage or you’ll not be very useful. I’d go rogue, since sneak attack applies to any kind of attack, not just weapon attacks. Variant human to take magic initiate at level 1, and there you go. The stones basically act as a vehicle for your sneak attack damage.
This is patently false. "Once per turn, you can deal an extra 1d6 damage to one creature you hit with an attack if you have advantage on the attack roll. The attack must use a finesse or a ranged weapon."
Yes, but it still also applies to Magic Stone when used with a sling. It would count as a “ranged spell attack using a ranged weapon.” It would also be affected by Sharpshooter as well.
If I wanted to do a Magic Stone build I would also do a Rogue.
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Yeah, the recent analysis showing that Sneak Attack and even Sharpshooter can apply to Magic Stone attacks made "with" a Sling, and that throwing a Magic Stone (not casting the spell) is an attack which might be performed multiple times with one action if you have Extra Attack.... the possibilities have really opened up! Off the top of my head, a Sling+Shield using Battlemaster, with Crossbow Expert to be able to use ranged attacks in melee with no penalty, with Sharpshooter, and maybe some splash levels in rogue for Sneak Attack?
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
My personal Fave is Hexblade warlock Magic stone user. Multi class into rogue and you got yourself one scary stone thrower. You can throw them and it should still count as a ranged weapon attack using your Charisma. You could also just stay Hexblade since your curse scales with Proficiency, plus Hex, plus you can go pact of the Blade getting the Improved Pact Weapon Invocation so that you can summon a sling that has +1 at level three. Get sharp shooter and Crossbow Expert, a shield, and armor according to your stats (heavy for str and medium for dex) and you are good to go. Since you don't get many spell slots you can focus on using the stone or even a long bow later if you're not feeling the stone anymore and want an extra 2 damage possibility. Personally, I like going Hexblade Warlock for the first 5 levels and then start rogue. Give the character the criminal/spy background and you will be able to do some rogue like things that will back progress into becoming a rogue. Going human variant with the magic initiate feat with Artificer is decent too, since you'll get access to Guidance and sanctuary as a rogue, and having high intelligence will help with your investigation skill if you choose to be a trap detector. Don't forget the added benefits of using the Skulker Feat as well.
Drow enthusiast
Lover of lore and magic.
-The White Crow-
Shields usually don’t go well with weapons that have the ammunition property. You need a free hand to draw the ammo, even with a one handed weapon.
A lot of people use slings one handed. Have you ever used one? You can hold the ammo in the same hand you use the sling, you can also put ammo into with one hand.
Drow enthusiast
Lover of lore and magic.
-The White Crow-
Ammunition. You can use a weapon that has the ammunition property to make a ranged attack only if you have ammunition to fire from the weapon. Each time you attack with the weapon, you expend one piece of ammunition. Drawing the ammunition from a quiver, case, or other container is part of the attack (you need a free hand to load a one-handed weapon). At the end of the battle, you can recover half your expended ammunition by taking a minute to search the battlefield.
If you use a weapon that has the ammunition property to make a melee attack, you treat the weapon as an improvised weapon (see "Improvised Weapons" later in the section). A sling must be loaded to deal any damage when used in this way.
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Yes, I overlooked that. Still, could sit comfortably at AC 18 without a shield, so nbd. Heck, that leaves a hand open for Tavern Brawler, to punch and grapple on any rounds you don’t have a stone handy , what a weird build :)
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
You could even dip Monk 3 levels for Kensei.
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What does that get you... a d4 on each attack action as a bonus (conflicts with casting MS) and... ooh, the +2 AC back again! And hey, Mimic said Magic Stone will be Wisdom based for them, so even better!
Archery fighting style applies to MS Sling attacks too, so that’s cool (attacks “with ranged weapons,” not “ranged weapon attacks”).
Hunter has some synergy as well... of the three Lvl 3 choices, only Giant Slayer will actually work with stones (the other two require “weapon attacks”), but Volley could work at 11! Then again, MS doesn’t really let you enchant enough ammunition at a time to take full advantage ... which is actually a good reason to be cautious about building for too many Extra Attacks as well, no point doing full Fighter progression or achieve more than three attacks/round...
Fighter (Battlemaster) 17/Monk (Kensai) 3 bumping Dex and Wisdom would be my recommendation, with Sharpshooter, Martial Adept, Archery fighting style, and possibly Crossbow Expert and Tavern Brawler if you want to be in melee. Just don’t expect that Action Surge will let you do lots of MS attacks, because you’ll only have three stones to cast per Bonus Action. Or, could drop six levels of Fighter for six more Kensai, or for six levels of Rogue (none of the subclasses do much for you).
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Plus it saves you not having to spend the ASI in Tavern Brawler too.
And Magic Stone creates 3 stones, so you only have to cast it every three turns.
And if you’re going Ranged Rogue for it anyway, you’re gonna need Perception which means Wis anyway.
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Ugh, you're right. I never liked that rule when it came to the sling, but I'm sure game simplification is the reason for this.
If you are a ranged character then I guess you're not as worried about getting hit so no shield. Sad face. Imagine if there was a shield that left your hand free or something. If only there was some way to strap a shield to like, Idk, your fore arm or something. I'm gonna have to do some digging on this one.
Drow enthusiast
Lover of lore and magic.
-The White Crow-
That's something I've found annoying about D&D. There is only one shield. As an example, here are two shields they could easily add:
A small shield that straps to your arm. It only gives +1 AC but leaves that hand open (and likely gives -1 or so to attack rolls with that hand).
A tower shield that gives +3 (or even +4) ac but reduces your movement by 5ft or so.
Yes, you could make magic shields that give extra properties, but a couple more common shield options would be nice.
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Not to make this thread about Shields or anything, but a arm buckler of sorts would really help a slinger.
Drow enthusiast
Lover of lore and magic.
-The White Crow-
Technically those never really existed in history.
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You're kidding me right? In history? Never existed? I feel that's a bit too extreme
Some pretty cool Bucklers have been made back in the day, this is an example of one.
Hooks and various rings on 16th-century English shields, found by archaeologists and exhibited at the Wallace Collection Museum, are partly proof of this. According to the 19th-century German archeologist Wendalen Behheim (“Encyclopedia of Arms”), bucklers were common in the English army until the beginning of the 17th century, and the modernization of the army and weapons did not pass them by. Behheim notes that some English-style ombons were sometimes equipped with a "shooting device": a wheel lock was placed inside the shield so that a short barrel protruded from the center.
This is an extreme example but an example of the fact that there are shields that no only keep a free hand open but also add a lot of elements to it. This and other more simple hand free shields were a part of "history" and did in fact, exist.
Drow enthusiast
Lover of lore and magic.
-The White Crow-
History is overrated. An armored sling/buckler combo, like pelota/jai alai, would be a pretty dope weapon :)
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
That is not a “buckler,” that is a lantern shield.
This is a Buckler:
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