Other than the obvious of hiding a weapon in a situation where you shouldn't have a weapon, anyone have any creative uses for the ability to dismiss and summon your pact weapon?
I feel like it's a pretty unutilized tool for shennanigans.
For me it's more 'potential' - a given situation (and a GM who is flexible) may provide an opportunity. For example, yesterday in a game session our group was attacked by several swarms of insects. I dismissed my usual weapon and used my action to create a torch. Since I'm not proficient with improvised weapons I didn't hit much, but since I have Improved Pact Weapon I had an extra +1 to hit and did 2 points of fire damage when I did hit with it. If nothing else, it was more fun than swinging a sword at a swarm of insects.
For me it's more 'potential' - a given situation (and a GM who is flexible) may provide an opportunity. For example, yesterday in a game session our group was attacked by several swarms of insects. I dismissed my usual weapon and used my action to create a torch. Since I'm not proficient with improvised weapons I didn't hit much, but since I have Improved Pact Weapon I had an extra +1 to hit and did 2 points of fire damage when I did hit with it. If nothing else, it was more fun than swinging a sword at a swarm of insects.
Fun fact, you are proficient with any pact weapons.
Fun fact, you are proficient with any pact weapons.
Our group isn't so sure. We talked about that when I said I wanted to try it. The Pact of the Blade rule says:
"You can choose the form that this melee weapon takes"
And 'improvised' weapons don't seem to be defined as melee weapons unless they actually closely resemble such:
"Often, an improvised weapon is similar to an actual weapon and can be treated as such. For example, a table leg is akin to a club. At the DM's option, a character proficient with a weapon can use a similar object as if it were that weapon and use his or her proficiency bonus."
So this implies an improvised weapon is not an 'actual weapon', unless it more or less is. And we decided a torch is not similar enough to a club to be treated as a club.
Even though we decided I would not be proficient, I'm actually good with that. We have two other characters in our group who took the Tavern Brawler feat in part to be able to engage in 'good old fashion' tavern brawls - our campaign has a strong seafaring flavor - and if my warlock could suddenly be proficiency with broken bottles and such it would seem to 'step on' their characters' concepts.
Fair if that's your groups ruling :-) that ruling would open up the can of worms "can you conjure improvised weapons if they don't count as mele weapons?" In my group.
As an action, you can create a pact weapon in your hand (you choose the form, you're proficient with it, and it counts as magical). You can also transform a magic weapon into your pact weapon by performing a special ritual.
The wording could not be clearer. You are proficient in any weapon you summon. Summon a brassiere and use it as a sling, its then magical and you are proficient in it. Summon a giants nutsack and use it as bolas, its then magical and you are proficient with it/them.
But if you guys made a houserule everyone agrees with thats of course quite ok, as well as a DM reconfiguring the rules to fit your campaign at his discretion. The game is not set in stone, but as far as the RAW reads you are proficient in it as long as you summon it as a pact weapon.
As an action, you can create a pact weapon in your hand (you choose the form, you're proficient with it, and it counts as magical). You can also transform a magic weapon into your pact weapon by performing a special ritual.
The wording could not be clearer. You are proficient in any weapon you summon. Summon a brassiere and use it as a sling, its then magical and you are proficient in it. Summon a giants nutsack and use it as bolas, its then magical and you are proficient with it/them.
That is NOT what the rule says. It says (and I quote):
"You can choose the form that this melee weapon takes each time you create it (see the Weapons section for weapon options)."
What you wrote is not what the rule says, so you can't claim "The wording could not be clearer."
You can use your action to create a pact weapon in your empty hand. You can choose the form that this melee weapon takes each time you create it (see the Weapons section for weapon options). You are proficient with it while you wield it. This weapon counts as magical for the purpose of overcoming resistance and immunity to nonmagical attacks and damage.
What is clear from the text is if you can create something as a Pact weapon you are proficient in it, what is less clear is what is classed as a melee weapon as that is all you can create.
Chapter 5 does mention improvised weapons and also that you can make a melee attack with a torch. So my interpretation of RAW would be you can create a pact torch (defining a melee weapon is a weapon, including improvised weapons that can make melee attacks) and you would be proficient in it.
The difficulty would come if it is used where saying it is an improvised weapon just so you can create it. For example you create a torch as a "pact weapon" but only intend to use it to cast light (saves the weight of regular torches).
As others have said if you want to house rule that you are not proficient with a torch there is no problem with that.
Chapter 5 does mention improvised weapons and also that you can make a melee attack with a torch. So my interpretation of RAW would be you can create a pact torch (defining a melee weapon is a weapon, including improvised weapons that can make melee attacks) and you would be proficient in it.
...
As others have said if you want to house rule that you are not proficient with a torch there is no problem with that.
And this is where we disagree. We're not making a 'house rule that you are not proficient with a torch'. We're comparing to the rules for improvised weapons and they say the following:
"Often, an improvised weapon is similar to an actual weapon and can be treated as such. For example, a table leg is akin to a club. At the DM's option, a character proficient with a weapon can use a similar object as if it were that weapon and use his or her proficiency bonus."
So our interpretation is different from your interpretation. We're not 'making a house rule' because it's not a house rule. It's an interpretation.
What we did "house rule" (informally), was that I could actually create a torch with pact of the blade to use as an improvised weapon.
Having allowed that 'house rule', since a torch does not match a weapon from the weapon table, and I'm not otherwise proficiency with improvised weapons, our interpretation of improvised weapons was that I was not proficient with it.
But the text says you are proficient with your pact weapon while you wield it. If you create a great sword as a pact weapon you are proficient while you wield it, if if you are not proficient with great swords normally. The same applies to a torch if it is your pact weapon you are proficient with it.
The text says you create a melee weapon, a torch is not a melee weapon, and it links to the Weapons section for the list of weapons which does not list a torch.
An improvised weapon is not a weapon. You cannot create an improvised weapon.
The homebrew rule used here is that Cratex summoned a torch when the Pact Weapon feature would not allow them to do so at all. So, yes, Cratex is using a homebrew rule to summon the torch, and because it is a homebrew they decide whether you get proficiency or not - because the fact they summoned a torch at all is homebrew in and of itself. It seems their homebrew rule is since it's not a weapon, the pact weapon proficiency is only granted if they would normally have proficiency with what they summoned. This IS a homebrew, Cratex, because the Pact Weapon features gives you proficiency with whatever you summon even if you are not normally proficient with it. However, your homebrew is better than allowing proficiency to balance the expansion you are making to the feature with the homebrew rule of summoning whatever you want.
Personally, as a DM I would not allow this homebrew rule due to the precedent it sets. Now that Cratex can summon torches as a weapon, this means they can use a torch whenever they need to light an area or set fire to something. You can say "but only for weapon purposes" but that's a convaluted thing to RP. It's a slippery slope. But, I'm not their DM.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond. Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ thisFAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
As an action, you can create a pact weapon in your hand (you choose the form, you're proficient with it, and it counts as magical). You can also transform a magic weapon into your pact weapon by performing a special ritual.
The wording could not be clearer. You are proficient in any weapon you summon. Summon a brassiere and use it as a sling, its then magical and you are proficient in it. Summon a giants nutsack and use it as bolas, its then magical and you are proficient with it/them.
That is NOT what the rule says. It says (and I quote):
"You can choose the form that this melee weapon takes each time you create it (see the Weapons section for weapon options)."
What you wrote is not what the rule says, so you can't claim "The wording could not be clearer."
Mine IS quoted directly from my Bladelock characters character sheet here on this site, so yes, this is what the rule says, like it or not.
Generally, my character doesn't dismiss pact weapon. He tosses it away and summons a new one. Like, he once tossed his Pact bow over a ledge. An NPC saw it go over the ledge. While no one was looking, he summoned a rapier and sheathed it for no particular reason. He's just a little weird.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
DM: Are you sure?
Wizard: Yes. I cast the Wish spell and I wish that everybody loves me!
DM: You transform into an irresistible, magnificent feast. It was so great, all who participated in devouring you tell of the joy they felt with tears in their eyes and all who hear the tale only feel sorrow that they weren't there to eat.
Since my PC's pact weapon is more important to her than her own life (it was her first contact with her patron, and she's beholden to it, in her mind) she rarely dismisses it. She usually sits - in a dark corner, preferably - and whispers to it.
For intimidation purposes, she has dismissed her sword from one hand, conjured it in the other, and repeated that a couple times. Then placed her fists at either side of a target's head and asked if they felt lucky. And kind of strained like it was hard for her to keep the sword from returning to her hand.
Another time, she was grappled from behind, she dismissed the sword, and then twisted her wrist slightly so it was pointed back at the enemy, and (next round) conjured it directly into the beast. (had to roll to hit, of course...)
For intimidation purposes, she has dismissed her sword from one hand, conjured it in the other, and repeated that a couple times. Then placed her fists at either side of a target's head and asked if they felt lucky. And kind of strained like it was hard for her to keep the sword from returning to her hand.
Another time, she was grappled from behind, she dismissed the sword, and then twisted her wrist slightly so it was pointed back at the enemy, and (next round) conjured it directly into the beast. (had to roll to hit, of course...)
I never thought of these uses. Clever, I'll remember that for roleplaying.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"A river cuts through rock, not because of its power, but because of its persistence."
Have the weapon wedge something like a boulder up. Lure some enemies under the boulder. Summon the weapon to distract them. Rocks fall and everyone dies (but the players).
My pact weapon is a firearm. I dismissed it so I could safely navigate water and swim without soiling the action. I also keep it dismissed whenever I sleep so that it cannot be stolen or used on me in my sleep.
Is it possible to have a magical weapon as a pact weapon, let's say a dancing greatsword, and then dismiss it. Could you then summon another type of weapon, for example a mace, without "loosing" the dancing greatsword? I always thought that if you made a magical weapon your pact weapon then summon another weapon as a pact weapon the magical weapon would "reappear" on the ground no longer being your pact weapon. Is it possible to switch between regular weapons and the dancing greatsword? Are my ramblings understandable? :)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"A river cuts through rock, not because of its power, but because of its persistence."
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Other than the obvious of hiding a weapon in a situation where you shouldn't have a weapon, anyone have any creative uses for the ability to dismiss and summon your pact weapon?
I feel like it's a pretty unutilized tool for shennanigans.
It's not as useful as the Eldritch Knight, since it takes a full action for a Blade Pact Warlock to summon or dismiss his Pact Weapon.
For me it's more 'potential' - a given situation (and a GM who is flexible) may provide an opportunity. For example, yesterday in a game session our group was attacked by several swarms of insects. I dismissed my usual weapon and used my action to create a torch. Since I'm not proficient with improvised weapons I didn't hit much, but since I have Improved Pact Weapon I had an extra +1 to hit and did 2 points of fire damage when I did hit with it. If nothing else, it was more fun than swinging a sword at a swarm of insects.
Fun fact, you are proficient with any pact weapons.
Our group isn't so sure. We talked about that when I said I wanted to try it. The Pact of the Blade rule says:
"You can choose the form that this melee weapon takes"
And 'improvised' weapons don't seem to be defined as melee weapons unless they actually closely resemble such:
"Often, an improvised weapon is similar to an actual weapon and can be treated as such. For example, a table leg is akin to a club. At the DM's option, a character proficient with a weapon can use a similar object as if it were that weapon and use his or her proficiency bonus."
So this implies an improvised weapon is not an 'actual weapon', unless it more or less is. And we decided a torch is not similar enough to a club to be treated as a club.
Even though we decided I would not be proficient, I'm actually good with that. We have two other characters in our group who took the Tavern Brawler feat in part to be able to engage in 'good old fashion' tavern brawls - our campaign has a strong seafaring flavor - and if my warlock could suddenly be proficiency with broken bottles and such it would seem to 'step on' their characters' concepts.
Fair if that's your groups ruling :-) that ruling would open up the can of worms "can you conjure improvised weapons if they don't count as mele weapons?" In my group.
The wording could not be clearer. You are proficient in any weapon you summon. Summon a brassiere and use it as a sling, its then magical and you are proficient in it. Summon a giants nutsack and use it as bolas, its then magical and you are proficient with it/them.
But if you guys made a houserule everyone agrees with thats of course quite ok, as well as a DM reconfiguring the rules to fit your campaign at his discretion. The game is not set in stone, but as far as the RAW reads you are proficient in it as long as you summon it as a pact weapon.
That is NOT what the rule says. It says (and I quote):
"You can choose the form that this melee weapon takes each time you create it (see the Weapons section for weapon options)."
What you wrote is not what the rule says, so you can't claim "The wording could not be clearer."
Here is the full text
You can use your action to create a pact weapon in your empty hand. You can choose the form that this melee weapon takes each time you create it (see the Weapons section for weapon options). You are proficient with it while you wield it. This weapon counts as magical for the purpose of overcoming resistance and immunity to nonmagical attacks and damage.
What is clear from the text is if you can create something as a Pact weapon you are proficient in it, what is less clear is what is classed as a melee weapon as that is all you can create.
Chapter 5 does mention improvised weapons and also that you can make a melee attack with a torch. So my interpretation of RAW would be you can create a pact torch (defining a melee weapon is a weapon, including improvised weapons that can make melee attacks) and you would be proficient in it.
The difficulty would come if it is used where saying it is an improvised weapon just so you can create it. For example you create a torch as a "pact weapon" but only intend to use it to cast light (saves the weight of regular torches).
As others have said if you want to house rule that you are not proficient with a torch there is no problem with that.
And this is where we disagree. We're not making a 'house rule that you are not proficient with a torch'. We're comparing to the rules for improvised weapons and they say the following:
"Often, an improvised weapon is similar to an actual weapon and can be treated as such. For example, a table leg is akin to a club. At the DM's option, a character proficient with a weapon can use a similar object as if it were that weapon and use his or her proficiency bonus."
So our interpretation is different from your interpretation. We're not 'making a house rule' because it's not a house rule. It's an interpretation.
What we did "house rule" (informally), was that I could actually create a torch with pact of the blade to use as an improvised weapon.
Having allowed that 'house rule', since a torch does not match a weapon from the weapon table, and I'm not otherwise proficiency with improvised weapons, our interpretation of improvised weapons was that I was not proficient with it.
But the text says you are proficient with your pact weapon while you wield it. If you create a great sword as a pact weapon you are proficient while you wield it, if if you are not proficient with great swords normally. The same applies to a torch if it is your pact weapon you are proficient with it.
The text says you create a melee weapon, a torch is not a melee weapon, and it links to the Weapons section for the list of weapons which does not list a torch.
An improvised weapon is not a weapon. You cannot create an improvised weapon.
The homebrew rule used here is that Cratex summoned a torch when the Pact Weapon feature would not allow them to do so at all. So, yes, Cratex is using a homebrew rule to summon the torch, and because it is a homebrew they decide whether you get proficiency or not - because the fact they summoned a torch at all is homebrew in and of itself. It seems their homebrew rule is since it's not a weapon, the pact weapon proficiency is only granted if they would normally have proficiency with what they summoned. This IS a homebrew, Cratex, because the Pact Weapon features gives you proficiency with whatever you summon even if you are not normally proficient with it. However, your homebrew is better than allowing proficiency to balance the expansion you are making to the feature with the homebrew rule of summoning whatever you want.
Personally, as a DM I would not allow this homebrew rule due to the precedent it sets. Now that Cratex can summon torches as a weapon, this means they can use a torch whenever they need to light an area or set fire to something. You can say "but only for weapon purposes" but that's a convaluted thing to RP. It's a slippery slope. But, I'm not their DM.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
Mine IS quoted directly from my Bladelock characters character sheet here on this site, so yes, this is what the rule says, like it or not.
Here it is, go to Features and Traits to see.
Edit: added the link
Edit2: added the picture.
Wow....
This board went way off the tracks...
Generally, my character doesn't dismiss pact weapon. He tosses it away and summons a new one. Like, he once tossed his Pact bow over a ledge. An NPC saw it go over the ledge. While no one was looking, he summoned a rapier and sheathed it for no particular reason. He's just a little weird.
DM: Are you sure?
Wizard: Yes. I cast the Wish spell and I wish that everybody loves me!
DM: You transform into an irresistible, magnificent feast. It was so great, all who participated in devouring you tell of the joy they felt with tears in their eyes and all who hear the tale only feel sorrow that they weren't there to eat.
Since my PC's pact weapon is more important to her than her own life (it was her first contact with her patron, and she's beholden to it, in her mind) she rarely dismisses it. She usually sits - in a dark corner, preferably - and whispers to it.
For intimidation purposes, she has dismissed her sword from one hand, conjured it in the other, and repeated that a couple times. Then placed her fists at either side of a target's head and asked if they felt lucky. And kind of strained like it was hard for her to keep the sword from returning to her hand.
Another time, she was grappled from behind, she dismissed the sword, and then twisted her wrist slightly so it was pointed back at the enemy, and (next round) conjured it directly into the beast. (had to roll to hit, of course...)
I never thought of these uses. Clever, I'll remember that for roleplaying.
"A river cuts through rock, not because of its power, but because of its persistence."
Have the weapon wedge something like a boulder up. Lure some enemies under the boulder. Summon the weapon to distract them. Rocks fall and everyone dies (but the players).
Also known as CrafterB and DankMemer.
Here, have some homebrew classes! Subclasses to? Why not races. Feats, feats as well. I have a lot of magic items. Lastly I got monsters, fun, fun times.
1. Sell the magical weapon to a merchant.
2. Walk away.
3. Dismiss the weapon.
4. Profit.
My pact weapon is a firearm. I dismissed it so I could safely navigate water and swim without soiling the action. I also keep it dismissed whenever I sleep so that it cannot be stolen or used on me in my sleep.
Is it possible to have a magical weapon as a pact weapon, let's say a dancing greatsword, and then dismiss it. Could you then summon another type of weapon, for example a mace, without "loosing" the dancing greatsword?
I always thought that if you made a magical weapon your pact weapon then summon another weapon as a pact weapon the magical weapon would "reappear" on the ground no longer being your pact weapon. Is it possible to switch between regular weapons and the dancing greatsword? Are my ramblings understandable? :)
"A river cuts through rock, not because of its power, but because of its persistence."