Hey guys sorry if this isn't the place but I'm running a game and there's a big battle coming and as the players win I was going to give each a powerful boon from the gods, as the title suggests I'm considering giving my wizard player all the spells in their class similar to cleric's.
I know this can be controversial but I just wanted some feedback. Thanks!
Wizards have the best spell list bar none and part of their flavour is their quest for knowledge.
If you're willing to lose that questing aspect to the character go ahead as usually the optimal choices are pretty cut and dry at each level but you'll be giving that character the equivalent of hundreds of thousands of gold that they can continue to milk by scribing later and versatility that steps on almost every other classes abilities
Essentially you're giving them the equivalent of an artifact once people know that one character knows all the spells they will have no rest for the rest of their days
Do you have another healer or support caster in the party? If so, it may feel like they might not be needed anymore, since the wizard can just do it now. I'd say you might be better off giving a boon related to the Wizard's specific tradition they chose, rather than giving them all-new spells, and you'd only be able to take one or two of them.
Plus, if the wizard really wanted them, they could just take a one level multiclass into cleric to get the spells.
Plus, if the wizard really wanted them, they could just take a one level multiclass into cleric to get the spells.
*to get level 1 spells on the cleric's list, because that's how multiclassing works.
Regardless, JaketheSnake isn't suggesting to give the cleric list to the wizard - he's suggesting making the wizard a 100% prepared caster, instead of having to add spells to his spellbook.
Wizards are a 100% prepared casters, since they can cast cantrips whenever they want. or is JaketheSnakew suggesting Wizards should get all the spells prepared in their mind ???
Wizards are a weird hybrid between known and prepared casters, and cantrips have nothing to do with that. Wizards have to learn spells (put them in their spellbook) from their spell list, and then they can prepare a certain amount of spells from their spellbook for the day. In contrast, clerics prepare spells directly from their entire spell list. The balancing factor is that wizards' spell list is about 3x as large as any given class.'
Oh goodness no, I was just fiddling around with the idea of having them basically have a completed spell book in which they can go through and prepare their spells for the day from ANY wizard spell in the wizard class list.
Great point! I know they have an enormous amount of spells, compared to other casters which is why I was wanting some feedback. I do have a war cleric in my group but he's an older guy and he is basically just playing a fighter who can bless, and do minor healing. My wizard player basically casts 99% of all the spells the party needs.
It can be fun but it can also put a ton of pressure on your wizard... plus it means they get access to all the ritual spells which could get... interesting...
I've actually had my wizard Alberta get access to 'ALL' spells up to their level from every class and while it seemed amazing it was a total nightmare! She already had approx 100 spells and suddenly I had to research and work though every spell up to 6th level from every class and look at how they all interacted.
So prior to the big battle I was up at 3am trying to figure out how to deal with the concentration, spell casting time and various spell combos. - so I'd suggest speaking to the player and maybe giving them a headsup?
The other thing is that it will get worse with levels - I know I now have 98 known spells on my wizard at level 19 and by 20 she will have 100 known spells that I need to keep track of so it's worth making sure the 'boon' has a limit' otherwise you'll be set for chaos.
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Alberta Banana@TheRealAlberta: Good News! I finally brought Zangief back from the Dead :D :D :D Also I'M A LITCH FOR REAL! Downside may have ruined 60% of Athas in the process... sigh... I'll fix it tomorrow. LVL20 Litch, Sorcerer King of the Second Banana Age of Athas, Survivor of the Tomb of Horrors, Backwards Spellcaster, Undead Warlock Patron to Jane with a army of Simulacrum clones.
If you gain spells solely from leveling a Wizard will have 44 spells by level 20, and even that can be a lot to work through. Of course you should have taken all the Wizard ritual spells so you can just read them out of your book.
I find it best to have a regular list of spells to get me through the day.
Without multiclassing or taking magical initiate I highly recommend against it. Wizards have the largest spell list as is and adding other spells to it can easily make wizards eclipse the classes where the additional spells are taken from.
Without multiclassing or taking magical initiate I highly recommend against it. Wizards have the largest spell list as is and adding other spells to it can easily make wizards eclipse the classes where the additional spells are taken from.
They are not suggesting adding to the Wizard spell list.
They are saying they just get all wizard spells in their spellbook.
---
Personally I don't see it as a big deal. In my campaign for epic level we were giving a huge amount of starting gold and my wizard could buy nearly all level 6 and lower spells into their spell book plus several higher level.
We still get challenges my wizard cant solve and still face battles where they nearly die. Big bonus, yes, but nothing game-breaking or huge and so far has had zero impact on difficulty of encounters.
But this is very dependent on the DM and type of campaign. YMMV.
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Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond. Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ thisFAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
Hey guys sorry if this isn't the place but I'm running a game and there's a big battle coming and as the players win I was going to give each a powerful boon from the gods, as the title suggests I'm considering giving my wizard player all the spells in their class similar to cleric's.
I know this can be controversial but I just wanted some feedback. Thanks!
"Inconceivable!" The wizard is arcane magic, the cleric divine magic. Two different things. But in this particular situation, yeah go ahead and do so, but don't make it a permanent effect.
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Rogue Shadow, the DM (and occasional) PC with schemes of inventive thinking
Again, to be clear, the OP is NOT suggesting giving Cleric spells to the Wizard.
The suggestion is letting the Wizard have all Wizard spellsin their spellbook.
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Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond. Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ thisFAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
Wizards are a strange mashup between known casters and prepared casters, that’s kinda their thing. I don’t think that should be taken away from them. Besides, one of the coolest parts of playing a Wizard is getting to find scrolls and Spellbooks to add to your own.
Not to mention, the only thing preventing Wizards from being the hands down strongest class in D&D is their need to find spells to add to their books. If they just had them all they would be stupid broken.
I guess it really depends on what level the party is and the battle is.. in one case we were given a artifact with a single 10th level Wish.. our party was approx. level 13 and the highest spellcasting was level 6.. so this was a huuuuuge deal.
As a wizard things that really change the tides is the ability to get another spell in a turn of battle, extra spell slots or to gain a means to concentrate on more then one spell at once - eg though using a Simulacrum.... the trick is if it's a temporary boom go crazy, for a permeant item you need to be more careful as it may have unintended consequences later.
I'd suggest that instead maybe give them the ability to once per long rest they can cast any wizard spell up to their level as a bonus action - when cast in this manner this spell does not require a spell slot or concentration. That way it's a permeant boon that gives them access to pick spells they might never prep otherwise and set up combo's that would normally require a 2nd spellcaster... or they can just use it to cast a spell they already know and love but team it with another spell they would normally not be able to combo due to concentration rules.
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Alberta Banana@TheRealAlberta: Good News! I finally brought Zangief back from the Dead :D :D :D Also I'M A LITCH FOR REAL! Downside may have ruined 60% of Athas in the process... sigh... I'll fix it tomorrow. LVL20 Litch, Sorcerer King of the Second Banana Age of Athas, Survivor of the Tomb of Horrors, Backwards Spellcaster, Undead Warlock Patron to Jane with a army of Simulacrum clones.
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Hey guys sorry if this isn't the place but I'm running a game and there's a big battle coming and as the players win I was going to give each a powerful boon from the gods, as the title suggests I'm considering giving my wizard player all the spells in their class similar to cleric's.
I know this can be controversial but I just wanted some feedback. Thanks!
Wizards have the best spell list bar none and part of their flavour is their quest for knowledge.
If you're willing to lose that questing aspect to the character go ahead as usually the optimal choices are pretty cut and dry at each level but you'll be giving that character the equivalent of hundreds of thousands of gold that they can continue to milk by scribing later and versatility that steps on almost every other classes abilities
Essentially you're giving them the equivalent of an artifact once people know that one character knows all the spells they will have no rest for the rest of their days
Do you have another healer or support caster in the party? If so, it may feel like they might not be needed anymore, since the wizard can just do it now. I'd say you might be better off giving a boon related to the Wizard's specific tradition they chose, rather than giving them all-new spells, and you'd only be able to take one or two of them.
Plus, if the wizard really wanted them, they could just take a one level multiclass into cleric to get the spells.
Wizards can go to any shop and try to buy some scrolls. then Later add those "new spells" into their Magicbook.
Tadaaaaaaaa !!! easy & simple.... only worths a couple of days in the try.
My Ready-to-rock&roll chars:
Dertinus Tristany // Amilcar Barca // Vicenç Sacrarius // Oriol Deulofeu // Grovtuk
*to get level 1 spells on the cleric's list, because that's how multiclassing works.
Regardless, JaketheSnake isn't suggesting to give the cleric list to the wizard - he's suggesting making the wizard a 100% prepared caster, instead of having to add spells to his spellbook.
Partway through the quest for absolute truth.
Wizards are a 100% prepared casters, since they can cast cantrips whenever they want. or is JaketheSnakew suggesting Wizards should get all the spells prepared in their mind ???
My Ready-to-rock&roll chars:
Dertinus Tristany // Amilcar Barca // Vicenç Sacrarius // Oriol Deulofeu // Grovtuk
Wizards are a weird hybrid between known and prepared casters, and cantrips have nothing to do with that. Wizards have to learn spells (put them in their spellbook) from their spell list, and then they can prepare a certain amount of spells from their spellbook for the day. In contrast, clerics prepare spells directly from their entire spell list. The balancing factor is that wizards' spell list is about 3x as large as any given class.'
Partway through the quest for absolute truth.
Oh goodness no, I was just fiddling around with the idea of having them basically have a completed spell book in which they can go through and prepare their spells for the day from ANY wizard spell in the wizard class list.
Thanks for the reply
Great point! I know they have an enormous amount of spells, compared to other casters which is why I was wanting some feedback. I do have a war cleric in my group but he's an older guy and he is basically just playing a fighter who can bless, and do minor healing. My wizard player basically casts 99% of all the spells the party needs.
Part of the fun of playing a wizard is collectign your spells. Normally. no two wizards will have the same spells.
In a campaign, just give a wizard a complete set of spells from the DMG and they have to find any new ones.
Myself, I have only ever done that once mind you.
Watch your back, conserve your ammo,
and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
It can be fun but it can also put a ton of pressure on your wizard... plus it means they get access to all the ritual spells which could get... interesting...
I've actually had my wizard Alberta get access to 'ALL' spells up to their level from every class and while it seemed amazing it was a total nightmare!
She already had approx 100 spells and suddenly I had to research and work though every spell up to 6th level from every class and look at how they all interacted.
So prior to the big battle I was up at 3am trying to figure out how to deal with the concentration, spell casting time and various spell combos. - so I'd suggest speaking to the player and maybe giving them a headsup?
The other thing is that it will get worse with levels - I know I now have 98 known spells on my wizard at level 19 and by 20 she will have 100 known spells that I need to keep track of so it's worth making sure the 'boon' has a limit' otherwise you'll be set for chaos.
Alberta Banana @TheRealAlberta: Good News! I finally brought Zangief back from the Dead :D :D :D Also I'M A LITCH FOR REAL! Downside may have ruined 60% of Athas in the process... sigh... I'll fix it tomorrow.
LVL20 Litch, Sorcerer King of the Second Banana Age of Athas, Survivor of the Tomb of Horrors, Backwards Spellcaster, Undead Warlock Patron to Jane with a army of Simulacrum clones.
If you gain spells solely from leveling a Wizard will have 44 spells by level 20, and even that can be a lot to work through. Of course you should have taken all the Wizard ritual spells so you can just read them out of your book.
I find it best to have a regular list of spells to get me through the day.
Without multiclassing or taking magical initiate I highly recommend against it. Wizards have the largest spell list as is and adding other spells to it can easily make wizards eclipse the classes where the additional spells are taken from.
They are not suggesting adding to the Wizard spell list.
They are saying they just get all wizard spells in their spellbook.
---
Personally I don't see it as a big deal. In my campaign for epic level we were giving a huge amount of starting gold and my wizard could buy nearly all level 6 and lower spells into their spell book plus several higher level.
We still get challenges my wizard cant solve and still face battles where they nearly die. Big bonus, yes, but nothing game-breaking or huge and so far has had zero impact on difficulty of encounters.
But this is very dependent on the DM and type of campaign. YMMV.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
"Inconceivable!" The wizard is arcane magic, the cleric divine magic. Two different things. But in this particular situation, yeah go ahead and do so, but don't make it a permanent effect.
Rogue Shadow, the DM (and occasional) PC with schemes of inventive thinking
Again, to be clear, the OP is NOT suggesting giving Cleric spells to the Wizard.
The suggestion is letting the Wizard have all Wizard spells in their spellbook.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
Sure, if they learn them all first.
Wizards are a strange mashup between known casters and prepared casters, that’s kinda their thing. I don’t think that should be taken away from them. Besides, one of the coolest parts of playing a Wizard is getting to find scrolls and Spellbooks to add to your own.
Not to mention, the only thing preventing Wizards from being the hands down strongest class in D&D is their need to find spells to add to their books. If they just had them all they would be stupid broken.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
I guess it really depends on what level the party is and the battle is.. in one case we were given a artifact with a single 10th level Wish.. our party was approx. level 13 and the highest spellcasting was level 6.. so this was a huuuuuge deal.
As a wizard things that really change the tides is the ability to get another spell in a turn of battle, extra spell slots or to gain a means to concentrate on more then one spell at once - eg though using a Simulacrum.... the trick is if it's a temporary boom go crazy, for a permeant item you need to be more careful as it may have unintended consequences later.
I'd suggest that instead maybe give them the ability to once per long rest they can cast any wizard spell up to their level as a bonus action - when cast in this manner this spell does not require a spell slot or concentration.
That way it's a permeant boon that gives them access to pick spells they might never prep otherwise and set up combo's that would normally require a 2nd spellcaster... or they can just use it to cast a spell they already know and love but team it with another spell they would normally not be able to combo due to concentration rules.
Alberta Banana @TheRealAlberta: Good News! I finally brought Zangief back from the Dead :D :D :D Also I'M A LITCH FOR REAL! Downside may have ruined 60% of Athas in the process... sigh... I'll fix it tomorrow.
LVL20 Litch, Sorcerer King of the Second Banana Age of Athas, Survivor of the Tomb of Horrors, Backwards Spellcaster, Undead Warlock Patron to Jane with a army of Simulacrum clones.