They're really not though. They're just updates to existing stuff. It would make more sense to me if they updated the existing versions for people who already owned them.

Then people who want the convenience of the consolidated book and streamlined stat blocks could buy the physical copy.

I'm not seeing the updated races in the character builder after purchasing. My characters with "legacy" races aren't showing the legacy tag (but it shows elsewhere so I know it's at least partially working). I can't change my my minotaur character for example

Quote from Sylvanborn >>

Quote from Trexdrew >>

 

Quote from ElayneTrakand >>

I am quite confused, hasn't DDB said that they will always keep all the content updated to the latest errata? If that is no longer the case then shouldn't we have access to every verion of the errata for the various versions of the content, for instance, the separate changeling abilities in WGtE, ERLW and MPMotM.

 This is the problem I have with this entire release. Both physical and digital releases of this book have been terribly handled IMO. The staggered release in the physical version trying to force people to buy the bundle just to get their hands on the book itself or wait almost 5 months later to buy it standalone. Then here comes the digital release where they're discontinuing of these books and requiring you to buy it to get what's just a glorified balance patch for a game. Companies don't require players to buy patches to games so why is WOTC and by extension DDB? It's very disrespectful and flies in the face of everything DDB has always said they would give to us their users. Nothing makes sense about this at all.

 

Warhammer, Warma-Hordes, Battletech, literally any game that has ever had a revision or an errata that would alter future prints force players to buy the new books/rules/codices to play the game with said updated rules/info. Or perhaps you've forgotten about Curse of Strahd REVAMPED, or the revised revised Van Richten's Guide to Ravenloft? 

Happily, most times when these erratas strike, any digital format updates them for free. However, in this instance, the books are being discontinued, so it's nice that we have the opportunity to retain legacy information here on DDB.

 You’re missing the point, we’ve ALWAYS had that option. You just go into the homebrew section of the site, make a homebrew of anything you want to keep in its original form, and hit save. And as you stated the digital versions are always updated for free to reflect this. I have no clue why you’re bringing up physical printings when I’m exclusively talking about digital when I mention that but talk about that to yourself all you want I guess. We’re talking about the promise DDB has always had that they will give everyone the most up to date versions for free in their digital toolset. This release has been bad from the beginning and WotC should feel bad.

Quote from Trexdrew >>

Quote from Sylvanborn >>

Quote from Trexdrew >>

 

Quote from ElayneTrakand >>

I am quite confused, hasn't DDB said that they will always keep all the content updated to the latest errata? If that is no longer the case then shouldn't we have access to every verion of the errata for the various versions of the content, for instance, the separate changeling abilities in WGtE, ERLW and MPMotM.

 This is the problem I have with this entire release. Both physical and digital releases of this book have been terribly handled IMO. The staggered release in the physical version trying to force people to buy the bundle just to get their hands on the book itself or wait almost 5 months later to buy it standalone. Then here comes the digital release where they're discontinuing of these books and requiring you to buy it to get what's just a glorified balance patch for a game. Companies don't require players to buy patches to games so why is WOTC and by extension DDB? It's very disrespectful and flies in the face of everything DDB has always said they would give to us their users. Nothing makes sense about this at all.

 

Warhammer, Warma-Hordes, Battletech, literally any game that has ever had a revision or an errata that would alter future prints force players to buy the new books/rules/codices to play the game with said updated rules/info. Or perhaps you've forgotten about Curse of Strahd REVAMPED, or the revised revised Van Richten's Guide to Ravenloft? 

Happily, most times when these erratas strike, any digital format updates them for free. However, in this instance, the books are being discontinued, so it's nice that we have the opportunity to retain legacy information here on DDB.

 You’re missing the point, we’ve ALWAYS had that option. You just go into the homebrew section of the site, make a homebrew of anything you want to keep in its original form, and hit save. And as you stated the digital versions are always updated for free to reflect this. I have no clue why you’re bringing up physical printings when I’m exclusively talking about digital when I mention that but talk about that to yourself all you want I guess. We’re talking about the promise DDB has always had that they will give everyone the most up to date versions for free in their digital toolset. This release has been bad from the beginning and WotC should feel bad.

 
Given that two entire books have been discontinued (despite WOTC saying these things totally aren't replacements and we can still use the old ones, so much for "you can still just get the old ones instead"), that's a massive amount of work to go through and homebrew every single player race and monster you want to use in its original form. It's massive middle finger to new DMs and to new players of the game in general, that they now cannot go back and not only get those versions of the race, but also now have to buy a used copy of the old books to see any of that cool lore that was not reprinted in Mordenkaiden's Ham-Fisted Awkward Transition to 5.5 But It's Still 5e. It also feels like a bit of a middle finger to DMs and players who have purchased books that are now, in their own edition, effectively ignored and replaced by M3. If M3 existed alongside Volo's and Mordenkaiden's Tomb of Foes, I'd have much less issue myself even though I like very few of the changes to the races and monsters. This isn't a transition to 5.5, it's an awkward rework of 5e in the middle of 5e that was largely unasked for.

The PHB dragonborn wasn't nuked from existence online when Fizban's came out, which was an obvious replacement because that race was universally seen as one of the worst in the game. The Undying is still available even though the Undead is functionally its replacement. The Purple Dragon Knight and Battlerager are terrible, but they didn't delete access to them from their online stores. Heck the old Ranger wasn't removed from digital either when Tasha's came out.

I can definitely agree this release has been awful and terribly communicated on Wizards' part. I don't blame DnD Beyond for any of it, they're really just doing their job and have to honor their agreement with WOTC and are owned by them as well. Like any other corporation, WOTC doesn't care as long as they're making plenty of money from it, which I have no doubt they will. We can complain all we want on DnD Beyond and on Reddit, the general public probably does not care and will buy all of it. WOTC should feel bad for how they've handled every aspect of this release, but they won't because they're still going to make money. They'd have to get as much backlash as they did for 4th Edition for them to actually want to start caring.

The biggest consolidation I have is that DnD Beyond will not automatically replace all your existing content with the M3 versions. That'd wreck havoc on my campaigns because my players and myself are very dependant on DnD Beyond since we're all online only. It'd be like when they "Errata'd" out massive chunks of lore and description from all the online books but on such a larger scale.

WOTC is trying to treat 5e like it's a live service game, except it's not.

(Edited to correct a couple typos.)

Quote from JCDenton2187 >>

Quote from Trexdrew >>

Quote from Sylvanborn >>

Quote from Trexdrew >>

 

Quote from ElayneTrakand >>

I am quite confused, hasn't DDB said that they will always keep all the content updated to the latest errata? If that is no longer the case then shouldn't we have access to every verion of the errata for the various versions of the content, for instance, the separate changeling abilities in WGtE, ERLW and MPMotM.

 This is the problem I have with this entire release. Both physical and digital releases of this book have been terribly handled IMO. The staggered release in the physical version trying to force people to buy the bundle just to get their hands on the book itself or wait almost 5 months later to buy it standalone. Then here comes the digital release where they're discontinuing of these books and requiring you to buy it to get what's just a glorified balance patch for a game. Companies don't require players to buy patches to games so why is WOTC and by extension DDB? It's very disrespectful and flies in the face of everything DDB has always said they would give to us their users. Nothing makes sense about this at all.

 

Warhammer, Warma-Hordes, Battletech, literally any game that has ever had a revision or an errata that would alter future prints force players to buy the new books/rules/codices to play the game with said updated rules/info. Or perhaps you've forgotten about Curse of Strahd REVAMPED, or the revised revised Van Richten's Guide to Ravenloft? 

Happily, most times when these erratas strike, any digital format updates them for free. However, in this instance, the books are being discontinued, so it's nice that we have the opportunity to retain legacy information here on DDB.

 You’re missing the point, we’ve ALWAYS had that option. You just go into the homebrew section of the site, make a homebrew of anything you want to keep in its original form, and hit save. And as you stated the digital versions are always updated for free to reflect this. I have no clue why you’re bringing up physical printings when I’m exclusively talking about digital when I mention that but talk about that to yourself all you want I guess. We’re talking about the promise DDB has always had that they will give everyone the most up to date versions for free in their digital toolset. This release has been bad from the beginning and WotC should feel bad.

 
Given that two entire books have been discontinued (despite WOTC saying these things totally aren't replacements and we can still use the old ones, so much for "you can still just get the old ones instead"), that's a massive amount of work to go through and homebrew every single player race and monster you want to use in its original form. It's massive middle finger to new DMs and to new players of the game in general, that they now cannot go back and not only get those versions of the race, but also now have to buy a used copy of the old books to see any of that cool lore that was not reprinted in Mordenkaiden's Ham-Fisted Awkward Transition to 5.5 But It's Still 5e. It also feels like a bit of a middle finger to DMs and players who have purchased books that are now, in their own edition, effectively ignored and replaced by M3. If M3 existed alongside Volo's and Mordenkaiden's Tomb of Foes, I'd have much less issue myself even though I like very few of the changes to the races and monsters. This isn't a transition to 5.5, it's an awkward rework of 5e in the middle of 5e that was largely unasked for.

The PHB dragonborn wasn't nuked from existence online when Fizban's came out, which was an obvious replacement because that race was universally seen as one of the worst in the game. The Undying is still available even though the Undead is functionally its replacement. The Purple Dragon Knight and Battlerager are terrible, but they didn't delete access to them from their online stores. Heck the old Ranger wasn't removed from digital either when Tasha's came out.

I can definitely agree this release has been awful and terribly communicated on Wizards' part. I don't blame DnD Beyond for any of it, they're really just doing their job and have to honor their agreement with WOTC and are owned by them as well. Like any other corporation, WOTC doesn't care as long as they're making plenty of money from it, which I have no doubt they will. We can complain all we want on DnD Beyond and on Reddit, the general public probably does not care and will buy all of it. WOTC should feel bad for how they've handled every aspect of this release, but they won't because they're still going to make money. They'd have to get as much backlash as they did for 4th Edition for them to actually want to start caring.

The biggest consolidation I have is that DnD Beyond will not automatically replace all your existing content with the M3 versions. That'd wreck havoc on my campaigns because my players and myself are very dependant on DnD Beyond since we're all online only. It'd be like when they "Errata'd" out massive chunks of lore and description from all the online books but on such a larger scale.

WOTC is trying to treat 5e like it's a live service game, except it's not.

(Edited to correct a couple typos.)

 To your first point about making homebrew versions; that’s how it has ALWAYS been on DDB though. So when the Orc and Kobold got their first errata to remove their negatives did you lose your mind over DDB automatically updating to reflect this and not allowing you to use the old one? Did you lose your mind when any of the Eberron races got their changes? As I’ve stated multiple times this has always been what DDB does whether you like it or not. The solution to this has always been just go quick homebrew what you want to keep whether you like it or not. It has always been policy of DDB to give us the most up to date versions of everything for free as the game was updated. Now suddenly this has been changed and everyone is coming out of the woodwork to say that it shouldn’t be that way. And on that point I’ll never agree with anyone saying this. That’s not DDB has been working and that’s not how it should change to work. If you say at the outset this how you will always work forever then you change that you’re doing your users a disservice.

Now I do agree with you that the release has been terribly done but DDB isn’t exempt from any blame IMO. They see all these comments here, on social media, and on YouTube telling them this isn’t what they should’ve done and they know this was a bad idea. They can easily take all of this to WotC and show them that there’s a major problem with this release and something needs to be done about it. They aren’t helpless, I refuse to believe that. The defense from many used to be “they aren’t officially part of WotC so stop bringing all this to them” but now they are. So the defense is still now almost the same of “they’re just doing their job leave them alone”? That doesn’t make sense. While I do understand that this process and release came from WotC I don’t believe that DDB is helpless and couldn’t fight for their users’ best interests and to maintain their core tenets they set out at the beginning.

Can you make it so that the lore sections in these books are purchasable?  Losing out on the lore for new players will be a large drawback.

Quote from Mangetsu_Tatsumasa >>

So going forward, if someone who just joined Beyond and wants to use the races as they were in Volos and Mordenkainen's, they're shit out of luck and jolly well ****ed. Horseshit. Just keep them available for purchase at a discount or something, or put a bloody banner saying "This is outdated content, for updated content, see Such and such," Don't restrict people from being able to use it if they just so happened to not join beyond in time. That's asinine. 

 Much agreed. Wizards would lose nothing by continuing to allow access to Volos and Tome of Foes. If anything they would get more money out of doing so, I'd think.

This is extremely disappointing.

I spent hundreds on a bundle. Now many monsters have an irritating 'Legacy' label on them.

How am I supposed to trust WOTC going forward with any purchase?

If the 'Legacy' content needed so badly revamping, this should have been done for free on the original books, as I have already paid for it.

If this really is new content, why not even bothering to create new monsters altogether, rather than recycling content we have already paid for?

Why discontinue the old established content, when you provided nothing of substance to replace it. A lot of the revisions to the existing races like the hobgoblins and kobolds, for example, you guys could've just made completely new races with these features and no one would've complained. But I guess this is what people in the era think innovative, never create anything new, just remake everything that made the original thing cool and ruin it.

The thing that made kobolds fun in DnD was that they were egotistically ambitious because they thought they had a draconic lineage and actually they didn't. They were more akin to a small complimentary race to the lizardfolk, like how halflings were to humans. But you decide to affirm their disillusion and actually give them draconic racial traits, instead of just making something new that could've been the small complimentary race to Dragonborn. People would've embraced them with open arms and there wouldn't have been any blowback.

With every book that comes out, you guys are slowly losing your creditability. If forgoing the traditions and standards that have been a part of DnD for over the span of half a century is the route you want to go down, then I think we need an alternative to this game.

The "game" is the rules. Everything else, all the fluff and lore, is all setting. The game is designed to be played in multiple settings. I think what you want is to stick with the setting you have. And you can. 

New players don't tend to care about that lore. And that's okay, too. 

I agree.

Nothing stops me from using my ‘Legacy’ content.

My disappointment is in having been assigned that, purely cosmetic, label.

It’s distracting and reminiscent of something aching to planned obsolescence 

Quote from Aka_Arashi >>

Why discontinue the old established content, when you provided nothing of substance to replace it. A lot of the revisions to the existing races like the hobgoblins and kobolds, for example, you guys could've just made completely new races with these features and no one would've complained. But I guess this is what people in the era think innovative, never create anything new, just remake everything that made the original thing cool and ruin it.

The thing that made kobolds fun in DnD was that they were egotistically ambitious because they thought they had a draconic lineage and actually they didn't. They were more akin to a small complimentary race to the lizardfolk, like how halflings were to humans. But you decide to affirm their disillusion and actually give them draconic racial traits, instead of just making something new that could've been the small complimentary race to Dragonborn. People would've embraced them with open arms and there wouldn't have been any blowback.

With every book that comes out, you guys are slowly losing your creditability. If forgoing the traditions and standards that have been a part of DnD for over the span of half a century is the route you want to go down, then I think we need an alternative to this game.

 There needs to be a way to upvote or like comments like this, not just on the forums. 

100% agree

Quote from JCDenton2187 >>

Quote from Aka_Arashi >>

Why discontinue the old established content, when you provided nothing of substance to replace it. A lot of the revisions to the existing races like the hobgoblins and kobolds, for example, you guys could've just made completely new races with these features and no one would've complained. But I guess this is what people in the era think innovative, never create anything new, just remake everything that made the original thing cool and ruin it.

The thing that made kobolds fun in DnD was that they were egotistically ambitious because they thought they had a draconic lineage and actually they didn't. They were more akin to a small complimentary race to the lizardfolk, like how halflings were to humans. But you decide to affirm their disillusion and actually give them draconic racial traits, instead of just making something new that could've been the small complimentary race to Dragonborn. People would've embraced them with open arms and there wouldn't have been any blowback.

With every book that comes out, you guys are slowly losing your creditability. If forgoing the traditions and standards that have been a part of DnD for over the span of half a century is the route you want to go down, then I think we need an alternative to this game.

 There needs to be a way to upvote or like comments like this, not just on the forums. 

100% agree

 I agree with both of you 100% I have no clue why they would discontinue the books other than for profit and I also have no clue why we can't upvote comments on these posts. We can on regular forum posts but we should be able to on these posts. There's been so many comments I've agreed with on this post that I wish I could upvote to infinity.

Quote from Trexdrew >>

 I agree with both of you 100% I have no clue why they would discontinue the books other than for profit and I also have no clue why we can't upvote comments on these posts. We can on regular forum posts but we should be able to on these posts. There's been so many comments I've agreed with on this post that I wish I could upvote to infinity.

 "Profit" is a poor motive to ascribe to the move, given that selling 2-3 books* at $50 ($30 on Beyond) a pop is better than selling 1 book at that rate. There's a lot going on with this whole weird-ass move, but I'm not sold that "greed" is anywhere near the top of the list, if it's on the list at all.

*selling volo and tome of foes to people that prefer them but don't have them, or selling them + monsterverse to completists. 

Quote from vcdb2d6qca >>

I agree.

Nothing stops me from using my ‘Legacy’ content.

My disappointment is in having been assigned that, purely cosmetic, label.

It’s distracting and reminiscent of something aching to planned obsolescence 

 It's not "purely" cosmetic, it indicates that it's not material Wizards intends to move forward with or best represents the game and setting they wish to sell and promote at this time. 

If they were planning any true obsolescence, they wouldn't be keeping it in any form, with or without a tag. They gain nothing but (what seems to be a small measure of) goodwill from keeping the material up at all. They don't have to. We don't own it. We owned the rights to access it on the site for as long as it's hosted here. 

Quote from SemanticAvenger >>

Quote from Trexdrew >>

 I agree with both of you 100% I have no clue why they would discontinue the books other than for profit and I also have no clue why we can't upvote comments on these posts. We can on regular forum posts but we should be able to on these posts. There's been so many comments I've agreed with on this post that I wish I could upvote to infinity.

 "Profit" is a poor motive to ascribe to the move, given that selling 2-3 books* at $50 ($30 on Beyond) a pop is better than selling 1 book at that rate. There's a lot going on with this whole weird-ass move, but I'm not sold that "greed" is anywhere near the top of the list, if it's on the list at all.

*selling volo and tome of foes to people that prefer them but don't have them, or selling them + monsterverse to completists. 

 If greed wasn't at the top of the list why would they force you to buy the bundle the book came in and stagger the release by 5 months before you could by it solo? Have you considered that part of the issue? Have you wondered why they forced DDB to charge for the digital release of this book instead of letting them give it away for free? The motto of DDB has always been that any and ALL updates to content you already owned will ALWAYS be free to their users. If this wasn't about greed why would they make us buy it? Come on now, you can't have read this entire discussion without seeing this point repeatedly and still think it isn't about greed.

No one made you do anything. They put together a collection of changes that are testing out the direction of the 2024 "evolution" and which they knew would be controversial. They left the old books there for those who owned them and cared. If you cared, you'd likely bought them already, and new players who come after this change are less likely to know about the shift and less likely to give a damn about the old mechanics and lore. And the fact of the matter is that after this change, they stand to make less profit in perpetuity by putting the bulk of player-facing options in one book rather than two. And I don't begrudge the delay to try to move a few copies of the boxed set, which was meant to be their big holiday release before covid-related production/shipping delays screwed them over.

Five months is nothing. I barely noticed it. Your compulsion and impatience are neither Wizards' fault nor their problem. Never mind that most of the people complaining about this situation are against the new book and talking about ignoring it in favor of the old material, anyway.

The long and the short of it is that even if nobody were mad about it, this move represents an overall reduction in profit due to a similar level of actionable content in one book versus two, and the old stuff is still there for those who cared enough about it to buy it. I see this as a move that is 100% about brand and image management moving forward, and one they believed strongly enough in to take the hit to ongoing, long-term profits to make.

If the content is not setting compatible AKA all of Mordenkainen Presents: Monsters of the Multiverse content, then the content is NOT appliable to any D&D game!
Making the entirety Mordenkainen Presents: Monsters of the Multiverse useless and worthless!

Quote from SemanticAvenger >>

No one *made* you do anything. They put together a collection of changes that are testing out the direction of the 2024 "evolution" and which they knew would be controversial. They left the old books there for those who owned them and cared. If you cared, you'd likely bought them already, and new players who come after this change are less likely to know about the shift and less likely to give a damn about the old mechanics and lore. And the fact of the matter is that after this change, they stand to make less profit in perpetuity by putting the bulk of player-facing options in one book rather than two. And I don't begrudge the delay to try to move a few copies of the boxed set, which was meant to be their big holiday release before covid-related production/shipping delays screwed them over.

Five months is nothing. I barely noticed it. Your compulsion and impatience are neither Wizards' fault nor their problem. Never mind that most of the people complaining about this situation are against the new book and talking about ignoring it in favor of the old material, anyway.

The long and the short of it is that even if nobody were mad about it, this move represents an overall reduction in profit due to a similar level of actionable content in one book versus two, and the old stuff is still there for those who cared enough about it to buy it. I see this as a move that is 100% about brand and image management moving forward, and one they believed strongly enough in to take the hit to ongoing, long-term profits to make.

 And even if it is solely about brand and image management, they’re ruining the trust in the DDB brand that has been built for years with this release. They’re failing on all counts no matter how much you try to spin it and be an apologist.