Hey everyone! I'm considering an Artificer, specifically an Armorer, for my next campaign. I have been looking at it and can't escape the idea that artificers kinda start to fall off after level 10. I'm probably wrong but I need some help on explaining how they remain fun and effective in the later parts of the game. Any advice you have would be greatly appreciated!
Stoutstein already covered it, but to reiterate one point you musn't underestimate the benefit of additional attunements; in a way, instead of getting new class features as others do, you're gaining the ability to choose a feature from any magic item(s) you have, or can create.
That last part is important, because even in a campaign where magic items aren't being handed out all that frequently, as an Artificer you can just straight up create a whole bunch that you want by using the Replicate Item infusion.
This means by higher levels you can end up with 19 in most of your ability scores, and/or even higher AC, and/or immunity to various status effects, and a whole bunch of other cool stuff, and if you do have access to a lot of magic items in your campaign, then an artificer can get even crazier.
And yeah, that 20th level capstone is huge; it's basically +6 to all saving throws, and you essentially have Death Ward cast on yourself up to twelve six times, requiring only a reaction to save yourself (this means you can't trigger it more than once per round, but it's still a big deal).
Edit: Whoops, got my number of death ward-lites wrong, thanks Lostwhilefishing!
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
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And yeah, that 20th level capstone is huge; it's basically +6 to all saving throws, and you essentially have Death Ward cast on yourself up to twelve times, requiring only a reaction to save yourself (this means you can't trigger it more than once per round, but it's still a big deal).
While I agree with the general sentiment that artificers are an awesome class, the bolded statement is completely wrong. You can only have six infusions going at any given time. Still, Death Ward on a reaction six times is amazing.
In general, artificers are, through such things as prepared spells, the spell storing item and their dependency on only one ability, incredibly versatile. The Armorer is probably one of the best subclasses in the entire game since it can do pretty much everything with just a long rest to prepare. The ability to sneak in full plate without disadvantage, their tanking and just the general allroundedness for them as a class makes them top tier.
You can sneak in +7 as a capstone if wand sheaths are allowed. Especially nice now that it's a common magical item.
That would be awesome, but I think I disagree: "If a sheathed wand requires attunement, you must attune to the wand before you can use it. However, the wand sheath and the attached wand count as a single magic item with regard to the number of magic items you can attune to."
If you want extra boosts to your saves, though, consider equipping all 3 of the following at level 20: stone of good luck (luckstone), cloak of protection, and ring of protection. With a total +9 to all saves before ability score bonuses + proficiency (note this includes death saves) and the ability to add +5 on top of it as a reaction 5 times a day . . . basically you're a dragon.
Hey everyone! I'm considering an Artificer, specifically an Armorer, for my next campaign. I have been looking at it and can't escape the idea that artificers kinda start to fall off after level 10. I'm probably wrong but I need some help on explaining how they remain fun and effective in the later parts of the game. Any advice you have would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks!
Which levels strike you as dead? Level 11, the very first one after 10, brings with it the SSI, a truly incredible ability - 10 level 2 spell slots that can use someone else's action economy is next-level good. Even as a non-Battle Smith, you can employ e.g. a Tiny Servant to use your SSI, if you don't have a party member who's interested, or a familiar, or a haemonculus.
Level 12 is an ASI and literally nothing else, and level 13 is your first level 4 spell, which is boring by Artificer standards - compared to levels 5 and 9, 13 and 17 are much deader. No argument there.
Level 14 is mostly just your level 10 ability scaling with proficiency bonus, but being able to use any magic item without most restrictions is great in a campaign where your DM lets you have nice toys. Spell Scrolls are a great example, but not the only one. An Amulet of the Devout will completely stack with your "real" +X focus, for example. Level 14 also unlocks some important infusions, like Amulet of Health and Ring of Protection.
Level 15 is your subclass feature, so it depends. For Armorer, the primary benefit is the Infiltrator suit getting a lot better - good for combining with a Cloak of the Bat.
Level 16 is is just an ASI. Level 17 is dead (just your first L5 slot) and level 18 is actually dead, too, since all you get is your magic item mastery ability continuing to scale with proficiency bonus - WOTC tried to disguise it by changing its name every time your pb goes up, but the core ability is simply attuning magic items equal to pb, and here your pb goes up. You don't get anything genuinely new. Level 19 is also an ASI.
And then level 20 is the capstone everyone in this thread has rightly praised.
So the "boring" levels, not counting the ASI ones, are 13, 17, and 18. That's not bad, really. Look at how many dead levels wizards have, for example.
If you are a creative player that reads up on what they can do with their character you will be surprised at the kind of stuff you can do with a high level artificer.
It's not obvious because it doesn't come right out and say it in plain text, you need to figure out what's possible with extra attunement and infusions.
For example, winged boots, and perfected guardian armor: you can fly up 30 feet and as a reaction pull a target up 30ft punch them, and then they drop for an extra 3d6 fall damage.
The Artificer's extra attunement slots are pretty interesting because, in an odd way, it's kind of like a Warlock's Eldritch Invocations. If you don't take them into account the core class definitely feels much weaker than the other classes, but once you do start to include them it opens up the class to all kinds of wild combinations that can completely shatter some challenges. It is a bit interesting, though, how much the Artificer's skillset is affected by the DM and how they run their game... a DM who doesn't regularly give out magic items and doesn't give the players the downtime necessary to craft their own magic items will result in an Artificer who basically needs to keep all their infusions for themselves just to keep up with the other players.
The Artificer's extra attunement slots are pretty interesting because, in an odd way, it's kind of like a Warlock's Eldritch Invocations. If you don't take them into account the core class definitely feels much weaker than the other classes, but once you do start to include them it opens up the class to all kinds of wild combinations that can completely shatter some challenges. It is a bit interesting, though, how much the Artificer's skillset is affected by the DM and how they run their game... a DM who doesn't regularly give out magic items and doesn't give the players the downtime necessary to craft their own magic items will result in an Artificer who basically needs to keep all their infusions for themselves just to keep up with the other players.
I was actually thinking the opposite to this.
If the DM doesn't regularly give out magic items at level 10 giving the fighter a +2 to his weapon and giving the Cleric a cloak of protection will probably help the party more than if the artificer keeps a his infusions for himself.
If the DM is giving out lots of goodies then the rest of the party might have better magic items than the artificer can provide. (though also the artificer can be in the same situation, I have just reached level 15 in a game and it is getting to the point that I have created goggles of the night to increase my darkvision because all more important needs are met or require an atunement slot that is better used by another item.
That's pretty interesting... I was going off of purely theoretical ideas, since I haven't had the chance to play a long campaign with an Artificer yet. It's interesting to hear from someone who's actually experienced the scenario I was imagining and the reality is so different from my assumptions.
There is absolutely nothing “dead” about Artificers at any level. They are truly S Tier. They are the most flexible, they have some amazing, unique features. Them and Bards are probably the two classes that can never not have anything to contribute if the player picks the right stuff. They are amazing.
There is absolutely nothing “dead” about Artificers at any level. They are truly S Tier. They are the most flexible, they have some amazing, unique features. Them and Bards are probably the two classes that can never not have anything to contribute if the player picks the right stuff. They are amazing.
Exactly. If there's ever a situation you can't contribute to as an artificer, you're not playing it correctly.
There is absolutely nothing “dead” about Artificers at any level. They are truly S Tier. They are the most flexible, they have some amazing, unique features. Them and Bards are probably the two classes that can never not have anything to contribute if the player picks the right stuff. They are amazing.
I have a lvl 10 Artificer Battlesmith / 1 War Cleric, rocking +2 Plate / Gauntlets of Ogre Power (so I can rock plate) / Repulsion Shield / Cloak of Protection /
He is basically the main tank 25AC, smarter than our wizard Skill Expert feat, +5 to any skill check, attacks x3 times, my little homey Clink Clank (Robot Buddy) spreads disadvantage... indentifies our magic items, etc....
Idk, at 1st I didnt like my character.... but he has turned into such as badass... my favorite character Ive played but my lvl 6 Way of Mercy Monk is starting to come into his own also....
The Artificers ability to adapt to whatever the party needs is so underrated.... such a good class, Im tempted to try put the Alchemist now.... Im betting the class will end up pretty damn good.
There is absolutely nothing “dead” about Artificers at any level. They are truly S Tier. They are the most flexible, they have some amazing, unique features. Them and Bards are probably the two classes that can never not have anything to contribute if the player picks the right stuff. They are amazing.
I have a lvl 10 Artificer Battlesmith / 1 War Cleric, rocking +2 Plate / Gauntlets of Ogre Power (so I can rock plate) / Repulsion Shield / Cloak of Protection /
He is basically the main tank 25AC, smarter than our wizard Skill Expert feat, +5 to any skill check, attacks x3 times, my little homey Clink Clank (Robot Buddy) spreads disadvantage... indentifies our magic items, etc....
Idk, at 1st I didnt like my character.... but he has turned into such as badass... my favorite character Ive played but my lvl 6 Way of Mercy Monk is starting to come into his own also....
The Artificers ability to adapt to whatever the party needs is so underrated.... such a good class, Im tempted to try put the Alchemist now.... Im betting the class will end up pretty damn good.
Be prepared for culture shock - Alchemist is easily the worst Artificer subclass, by a wide margin, and the utility drop from Battle Smith to Alchemist is substantial.
Hey everyone! I'm considering an Artificer, specifically an Armorer, for my next campaign. I have been looking at it and can't escape the idea that artificers kinda start to fall off after level 10. I'm probably wrong but I need some help on explaining how they remain fun and effective in the later parts of the game. Any advice you have would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks!
Stoutstein already covered it, but to reiterate one point you musn't underestimate the benefit of additional attunements; in a way, instead of getting new class features as others do, you're gaining the ability to choose a feature from any magic item(s) you have, or can create.
That last part is important, because even in a campaign where magic items aren't being handed out all that frequently, as an Artificer you can just straight up create a whole bunch that you want by using the Replicate Item infusion.
This means by higher levels you can end up with 19 in most of your ability scores, and/or even higher AC, and/or immunity to various status effects, and a whole bunch of other cool stuff, and if you do have access to a lot of magic items in your campaign, then an artificer can get even crazier.
And yeah, that 20th level capstone is huge; it's basically +6 to all saving throws, and you essentially have Death Ward cast on yourself up to
twelvesix times, requiring only a reaction to save yourself (this means you can't trigger it more than once per round, but it's still a big deal).Edit: Whoops, got my number of death ward-lites wrong, thanks Lostwhilefishing!
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
While I agree with the general sentiment that artificers are an awesome class, the bolded statement is completely wrong. You can only have six infusions going at any given time. Still, Death Ward on a reaction six times is amazing.
In general, artificers are, through such things as prepared spells, the spell storing item and their dependency on only one ability, incredibly versatile. The Armorer is probably one of the best subclasses in the entire game since it can do pretty much everything with just a long rest to prepare. The ability to sneak in full plate without disadvantage, their tanking and just the general allroundedness for them as a class makes them top tier.
That would be awesome, but I think I disagree: "If a sheathed wand requires attunement, you must attune to the wand before you can use it. However, the wand sheath and the attached wand count as a single magic item with regard to the number of magic items you can attune to."
If you want extra boosts to your saves, though, consider equipping all 3 of the following at level 20: stone of good luck (luckstone), cloak of protection, and ring of protection. With a total +9 to all saves before ability score bonuses + proficiency (note this includes death saves) and the ability to add +5 on top of it as a reaction 5 times a day . . . basically you're a dragon.
Partway through the quest for absolute truth.
And then you stand next to the paladin and declare yourself immune to saving throws.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Which levels strike you as dead? Level 11, the very first one after 10, brings with it the SSI, a truly incredible ability - 10 level 2 spell slots that can use someone else's action economy is next-level good. Even as a non-Battle Smith, you can employ e.g. a Tiny Servant to use your SSI, if you don't have a party member who's interested, or a familiar, or a haemonculus.
Level 12 is an ASI and literally nothing else, and level 13 is your first level 4 spell, which is boring by Artificer standards - compared to levels 5 and 9, 13 and 17 are much deader. No argument there.
Level 14 is mostly just your level 10 ability scaling with proficiency bonus, but being able to use any magic item without most restrictions is great in a campaign where your DM lets you have nice toys. Spell Scrolls are a great example, but not the only one. An Amulet of the Devout will completely stack with your "real" +X focus, for example. Level 14 also unlocks some important infusions, like Amulet of Health and Ring of Protection.
Level 15 is your subclass feature, so it depends. For Armorer, the primary benefit is the Infiltrator suit getting a lot better - good for combining with a Cloak of the Bat.
Level 16 is is just an ASI. Level 17 is dead (just your first L5 slot) and level 18 is actually dead, too, since all you get is your magic item mastery ability continuing to scale with proficiency bonus - WOTC tried to disguise it by changing its name every time your pb goes up, but the core ability is simply attuning magic items equal to pb, and here your pb goes up. You don't get anything genuinely new. Level 19 is also an ASI.
And then level 20 is the capstone everyone in this thread has rightly praised.
So the "boring" levels, not counting the ASI ones, are 13, 17, and 18. That's not bad, really. Look at how many dead levels wizards have, for example.
At 18th level, artificers also learn two more infusions (total of 12) and get one more infusion they can have active (total of 6, 8 if Armorer).
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
If you are a creative player that reads up on what they can do with their character you will be surprised at the kind of stuff you can do with a high level artificer.
It's not obvious because it doesn't come right out and say it in plain text, you need to figure out what's possible with extra attunement and infusions.
For example, winged boots, and perfected guardian armor: you can fly up 30 feet and as a reaction pull a target up 30ft punch them, and then they drop for an extra 3d6 fall damage.
The Artificer's extra attunement slots are pretty interesting because, in an odd way, it's kind of like a Warlock's Eldritch Invocations. If you don't take them into account the core class definitely feels much weaker than the other classes, but once you do start to include them it opens up the class to all kinds of wild combinations that can completely shatter some challenges. It is a bit interesting, though, how much the Artificer's skillset is affected by the DM and how they run their game... a DM who doesn't regularly give out magic items and doesn't give the players the downtime necessary to craft their own magic items will result in an Artificer who basically needs to keep all their infusions for themselves just to keep up with the other players.
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I was actually thinking the opposite to this.
If the DM doesn't regularly give out magic items at level 10 giving the fighter a +2 to his weapon and giving the Cleric a cloak of protection will probably help the party more than if the artificer keeps a his infusions for himself.
If the DM is giving out lots of goodies then the rest of the party might have better magic items than the artificer can provide. (though also the artificer can be in the same situation, I have just reached level 15 in a game and it is getting to the point that I have created goggles of the night to increase my darkvision because all more important needs are met or require an atunement slot that is better used by another item.
That's pretty interesting... I was going off of purely theoretical ideas, since I haven't had the chance to play a long campaign with an Artificer yet. It's interesting to hear from someone who's actually experienced the scenario I was imagining and the reality is so different from my assumptions.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
There is absolutely nothing “dead” about Artificers at any level. They are truly S Tier. They are the most flexible, they have some amazing, unique features. Them and Bards are probably the two classes that can never not have anything to contribute if the player picks the right stuff. They are amazing.
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Exactly. If there's ever a situation you can't contribute to as an artificer, you're not playing it correctly.
I have a lvl 10 Artificer Battlesmith / 1 War Cleric, rocking +2 Plate / Gauntlets of Ogre Power (so I can rock plate) / Repulsion Shield / Cloak of Protection /
He is basically the main tank 25AC, smarter than our wizard Skill Expert feat, +5 to any skill check, attacks x3 times, my little homey Clink Clank (Robot Buddy) spreads disadvantage... indentifies our magic items, etc....
Idk, at 1st I didnt like my character.... but he has turned into such as badass... my favorite character Ive played but my lvl 6 Way of Mercy Monk is starting to come into his own also....
The Artificers ability to adapt to whatever the party needs is so underrated.... such a good class, Im tempted to try put the Alchemist now.... Im betting the class will end up pretty damn good.
Be prepared for culture shock - Alchemist is easily the worst Artificer subclass, by a wide margin, and the utility drop from Battle Smith to Alchemist is substantial.
Have you played one?