i mean the gimmic of the artificer is that their spells are not exactly spells at all but instead some kind of clever invention that you use, and for this purpose the dragons breath spell is already an arcane thing but the thing it does is that for the next minute or until concentration breaks you or an creature you touch can use an action to create an cone that deals acid, cold, fire, lighting or poison damage, but the same damage type is used each time, like this spell could easily be reflavoured as anything from an flamethrower that you give to somebody to one of em acid spray guns, or some kind of device that shoots poisonous gas from an container, or as an special serum that lets you spew acid, fire or poison from your mouth, as an extension of your arcane firearm, as you doing some kind of hack to the cooling system in your armor or fire resistance to instead spew the cooling liquid into a burst to deal cold damage, some kind of weird directional tesla coil, like there is always an way for you to flavour this spell unlike many existing artificer spells, like what has happened here? did they forget about this spell? did they not think it fit with the artificer play style? was it considered too powerful? this just feels like the biggest missed opportunity in the entire damm game and i am very annoyed by this.
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
if the class feature variants UA gets an new addition i really hope artificer is included and i hope they get dragons breath added to the spell list and maybe also a few infusions that lets them create more types of constructs, cantrip versatillity and just maybe an infusion that lets them add elemental damage
Catapult, Heat Metal, Glyph of Warding, can deliver damage via a targeted object. Magic Weapon, Elemental Weapon, and Flame Arrows enhance nonmagical weapons/ammunition Glyph of Warding, Mordenkainen's Faithful Hound, and Transmute Rock can deliver damage via a targeted surface or area. Mordenkainen's Faithful Hound, and Bigby's Hand create a very temporary minions that can do damage. I just realized Tiny Servant and Animate Objects didn't make that list in DNDBeyond's Filter, those both fall in line with targeted objects/temporary minions. Absorb Elements temporarily enhances a creature (self) potentially unleashing elemental damage on a melee attack.
Dragon's Breath would fall under temporarily enhanced creature. It fits right in with other damaging artificer spells and the mechanical theme of doing damage mostly indirectly.
Subclass features it might compete with: Artillerist: Eldritch Cannon's Flamethrower (but it costs merely a level 1 spell slot and is controlled via bonus action so no, not really...) Alchemist: Flaming Sphere (roughly the same damage area, fire only, less damage but works on bonus action... so again not really) Battle Smith: Not really anything it competes with. And in fact Dragon's Breath could be cast on the Steel Defender (except RAW it might not be able to use that breath weapon in combat).
Yeah it really should be on the Artificer Spell list. Particularly considering the material component is a hot pepper and cook's utensils are artisan tools.
Yeah it really should be on the Artificer Spell list. Particularly considering the material component is a hot pepper and cook's utensils are artisan tools.
ooh boy yeah thats another way to flavor it, or as very spicy cocktails for brewers supplies, firs perfectly with fire, poison and acid
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
An additional question I would liek to bring up along this same line is: why are the cantrips Booming Blade and Green-Flame Blade not available to the Artificer. They seem perfect for an individual like the Artificer.
An additional question I would liek to bring up along this same line is: why are the cantrips Booming Blade and Green-Flame Blade not available to the Artificer. They seem perfect for an individual like the Artificer.
well partially becuase they were from the sword coast adventurers guide only and when releasing ebberon: rising form the last war it was way easier to only include spells from xanatars guide to everything and the players handbook so that way a person looking at the list can easily see what spells are from what source, no asterisk is from the PHB and asterisk is from XGtE, taking spells from any more sources, especially when each source only really adds one or two spells would get messy.
Also another factor might be that the blade cantrips are only found in an setting specific source book and are presumably rather connected to that setting, as they have never got reprinted in any other source the designers might be unhappy with the power level of these cantrips, considering them ether to strong or too weak, they might see it as disruptive with the design of the battle smith as its 5th level feature would be pointless for a player who primarily uses ether cantrip since extra attack only works with the attack action, it might also have to do with the artificer being more associated with ranged attacks from repeating crossbows, firearms and wands, at least in 5e, and that the designers felt the cantrips clashed with this theme
none of these are particularly good reasons on their own, but it might be a combination of those factors, hopefully if the cantips are ever reprinted into a new sourcebook they will end up on the artificer spell list where they truly and rightfully belong
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
They could have been easily been reprinted in the Eberron book along with the Artificer class. It always puzzled me as to why every half caster got spells unique to the class (Paladin got smites andf summon steed, Ranger got Hunter's Mark), but the Artificer got nada. A big fat nothing. They tool away the one unique spell when the 2nd 'Official' book came out.
I love the Artificer, but I think WotC messed it up when it came to the class's spells.
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Watch your back, conserve your ammo, and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
Yep in general I think the Artificer needs more 'bang for their buck' spells. Ones that providie strong effects, basically similiar but lesser as a Warlock. They don't have a lot of spells, so they need them to stretch over the day. Strong duration buffs, or aoe attacks or strong debuffs sort of deal, along with the good utility.
Dragon's Breath I feel like wouldn't be very useful on the other two classes, but would be pretty good for the Alchemist. Though it would still be prety great for the other two classes as well, (two AOE cones on artilirst fun~). But I feel like both of the other two would have alternate actions they'd rather take, or have better aoe choices. It is absolutely perfet visualization though regardless if you're going tech or if your'e going magitech, or alchemy.
There are a ton of spells artificers probably should have, each subclass as well yep. I really look forward to them expanding the spell lists! I'm biased for Alchemists in general-who are kind of gap fill/caster styled. Some cantrips would be Sapping Strike, GRB, Booming Blade, Primal Savagery, that poison bug con save one (not great but very flavorful).
Honestly I really want to replace the alchemist subclass list. Flaming Sphere and Acid ARrow. I lvoe acid arrow, but flaming sphere doens't work with the class ability anyway. Well once it does i guess). Prayer of Healing + Acid ARrow or DRagons breath would be great!
--
I've currently got a lot of strong hopes that they'll reprint the Artificer (and in paritcular take the change to alter alchemsit) in this up coming book. Since those Feats feature ARtificer and Gun specific stuff.
maybe they'll add a bunch of spells too. and unique spells! Such as a version of the UA one that everyone liked. As well as some form of "make a temporary infusion you know via a spell slot and concentration" that would be a pretty neat unique spells.
Because it is sorcerer specific, and I mean come on. The sorcerers get shafted on just about everything. At least let them have one or two spells unique to them.
Because it is sorcerer specific, and I mean come on. The sorcerers get shafted on just about everything. At least let them have one or two spells unique to them.
Because it is sorcerer specific, and I mean come on. The sorcerers get shafted on just about everything. At least let them have one or two spells unique to them.
Wizards have it though? or is that a newer event?
no dragons breath was introduced in xanatar's guide to everything, where it was always available to both sorcerer and wizard, this fellow seems to be mistaken
Yeah, Chaos Bolt is the sole sorcerer-only spell. And artificers (for obvious reasons) are the only class with spellcasting who have no unique spells at all.
Didn't even realize they didn't have dragon's breath till now...
Also can someone explain why Artificer doesn't have shield as part of their spell list? If they're just going to give it to all of the subclasses (except alchemist) why not just make it part of their spell list.
My guess is because of thematic reasons. Armourer, artillerist, and battlesmith are all more militaristic and physical than alchemist. Alchemist seems like the odd one out, feeling more focused on chemicals and magic.
Hunter's mark would be for battlesmith. It only works with weapon attack and generally artilirist won't be usign a weapon I think.
Could do hex though. and say its a targetting system
Hex would also thematically work with the Alchemist primarily because the material component is a petrified eye of newt, and an eye of newt is about the most stereotypical potion ingredient ever known.
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i mean the gimmic of the artificer is that their spells are not exactly spells at all but instead some kind of clever invention that you use, and for this purpose the dragons breath spell is already an arcane thing but the thing it does is that for the next minute or until concentration breaks you or an creature you touch can use an action to create an cone that deals acid, cold, fire, lighting or poison damage, but the same damage type is used each time, like this spell could easily be reflavoured as anything from an flamethrower that you give to somebody to one of em acid spray guns, or some kind of device that shoots poisonous gas from an container, or as an special serum that lets you spew acid, fire or poison from your mouth, as an extension of your arcane firearm, as you doing some kind of hack to the cooling system in your armor or fire resistance to instead spew the cooling liquid into a burst to deal cold damage, some kind of weird directional tesla coil, like there is always an way for you to flavour this spell unlike many existing artificer spells, like what has happened here? did they forget about this spell? did they not think it fit with the artificer play style? was it considered too powerful? this just feels like the biggest missed opportunity in the entire damm game and i am very annoyed by this.
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
if the class feature variants UA gets an new addition i really hope artificer is included and i hope they get dragons breath added to the spell list and maybe also a few infusions that lets them create more types of constructs, cantrip versatillity and just maybe an infusion that lets them add elemental damage
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
It really does fit extremely well. Maybe they considered it too direct damage to fit an Artificer? Though that seems pretty weak as a theory.
Looking at the list of leveled spells on the artificer list that can cause damage we have:
1st Level: Absorb Elements, Catapult
2nd Level: Heat Metal, Magic Weapon
3rd Level: Elemental Weapon, Flame Arrows, Glyph of Warding
4th Level: Elemental Bane, Mordenkainen's Faithful Hound
5th Level: Bigby's Hand, Transmute Rock
Catapult, Heat Metal, Glyph of Warding, can deliver damage via a targeted object.
Magic Weapon, Elemental Weapon, and Flame Arrows enhance nonmagical weapons/ammunition
Glyph of Warding, Mordenkainen's Faithful Hound, and Transmute Rock can deliver damage via a targeted surface or area.
Mordenkainen's Faithful Hound, and Bigby's Hand create a very temporary minions that can do damage.
I just realized Tiny Servant and Animate Objects didn't make that list in DNDBeyond's Filter, those both fall in line with targeted objects/temporary minions.
Absorb Elements temporarily enhances a creature (self) potentially unleashing elemental damage on a melee attack.
Dragon's Breath would fall under temporarily enhanced creature. It fits right in with other damaging artificer spells and the mechanical theme of doing damage mostly indirectly.
Subclass features it might compete with:
Artillerist: Eldritch Cannon's Flamethrower (but it costs merely a level 1 spell slot and is controlled via bonus action so no, not really...)
Alchemist: Flaming Sphere (roughly the same damage area, fire only, less damage but works on bonus action... so again not really)
Battle Smith: Not really anything it competes with. And in fact Dragon's Breath could be cast on the Steel Defender (except RAW it might not be able to use that breath weapon in combat).
Yeah it really should be on the Artificer Spell list. Particularly considering the material component is a hot pepper and cook's utensils are artisan tools.
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(hey dude why did you add the dragons breath tooltip with no context?)
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
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ooh boy yeah thats another way to flavor it, or as very spicy cocktails for brewers supplies, firs perfectly with fire, poison and acid
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
An additional question I would liek to bring up along this same line is: why are the cantrips Booming Blade and Green-Flame Blade not available to the Artificer. They seem perfect for an individual like the Artificer.
Watch your back, conserve your ammo,
and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
well partially becuase they were from the sword coast adventurers guide only and when releasing ebberon: rising form the last war it was way easier to only include spells from xanatars guide to everything and the players handbook so that way a person looking at the list can easily see what spells are from what source, no asterisk is from the PHB and asterisk is from XGtE, taking spells from any more sources, especially when each source only really adds one or two spells would get messy.
Also another factor might be that the blade cantrips are only found in an setting specific source book and are presumably rather connected to that setting, as they have never got reprinted in any other source the designers might be unhappy with the power level of these cantrips, considering them ether to strong or too weak, they might see it as disruptive with the design of the battle smith as its 5th level feature would be pointless for a player who primarily uses ether cantrip since extra attack only works with the attack action, it might also have to do with the artificer being more associated with ranged attacks from repeating crossbows, firearms and wands, at least in 5e, and that the designers felt the cantrips clashed with this theme
none of these are particularly good reasons on their own, but it might be a combination of those factors, hopefully if the cantips are ever reprinted into a new sourcebook they will end up on the artificer spell list where they truly and rightfully belong
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
They could have been easily been reprinted in the Eberron book along with the Artificer class. It always puzzled me as to why every half caster got spells unique to the class (Paladin got smites andf summon steed, Ranger got Hunter's Mark), but the Artificer got nada. A big fat nothing. They tool away the one unique spell when the 2nd 'Official' book came out.
I love the Artificer, but I think WotC messed it up when it came to the class's spells.
Watch your back, conserve your ammo,
and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
Context for the rest of us :) helps to be able to quickly reference for those of us that don't have are new to a lot of the spells
Yep in general I think the Artificer needs more 'bang for their buck' spells. Ones that providie strong effects, basically similiar but lesser as a Warlock. They don't have a lot of spells, so they need them to stretch over the day. Strong duration buffs, or aoe attacks or strong debuffs sort of deal, along with the good utility.
Dragon's Breath I feel like wouldn't be very useful on the other two classes, but would be pretty good for the Alchemist. Though it would still be prety great for the other two classes as well, (two AOE cones on artilirst fun~). But I feel like both of the other two would have alternate actions they'd rather take, or have better aoe choices. It is absolutely perfet visualization though regardless if you're going tech or if your'e going magitech, or alchemy.
There are a ton of spells artificers probably should have, each subclass as well yep. I really look forward to them expanding the spell lists! I'm biased for Alchemists in general-who are kind of gap fill/caster styled. Some cantrips would be Sapping Strike, GRB, Booming Blade, Primal Savagery, that poison bug con save one (not great but very flavorful).
Honestly I really want to replace the alchemist subclass list. Flaming Sphere and Acid ARrow. I lvoe acid arrow, but flaming sphere doens't work with the class ability anyway. Well once it does i guess). Prayer of Healing + Acid ARrow or DRagons breath would be great!
--
I've currently got a lot of strong hopes that they'll reprint the Artificer (and in paritcular take the change to alter alchemsit) in this up coming book. Since those Feats feature ARtificer and Gun specific stuff.
maybe they'll add a bunch of spells too. and unique spells! Such as a version of the UA one that everyone liked. As well as some form of "make a temporary infusion you know via a spell slot and concentration" that would be a pretty neat unique spells.
Because it is sorcerer specific, and I mean come on. The sorcerers get shafted on just about everything. At least let them have one or two spells unique to them.
Wizards have it though? or is that a newer event?
no dragons breath was introduced in xanatar's guide to everything, where it was always available to both sorcerer and wizard, this fellow seems to be mistaken
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Yeah, Chaos Bolt is the sole sorcerer-only spell. And artificers (for obvious reasons) are the only class with spellcasting who have no unique spells at all.
Didn't even realize they didn't have dragon's breath till now...
Also can someone explain why Artificer doesn't have shield as part of their spell list? If they're just going to give it to all of the subclasses (except alchemist) why not just make it part of their spell list.
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My guess is because of thematic reasons. Armourer, artillerist, and battlesmith are all more militaristic and physical than alchemist. Alchemist seems like the odd one out, feeling more focused on chemicals and magic.
Of course, with only one subclass not having a spell, it really feels like they should just say "why not" and make it a class spell. Then they can just give different, more thematic spells to the other subclasses.
Some possible replacements:
Armourer: Armor of Agathys, Compelled Duel, Absorb Elements, or even Hellish Rebuke
Artillerist: Catapult or maybe Hunter's Mark
Battlesmith: Floating Disk? Maybe Searing Smite or Thunderous Smite? Command could even work in a way.
How to add tooltips on dndbeyond
Hunter's mark would be for battlesmith. It only works with weapon attack and generally artilirist won't be usign a weapon I think.
Could do hex though. and say its a targetting system
Hex would also thematically work with the Alchemist primarily because the material component is a petrified eye of newt, and an eye of newt is about the most stereotypical potion ingredient ever known.