For my next campaign, I'm looking to play a Bard. I'm interested in playing something more supportive than combat, a more pacifist character who would rather try to talk or think his way out of a problem than resort to violence, though is willing to throw down if given absolutely no other choice.
Thinking along the lines of The Doctor from Dr. Who.
I'm stuck between Eloquence or Lore for the subclass, but can't decide. Eloquence is insane for role-play persuasion (almost too much), but Lore Bard gives me almost as much persuasion with extra skills and spells. Can't decide if i'd rather lean more into the talking or having odd knowledge, skills, and "gadgets" to get me out of a jam.
Assuming you are using 2024 rules, I would go with Eloquence. With the changes to Magical Secrets, the Lore Bard's power has been somewhat lessened compared to other subclasses. The Eloquence Bard is amazing as a party face, and their Unsettling Words and Unfailing Inspiration turn them into great supporters/controllers. Unsettling words in particular is really potent when used in conjunction with potent single-target control spells like Banishment or Hold Monster.
The only reason I would pick College of Lore over Eloquence is if you have a build idea that hinges on stealing a spell from Wizard, Druid, or Cleric and you want to be able to nab that spell 4 levels earlier.
For my next campaign, I'm looking to play a Bard. I'm interested in playing something more supportive than combat, a more pacifist character who would rather try to talk or think his way out of a problem than resort to violence, though is willing to throw down if given absolutely no other choice.
Thinking along the lines of The Doctor from Dr. Who.
I'm stuck between Eloquence or Lore for the subclass, but can't decide. Eloquence is insane for role-play persuasion (almost too much), but Lore Bard gives me almost as much persuasion with extra skills and spells. Can't decide if i'd rather lean more into the talking or having odd knowledge, skills, and "gadgets" to get me out of a jam.
Thoughts on this?
I find Eloquence not being updated for the 2024 rules annoying so would go with lore based on that alone, but that's just me.
Silver Tongue is only good for persuasion and deception, which can only go so far with the DC's described in the DMG. I'd rather have more proficiencies and cutting words to broaden the options a bit more, which works well later with Peerless Skill. Peerless skill is also a combat accuracy bonus for those times you might need to True Strike things. Lore bards are more rounded and flexible when it comes to skills and do have that attack bonus option at higher levels. Eloquence has the option to give a saving throw penalty for more impact from casting spells.
Magical Discoveries is more spells known and access to other spell lists much earlier than other bards, and is worded slightly better for stickler DM's on the choices available. I believe advice telling you it's not worthwhile is bad advice. It's very useful into third tier play and will still always be additional spells prepared even in fourth tier play. By then the extra skill proficiencies are worth it over Jack of all Trades, and renewable Bardic Inspiration lets you play with Peerless Skill a lot.
Lore bard is definitely the route I go for a bard more focused on using skills.
Assuming you are using 2024 rules, I would go with Eloquence. With the changes to Magical Secrets, the Lore Bard's power has been somewhat lessened compared to other subclasses. The Eloquence Bard is amazing as a party face, and their Unsettling Words and Unfailing Inspiration turn them into great supporters/controllers. Unsettling words in particular is really potent when used in conjunction with potent single-target control spells like Banishment or Hold Monster.
The only reason I would pick College of Lore over Eloquence is if you have a build idea that hinges on stealing a spell from Wizard, Druid, or Cleric and you want to be able to nab that spell 4 levels earlier.
With the way access to higher level spells prepared was slowed down in the 2024 rules compared to 2014 rules the extra spells known are significant longer, IME.
Silver Tongue makes persuasion and deception easier, but on a CHA class using Expertise in either or both; and it does nothing for other useful checks like lore or insight, or ability checks that aren't associated with a skill. Peerless skill does more for the style but later.
Hardly a main point, but don't forget Lore Bard has Cutting Words. Any ability that enables you to hurl insults at enemies as a Subclass Feature is an automatic win.
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For my next campaign, I'm looking to play a Bard. I'm interested in playing something more supportive than combat, a more pacifist character who would rather try to talk or think his way out of a problem than resort to violence, though is willing to throw down if given absolutely no other choice.
Thinking along the lines of The Doctor from Dr. Who.
I'm stuck between Eloquence or Lore for the subclass, but can't decide. Eloquence is insane for role-play persuasion (almost too much), but Lore Bard gives me almost as much persuasion with extra skills and spells. Can't decide if i'd rather lean more into the talking or having odd knowledge, skills, and "gadgets" to get me out of a jam.
Thoughts on this?
Assuming you are using 2024 rules, I would go with Eloquence. With the changes to Magical Secrets, the Lore Bard's power has been somewhat lessened compared to other subclasses. The Eloquence Bard is amazing as a party face, and their Unsettling Words and Unfailing Inspiration turn them into great supporters/controllers. Unsettling words in particular is really potent when used in conjunction with potent single-target control spells like Banishment or Hold Monster.
The only reason I would pick College of Lore over Eloquence is if you have a build idea that hinges on stealing a spell from Wizard, Druid, or Cleric and you want to be able to nab that spell 4 levels earlier.
I find Eloquence not being updated for the 2024 rules annoying so would go with lore based on that alone, but that's just me.
Silver Tongue is only good for persuasion and deception, which can only go so far with the DC's described in the DMG. I'd rather have more proficiencies and cutting words to broaden the options a bit more, which works well later with Peerless Skill. Peerless skill is also a combat accuracy bonus for those times you might need to True Strike things. Lore bards are more rounded and flexible when it comes to skills and do have that attack bonus option at higher levels. Eloquence has the option to give a saving throw penalty for more impact from casting spells.
Magical Discoveries is more spells known and access to other spell lists much earlier than other bards, and is worded slightly better for stickler DM's on the choices available. I believe advice telling you it's not worthwhile is bad advice. It's very useful into third tier play and will still always be additional spells prepared even in fourth tier play. By then the extra skill proficiencies are worth it over Jack of all Trades, and renewable Bardic Inspiration lets you play with Peerless Skill a lot.
Lore bard is definitely the route I go for a bard more focused on using skills.
With the way access to higher level spells prepared was slowed down in the 2024 rules compared to 2014 rules the extra spells known are significant longer, IME.
Silver Tongue makes persuasion and deception easier, but on a CHA class using Expertise in either or both; and it does nothing for other useful checks like lore or insight, or ability checks that aren't associated with a skill. Peerless skill does more for the style but later.
Hardly a main point, but don't forget Lore Bard has Cutting Words. Any ability that enables you to hurl insults at enemies as a Subclass Feature is an automatic win.
#Open D&D
Have the Physical Books? Confused as to why you're not allowed to redeem them for free on D&D Beyond? Questions answered here at the Hardcover Books, D&D Beyond and You FAQ
Looking to add mouse-over triggered tooltips to such things like magic items, monsters or combat actions? Then dash over to the How to Add Tooltips thread.