So, what, if any, do folks find useful for dipping on an Alchemistt? Just thought i'd ask~
the obvious ones-that folks have talked about semi often have been.
Rogue-Theif dip 3lvs to get Use Item as a Bonus Action. Which lets you attack with Alch/Acid/Bomb/Etc as a bonus action, As well as administer healing potions, or Extracts or Healer Feat. heavy costt, but also can potentially up the damage a little via sneak attack, and net you some useful skills since Artificers get a few but not enough for me~
Warlock: No clue what patron or subclass though. But I have heard about this one to use the Renew on Short Rest Spell slots to fuel making elixirs. WHich just sounds great. I wonder how far people would dip for that? Gaining extra cantrips-since they have very few, is also highly useful. Not sure what you'd take for the lv 1 spell though. I doubt one has great Charisma.
These both are dips that effectively an ability that feels like the Alchemist should've had, or at least it pairs so well it feels like they should.
Are there any other short dips that people find really compelling, interesting, or mechanically sound? I'd love to hear. While my artilirist is by far more effective. I rather enjoy the utility Alchemist has--even if I don't actually have enough oomph to take advantage of it for any compelling length of time. I quite enjoy my Punching Cantrip Alchweapon Alchemist.
The usual Alchemist dip is a level of Life Domain cleric. You gain heavy armor, and you gain the Disciple of Life ability that adds 2+spell level to any healing spells you cast. People go apeshit-gaga over Healing Word Alchemists with Disciple of Life - 1d4+5+5+3, for a heal of 14-17 points on a bonus action once you max your Intelligence. Woo. A single level is all you need, or really want. Life Domain's Channel Divinity is weak unless you're a mainline cleric, and the domain spells aren't really anything special.
Beyond that? No splashes tend to jump out at me. Artificers in general don't multiclass well; they're hyper-reliant on Intelligence while every other non-Wizard class actively dislikes Intelligence, and their core features/progression don't mesh especially well with other classes. Any typical artificer/x multiclass takes the form of 'two good things next to each other"; only in rare cases like Life Domain cleric do class features actually intermesh and synergize with each other instead.
Also reminds me, that I"m sad that the lv 5 alchemist +INT to healing doesn't work with Elixirs I think
Technically, the healing Elixir already adds your intelligence modifier to healing, but they really should have added the following to the level 5 Alchemist ability:
"Additionally, whenever a creature drinks one of your experimental healing elixirs, the creature instead regains a number of hit points equal to 2d4 + double your Intelligence modifier."
Would've been neat. though I feel like adding LV might've been nice... so it felt like it scaled well
I wonder which warlock might be best for going for an Alchemist.. I don't like that class's fluff.. but it feels almost needed for actually using your elixirs. That and Elf for 4 hour trance..
otherwise it feelsl ike you just can't use anything
Theory Crafting has led me to the ideas of Sorcerer, Warlock, and Wizard as primary ideal dips.
Monk, Rogue, and possibly Cleric are secondary dips. I would struggle to take these past Lv.1, but that's for my concepts.
Monk for a level could give you solid bonus action and good AC. If you want to take further, go big. I would go a full five levels for extra attack, d6 Martial Arts, and an Tradition. Way of the Long Death and Drunken Master are thematic, but Kensei grants you a d10 weapon, Longbow, or Whip. All good options.
If you go Monk you can probably go Cleric. Not gonna go into this, but you have tons of options.
Rogue is a solid multi, for Cunning Action if you really think you need it. Your action is open and if you go 3 levels, the Inquisitor and Mastermind are great options for support. Plus, Sneak Attack if you wanna go ranged.
Sorcerers: Lots of Cantrips are always good so you vary your damage and utility. A couple of decent Spells and works fine if you only really want one level. I would say Divine or Draconic.
Divine for more Healing and Necro damage spells, and an extra free spell for your Source. You can even pick up Radiant Damage.
Draconic is alright, but not great if you only want one Lv. The bump to AC could be helpful, but that's really all you get. Going to a Third Level here could be great though.
Warlock is good for more, short rest elixirs and other Lv.1-3 goodies, including SCAG Blades and Eldritch Blast. I would make CHA your secondary stat especially here. The UA Lurker, Archfey, and Hexblade are options I like, but the others aren't bad.
Lurker does great because it offers a great use of your bonus action and also is good for flavor, with Aquatic telepathy and a swim speed.
Archery is has no real synergy, but charms can be powerful.
Hexblade's Curse is a decent bonus action and this becomes a great dip if you wanna be SAD. Great with Blade Pact, but all the Boons do great.
War Magic and Bladesinger can be really strong mixes if you go Wizard for dips.
Bladesinger adds a potential 5 AC and a melee weapon proficiency. Concentration bonus too if you wanna go Melee.
War Magic makes you a fantastic Blaster and offers great defense early on and later.
I need to read up on it more but off hand 2(edit would be 3) in the Warlock that does the book sounds compelling, the ivokation that lets ya learn all the ritual spells ever. that pairs really well with the concept of an artificer, and the flavor is potentially compelling--mystical book of magitech found as a child, lead you down your life's path until a defining moment--where you decided the power won't rule you-you will rule the power.
In that one, might be fun to start off as a Warlock with low cha, and play that up to takeing artificer at 3. but it would be a hard life I imagine.
--------
as for the double INT question. I assume because they're not double dipping in one instance. One is a spell that adds your modifier and one is an ability that adds it as a conditional rider rather than it applying sttrictly in the same instance, its a If/Then statement.
but idk really, thats jut what I assume it is, I don't know 5E r ules as welll as I do pathfinder/exalted/p2 so I might be crossing streams (thoug h I know lots of folks mention this working so i assume its right)
Option 1: 2 levels; War Magic - Arcane Deflection: +2 to AC or +4 to a saving throw as a Reaction (can't cast any spell other than a cantrip for that round afterwards) - Tactical Wit: add your INT modifier to you Initiative bonus (in addition to you DEX modifier)
Option 2: 2 levels; School of Conjuration (epecially useful once you take Keen Mind feat - Minor Conjuration
Starting at 2nd level when you select this school, you can use your action to conjure up an inanimate object in your hand or on the ground in an unoccupied space that you can see within 10 feet of you. This object can be no larger than 3 feet on a side and weigh no more than 10 pounds, and its form must be that of a nonmagical object that you have seen. The object is visibly magical, radiating dim light out to 5 feet.
The object disappears after 1 hour, when you use this feature again, or if it takes or deals any damage.
Once you've seen a non-magical device you can summon up a copy as an action. As long as you do so once every month you retain the memory of that item. The DM may require you to have Proficiency in tools related to the item, but with Keen Mind maybe not.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Watch your back, conserve your ammo, and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
Huh. that Conjuration dip.. in theory you could just uses that to make tool sets huh? Depends on what one views as an object. A single "object" or is the book listing of a "tinker tool" an object itself? Probably wouldn't work. But if it did... that'd be kind of better Right Tools for the Job. it would also help other situations where you lose your tools. Use it to make TInker, use tinker to make other tools. Or use tinnker to make tinker, without a time limit-and use this ability for whenever you need a kit you don't have.
Find myself really wishing that right tool worked like that one now haha. That is a tempting dip. THough warmage gives a lot nicer benefits--you dont have many other reactions-outside of spell strikes
Two levels of War Magic works for a few different artificer builds. It's honestly better for Battlesmith than it is for Alchemist; a battlesmith doesn't care about the casting limitation most of the time because it can just attack instead, and it's going to be armed/armored for frontline battle anyways. Adding INT to initiative goes even further to decouple the class from DX requirements, and the artificer deeply craves the freed-up cantrip slots and ritual/support casting from a level or two of wizard. Alchemists can do the same, just...less of the same.
Much like Alchemists in general, with the Rising rules.
It does sabotage the artificer's critical infusion progression and forestall badly needed midgame artificer class features, but one level of Wizard early and another level of Wizard sometime during the midgame might be manageable. I'll be experimenting with it shortly, once the Tursk campaign starts.
It'll be intersting. I'd love to get updated if you happen to think about it later.
War Mage for Alchemist sounds highly appealing (As does Bladesong if yer an elf). Alchemists can't really afford to use their slots too liberally anyway. Between Elixir, Healing, self preservation, and attack. Slots are at a premium. Or at least my alchemist never feels like I have enough-but maybe I'm playing the off support off healer wrong. *I couldn't see myself as the main healer unless I got Healer feat Healing Word or the Elixir tend to eat most of my slots so far. I don't think I've cast an attack magic.. Presumably I'll be able to guestimate an ally going down before they actually do-so I would generally only use that reaction to save my own porkbelly.
Yeah, Warmage, or maybe 3 Warlock (tome) sound compelling. Though the warlock one would be weird in that I'd onlydo that one if I started above lv 6 so I could make those earlier and start with a lower Charisma. Warmage I could see possibly taking post lv 6. I feel like I'd want to try and get to lv11 INTx2 spell item feature fast.. but it sure takes a while and it can be painful up to that point. Though the Elixir probably aren't worth the 3 dip into Warlock (for l ots of renewable spells--the ritual book is appealing though) 1 warlock probably isn't worth the lose just for the cantrips and renewable slot. Plus the 2 Wizard lets you renew 1 slot at least a day.
I don't like warlock as a dip. Yeah okay, Coffeechemist shenanery and Technically Sorta-Infinite Elixirs, but three levels is a lot to sacrifice on an artificer, nothing else from warlock helps for spit, and you only ever get two extra elixirs per short rest. Those two elixirs come at the cost of three levels of spell/slot progression on your already scant spell/slot progression, sharply delayed Infusions, and a ton of awkward story jank on top of MADness for people stuck using the crapass Standard Array method.
Two levels of wizard still sucks for the delay, but you get additional INT-based casting, the dip improves your spellslot count and thus eases the crunch a smidgeon for alchemists. As does expanded ritual casting. If you have Hero Stats and a game definitely going to epic levels, maybe warlock is a thing, but I honestly fail to see how the Coffee Barista thing is worth losing three levels of artificer progression, now that artificers are more backloaded than not.
What are your thoughts on a 3 level dip into either Arcane Trickster or Eldritch Knight? Invisible Mage Hand Legerdemain would help with administering potions/elixirs, and even a little Sneak Attack plus Cunning Action never hurts. Fighting Style, Second Wind, Action Surge, and 3d10 Hit Dice can’t be bad for the Battlesmith, or any of them for that matter.
They both also bring additional Int based Cantrips and Spells Known to the table too. And unlike other Fighter/Rogue/Monk dips at least 1 level out of the three gets added to overall “Caster Level” when multiclassing.
Sorta makes me sad I have a hard time thinking of a strong Alchemist build without dipping. I enjoy mine-but it certainly feels a tad out of sorts? Perhaps mildly case of the occasional "all I'm doing is this one attack cantrip'-itis that comes with no physical boosters and highly limited spellslots and cantrips known. I'm useful, just feels a tad out of sorts. but maybe I'm not system knowledgable enough yet.
I find myself wishing the lv 5 feature didn't restrict to only alchemist tools (but it makes sense-the other two classes require artificer spells in specific).
Arcane Archer is one i've eye balled. I really wish it wasn't only bow based. Xbow or firearm would be neat. (would be something I'd ask if I could do). I think the status effects that can be done with it would fit the Alchemist fairly fun, as well as feed in some durability that comes with being the gap filler/mid range off healer sorta thing. The combat increases would also help with the lack of multi attack or spell slots. Grasping or enfeebling arrow just sound flavorfully accurate to the Alchemist concept--creating alchemical shots. but its probably not the best idea at all. Just neat concept wise the UA psychic one is also fun-mainly because invisible mage hand and the reaction d10 reduction fits well with the Alchemist support style. But unlikely terribly useful. just neat tools.
As for rogue.. I'd want to use the UA Revived. It supports the Alchemist well IMO. Daily changes of tool profiency or skill prof. Pairs very well with the Right Tools feature. You don't have to sleep as much for long rest- and it gives you a bonus action attack. Sneak attack damage+dex necrotic. Alchemist has no bonus action. 30ft range but not terrible there. Gives you some nicer weapon profs (as does fighter)--though no extra attacks on an alchemist. (also find it odd they don't get whip).
but I am very weird builder I am realizing. I really like ARcane Archer's shots but don't like bows. really like the revived's utility and bonus action attack. (sure 2d6+dex ever but.. still not too bad)
Arcane Trickster (or any Rogue sub) offers Alchemists a useful bonus action and a minor bump in damage from Baby Sneak Attack. Trickster in particular offers a few spells and the Well of Endless Shenanery that is Trickster's Mage Hand, but it doesn't jive strongly with anything else the artificer does. You get a small (if still useful) handful of extra spells, Baby Sneak Attack, and Cunning Action in exchange for slowed slot progression, slowed Infusion progression, and delayed access to critical lategame artificer features.
Eldritch Knight is in a similar boat. You do get martial proficiency, as well as heavy armor if you do the dumb "take my dip at first level because gamer" thing. There's less proficiency overlap between fighter and artificer, no duplication of thieves' tools, but you also don't gain a bonus skill prof the way you do by dipping rogue. You get no useful bonus action, but you get Action Surge and Baby Second Wind, a choice of fighting style (probably Archery or Defense, depending on), and Weapon Bond. It...doesn't really enhance anything else the Alchemist does, either. Just adds some basic fighter options at the expense of higher-level artificer options, with no noteworthy interplay or synergy between features.
Arcane Archer, beyond just being bad at life in general, is in a similar boat. No real interplay between features, no meshing of options. Just two sets of options standing next to each other, rather than working hand in hand.
Of the three, Trickster is probably your best bet just for a bit of extra Intelligence casting and some of the default Rogue options. Fighting styles don't work well on artificers that aren't Battlesmiths (which will happily snag that first fighter level at some point, if class capstones aren't involved), and the Alchemist is in a weird place regardless. It wants to attack with spells so Sneak Attack is a waste, but it's quite bad at doing so. Without a solid bonus action it just...doesn't do much.
Its honestly kinda difficult cause there isn’t much that you can add to make sense, while maintaining INT focus for spells and whatnot.
A flavorful, if not very useful, class dip could be a Trasmutation wizard. You add a little influx of magic, with some Baby Arcane Recovery and depending on how many levels you take (i would say no more than 5 or 6) you get more spell slots in the end.
You can say that wildshape is an alchemical transformation. Getting cantrips like druidcraft or plant growth would help with alchemy ingredients maybe. You can also pick up poison spray for fun.
Heyo.
So, what, if any, do folks find useful for dipping on an Alchemistt? Just thought i'd ask~
the obvious ones-that folks have talked about semi often have been.
Rogue-Theif dip 3lvs to get Use Item as a Bonus Action. Which lets you attack with Alch/Acid/Bomb/Etc as a bonus action, As well as administer healing potions, or Extracts or Healer Feat. heavy costt, but also can potentially up the damage a little via sneak attack, and net you some useful skills since Artificers get a few but not enough for me~
Warlock: No clue what patron or subclass though. But I have heard about this one to use the Renew on Short Rest Spell slots to fuel making elixirs. WHich just sounds great. I wonder how far people would dip for that? Gaining extra cantrips-since they have very few, is also highly useful. Not sure what you'd take for the lv 1 spell though. I doubt one has great Charisma.
These both are dips that effectively an ability that feels like the Alchemist should've had, or at least it pairs so well it feels like they should.
Are there any other short dips that people find really compelling, interesting, or mechanically sound?
I'd love to hear. While my artilirist is by far more effective. I rather enjoy the utility Alchemist has--even if I don't actually have enough oomph to take advantage of it for any compelling length of time. I quite enjoy my Punching Cantrip Alchweapon Alchemist.
The usual Alchemist dip is a level of Life Domain cleric. You gain heavy armor, and you gain the Disciple of Life ability that adds 2+spell level to any healing spells you cast. People go apeshit-gaga over Healing Word Alchemists with Disciple of Life - 1d4+5+5+3, for a heal of 14-17 points on a bonus action once you max your Intelligence. Woo. A single level is all you need, or really want. Life Domain's Channel Divinity is weak unless you're a mainline cleric, and the domain spells aren't really anything special.
Beyond that? No splashes tend to jump out at me. Artificers in general don't multiclass well; they're hyper-reliant on Intelligence while every other non-Wizard class actively dislikes Intelligence, and their core features/progression don't mesh especially well with other classes. Any typical artificer/x multiclass takes the form of 'two good things next to each other"; only in rare cases like Life Domain cleric do class features actually intermesh and synergize with each other instead.
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Oh life cleric is one I missed.
Also reminds me, that I"m sad that the lv 5 alchemist +INT to healing doesn't work with Elixirs I think
Wizard.
2 levels gives two full extra levels of spellslots access to a ton of rituals without prepping and your specialist ability.
1 more gives you 2nd level spells and rituals and another full caster level.
If you're considering a battlesmith dex build Bladesinger is rather fun.
Either way all SAD.
Technically, the healing Elixir already adds your intelligence modifier to healing, but they really should have added the following to the level 5 Alchemist ability:
"Additionally, whenever a creature drinks one of your experimental healing elixirs, the creature instead regains a number of hit points equal to 2d4 + double your Intelligence modifier."
Would've been neat.
though I feel like adding LV might've been nice... so it felt like it scaled well
I wonder which warlock might be best for going for an Alchemist.. I don't like that class's fluff.. but it feels almost needed for actually using your elixirs.
That and Elf for 4 hour trance..
otherwise it feelsl ike you just can't use anything
I've seen fighter 1 or paladin 2 and forge cleric 1 for +2 AC, martial proficiencies, healing word and shield of faith.
Rogue 1 or lore bard 3 for skills and expertise. Rogue 2 for cunning action.
Wizard 2-3 for reasons already stated.
can you really get double int on your healing spells? i keep seeing talk about it but i could have sworn you couldn't double dip stat bonus's.
Theory Crafting has led me to the ideas of Sorcerer, Warlock, and Wizard as primary ideal dips.
Monk, Rogue, and possibly Cleric are secondary dips. I would struggle to take these past Lv.1, but that's for my concepts.
Monk for a level could give you solid bonus action and good AC. If you want to take further, go big. I would go a full five levels for extra attack, d6 Martial Arts, and an Tradition. Way of the Long Death and Drunken Master are thematic, but Kensei grants you a d10 weapon, Longbow, or Whip. All good options.
If you go Monk you can probably go Cleric. Not gonna go into this, but you have tons of options.
Rogue is a solid multi, for Cunning Action if you really think you need it. Your action is open and if you go 3 levels, the Inquisitor and Mastermind are great options for support. Plus, Sneak Attack if you wanna go ranged.
Sorcerers: Lots of Cantrips are always good so you vary your damage and utility. A couple of decent Spells and works fine if you only really want one level. I would say Divine or Draconic.
Divine for more Healing and Necro damage spells, and an extra free spell for your Source. You can even pick up Radiant Damage.
Draconic is alright, but not great if you only want one Lv. The bump to AC could be helpful, but that's really all you get. Going to a Third Level here could be great though.
Warlock is good for more, short rest elixirs and other Lv.1-3 goodies, including SCAG Blades and Eldritch Blast. I would make CHA your secondary stat especially here. The UA Lurker, Archfey, and Hexblade are options I like, but the others aren't bad.
Lurker does great because it offers a great use of your bonus action and also is good for flavor, with Aquatic telepathy and a swim speed.
Archery is has no real synergy, but charms can be powerful.
Hexblade's Curse is a decent bonus action and this becomes a great dip if you wanna be SAD. Great with Blade Pact, but all the Boons do great.
War Magic and Bladesinger can be really strong mixes if you go Wizard for dips.
Bladesinger adds a potential 5 AC and a melee weapon proficiency. Concentration bonus too if you wanna go Melee.
War Magic makes you a fantastic Blaster and offers great defense early on and later.
I need to read up on it more but off hand 2(edit would be 3) in the Warlock that does the book sounds compelling, the ivokation that lets ya learn all the ritual spells ever. that pairs really well with the concept of an artificer, and the flavor is potentially compelling--mystical book of magitech found as a child, lead you down your life's path until a defining moment--where you decided the power won't rule you-you will rule the power.
In that one, might be fun to start off as a Warlock with low cha, and play that up to takeing artificer at 3. but it would be a hard life I imagine.
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as for the double INT question. I assume because they're not double dipping in one instance. One is a spell that adds your modifier and one is an ability that adds it as a conditional rider rather than it applying sttrictly in the same instance, its a If/Then statement.
but idk really, thats jut what I assume it is, I don't know 5E r ules as welll as I do pathfinder/exalted/p2 so I might be crossing streams (thoug h I know lots of folks mention this working so i assume its right)
Wizard
Option 1: 2 levels; War Magic
- Arcane Deflection: +2 to AC or +4 to a saving throw as a Reaction (can't cast any spell other than a cantrip for that round afterwards)
- Tactical Wit: add your INT modifier to you Initiative bonus (in addition to you DEX modifier)
Option 2: 2 levels; School of Conjuration (epecially useful once you take Keen Mind feat
- Minor Conjuration
Once you've seen a non-magical device you can summon up a copy as an action. As long as you do so once every month you retain the memory of that item. The DM may require you to have Proficiency in tools related to the item, but with Keen Mind maybe not.
Watch your back, conserve your ammo,
and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
Huh. that Conjuration dip.. in theory you could just uses that to make tool sets huh? Depends on what one views as an object. A single "object" or is the book listing of a "tinker tool" an object itself? Probably wouldn't work. But if it did... that'd be kind of better Right Tools for the Job.
it would also help other situations where you lose your tools. Use it to make TInker, use tinker to make other tools. Or use tinnker to make tinker, without a time limit-and use this ability for whenever you need a kit you don't have.
Find myself really wishing that right tool worked like that one now haha. That is a tempting dip. THough warmage gives a lot nicer benefits--you dont have many other reactions-outside of spell strikes
Two levels of War Magic works for a few different artificer builds. It's honestly better for Battlesmith than it is for Alchemist; a battlesmith doesn't care about the casting limitation most of the time because it can just attack instead, and it's going to be armed/armored for frontline battle anyways. Adding INT to initiative goes even further to decouple the class from DX requirements, and the artificer deeply craves the freed-up cantrip slots and ritual/support casting from a level or two of wizard. Alchemists can do the same, just...less of the same.
Much like Alchemists in general, with the Rising rules.
It does sabotage the artificer's critical infusion progression and forestall badly needed midgame artificer class features, but one level of Wizard early and another level of Wizard sometime during the midgame might be manageable. I'll be experimenting with it shortly, once the Tursk campaign starts.
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It'll be intersting. I'd love to get updated if you happen to think about it later.
War Mage for Alchemist sounds highly appealing (As does Bladesong if yer an elf). Alchemists can't really afford to use their slots too liberally anyway. Between Elixir, Healing, self preservation, and attack. Slots are at a premium. Or at least my alchemist never feels like I have enough-but maybe I'm playing the off support off healer wrong. *I couldn't see myself as the main healer unless I got Healer feat Healing Word or the Elixir tend to eat most of my slots so far. I don't think I've cast an attack magic.. Presumably I'll be able to guestimate an ally going down before they actually do-so I would generally only use that reaction to save my own porkbelly.
Yeah, Warmage, or maybe 3 Warlock (tome) sound compelling. Though the warlock one would be weird in that I'd onlydo that one if I started above lv 6 so I could make those earlier and start with a lower Charisma. Warmage I could see possibly taking post lv 6. I feel like I'd want to try and get to lv11 INTx2 spell item feature fast.. but it sure takes a while and it can be painful up to that point. Though the Elixir probably aren't worth the 3 dip into Warlock (for l ots of renewable spells--the ritual book is appealing though) 1 warlock probably isn't worth the lose just for the cantrips and renewable slot. Plus the 2 Wizard lets you renew 1 slot at least a day.
I don't like warlock as a dip. Yeah okay, Coffeechemist shenanery and Technically Sorta-Infinite Elixirs, but three levels is a lot to sacrifice on an artificer, nothing else from warlock helps for spit, and you only ever get two extra elixirs per short rest. Those two elixirs come at the cost of three levels of spell/slot progression on your already scant spell/slot progression, sharply delayed Infusions, and a ton of awkward story jank on top of MADness for people stuck using the crapass Standard Array method.
Two levels of wizard still sucks for the delay, but you get additional INT-based casting, the dip improves your spellslot count and thus eases the crunch a smidgeon for alchemists. As does expanded ritual casting. If you have Hero Stats and a game definitely going to epic levels, maybe warlock is a thing, but I honestly fail to see how the Coffee Barista thing is worth losing three levels of artificer progression, now that artificers are more backloaded than not.
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What are your thoughts on a 3 level dip into either Arcane Trickster or Eldritch Knight? Invisible Mage Hand Legerdemain would help with administering potions/elixirs, and even a little Sneak Attack plus Cunning Action never hurts. Fighting Style, Second Wind, Action Surge, and 3d10 Hit Dice can’t be bad for the Battlesmith, or any of them for that matter.
They both also bring additional Int based Cantrips and Spells Known to the table too. And unlike other Fighter/Rogue/Monk dips at least 1 level out of the three gets added to overall “Caster Level” when multiclassing.
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Sorta makes me sad I have a hard time thinking of a strong Alchemist build without dipping.
I enjoy mine-but it certainly feels a tad out of sorts? Perhaps mildly case of the occasional "all I'm doing is this one attack cantrip'-itis that comes with no physical boosters and highly limited spellslots and cantrips known. I'm useful, just feels a tad out of sorts. but maybe I'm not system knowledgable enough yet.
I find myself wishing the lv 5 feature didn't restrict to only alchemist tools (but it makes sense-the other two classes require artificer spells in specific).
Arcane Archer is one i've eye balled. I really wish it wasn't only bow based. Xbow or firearm would be neat. (would be something I'd ask if I could do). I think the status effects that can be done with it would fit the Alchemist fairly fun, as well as feed in some durability that comes with being the gap filler/mid range off healer sorta thing. The combat increases would also help with the lack of multi attack or spell slots. Grasping or enfeebling arrow just sound flavorfully accurate to the Alchemist concept--creating alchemical shots.
but its probably not the best idea at all. Just neat concept wise
the UA psychic one is also fun-mainly because invisible mage hand and the reaction d10 reduction fits well with the Alchemist support style. But unlikely terribly useful. just neat tools.
As for rogue.. I'd want to use the UA Revived. It supports the Alchemist well IMO. Daily changes of tool profiency or skill prof. Pairs very well with the Right Tools feature. You don't have to sleep as much for long rest- and it gives you a bonus action attack. Sneak attack damage+dex necrotic. Alchemist has no bonus action. 30ft range but not terrible there. Gives you some nicer weapon profs (as does fighter)--though no extra attacks on an alchemist. (also find it odd they don't get whip).
but I am very weird builder I am realizing.
I really like ARcane Archer's shots but don't like bows. really like the revived's utility and bonus action attack. (sure 2d6+dex ever but.. still not too bad)
Arcane Trickster (or any Rogue sub) offers Alchemists a useful bonus action and a minor bump in damage from Baby Sneak Attack. Trickster in particular offers a few spells and the Well of Endless Shenanery that is Trickster's Mage Hand, but it doesn't jive strongly with anything else the artificer does. You get a small (if still useful) handful of extra spells, Baby Sneak Attack, and Cunning Action in exchange for slowed slot progression, slowed Infusion progression, and delayed access to critical lategame artificer features.
Eldritch Knight is in a similar boat. You do get martial proficiency, as well as heavy armor if you do the dumb "take my dip at first level because gamer" thing. There's less proficiency overlap between fighter and artificer, no duplication of thieves' tools, but you also don't gain a bonus skill prof the way you do by dipping rogue. You get no useful bonus action, but you get Action Surge and Baby Second Wind, a choice of fighting style (probably Archery or Defense, depending on), and Weapon Bond. It...doesn't really enhance anything else the Alchemist does, either. Just adds some basic fighter options at the expense of higher-level artificer options, with no noteworthy interplay or synergy between features.
Arcane Archer, beyond just being bad at life in general, is in a similar boat. No real interplay between features, no meshing of options. Just two sets of options standing next to each other, rather than working hand in hand.
Of the three, Trickster is probably your best bet just for a bit of extra Intelligence casting and some of the default Rogue options. Fighting styles don't work well on artificers that aren't Battlesmiths (which will happily snag that first fighter level at some point, if class capstones aren't involved), and the Alchemist is in a weird place regardless. It wants to attack with spells so Sneak Attack is a waste, but it's quite bad at doing so. Without a solid bonus action it just...doesn't do much.
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Its honestly kinda difficult cause there isn’t much that you can add to make sense, while maintaining INT focus for spells and whatnot.
A flavorful, if not very useful, class dip could be a Trasmutation wizard. You add a little influx of magic, with some Baby Arcane Recovery and depending on how many levels you take (i would say no more than 5 or 6) you get more spell slots in the end.
Druid dip could be useful, but mostly flavorful.
You can say that wildshape is an alchemical transformation. Getting cantrips like druidcraft or plant growth would help with alchemy ingredients maybe. You can also pick up poison spray for fun.
Also known as CrafterB and DankMemer.
Here, have some homebrew classes! Subclasses to? Why not races. Feats, feats as well. I have a lot of magic items. Lastly I got monsters, fun, fun times.