I've made a gnome artificer for our Descent into Avernus game. His name is Egon von Venkman and he rides his steel defender, ECTO-1. I would like to make sure that I'm adhering as closely as possible to the mounted combat rules and not taking undue advantage of the DMs patience for my ridiculousness. Given the RAW/RAI, how would a typical turn go if I were to treat the defender as an uncontrolled mount or a controlled mount? Would I still be able to command it as a bonus action to attack using Force Empowered Rend or is it limited to Dodge, Disengage, or Dash?
For further context, my gnome is using a lance and a shield from the back of the defender and I'm trying to avoid the disadvantage to attacking a target within 5 feet of me.
Now this seems irritating, but the rules are actually conflicting here
Steel defender has rules that it takes it's turn after yours
Controlled mounts have rules that they move during your turn
Specific trumps generic, but animal existing to animal being mounted is a specific rule, while animal existing to animal having steel defender rules is also a specific rule, so when you apply them together, you get two conflicting specific rules
If you use it as a superset, then the steel defender can move on your turn, and also do all normal steel defender actions after your turn, potentially moving up to double it's speed per round.
If you apply it as a subset, then the steel defender cannot act or move at all because it never gets a turn.
Clearly, the answer lies somewhere in the middle
A fair ruling would be that your steel defender gets it's movement speed per *round*, and can use it on your turn, or on its turn following your turn, not doubling your movement.
I would agree that allowing it to move twice (granting it a movement speed of 80 ft!) is crazy! So is it necessarily a bad thing that it can move and use it's bonus action for force rend while I am also simultaneously taking my turn? Truth be told, I'm not sure there's too much of a downside since I'll lose that bonus action if I have to order it to take the disengage action or dodge.
Like Moscato said, this sounds like a case where you want to sit down and have a conversation with your DM. The interactions are jankish and prone to confusion - the best course of action would be to get in touch with the person whose job is deciding janky rules and let them know this jank is coming ahead of time. We could all tell you how we'd run it if we were your DM, but none of us are your DM and our opinions don't count for spit.
If that came up at my table I would rule that when you’re mounted it follows mount rules, and when you’re not it follows Steel Defender rules. But as Yurei pointed out, I’m not your DM.
Your steel defender can do any actions on its card, or any mounted actions, and shares a turn with you.
As a player I would love this! But yes, I'll have to speak to my DM about it, as previous comments have clearly suggested. Thanks for the opinions, people!
So the way I've been playing my gnome steel defender mounted character is that: to get into combat, on my turn, I use my reaction to ready action attack (green-flame blade) once I get into melee, then command my T-Rex defender as a bonus action to attack/dash/disengage then it moves to my specified target at which time my held action goes off and it attacks if that was my bonus action command for it.
If I am already in melee and fifth level or higher, I attack twice, and bonus action command it to attack as well or could command it to disengage instead to avoid either of us being hit by an opportunity attack.
If using my lance, I use my reaction to ready action attack (only once) when I get into melee, then command my T-Rex defender as a bonus action to use the dash action (giving it 80 ft movement) then it moves past my specified target at which time my held action one lance attack goes off and it continues to move and because I have 10' reach with the lance neither of us would provoke an opportunity attack unless the target also has reach.
Well, since you can control it in ways other than the typical mount controlling I believe if you just let it act on its own and command it normally it should work fine. Ask your DM though.
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Hello Everyone,
I've made a gnome artificer for our Descent into Avernus game. His name is Egon von Venkman and he rides his steel defender, ECTO-1. I would like to make sure that I'm adhering as closely as possible to the mounted combat rules and not taking undue advantage of the DMs patience for my ridiculousness. Given the RAW/RAI, how would a typical turn go if I were to treat the defender as an uncontrolled mount or a controlled mount? Would I still be able to command it as a bonus action to attack using Force Empowered Rend or is it limited to Dodge, Disengage, or Dash?
For further context, my gnome is using a lance and a shield from the back of the defender and I'm trying to avoid the disadvantage to attacking a target within 5 feet of me.
Thanks!
This got discussed to death on Reddit
The end result was
Talk to your DM
Now this seems irritating, but the rules are actually conflicting here
Steel defender has rules that it takes it's turn after yours
Controlled mounts have rules that they move during your turn
Specific trumps generic, but animal existing to animal being mounted is a specific rule, while animal existing to animal having steel defender rules is also a specific rule, so when you apply them together, you get two conflicting specific rules
If you use it as a superset, then the steel defender can move on your turn, and also do all normal steel defender actions after your turn, potentially moving up to double it's speed per round.
If you apply it as a subset, then the steel defender cannot act or move at all because it never gets a turn.
Clearly, the answer lies somewhere in the middle
A fair ruling would be that your steel defender gets it's movement speed per *round*, and can use it on your turn, or on its turn following your turn, not doubling your movement.
I would agree that allowing it to move twice (granting it a movement speed of 80 ft!) is crazy! So is it necessarily a bad thing that it can move and use it's bonus action for force rend while I am also simultaneously taking my turn? Truth be told, I'm not sure there's too much of a downside since I'll lose that bonus action if I have to order it to take the disengage action or dodge.
Like Moscato said, this sounds like a case where you want to sit down and have a conversation with your DM. The interactions are jankish and prone to confusion - the best course of action would be to get in touch with the person whose job is deciding janky rules and let them know this jank is coming ahead of time. We could all tell you how we'd run it if we were your DM, but none of us are your DM and our opinions don't count for spit.
Please do not contact or message me.
If that came up at my table I would rule that when you’re mounted it follows mount rules, and when you’re not it follows Steel Defender rules. But as Yurei pointed out, I’m not your DM.
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For sake of simplicity, I'd work our with your GM to add maybe one or two additional actions to add to "Dash, Disengage, and Dodge."
From what most people seem to be aiming for, they want more than "just a normal mount" and less than "playing a two-headed creature."
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The fairest option here would be
Your steel defender can do any actions on its card, or any mounted actions, and shares a turn with you.
As a player I would love this! But yes, I'll have to speak to my DM about it, as previous comments have clearly suggested. Thanks for the opinions, people!
So the way I've been playing my gnome steel defender mounted character is that: to get into combat, on my turn, I use my reaction to ready action attack (green-flame blade) once I get into melee, then command my T-Rex defender as a bonus action to attack/dash/disengage then it moves to my specified target at which time my held action goes off and it attacks if that was my bonus action command for it.
If I am already in melee and fifth level or higher, I attack twice, and bonus action command it to attack as well or could command it to disengage instead to avoid either of us being hit by an opportunity attack.
If using my lance, I use my reaction to ready action attack (only once) when I get into melee, then command my T-Rex defender as a bonus action to use the dash action (giving it 80 ft movement) then it moves past my specified target at which time my held action one lance attack goes off and it continues to move and because I have 10' reach with the lance neither of us would provoke an opportunity attack unless the target also has reach.
Does this all sound correct?
This isn't actually a signature, just something I copy and paste onto the bottom of all my posts. Or is it? Yep, it is. Or is it..? I’m a hobbit, and the master cranial imploder of the "Oops, I Accidently Destroyed Someone's Brain" cult. Extended sig. I'm actually in Limbo, it says I'm in Mechanus because that's where I get my WiFi from. Please don't tell the modrons, they're still angry from the 'Spawning Stone' fiasco.
No connection to Dragonslayer8 other than knowing them in real life.
I was thinking along the same lines... would you still get your 2 attacks with the ready action?