There's an argument to be made that Magic Initiate is still a better choice for artificers than Artificer Initiate, as MI gives you two cantrips. if you back-hack the "you can cast the spell with any other slots you have" language into Magic Initiate (which seems eminently fair), then MI is two cantrips and a first-level with a much broader selection range for both lists versus a cantrip and first-level from a selection you already have access to, as well as one bonus tool proficiency. That's still quite good, but unless you're using Artificer Initiate to get up to shenanigans with the Alchemist (i.e. using the feat's ability to extend your tools-as-a-focus 'Alchemical Savant' power to any Intelligence spell), you generally have enough tool proficiencies to do your core job.
I would personally be more inclined to use the MI ruling that you can only use spell slots to cast the spell if you chose the same class for the feat as your own class. Normally I would go your way, but in this case I think it actually adds a little balance back into the mix.
And weren’t you the one who wanted to take Skilled for the extra tool proficiency?
-“You have advantage on Constitution saving throws that you make to maintain your concentration on a spell when you take damage.”. While the artificer has proficiency in constitution saving throws, which includes concentration checks, they have more limited spell slots. Having advantage on those concentration she is will give a higher chance to squeeze more use out of each of your spell slots is valuable. Even if you play tactically well, you’re still probably going to get pegged by an AOE or ranged eventually. Really starts to matter when you start getting hit for chunks of 30 or more damage. At high levels this gives you a chance to actually tank an ancient red dragons breath attack and continue concentrating, especially when combined with absorb elements and your other saving throw features.
-“You can perform the somatic components of spells even when you have weapons or a shield in one or both hands.”. most players and DMs seem to still be trying to figure out if an artificer adds the (M) component to all spells they cast because of their class spellcasting description. My table accepts the (M) addition to all spells and as such this particular benefit doesn’t matter much for an artificer at my table.
-“When a hostile creature's movement provokes an opportunity attack from you, you can use your reaction to cast a spell at the creature, rather than making an opportunity attack. The spell must have a casting time of 1 action and must target only that creature.”. Can be quite a good way to use one’s reaction. There seems to be a wide variation of play for how often attacks of opportunity take place. This is probably caused by “tactical” players/DMs attempting to mitigate damage by having their characters almost never move. While some tables enjoy playing this way, this would devalue this feature. There are also a few ways to force a creature to provoke attacks of opportunity, such as the spell dissonant whispers. Your mileage may vary greatly with this feature. I recently played with a cleric who happened to crit with his cast of inflict wounds from an opportunity attack, and he was quite happy with the choice he made. As far as an artificer goes, the spell options to actually target a single creature that provoked the attack of opportunity are pretty limited. Some cantrips can be reliable like shocking grasp or thornwhip since they are melee attacks and not made at disadvantage. Spell choices of first level or higher seem to be very limited as they are mostly either ranged attack or high spell level saving throw that you are very limited In using. High elf racial cantrip choice for booming blade may solve this for a battlesmith.
The Armorer I previously mentioned has another ASI up, for level 12 now. He took Sharpshooter.
I'm torn between Lucky, Tough, Mobile, to make him better at what he does already, and taking Skilled or Prodigy in face skills, even though Charisma is his dump stat, because he often ends up doing the smart talking. Most of the rest of the usual party are martial. His last session saw him bamboozle a bunch of ogres by using Enlarge/Reduce and Disguise Self to portray himself as an ogre mage.
His Charisma is only 8, but he has a Luckstone (+1 to all ability checks), proficiency of +4, 5 charges of +5 Flash of Genius, and a custom item enchantment allowing a 1d10 bonus per short rest on any check. Also, the Spell storing item class feature offering 10 charges of Enhance Ability to confer advantage. That's a lot of stacking bonuses!
My thinking is he could take some combination of Persuasion, Deception, Insight, or Intimidation.
I'm also aware Lucky could boost those rare social checks, while offering more general purpose uses, particularly saves against high damage area effect spells, my biggest fear. Tough is nice but he rarely takes much damage.
Prodigy isn't so important because our downtime rules offer easy language and tool training opportunities. If he went all in on Arcana expertise, his bonus on that would be +14 or so. Alternatively, he could become quite ambassadorial with Persuasion expertise, a respectable +8, with all the bonuses he has available on top.
He is dean of a college and involved in some political intrigue, so some face skills would really help there.
The Armorer I previously mentioned has another ASI up, for level 12 now. He took Sharpshooter.
I'm torn between Lucky, Tough, Mobile, to make him better at what he does already, and taking Skilled or Prodigy in face skills, even though Charisma is his dump stat, because he often ends up doing the smart talking. Most of the rest of the usual party are martial. His last session saw him bamboozle a bunch of ogres by using Enlarge/Reduce and Disguise Self to portray himself as an ogre mage.
His Charisma is only 8, but he has a Luckstone (+1 to all ability checks), proficiency of +4, 5 charges of +5 Flash of Genius, and a custom item enchantment allowing a 1d10 bonus per short rest on any check. Also, the Spell storing item class feature offering 10 charges of Enhance Ability to confer advantage. That's a lot of stacking bonuses!
My thinking is he could take some combination of Persuasion, Deception, Insight, or Intimidation.
I'm also aware Lucky could boost those rare social checks, while offering more general purpose uses, particularly saves against high damage area effect spells, my biggest fear. Tough is nice but he rarely takes much damage.
Prodigy isn't so important because our downtime rules offer easy language and tool training opportunities. If he went all in on Arcana expertise, his bonus on that would be +14 or so. Alternatively, he could become quite ambassadorial with Persuasion expertise, a respectable +8, with all the bonuses he has available on top.
He is dean of a college and involved in some political intrigue, so some face skills would really help there.
Sounds like Skilled or Lucky is the way to go. As a side note, remember the variant rule to use skills with different abilities. Maybe your skill in convincing (or decieving) people isn't as much your stunnin personality but rather your ability to technobabble until people don't understand a word your saying? That would Persuasion/Deception with Intelligence instead of Charisma. The second edition of the Warhammer RPG had my favourite version of this, the skill "Blather". It was basically just the character talking BS enough to convince/confuse/distract people enough for a slight advantage in certain situations. :P
The Armorer I previously mentioned has another ASI up, for level 12 now. He took Sharpshooter.
I'm torn between Lucky, Tough, Mobile, to make him better at what he does already, and taking Skilled or Prodigy in face skills, even though Charisma is his dump stat, because he often ends up doing the smart talking. Most of the rest of the usual party are martial. His last session saw him bamboozle a bunch of ogres by using Enlarge/Reduce and Disguise Self to portray himself as an ogre mage.
His Charisma is only 8, but he has a Luckstone (+1 to all ability checks), proficiency of +4, 5 charges of +5 Flash of Genius, and a custom item enchantment allowing a 1d10 bonus per short rest on any check. Also, the Spell storing item class feature offering 10 charges of Enhance Ability to confer advantage. That's a lot of stacking bonuses!
My thinking is he could take some combination of Persuasion, Deception, Insight, or Intimidation.
I'm also aware Lucky could boost those rare social checks, while offering more general purpose uses, particularly saves against high damage area effect spells, my biggest fear. Tough is nice but he rarely takes much damage.
Prodigy isn't so important because our downtime rules offer easy language and tool training opportunities. If he went all in on Arcana expertise, his bonus on that would be +14 or so. Alternatively, he could become quite ambassadorial with Persuasion expertise, a respectable +8, with all the bonuses he has available on top.
He is dean of a college and involved in some political intrigue, so some face skills would really help there.
Sounds like Skilled or Lucky is the way to go. As a side note, remember the variant rule to use skills with different abilities. Maybe your skill in convincing (or decieving) people isn't as much your stunnin personality but rather your ability to technobabble until people don't understand a word your saying? That would Persuasion/Deception with Intelligence instead of Charisma. The second edition of the Warhammer RPG had my favourite version of this, the skill "Blather". It was basically just the character talking BS enough to convince/confuse/distract people enough for a slight advantage in certain situations. :P
That's actually a really good idea. He's very much that kind of supernerd character.
That's still quite good, but unless you're using Artificer Initiate to get up to shenanigans with the Alchemist (i.e. using the feat's ability to extend your tools-as-a-focus 'Alchemical Savant' power to any Intelligence spell), you generally have enough tool proficiencies to do your core job.
Unfortunately, this wouldn't work, unless you're talking about doubling up with MI(wizard) to allow you to cast them using your alchemists supplies, which I suppose the spells taken at that point would be Chill Touch, Burning Hands and Infestation or Toll the Dead?
I know, I know, I know. Everybody says it's one of the worst feats in the game. Everybody's wrong, especially for artificers. Skilled is one of exactly one ways to acquire more tool proficiencies if you're not a human or half-human, and artificers need tool proficiencies. If you want to try and take advantage of making your own shit, every tool you can bring to bear on the task is a lifesaver - especially when you get to tenth level and start trying to craft every single Uncommon or lower magic item in the books.
Jeweler's tools, woodcarver's tools, smith's tools, mason's tools, alchemist's supplies, leatherworker's tools. Absolute basics to work with gems, wood, metal, stone, 'Essentia', or hide. For more specialized items, the DM may call for shit like Cobbler's tools (wanna make magic boots? Gotta be able to make regular boots first), Weaver's tools (can't make magic clothes if you can't make regular clothes), or other item-specific options. Now admittedly, most DMs will likely let you make a "close enough" roll, and some of them might even just let you buy the base item.
But it's still fun to be able to say "Hey! I'm making Boots of Haste. I have smithing, leatherworking, and cobbling proficiency. I can take a chunk of iron ore and a dead cow and produce fine boots. Is that worth a reduced DC maybe, because I have total control over the entire process?"
Skilled. It's good. Take it.
Is there a crafting table yet? My DM isn't making me roll checks because we have nothing to work with.
Crafting custom items, or even just crafting regular items, tends to be on a table-by-table basis because none of the books have anything worthwhile written in them for crafting. Everybody more or less has to invent their own rules, or at least talk to their DM about how it works. In most cases the artificer's basic class features will inform crafting rules - their tool Expertise, their profusion of crafting kits and tools, the rules for reduced crafting time built into the class itself. But how the eventual endgame shakes out is dependent on DM.
I'm really liking the look of UA Practised Expert for my next ASI. I know the extra skill proficiency has the same issues as the Skilled feat, but expertise in a skill will be very tasty. I was always bothered by the only way to really get expertise in anything was through class trees.
Practiced Expert is fantastic for basically everything. A half ASI of your choice, an extra skill or tool proficiency, and Expertise in one key skill/tool. Artificers already get plenty of tool expertise, but having Expertise in Investigation or Arcana, or whatever else fits your character, is pretty heckin' excellent. It's easily a viable competitor to Prodigy; in many cases it's going to be better simply because a lot of people don't care about anything in Prodigy except the Expertise point, and Practiced Expert gives you that plus a stat nudge. If your DM lets you take it, it's golden.
Very strongly considering it myself for my own next ASI, and my artificer already has both Skilled and Linguist. Expertise in Investigation would be awesome though, and she'd FINALLY get that Stealth proficiency I've wanted her to have for forever. Probably.
I've been tempted by the stealth proficiency, but I think I'm going to get smiths tools. It fits with newly revealed background details, as well as the practicality of making magic armour would just be too much to miss. I was looking for the +1 to int as I'm already at 19 and just needed that push to get the most out of all the abilities tied to intelligence mods. I was eyeing prodigy for the expertise, but the last of an ASI really put a dent in it.
I love spell sniper to get Chill Touch. On my Alchemist I pair that with Thorn Whip to prevent healing, or otherwise manipulate the battle field. Sure I don't get the level 5 +INT damage. But instead I get an open hand, or a shield + EAF. That ability only works for like 7 spells anyway. I still use it for healing though. Even if I end up dropping EAF for it.
Would this not still work? Chill Touch is necrotic. "That roll must restore hit points or be a damage roll that deals acid, fire, necrotic, or poison damage, and the bonus equals your Intelligence modifier (minimum of +1)."
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Incantis, half-elf warlock (great old one) 4/bard 1 ● Thorok Earthhand, hill dwarf mountain druid 6/grave cleric 2
Cragmyre Ironseed, earth genasi ancestral barbarian 3 ● Cyrus Natriallae, aquatic half-elf warlock of the deep 3
I love spell sniper to get Chill Touch. On my Alchemist I pair that with Thorn Whip to prevent healing, or otherwise manipulate the battle field. Sure I don't get the level 5 +INT damage. But instead I get an open hand, or a shield + EAF. That ability only works for like 7 spells anyway. I still use it for healing though. Even if I end up dropping EAF for it.
Would this not still work? Chill Touch is necrotic. "That roll must restore hit points or be a damage roll that deals acid, fire, necrotic, or poison damage, and the bonus equals your Intelligence modifier (minimum of +1)."
RAW an artificer can only use their artisan tools as a spellcasting focus for spells granted through their class. Magic Initiate or Spell Sniper is a different feature that grants spellcasting so technically they don't apply for casting through tools. The bonus from Alchemical Savant requires that the alchemist use Alchemical Supplies as their spellcasting focus in order to gain that bonus
This combination technically means the bonus from Alchemical Savant doesn't apply to spells granted through feats unless the feat has additional text to say otherwise.
It's the kind of thing that I'd greatly encourage any DM to just handwave away and say "No, it works because otherwise it's stupid."
I will throw in my support for both Skilled and Practiced Expert as well. Give me all the tool Proficiencies!!
My Thri-Kreen Artificer (heavy home-brew as this was before the artificer class was official and of course Thri-kreens aren't an offical race), became the handy man/cook/medic/smith of an entire crew on a flying ship that he could also fly on his own in our current campaign due to all his tool proficiencies. He might not be the captain of the ship, but it was HIS ship!
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"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
I was looking at Tandem Tactician (UA). At level 15, with Perfected Armor (Armorer), if it hits with lightning launcher twice, it provides advantage on up to four targets.
I believe Fey or Shadow Touched (UA) also grants access to Hex, which is potentially very valuable.
I was looking at Tandem Tactician (UA). At level 15, with Perfected Armor (Armorer), if it hits with lightning launcher twice, it provides advantage on up to four targets.
I believe Fey or Shadow Touched (UA) also grants access to Hex, which is potentially very valuable.
Fey Touched gives you access to either Hex (enchantment) or Hunter's Mark (divination).
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Bark side up, bark side down, it really, truly does not matter.
RAW an artificer can only use their artisan tools as a spellcasting focus for spells granted through their class. Magic Initiate or Spell Sniper is a different feature that grants spellcasting so technically they don't apply for casting through tools.
(apologies for the thread necromancy)
I don't think that's quite true. All the relevant artificer class and subclass features are keyed by "artificer spells." So if the gained spell happens to be on the list of artificer spells, then it counts.
As an artificer:
Spell Sniper: all ranged attack spells you cast get double range, all of your ranged spell attacks (including both your ranged attack spells cast and your eldritch cannon's force ballista) can ignore partial cover, and you get a new cantrip. If that cantrip is on the artificer spell list, you can cast it with your tools / infused items / arcane firearm / etc. If you choose Spell Sniper (Wizard) you can use your Int modifier.
Magic Initiate: you learn two cantrips and one 1st level spell, from the chosen class. If any of those spells happens to be on the artificer spell list, you can cast it with your tools / infused items / arcane firearm / etc. If it also comes from Wizard, then you use your Int modifier like all your other Artificer spells. However, you'd also need a level in the relevant class (like Wizard) to cast the 1st level spell with your spell slots. You can cast it once per long rest, regardless.
Artificer Intiate: you learn one cantrip and one 1st level spell, both by definition from the artificer spell list. Artificer or not, you explicitly can cast the 1st level spell (with Int modifier) from your spell slots (in addition to once per long rest).
If you're an Artillerist, I think the best of those three is Spell Sniper (Wizard), probably picking fire bolt. You get an extra cantrip, with full artificer/artillerist utility, and some good blaster synergy.
If you're some other type of Artificer, and you want to have more artificer-spell-flexibility, you probably want Artificer Initiate. Choose Magic Initiate (Wizard) (with spells shared by Wizard and Artificer) instead, if you want a second extra cantrip more than the ability to cast the 1st level spell with spell slots. Choose Magic Initiate (whatever) if you really want one or more of the spells to be from other spell lists, and don't care how you're casting them.
(If you're not an Artificer, Artificer Initiate is still pretty nice, even compared to Magic Initiate, because the artificer spell list is rather nice and varied, and Artificer Initiate explicitly lets you use your own spell slots regardless of what you are.)
RAW an artificer can only use their artisan tools as a spellcasting focus for spells granted through their class. Magic Initiate or Spell Sniper is a different feature that grants spellcasting so technically they don't apply for casting through tools.
(apologies for the thread necromancy)
I don't think that's quite true. All the relevant artificer class and subclass features are keyed by "artificer spells." So if the gained spell happens to be on the list of artificer spells, then it counts.
As an artificer:
Spell Sniper: all ranged attack spells you cast get double range, all of your ranged spell attacks (including both your ranged attack spells cast and your eldritch cannon's force ballista) can ignore partial cover, and you get a new cantrip. If that cantrip is on the artificer spell list, you can cast it with your tools / infused items / arcane firearm / etc. If you choose Spell Sniper (Wizard) you can use your Int modifier.
Magic Initiate: you learn two cantrips and one 1st level spell, from the chosen class. If any of those spells happens to be on the artificer spell list, you can cast it with your tools / infused items / arcane firearm / etc. If it also comes from Wizard, then you use your Int modifier like all your other Artificer spells. However, you'd also need a level in the relevant class (like Wizard) to cast the 1st level spell with your spell slots. You can cast it once per long rest, regardless.
Artificer Intiate: you learn one cantrip and one 1st level spell, both by definition from the artificer spell list. Artificer or not, you explicitly can cast the 1st level spell (with Int modifier) from your spell slots (in addition to once per long rest).
If you're an Artillerist, I think the best of those three is Spell Sniper (Wizard), probably picking fire bolt. You get an extra cantrip, with full artificer/artillerist utility, and some good blaster synergy.
If you're some other type of Artificer, and you want to have more artificer-spell-flexibility, you probably want Artificer Initiate. Choose Magic Initiate (Wizard) (with spells shared by Wizard and Artificer) instead, if you want a second extra cantrip more than the ability to cast the 1st level spell with spell slots. Choose Magic Initiate (whatever) if you really want one or more of the spells to be from other spell lists, and don't care how you're casting them.
(If you're not an Artificer, Artificer Initiate is still pretty nice, even compared to Magic Initiate, because the artificer spell list is rather nice and varied, and Artificer Initiate explicitly lets you use your own spell slots regardless of what you are.)
That's true for the Artillerist with Arcane Firearm which requires the spell cast simply be "an artificer spell."
But an Alchemist with Alchemical Savant is specifically required to cast the spell using Alchemist supplies as a focus in order to gain that extra INT to one damage/healing roll. An Alchemist can/must use a spellcasting focus (such as Alchemist Supplies) to cast spells granted by their spellcasting feature in other words cantrips you know from your class and spells that you prepare.
Magic Initiate and Spell Sniper don't give the option/ability/requirement to use Alchemist supplies as a spellcasting focus. Artificer Initiate gives that option provided the tool proficiency you select is Alchemist Supplies.
If you want to play it differently, I highly encourage it.
One potential RAW loophole around the wording of Alchemical Savant on this is for spells that have components that technically qualify as alchemist tools, which if you extend alchemist tools to include alchemical ingredients there are plenty of spells which would qualify. Some notable ones:
Hex, petrified eye of newt (About the most stereotypical potion ingredient in existence) Floating Disk, a drop of mercury Fireball, bat guano and sulfur Clairvoyance, a focus worth at least 100gp (You'd need particularly expensive alchemist supplies in this case)
Granted that requires interpreting "spellcasting focus" as synonymous with "material component" which functionally they are but some people can get really pedantic about these things so you never know. ; )
I would personally be more inclined to use the MI ruling that you can only use spell slots to cast the spell if you chose the same class for the feat as your own class. Normally I would go your way, but in this case I think it actually adds a little balance back into the mix.
And weren’t you the one who wanted to take Skilled for the extra tool proficiency?
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Yup: https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/dungeons-dragons-discussion/unearthed-arcana/74624-unearthed-arcana-feats
There’s a link to the actual UA in the first post of the thread.
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Warcaster
-“You have advantage on Constitution saving throws that you make to maintain your concentration on a spell when you take damage.”.
While the artificer has proficiency in constitution saving throws, which includes concentration checks, they have more limited spell slots. Having advantage on those concentration she is will give a higher chance to squeeze more use out of each of your spell slots is valuable. Even if you play tactically well, you’re still probably going to get pegged by an AOE or ranged eventually. Really starts to matter when you start getting hit for chunks of 30 or more damage. At high levels this gives you a chance to actually tank an ancient red dragons breath attack and continue concentrating, especially when combined with absorb elements and your other saving throw features.
-“You can perform the somatic components of spells even when you have weapons or a shield in one or both hands.”.
most players and DMs seem to still be trying to figure out if an artificer adds the (M) component to all spells they cast because of their class spellcasting description. My table accepts the (M) addition to all spells and as such this particular benefit doesn’t matter much for an artificer at my table.
-“When a hostile creature's movement provokes an opportunity attack from you, you can use your reaction to cast a spell at the creature, rather than making an opportunity attack. The spell must have a casting time of 1 action and must target only that creature.”.
Can be quite a good way to use one’s reaction. There seems to be a wide variation of play for how often attacks of opportunity take place. This is probably caused by “tactical” players/DMs attempting to mitigate damage by having their characters almost never move. While some tables enjoy playing this way, this would devalue this feature. There are also a few ways to force a creature to provoke attacks of opportunity, such as the spell dissonant whispers. Your mileage may vary greatly with this feature. I recently played with a cleric who happened to crit with his cast of inflict wounds from an opportunity attack, and he was quite happy with the choice he made.
As far as an artificer goes, the spell options to actually target a single creature that provoked the attack of opportunity are pretty limited. Some cantrips can be reliable like shocking grasp or thornwhip since they are melee attacks and not made at disadvantage. Spell choices of first level or higher seem to be very limited as they are mostly either ranged attack or high spell level saving throw that you are very limited In using. High elf racial cantrip choice for booming blade may solve this for a battlesmith.
The Armorer I previously mentioned has another ASI up, for level 12 now. He took Sharpshooter.
I'm torn between Lucky, Tough, Mobile, to make him better at what he does already, and taking Skilled or Prodigy in face skills, even though Charisma is his dump stat, because he often ends up doing the smart talking. Most of the rest of the usual party are martial. His last session saw him bamboozle a bunch of ogres by using Enlarge/Reduce and Disguise Self to portray himself as an ogre mage.
His Charisma is only 8, but he has a Luckstone (+1 to all ability checks), proficiency of +4, 5 charges of +5 Flash of Genius, and a custom item enchantment allowing a 1d10 bonus per short rest on any check. Also, the Spell storing item class feature offering 10 charges of Enhance Ability to confer advantage. That's a lot of stacking bonuses!
My thinking is he could take some combination of Persuasion, Deception, Insight, or Intimidation.
I'm also aware Lucky could boost those rare social checks, while offering more general purpose uses, particularly saves against high damage area effect spells, my biggest fear. Tough is nice but he rarely takes much damage.
Prodigy isn't so important because our downtime rules offer easy language and tool training opportunities. If he went all in on Arcana expertise, his bonus on that would be +14 or so. Alternatively, he could become quite ambassadorial with Persuasion expertise, a respectable +8, with all the bonuses he has available on top.
He is dean of a college and involved in some political intrigue, so some face skills would really help there.
Sounds like Skilled or Lucky is the way to go. As a side note, remember the variant rule to use skills with different abilities. Maybe your skill in convincing (or decieving) people isn't as much your stunnin personality but rather your ability to technobabble until people don't understand a word your saying? That would Persuasion/Deception with Intelligence instead of Charisma. The second edition of the Warhammer RPG had my favourite version of this, the skill "Blather". It was basically just the character talking BS enough to convince/confuse/distract people enough for a slight advantage in certain situations. :P
That's actually a really good idea. He's very much that kind of supernerd character.
Unfortunately, this wouldn't work, unless you're talking about doubling up with MI(wizard) to allow you to cast them using your alchemists supplies, which I suppose the spells taken at that point would be Chill Touch, Burning Hands and Infestation or Toll the Dead?
I want my next Artificer to be a gnome with a blunderbuss riding a robot bear
Is there a crafting table yet? My DM isn't making me roll checks because we have nothing to work with.
Crafting custom items, or even just crafting regular items, tends to be on a table-by-table basis because none of the books have anything worthwhile written in them for crafting. Everybody more or less has to invent their own rules, or at least talk to their DM about how it works. In most cases the artificer's basic class features will inform crafting rules - their tool Expertise, their profusion of crafting kits and tools, the rules for reduced crafting time built into the class itself. But how the eventual endgame shakes out is dependent on DM.
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I'm really liking the look of UA Practised Expert for my next ASI. I know the extra skill proficiency has the same issues as the Skilled feat, but expertise in a skill will be very tasty. I was always bothered by the only way to really get expertise in anything was through class trees.
Practiced Expert is fantastic for basically everything. A half ASI of your choice, an extra skill or tool proficiency, and Expertise in one key skill/tool. Artificers already get plenty of tool expertise, but having Expertise in Investigation or Arcana, or whatever else fits your character, is pretty heckin' excellent. It's easily a viable competitor to Prodigy; in many cases it's going to be better simply because a lot of people don't care about anything in Prodigy except the Expertise point, and Practiced Expert gives you that plus a stat nudge. If your DM lets you take it, it's golden.
Very strongly considering it myself for my own next ASI, and my artificer already has both Skilled and Linguist. Expertise in Investigation would be awesome though, and she'd FINALLY get that Stealth proficiency I've wanted her to have for forever. Probably.
Never. Enough. Proficiencies.
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I've been tempted by the stealth proficiency, but I think I'm going to get smiths tools. It fits with newly revealed background details, as well as the practicality of making magic armour would just be too much to miss.
I was looking for the +1 to int as I'm already at 19 and just needed that push to get the most out of all the abilities tied to intelligence mods. I was eyeing prodigy for the expertise, but the last of an ASI really put a dent in it.
Would this not still work? Chill Touch is necrotic. "That roll must restore hit points or be a damage roll that deals acid, fire, necrotic, or poison damage, and the bonus equals your Intelligence modifier (minimum of +1)."
Incantis, half-elf warlock (great old one) 4/bard 1 ● Thorok Earthhand, hill dwarf mountain druid 6/grave cleric 2
Cragmyre Ironseed, earth genasi ancestral barbarian 3 ● Cyrus Natriallae, aquatic half-elf warlock of the deep 3
RAW an artificer can only use their artisan tools as a spellcasting focus for spells granted through their class.
Magic Initiate or Spell Sniper is a different feature that grants spellcasting so technically they don't apply for casting through tools.
The bonus from Alchemical Savant requires that the alchemist use Alchemical Supplies as their spellcasting focus in order to gain that bonus
This combination technically means the bonus from Alchemical Savant doesn't apply to spells granted through feats unless the feat has additional text to say otherwise.
It's the kind of thing that I'd greatly encourage any DM to just handwave away and say "No, it works because otherwise it's stupid."
I will throw in my support for both Skilled and Practiced Expert as well. Give me all the tool Proficiencies!!
My Thri-Kreen Artificer (heavy home-brew as this was before the artificer class was official and of course Thri-kreens aren't an offical race), became the handy man/cook/medic/smith of an entire crew on a flying ship that he could also fly on his own in our current campaign due to all his tool proficiencies. He might not be the captain of the ship, but it was HIS ship!
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
Characters for Tenebris Sine Fine
RoughCoronet's Greater Wills
I was looking at Tandem Tactician (UA). At level 15, with Perfected Armor (Armorer), if it hits with lightning launcher twice, it provides advantage on up to four targets.
I believe Fey or Shadow Touched (UA) also grants access to Hex, which is potentially very valuable.
Fey Touched gives you access to either Hex (enchantment) or Hunter's Mark (divination).
Bark side up, bark side down, it really, truly does not matter.
(apologies for the thread necromancy)
I don't think that's quite true. All the relevant artificer class and subclass features are keyed by "artificer spells." So if the gained spell happens to be on the list of artificer spells, then it counts.
As an artificer:
Spell Sniper: all ranged attack spells you cast get double range, all of your ranged spell attacks (including both your ranged attack spells cast and your eldritch cannon's force ballista) can ignore partial cover, and you get a new cantrip. If that cantrip is on the artificer spell list, you can cast it with your tools / infused items / arcane firearm / etc. If you choose Spell Sniper (Wizard) you can use your Int modifier.
Magic Initiate: you learn two cantrips and one 1st level spell, from the chosen class. If any of those spells happens to be on the artificer spell list, you can cast it with your tools / infused items / arcane firearm / etc. If it also comes from Wizard, then you use your Int modifier like all your other Artificer spells. However, you'd also need a level in the relevant class (like Wizard) to cast the 1st level spell with your spell slots. You can cast it once per long rest, regardless.
Artificer Intiate: you learn one cantrip and one 1st level spell, both by definition from the artificer spell list. Artificer or not, you explicitly can cast the 1st level spell (with Int modifier) from your spell slots (in addition to once per long rest).
If you're an Artillerist, I think the best of those three is Spell Sniper (Wizard), probably picking fire bolt. You get an extra cantrip, with full artificer/artillerist utility, and some good blaster synergy.
If you're some other type of Artificer, and you want to have more artificer-spell-flexibility, you probably want Artificer Initiate. Choose Magic Initiate (Wizard) (with spells shared by Wizard and Artificer) instead, if you want a second extra cantrip more than the ability to cast the 1st level spell with spell slots. Choose Magic Initiate (whatever) if you really want one or more of the spells to be from other spell lists, and don't care how you're casting them.
(If you're not an Artificer, Artificer Initiate is still pretty nice, even compared to Magic Initiate, because the artificer spell list is rather nice and varied, and Artificer Initiate explicitly lets you use your own spell slots regardless of what you are.)
That's true for the Artillerist with Arcane Firearm which requires the spell cast simply be "an artificer spell."
But an Alchemist with Alchemical Savant is specifically required to cast the spell using Alchemist supplies as a focus in order to gain that extra INT to one damage/healing roll. An Alchemist can/must use a spellcasting focus (such as Alchemist Supplies) to cast spells granted by their spellcasting feature in other words cantrips you know from your class and spells that you prepare.
Magic Initiate and Spell Sniper don't give the option/ability/requirement to use Alchemist supplies as a spellcasting focus. Artificer Initiate gives that option provided the tool proficiency you select is Alchemist Supplies.
If you want to play it differently, I highly encourage it.
One potential RAW loophole around the wording of Alchemical Savant on this is for spells that have components that technically qualify as alchemist tools, which if you extend alchemist tools to include alchemical ingredients there are plenty of spells which would qualify. Some notable ones:
Hex, petrified eye of newt (About the most stereotypical potion ingredient in existence)
Floating Disk, a drop of mercury
Fireball, bat guano and sulfur
Clairvoyance, a focus worth at least 100gp (You'd need particularly expensive alchemist supplies in this case)
Granted that requires interpreting "spellcasting focus" as synonymous with "material component" which functionally they are but some people can get really pedantic about these things so you never know. ; )