So what spells or cantrips do you wish was on the artificer spell list/cantrip list?
I'm biased, i'm coming from an Alchemist's pov. I really wish that I had Produce Flame instead of Firestrike. It would be so great for fluffing my Alchemists stuff.
"....breaths lightly in the darkness, pulling out a small vial from their bandollier, shaking violently for a moment before a soft glow begins, growing strong. Revealing (insert name) illuminated in the soft glow of their alchemist fire vial"
I also really tend to wish I had Primal Savegry. It does decent damage but more importantly its acid damage, and it affords an interesting close range spell for the Alchemist's specific element list. It would be a really neat way to fluff Alchemical blade. A small iron vial of acid, that they unstoper and flick, creating a short lived Acid Liquid Blade that they attack with.
Honestly there are a lot of cool little things that aren't great choices in general, that are just amazingly fun with fluff.
Guiding Bolt or Chaos bolt/chromatic would be great for Alchemist as well. Supportive attack (just abig glowy vial!). the secondary ones just useful for the extremely limited choices they have for their bonus (really not many on the spell list for those elements). Toll the Dead/Chilltouch/Sapping cantrip for necrotic would be nice considering 1 necrotic spell ever. Though the fluff on those are weird. Though sapping could be a gas bomb that makes them dizzy and falls.
So. I'm curious what folks think and reasons they'd like stuff!
I like the idea of a Magewright (the dudes that use magic for common stuff) and I can see the Artificer being like a construction worker, making road and builds etc.
Because of this image I would like to have Mold Earth, Shape Water, would be very fitting. I can even see the artificer making a trench line for troops (5' deep, with a 5' mount of dirt in front would offer full to 3/4 cover at least), cast create water if from and use shape water to make frozen spikes to block the enemy.
For Spells I would like to have Galders Tower. It is a 3rd level spell that makes a small house. I would be like a portable workshop.
Blade cantrips. If any freaking class in the game warrants the ability to swing a weapon augmented/energized with magic it's the FRIGGIN' ARTIFICER.
That aside, I actually like the artificer spell list for the most part. Outside of missing Arcane Weapon, I can't recall any glaring holes right off. I tend to prioritize supporting/utility spells with leveled spell slots in most cases anyways, and the artificer's spell list is a curated show of pretty much all the best support stuff in the game. And if I absolutely need to poke something at a distance or be Offensive Somehow with my spells, well, that's what Catapult is for.
Savagery would be an interesting choice for an Alchemist, but as much as I loved my pre-Rising alchemists, I've been forced to completely and permanently abandon the subclass since Wizards decided to destroy it forever. Glugh.
I'll admit, part of me wishes Vicious Mockery was there. Not because I think it fits or am bent up over not having it, but because I want to fluff it as a robotic pirate's parrot on a different artificer's shoulder (a good place for a Homunculus, to boot!) that takes an action to spit sick burns at critters for you.
"Raahh! Polly spots a slacker, raaahhh!" "Raahh! I've heard of peg legs but never seen a peg brain, raaahh!" "Raahh! Square the riggin', I sense a blowhard coming, raaahh!" "Raahh! Somebody smells like a stowaway on a manure barge, raaahh!" "Raahh! Even the blackest beard couldn't save that face, raaahh!"
I don't know much about pre rising Alchemists. most of my Alchemist are from combat alchemists from books. light novels and such. (not talking about Full metal alchemist). Stuff like Adlet Meyers from Rokka no Yuusha. Some characters from the Powder Mage Trilogy, Eva from Negima (early on eva anyway. And a few later character).
(if i had my choice in general though. i'd want the Alchemist Satchel back with a few choice changes.(making the damage ones INT weapon attacks, and the debuff ones as saves. Plus this would allow you to use cantrip for support instead of as your main combat method.
Yep I love all the Support spells on the list. Its my preference too. I'd just like a few choice offensive support choices. (and I am biased in that I like Guiding Bolt's combo ability. Also love the idea of a FlashBang). if my Alchemist had Produce Fire and Savagery. They would be a tanky, support, healing mid range alchy. Would look quite cool. Although would have problems with a long range one.. but that doesn't come up that often. Also would require using Magic Initiate to snag stuff like Guidance and Mending or some other great support cantrip.
Dragon’s Breath, I know the spell says it comes from one’s mouth, but with a simple reskin to come from some piece of equipment it works for all of he Artificers, and with the Alchemist it even works well without the reskin.
I'll admit, part of me wishes Vicious Mockery was there. Not because I think it fits or am bent up over not having it, but because I want to fluff it as a robotic pirate's parrot on a different artificer's shoulder (a good place for a Homunculus, to boot!) that takes an action to spit sick burns at critters for you.
"Raahh! Polly spots a slacker, raaahhh!" "Raahh! I've heard of peg legs but never seen a peg brain, raaahh!" "Raahh! Square the riggin', I sense a blowhard coming, raaahh!" "Raahh! Somebody smells like a stowaway on a manure barge, raaahh!" "Raahh! Even the blackest beard couldn't save that face, raaahh!"
Oh. Okay. Dragon breath is neat and would absolutely be perfect for alchemists too. Also hilarious on a homunculus.
Im adding that to my personal Alchemist Alterations list. Replace level 2 subclass spell with this one. Or well consider it anyway.
The current version of the Alchemist could use a little help anyway so you could just add it (instead of replacing a spell) and it won’t upset game balance one bit. As a house rule, I also give Alchemist players the option to use a special Homunculus if they take that infusion. It’s my customized hybrid of the Homunculus from Eberron Rising and the old Alchemical Homunculus from the UA, but with a twist to fit with their Experimental Elixirs. https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/729690-alchemical-homunculus
Hmm.. One thing I wish the Homculus had was that it opened up the possible spells you can cast through them. I wish it was any spells. That would've been a very unique twist to it. And would have been something worth it compared to Familiars. Since you can't see/view/etc with a Homculus like the Familiar. and you can quite easily lose the Infused item-and be out a homculusu until you get a new gem. Or at least until tomorrow when you can remake infusions.
An artificer version of Prestidigitation/thaumaturgy/druidcraft. I mean, this should be Mending, but mending is practically useless mechanically. I didn't realize this until I became an artificer, but it takes a full minute to cast mending. WTF?! Meaning, it can't be used in combat (I bring this up sense it is supposed to heal your constructs). and I've never had a DM let me do anything impressive with it. I can do some crazy shit with Prestidigitation because it's all right there in the text, but mending... not really, so it is almost useless for flavor too. besides out of combat healing of your constructs what is the point of this spell?
An artificer version of Prestidigitation/thaumaturgy/druidcraft. I mean, this should be Mending, but mending is practically useless mechanically.....
I can totally see your point on this. I think Magical Tinkering was intended to be the Artificers’ utility cantrip substitute. I say that because they started out as magical tinkerers and then morphed into slightly better half-casters (6/10 casters?). That opinion primarily stems from the parallels in design, layout and language, between that feature and those spells coupled with Artificers’ spartan cantrip slots. But the limitations on number of uses and the fact that half of the effects are barely even situational means it kind of falls short.
Mending isn’t completely useless, especially if your DM is a little flexible with their interpretation of its use.
“This spell repairs a single break or tear in an object you touch, such as a broken chain link, two halves of a broken key, a torn cloak, or a leaking wineskin. As long as the break or tear is no larger than 1 foot in any dimension, you mend it, leaving no trace of the former damage.
“This spell can physically repair a magic item or construct, but the spell can't restore magic to such an object.
Theoretically one could mend even a shattered teapot with the spell given enough time (1 min/fragment). And it opens up a lot more utility if the DM is willing to reinterpret the second sentence to read as “You mend the break or tear and as long as it is no larger than 1 foot in any dimension it leaves no trace of the former damage.”
How about this: This spell can fix larger breaks and cracks, but the casting time is increased to 10 minutes per 1 cu ft section.
AND ANOTHER THING! the tinkering is silly! I mean only light in a 5 ft radius?! Noise that can't be heard for more than 10 ft away?! I mean, I get limiting it so it doesn't whole hog replace leveled spells, but the minor illusion cantrip can do better than that, the dancing lights and light cantrips do better than that.
Tinkering i'm pretty fine with. YOu get a lot of them. There are plenty of times when I make 5ft light ball bearings and just roll them into an area with some force. Or roll them into somewhere and the light is small enough that people think its someone's further away torch. It can allow for semi secreted messages considering they can't be heard very far away-does run the risk of anyone touching it to hear it though.
Its a pretty neat little pseudo cantrip. I would however like to have gotten 3 or 4 cnatrips yep. but tinkering is pretty useful.
would be very nice to have been a class feature. (like eldritchj blast probably should've been innate too)..
although Alchemists don't really have a strong need. unless they take Homoculus... but. it would be great to have anyway because its supporitive for the group. So they could get a lot of use that way
although Alchemists don't really have a strong need. unless they take Homoculus... but. it would be great to have anyway because its supporitive for the group. So they could get a lot of use that way
They don't have a strong need of it, but they should've. I'm in the group that thinks that the Alchemical Homunculus is way better than the potion garbage we have now, so they should've just had mending be a given cantrip, and you get 2 more cantrips.
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How about this: This spell can fix larger breaks and cracks, but the casting time is increased to 10 minutes per 1 cu ft section.
AND ANOTHER THING! the tinkering is silly! I mean only light in a 5 ft radius?! Noise that can't be heard for more than 10 ft away?! I mean, I get limiting it so it doesn't whole hog replace leveled spells, but the minor illusion cantrip can do better than that, the dancing lights and light cantrips do better than that.
Unlike the Light and Dancing Lights cantrips Magical Tinkering has the benefit of not being a spell. Meaning it can make a source of magical light that cannot be snuffed out via the Darkness the way light producing spells (of 2nd level and lower) can. It's a small, niche advantage but it can be quite handy in the right situation.
Further, it's non-spell nature also makes those effects immune to Dispel Magic, not that the effects really warrant the use of a 3rd level spell, but it really appeals to my inner prankster.
Aside from that the low range and small degree of effects is likely meant to balance out them having an unlimited duration. The effects of Prestidigitation last at most an hour or as short as 6 seconds, minor illusion lasts only a minute. Magical Tinkering lasts as long as you want it to.
Making a wizard's favorite hat permanently smell of farts with undispellable magic? There's a great beauty in that...
I'm cool with mending having a 1 minute casting time considering it's a cantrip and there are precisely 0 other cantrips that restore hp but there really should be other spells in the artificer list that can heal constructs.
I also agree mending should just be granted an artificer for free, or simply allow a Tinker Tool's check to heal a construct for a similar amount over the course of a minute.
My favorite uses for magical tinkering. Courier job--each one has set amount of words. get numbered ball bearings in a bag. Record a message-and it plays in your voice w hen touched. Niche but fun for 'this is actually me messaging you' verfication. -shame it can't record others it or it would be the best way to transport messages or edicts. I use the illusionary portion to effectively "snap shot" things i'm looking at. Lines and shapes make up everything and all. Though some GMs might not like it. It at worst can do sketches of people though which is just lines and shapes absolutely. Copy someone you see. then trace it later.
My Alchemist-Cook actually cooks meals but then uses tinkering to change the aroma of the foods. So you smell baked bread when you're eating a steak. Or weird stuff. Curry smelling salad was my most amusing one. And chocolate that smelled like fresh rain.
Being able to hand out 1 ball bearing with small amount of light to everyone in the group is nice. If your GM is more into item creation as well. Then creating a metal tube with mirror polish insead with a clear glass beat that is infused with light can make a pseudo flashlight. Got that one from Cadderly (RA Salvator book)-though he used a smooth skipping stone I think.
having ball bearings that roll around emmiting low level noises is pretty nice. Nonverbal noises are a lot-its pretty useful when your'e hiding and you need some sorta sound distraction to roll past them, or to mage hand above and beyond them. Extra points if its something very hard to see like a hair or shavings of wood.
----
On the topic of spells I think i probably mentioned it myriads of times. But would be nice to have a spell to use a known but not in use infusion yep yep.
Artificers in the group I play with give characters w/ no darkvision pebbles w/ that tiny light to keep obscured in their pockets for emergencies. Perfect for Halfling Rogues.
As a side note, go outside late at night, turn on the flashlight on your phone, and hold up it over your head aimed straight down. That’s approximately a 5’ radius Bright + 5’ radius Dim light. Ain’t that tiny. Just sayin’.
Howdy.
So what spells or cantrips do you wish was on the artificer spell list/cantrip list?
I'm biased, i'm coming from an Alchemist's pov. I really wish that I had Produce Flame instead of Firestrike. It would be so great for fluffing my Alchemists stuff.
"....breaths lightly in the darkness, pulling out a small vial from their bandollier, shaking violently for a moment before a soft glow begins, growing strong. Revealing (insert name) illuminated in the soft glow of their alchemist fire vial"
I also really tend to wish I had Primal Savegry. It does decent damage but more importantly its acid damage, and it affords an interesting close range spell for the Alchemist's specific element list. It would be a really neat way to fluff Alchemical blade. A small iron vial of acid, that they unstoper and flick, creating a short lived Acid Liquid Blade that they attack with.
Honestly there are a lot of cool little things that aren't great choices in general, that are just amazingly fun with fluff.
Guiding Bolt or Chaos bolt/chromatic would be great for Alchemist as well. Supportive attack (just abig glowy vial!). the secondary ones just useful for the extremely limited choices they have for their bonus (really not many on the spell list for those elements). Toll the Dead/Chilltouch/Sapping cantrip for necrotic would be nice considering 1 necrotic spell ever. Though the fluff on those are weird. Though sapping could be a gas bomb that makes them dizzy and falls.
So. I'm curious what folks think and reasons they'd like stuff!
I like the idea of a Magewright (the dudes that use magic for common stuff) and I can see the Artificer being like a construction worker, making road and builds etc.
Because of this image I would like to have Mold Earth, Shape Water, would be very fitting. I can even see the artificer making a trench line for troops (5' deep, with a 5' mount of dirt in front would offer full to 3/4 cover at least), cast create water if from and use shape water to make frozen spikes to block the enemy.
For Spells I would like to have Galders Tower. It is a 3rd level spell that makes a small house. I would be like a portable workshop.
Blade cantrips. If any freaking class in the game warrants the ability to swing a weapon augmented/energized with magic it's the FRIGGIN' ARTIFICER.
That aside, I actually like the artificer spell list for the most part. Outside of missing Arcane Weapon, I can't recall any glaring holes right off. I tend to prioritize supporting/utility spells with leveled spell slots in most cases anyways, and the artificer's spell list is a curated show of pretty much all the best support stuff in the game. And if I absolutely need to poke something at a distance or be Offensive Somehow with my spells, well, that's what Catapult is for.
Savagery would be an interesting choice for an Alchemist, but as much as I loved my pre-Rising alchemists, I've been forced to completely and permanently abandon the subclass since Wizards decided to destroy it forever. Glugh.
I'll admit, part of me wishes Vicious Mockery was there. Not because I think it fits or am bent up over not having it, but because I want to fluff it as a robotic pirate's parrot on a different artificer's shoulder (a good place for a Homunculus, to boot!) that takes an action to spit sick burns at critters for you.
"Raahh! Polly spots a slacker, raaahhh!"
"Raahh! I've heard of peg legs but never seen a peg brain, raaahh!"
"Raahh! Square the riggin', I sense a blowhard coming, raaahh!"
"Raahh! Somebody smells like a stowaway on a manure barge, raaahh!"
"Raahh! Even the blackest beard couldn't save that face, raaahh!"
Please do not contact or message me.
I don't know much about pre rising Alchemists.
most of my Alchemist are from combat alchemists from books. light novels and such. (not talking about Full metal alchemist). Stuff like Adlet Meyers from Rokka no Yuusha. Some characters from the Powder Mage Trilogy, Eva from Negima (early on eva anyway. And a few later character).
(if i had my choice in general though. i'd want the Alchemist Satchel back with a few choice changes.(making the damage ones INT weapon attacks, and the debuff ones as saves.
Plus this would allow you to use cantrip for support instead of as your main combat method.
Yep I love all the Support spells on the list. Its my preference too. I'd just like a few choice offensive support choices. (and I am biased in that I like Guiding Bolt's combo ability. Also love the idea of a FlashBang).
if my Alchemist had Produce Fire and Savagery. They would be a tanky, support, healing mid range alchy. Would look quite cool. Although would have problems with a long range one.. but that doesn't come up that often. Also would require using Magic Initiate to snag stuff like Guidance and Mending or some other great support cantrip.
Dragon’s Breath, I know the spell says it comes from one’s mouth, but with a simple reskin to come from some piece of equipment it works for all of he Artificers, and with the Alchemist it even works well without the reskin.
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Oh. Okay. Dragon breath is neat and would absolutely be perfect for alchemists too. Also hilarious on a homunculus.
Im adding that to my personal Alchemist Alterations list. Replace level 2 subclass spell with this one. Or well consider it anyway.
The current version of the Alchemist could use a little help anyway so you could just add it (instead of replacing a spell) and it won’t upset game balance one bit. As a house rule, I also give Alchemist players the option to use a special Homunculus if they take that infusion. It’s my customized hybrid of the Homunculus from Eberron Rising and the old Alchemical Homunculus from the UA, but with a twist to fit with their Experimental Elixirs.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/729690-alchemical-homunculus
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Oh thats neat.
if we're talking house rules abit.. I actually have a draft of changes to Alchemists myself
https://www.reddit.com/r/dndnext/comments/gg7kj1/my_idea_for_alchemist_artificer_alterations/
Hmm.. One thing I wish the Homculus had was that it opened up the possible spells you can cast through them. I wish it was any spells. That would've been a very unique twist to it. And would have been something worth it compared to Familiars. Since you can't see/view/etc with a Homculus like the Familiar. and you can quite easily lose the Infused item-and be out a homculusu until you get a new gem. Or at least until tomorrow when you can remake infusions.
An artificer version of Prestidigitation/thaumaturgy/druidcraft. I mean, this should be Mending, but mending is practically useless mechanically. I didn't realize this until I became an artificer, but it takes a full minute to cast mending. WTF?! Meaning, it can't be used in combat (I bring this up sense it is supposed to heal your constructs). and I've never had a DM let me do anything impressive with it. I can do some crazy shit with Prestidigitation because it's all right there in the text, but mending... not really, so it is almost useless for flavor too. besides out of combat healing of your constructs what is the point of this spell?
I can totally see your point on this. I think Magical Tinkering was intended to be the Artificers’ utility cantrip substitute. I say that because they started out as magical tinkerers and then morphed into slightly better half-casters (6/10 casters?). That opinion primarily stems from the parallels in design, layout and language, between that feature and those spells coupled with Artificers’ spartan cantrip slots. But the limitations on number of uses and the fact that half of the effects are barely even situational means it kind of falls short.
Mending isn’t completely useless, especially if your DM is a little flexible with their interpretation of its use.
Theoretically one could mend even a shattered teapot with the spell given enough time (1 min/fragment). And it opens up a lot more utility if the DM is willing to reinterpret the second sentence to read as “You mend the break or tear and as long as it is no larger than 1 foot in any dimension it leaves no trace of the former damage.”
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How about this: This spell can fix larger breaks and cracks, but the casting time is increased to 10 minutes per 1 cu ft section.
AND ANOTHER THING! the tinkering is silly! I mean only light in a 5 ft radius?! Noise that can't be heard for more than 10 ft away?! I mean, I get limiting it so it doesn't whole hog replace leveled spells, but the minor illusion cantrip can do better than that, the dancing lights and light cantrips do better than that.
Tinkering i'm pretty fine with. YOu get a lot of them. There are plenty of times when I make 5ft light ball bearings and just roll them into an area with some force. Or roll them into somewhere and the light is small enough that people think its someone's further away torch. It can allow for semi secreted messages considering they can't be heard very far away-does run the risk of anyone touching it to hear it though.
Its a pretty neat little pseudo cantrip. I would however like to have gotten 3 or 4 cnatrips yep. but tinkering is pretty useful.
I think the spell lists are fine, but the limitation is TWO CANTRIPS. And one of them pretty much must be Mending, to keep pets alive :/
Yes. Mending should be automatically given to the artificer. It sucks that it takes up one of your cantrip options.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
would be very nice to have been a class feature. (like eldritchj blast probably should've been innate too)..
although Alchemists don't really have a strong need. unless they take Homoculus... but. it would be great to have anyway because its supporitive for the group. So they could get a lot of use that way
They don't have a strong need of it, but they should've. I'm in the group that thinks that the Alchemical Homunculus is way better than the potion garbage we have now, so they should've just had mending be a given cantrip, and you get 2 more cantrips.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Unlike the Light and Dancing Lights cantrips Magical Tinkering has the benefit of not being a spell. Meaning it can make a source of magical light that cannot be snuffed out via the Darkness the way light producing spells (of 2nd level and lower) can. It's a small, niche advantage but it can be quite handy in the right situation.
Further, it's non-spell nature also makes those effects immune to Dispel Magic, not that the effects really warrant the use of a 3rd level spell, but it really appeals to my inner prankster.
Aside from that the low range and small degree of effects is likely meant to balance out them having an unlimited duration. The effects of Prestidigitation last at most an hour or as short as 6 seconds, minor illusion lasts only a minute. Magical Tinkering lasts as long as you want it to.
Making a wizard's favorite hat permanently smell of farts with undispellable magic? There's a great beauty in that...
I'm cool with mending having a 1 minute casting time considering it's a cantrip and there are precisely 0 other cantrips that restore hp but there really should be other spells in the artificer list that can heal constructs.
I also agree mending should just be granted an artificer for free, or simply allow a Tinker Tool's check to heal a construct for a similar amount over the course of a minute.
My favorite uses for magical tinkering.
Courier job--each one has set amount of words. get numbered ball bearings in a bag. Record a message-and it plays in your voice w hen touched. Niche but fun for 'this is actually me messaging you' verfication. -shame it can't record others it or it would be the best way to transport messages or edicts.
I use the illusionary portion to effectively "snap shot" things i'm looking at. Lines and shapes make up everything and all. Though some GMs might not like it. It at worst can do sketches of people though which is just lines and shapes absolutely. Copy someone you see. then trace it later.
My Alchemist-Cook actually cooks meals but then uses tinkering to change the aroma of the foods. So you smell baked bread when you're eating a steak. Or weird stuff. Curry smelling salad was my most amusing one. And chocolate that smelled like fresh rain.
Being able to hand out 1 ball bearing with small amount of light to everyone in the group is nice. If your GM is more into item creation as well. Then creating a metal tube with mirror polish insead with a clear glass beat that is infused with light can make a pseudo flashlight. Got that one from Cadderly (RA Salvator book)-though he used a smooth skipping stone I think.
having ball bearings that roll around emmiting low level noises is pretty nice. Nonverbal noises are a lot-its pretty useful when your'e hiding and you need some sorta sound distraction to roll past them, or to mage hand above and beyond them. Extra points if its something very hard to see like a hair or shavings of wood.
----
On the topic of spells I think i probably mentioned it myriads of times. But would be nice to have a spell to use a known but not in use infusion yep yep.
Artificers in the group I play with give characters w/ no darkvision pebbles w/ that tiny light to keep obscured in their pockets for emergencies. Perfect for Halfling Rogues.
As a side note, go outside late at night, turn on the flashlight on your phone, and hold up it over your head aimed straight down. That’s approximately a 5’ radius Bright + 5’ radius Dim light. Ain’t that tiny. Just sayin’.
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