So after getting told off in the Tasha's specuilation thread by folks who think the Rising Alchemist is playable (spoilers: it's not) and informed to "fix it myself if I hate it that bad" (spoilers again: I already did. DDB Cease-and-Desist'd me and told me never to do it again), I've been brainstorming for most of a week on a new variation on the idea of a 'chemical-y' artificer. One that kicks healing to the distinct back seat in favor of harming its enemies and inflicting debilitating debuffs, protecting its allies by ensuring its enemies are too busy dealing with their insides melting to bother chewing on the party. I'm posting here rather than the Homebrew forum because this isn't actually homebrew yet, but more of a "where do you see issues/what would you change?" thing, collecting ideas from people who actually play artificers.
This is an early draft of what I'm currently calling the Toxicologist. Class features are not even remotely set in stone. Nor, for that matter, is the name of the subclass. Unfortunately, with the way Expanded Spell Lists work on DDB I'll likely never be able to share this with folks publicly since we can't ever use anything outside the enormously inadequate Basic Rules for ESLs, but if people take a shine to the idea I'll work up as close as I can get to a usable version with directions for patching the spells in. That said, let me know what you think of this notion and where I've misstepped.
The Toxicologist
Some artificers pursue the ancient, time-honored art of alchemy, seeking to create elixirs that can induce bizarre, unpredictable magical effects in their imbibers. Some artificers, however, prefer more certainty in their work. Some artificers know that the difference between a curative drug that purges a body of sickness and a toxin that purges a body of life is often little more than a matter of dosage. Some artificers prefer a more hands-on approach to adventuring work than the accident-prone laboratories of their more well-known ‘colleagues’.
Some artificers choose to take up the path of the Toxicologist.
This alternative interpretation of the more traditional Alchemist focuses on restoring the combat power of the 2019 UA Alchemist, as well as eliminating the bothersome and undesirable “Experimental Elixir” mechanic altogether.
3 Level: Tools of the Trade You gain proficiency with the Poisoner’s Kit. If you already have this proficiency, you gain proficiency with one other type of artisan’s tool of your choice.
3 Level: Toxicologist Expanded Spell List 1: Ray of Sickness, Inflict Wounds 2: Lesser Restoration, Ray of Enfeeblement 3: Revivify, Stinking Cloud 4: Elemental Bane, Vitriolic Sphere 5: Cloudkill, Raise Dead
3 Level: Corrosive Treatment Beginning at 3 level, you learn how to apply special oils and treatments to your weapons to give them a caustic bite. When you complete a long rest, you may choose one simple or martial weapon or up to twenty pieces of ammunition you can touch. If you have your poisoner’s kit on hand, you can apply chemical coatings to the chosen weapon or ammunition that last until your next long rest. While the coating is in effect, the damage type of the affected weapon or ammunition changes to poison or acid (your choice).
3 Level:Toxicologist’s Bandolier Beginning at 3 level, you create a special harness that aids you in the swift and efficient delivery of all the various compounds you can craft – a Toxicologist’s Bandolier. The bandolier can store doses of poison, magical potions, or containers of acid, collectively referred to as ‘compounds’. It can store a number of such compounds equivalent to twice your Intelligence modifier. While a compound is stored in your bandolier, you may retrieve and use it as a bonus action. Poisons may be applied to a weapon or ammunition as the poison indicates; potions may be consumed or administered to another willing ally you can touch; acid may be thrown.
When you complete a long rest with empty slots in your bandolier, you may add new compounds to it using the tools at your disposal. The bandolier’s magic keeps these special compounds potent until they’re removed and used. If any special compound spends more than one minute outside the bandolier, it loses its potency and disappears. You can create a number of special compounds equivalent to your proficiency bonus at the end of a long rest, provided your bandolier has room to contain them. You may create any combination of special compounds which you have the tools and proficiency to make.
You may create virulent poison with your poisoner’s kit. A dose of virulent poison can be applied to a melee weapon, or to a single piece of ammunition. Votent poison deals 2d8 poison damage when the weapon or ammunition it’s applied to hits a target.
If you are proficient with the Herbalism Kit and have it on hand, you may create a healing booster. When consumed, healing boosters restore hit points to a target equivalent to 1d6 + your Intelligence modifier.
If you are proficient with alchemist’s supplies and have them on hand, you may create vials of hydrodynamic acid. Hydrodynamic acid can be thrown at a creature or object within thirty feet; make a ranged weapon attack using the acid. On a hit, the target suffers 3d4 acid damage. Hydrodynamic acid can also be poured out on an object one can touch, dealing the same damage.
5 Level: Extra Attack
9 Level: Adjusted Dosage Your experience with toxins has given you insight into their function and how to tune their effects to be palliative rather than destructive. When you cast a spell that deals poison damage or inflicts the Poisoned condition, you may target a willing allied creature rather than a hostile one. If you do, the target regains hit points equivalent to the damage you roll for the spell, rather than suffering damage. If you inflict the Poisoned condition with this spell, the target does not suffer disadvantage on attack rolls and ability checks while Poisoned in this way. Instead, they have advantage on the same checks. You may affect an ally this way a number of times equal to your Intelligence modifier (minimum of once), and regain all expended uses when you complete a long rest.
15 Level: System Shock Your ability to influence your chosen victims’ systems with your toxins reaches a crescendo. You’ve learned how to use intense surges of toxins to shock a target’s system, temporarily debilitating it even beyond the effects of your compounds themselves.
On any turn where you deal 25 or more poison damage to a creature, it suffers from Toxic Shock until the start of your next turn. While suffering from Toxic Shock, the creature’s speed is reduced by half and it must subtract 1d4 from any attack roll or damage roll it makes.
On any turn where you deal 25 or more acid damage to a creature, it suffers a Chemical Burn until the start of your next turn. While suffering from a Chemical Burn, its Armor Class is reduced by 1, and whenever the creature takes damage, it suffers an additional 1d4 damage of the same type (if a source deals more than one type of damage, the player chooses which type of extra damage to deal).
On any turn where you restore 25 or more hit points to a creature, that creature experiences an Adrenaline Surge. While experiencing an Adrenaline Surge, a creature’s speed increases by ten feet and it adds 1d4 to attack and damage rolls it makes.
I agree, this sounds like a really fun Artificer to play. I especially like the ability to pick poison or acid for damage so that you can be effective even when facing the plethora of creatures resistant or immune to poison while still allowing you to use poison damage reliably when you want. I also like how different tools can created different concoctions, fitting into the artificer’s theme of being tool monkeys. The healing abilities of this subclass are also creative and sound like they will be fun to use.
Honesty, I would totally use this. I’m already thinking of possible ideas that could mesh with this but I’m currently at work and would need more time to collect my thoughts.
I do wish that each of the three kits allowed The Toxicologist to make two different things, at least at some point. Or maybe if you use an Herbs Kit in conjunction with a poison kit you can make poison B or booster B, if you used an alchemy kit with a poison kit you could make poison C or ”Chemical” C, something like that.
I will admit, I want to try and figure out how to get around poison resistance/immunity. Acid damage is a decent enough workaround, especially since caustics are perfectly in line with a rebranded 'Alchemist', but it just feels off that the Poison Gal artificer isn't any better at utilizing poison than a regular somebody else. Hm.
My other query is this: does the 'Toxicologist's Bandolier' seem remotely correct? One of J-Craw's rules for artificers, and one I agree with, is that all artificer subclasses need to make something. They need to have a physical thing that exists in the world which helps them out, but that's a hard thing to work in with a toxin specialist. Hrnn.
That’s kinda why I was suggesting some way to incorporate the different tool kits to allow the PC to make variations of their stuff. One of those variations could be a version that in some way addresses resistance, and it would give them more physical things to make.
I personally think the bandolier works fine here, especially since as you mentioned it is hard to think of another physical thing to have as their main contraption. I did consider a syringe like item being a potential artificer creation used to inject the toxic concoctions into enemies or allies but I would have no idea how to implement it, so the bandolier would be the obvious choice. The ability to use any item in the bandolier's compartments on a bonus action makes being a potion/flask flinger much more effective while also fitting with how artificers use there bonus action it utilize there main feature. Would you also be able to keep potions and other liquids on the bandolier that you did not create using your class features, such as potions that you find as loot?
Looking more closely at the flavor of the Toxicologist, the other ideas that popped into my head may not really fit as they seemed to lean more towards a full blown chemist instead of the Toxicologist theme. Still, I think it is really solid even as a first draft.
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"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
That’s kinda why I was suggesting some way to incorporate the different tool kits to allow the PC to make variations of their stuff. One of those variations could be a version that in some way addresses resistance, and it would give them more physical things to make.
I was having fun with some other ideas for what the other tool's and kits could create using this artificer's features but was too afraid it was going more chemist then toxicologist. Some are also harder to come up with ideas for then others to be fair.
The intent was that one could store regular potions, flasks of PHB acid, and stuff like Purple Worm or Drow poison or whatever in the bandolier for quick use, yes. Those things obey their normal rules, but the bandolier lets you use them on a bonus.
@Sposta: It's already breaking form to 'require' other tool kits beyond the Tool of the Trade. I like the idea, but it feels like one of those things that should be considered carefully. Hm. Maybe there's room for a double-dip feature at 9th. I shall sleep on it.
I really like this, though I've got a few queries about it:
Corrosive Treatment: I'm a bit unclear about the utility of this, as replacing a weapon's basic damage type for poison or acid could actually be a disadvantage if you end up facing something immune or resistant to whatever you chose. I was wondering if perhaps it might make sense to still allow the use of the weapon's base damage type (i.e- you use the least resisted). So if you coat a rapier, you can do either piercing or acid/poison, giving you a better chance of always doing full damage. Ammunition should be fine as-is since you can just swap it out.
Extra Attack: I feel like you need to justify in the background why this sub-class of Artificer has the extra attack. Perhaps it would make sense that the Toxicologist's knowledge of poisons and curatives would make many of them ideal as bodyguards/counter-operatives, and so they are trained in combat accordingly? i.e- even if it's not the role they'll end up in, they're trained to be able defend a VIP against traditional threats, or to quickly act to prevent poisoning or such?
Adjusted Dosage: This is interesting mechanically, but I'm a bit unsure about balance, as damaging spells generally do more damage than healing spells heal. You definitely need to specify that it should be spells of 1st level or higher only, as otherwise Poison Spray becomes an infinitely spammable healing spell. Other spells are a bit harder to quickly judge, since as an Artificer you get access to many of them later and are limited in how often you can use the better ones.
System Shock: I think the wording needs some clarification, specifically to tie it to the start of your next turn which I think is what you meant?
I do wonder if it would make sense to have a trait that lets you ignore poison resistance, and treat immunity as resistance instead maybe? It could be limited to INT uses per long rest, to represent you having a stock of high concentration poisons? Either that or maybe keeping with the Corrosive Treatment style, allows you to swap poison and acid damage on any spell, as most enemies that are totally immune to one should still be susceptible to the other.
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I'm super fond of the idea of Corrosive Treatment, it feels wonderfully thematic and strategic to be able to alter the base damage type of a weapon, but you have a point where it comes to the basic application potentially being more harmful than helpful. My notion was bypassing physical damage resistances/immunities, but poison res/imm is much more prevalent at lower levels. Hmm. Would this be a place to do the res/imm piercing, perhaps? "Attacks with this weapon ignore resistance to poison or acid damage, and treat immunity to poison or acid damage as resistance instead"? That would mean the artificer can bypass those protections and still potentially apply its System Shock later, but only with its chosen weapon/ammunition, rather than any-dang-thing it pleases? Or is this particular ability more trouble than it's worth and a candidate for replacement?
Extra Attack was one of the pillars of the subclass, for me. I didn't want a cantrip specialist, especially since the poison and acid cantrips are both heckin' awful and the Bandolier mechanic emphasizes applying poisons via weapons rather than toxifarting at folks. I wanted to try and recapture some of the spirit of the 2019 UA Alchemist as a useful, highly strategic combatant without relying on any of the mechanics of the actual Alchemist, since mucking about with the Rising Alchemist is taboo. EA is staying regardless, but I could certainly look into adjusting the rest of the subclass to make the choice of martial combat over magical combat more natural. Any ideas?
Adjusted Dosage is limited to INT modifier uses per long rest, as it currently sits. No spamming Poison Spray for infinite heals, unless you have infinite Intelligence somehow. This is another one where I really like the idea behind the mechanic but I'm unsure if it's the right way to go. Lots of stuff in the game turns defense into offense; very little turns offense into defense. Repurposing poison spells as healing spells allows the Toxicologist to prepare less healing and still be able to do it in a pinch, and it does offer some small reason to actually bother using Poison Spray, but it turns out spells that deal poison damage or inflict the Poisoned condition are SUPER FRICKIN' RARE. Ray of Sickness is basically it, and Ray of Sickness prevents me from publishing the class because it's PHB, not SRD. And yet, I can't not include it because Ray of Sickness is basically the only spell that Adjusted Dosage works properly with. Ugh. Wizards really does hate poison damage, doesn't it?
Did I screw up System Shock. Hm. Double-checking . .. ...yep. I missed the "start of your next turn" on Adrenaline Surge. Poopy. You're right, all the effects last until the start of the Toxicologist's next turn. They can occur on any turn though, meaning that a Toxicologist who strikes out of turn via opportunity attack or the like could potentially inflict a System Shock effect. Hm. The idea was to reward investment and make the choice of when and where to use the bandolier's available toxins more interesting, since you don't always just wanna spike damage like a mofo and instead may want to wait for a moment when debilitating the target would be of greatest benefit before burning a poison. It also makes weapon crits especially crunchy, since it's not "damage from a single hit", it's "damage in a single turn". If your two-hit multiattack totals over 25 of the given damage type, you inflict the System Shock effect. If you can juggle stuff such that you inflict over 25 damage of both offensive System Shocks in one turn, you can inflict both System Shock effects and really scramble a critter's insides. That sort of turn is what people playing at level 15+ are looking for, I figured. It is a very complicated ability though, given that it has to cover three different 'damage' types. Hm.
Thanks much for the poignant and useful feedback, Haravikk. You've given me some good thinking points to mull over.
I'm super fond of the idea of Corrosive Treatment, it feels wonderfully thematic and strategic to be able to alter the base damage type of a weapon, but you have a point where it comes to the basic application potentially being more harmful than helpful. My notion was bypassing physical damage resistances/immunities, but poison res/imm is much more prevalent at lower levels. Hmm. Would this be a place to do the res/imm piercing, perhaps? "Attacks with this weapon ignore resistance to poison or acid damage, and treat immunity to poison or acid damage as resistance instead"?
Yeah, I think that could be a great place to work it in, especially with the martial focus.
Extra Attack was one of the pillars of the subclass, for me. I didn't want a cantrip specialist, especially since the poison and acid cantrips are both heckin' awful and the Bandolier mechanic emphasizes applying poisons via weapons rather than toxifarting at folks. I wanted to try and recapture some of the spirit of the 2019 UA Alchemist as a useful, highly strategic combatant without relying on any of the mechanics of the actual Alchemist, since mucking about with the Rising Alchemist is taboo. EA is staying regardless, but I could certainly look into adjusting the rest of the subclass to make the choice of martial combat over magical combat more natural. Any ideas?
To clarify I'm not questioning the inclusion of Extra Attack as a feature, I'm just saying that in terms of the background to the class it could do with a bit of flavour that suggests why these poison artificers are also extra stabby. I'm not thinking of mechanical changes, more just a tweak to the flavour paragraph at the start; I mean you have mentioned Toxicologists being more "hands on", but that doesn't scream "hits stuff", to me at least.
This is why I was thinking counter-operative might work as an added note, e.g- "Some artificers are at home at the heart of royal intrigues, foiling assassinations and poisonings, or conducting a few of their own." or something like that? It was just a thought, maybe it wouldn't mesh with your own intended flavour?
But yeah, mechanically I'm fine with the Extra Attack, after all it builds nicely on the poisoned/acid weapon for a more melee focused Artificer build with a bag (or bandolier) of tricks.
Adjusted Dosage is limited to INT modifier uses per long rest, as it currently sits. No spamming Poison Spray for infinite heals, unless you have infinite Intelligence somehow. This is another one where I really like the idea behind the mechanic but I'm unsure if it's the right way to go. Lots of stuff in the game turns defense into offense; very little turns offense into defense. Repurposing poison spells as healing spells allows the Toxicologist to prepare less healing and still be able to do it in a pinch, and it does offer some small reason to actually bother using Poison Spray, but it turns out spells that deal poison damage or inflict the Poisoned condition are SUPER FRICKIN' RARE. Ray of Sickness is basically it, and Ray of Sickness prevents me from publishing the class because it's PHB, not SRD. And yet, I can't not include it because Ray of Sickness is basically the only spell that Adjusted Dosage works properly with. Ugh. Wizards really does hate poison damage, doesn't it?
Oh, in that case I've just missed the INT limit somehow so ignore me on that. That should be fine then, I've taken a closer look and there just aren't that many poison spells in the first place, let alone for Artificers.
As for publishing a homebrew, I believe you can add homebrew spells to it without issue, you just need to publish the spells before you publish the sub-class; so if you can come up with a Ray of Sickness alternative then that should work for publishing it. Hopefully someone can confirm this though, as I've never actually done it and could be wrong (but it'll either let you do it or it won't).
Did I screw up System Shock. Hm. Double-checking . .. ...yep. I missed the "start of your next turn" on Adrenaline Surge. Poopy. You're right, all the effects last until the start of the Toxicologist's next turn. They can occur on any turn though, meaning that a Toxicologist who strikes out of turn via opportunity attack or the like could potentially inflict a System Shock effect. Hm. The idea was to reward investment and make the choice of when and where to use the bandolier's available toxins more interesting, since you don't always just wanna spike damage like a mofo and instead may want to wait for a moment when debilitating the target would be of greatest benefit before burning a poison. It also makes weapon crits especially crunchy, since it's not "damage from a single hit", it's "damage in a single turn". If your two-hit multiattack totals over 25 of the given damage type, you inflict the System Shock effect. If you can juggle stuff such that you inflict over 25 damage of both offensive System Shocks in one turn, you can inflict both System Shock effects and really scramble a critter's insides. That sort of turn is what people playing at level 15+ are looking for, I figured. It is a very complicated ability though, given that it has to cover three different 'damage' types. Hm.
No worries, I like the ability and I knew how you meant for it to work, just thought it needed clarifying.
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This subclass seems like it will pair nicely with the currently UA Poisoner feat. The choice of acid damage could get around poison immune creatures, but for mere resistance this would be a natural and useful combo.
Part of the intent was to mimic aspects of the Poisoner feat without stepping on that feat's toes. One of the reasons why it's troublesome trying to figure out poison-centric abilities. My current in-progress revision is experimenting with downgrading resistance/immunity a stage (Ignore resistance, treat immunity as resistance), but that gets rid of half the reason to use Poisoner whilst the Bandolier's ability to craft poisons already mostly blows up the other half. Hm.
I think that having an alternative “poison” could be a good place to potentially bring in using the Exhaustion mechanic. I know how you wish there were more things that did that.
This one's a good bit spicier, probably a little overtuned, but I like the shape of it better. Major changes as listed below, above the full plaintext.
3rd: Changed Corrosive Treatment to Venomous Treatment. Attacks with the specific weapon/ammunition effected ignore resistance and treat immunity as resistance. Overlap with Poisoner feat is avoided because Poisoner lets you ignore ALL poison immunity; Venomous Treatment is stronger but only affects the specific weapon/ammunition so treated.
3rd: Added Brewer's Supplies to the list of things that could make something for the Toxicologist's Bandolier, and added 'Fermented Funk' to the list of special compounds. Cleaned up some of the language with the Bandolier; it's still a ridiculous word glut especially with the new Funk, but hopefully it's clearer.
9th: Deep-sixed Adjusted Dosage. Cool idea, just not a practical one for a homebrew subclass without full ESL spell access. Instead, moved System Shock to 9th level and reworded the ability. Nerfed Chemical Burns to not allow the rolling of 30d4 additional damage with a clever party that can land a billion attacks. Slightly nerfed Toxic Shock to give it less of a speed onus - it now sucks at slowing down most bosses but it's technically better against really slow things?
15th: Added a new subcapstone, Tainted Love. Resistance to poison/acid damage, and the Poisoned condition gives a huge buff instead of a debuff. If you want to not be Poisoned despite the huge buff (such as when a 'Poisoned in this way' rider on a critter sucks ass) you have advantage on saves against poison, and you can use your action to save against poison affecting you even if the thing that poisoned you doesn't say you can. When you Adrenaline Surge yourself, you count as Poisoned until the surge fades.
It's spicy, and probably too complex for 5e people, but I like System Shock coming online midgame instead of lategame, and dispensing with the idea of mimicking the Alchemist's healing. Let those guys keep it, they don't want to share it anyways. Toxicologists are all about manipulating poison and making their enemies suffer anyways. I have not fixed the ESL yet, that's on the to-do list, but the features feel like they're starting to solidify a bit.
Any second-round thoughts?
SECOND DRAFT
Some artificers pursue the arts of the Alchemist, conducting experiments in well-secured, well stocked laboratories in pursuit of knowledge both mundane and arcane. Some artificers prefer a more hands-on approach, taking applied chemistry to its more insidious ends. These artificers are just as at home in royal courts and high society as they are in a laboratory, and as at home in the field exploring ancient tombs or subtly undermining their patron’s enemies as they are in either. These artificers apply their knowledge in ways typical alchemists are far too skittish and cerebral to undertake.
These artificers are instead often referred to as Toxicologists.
This alternative interpretation of the more traditional Alchemist focuses on restoring the combat power of the 2019 UA Alchemist, as well as eliminating the bothersome and undesirable “Experimental Elixir” mechanic altogether.
3 Level: Tools of the Trade You gain proficiency with the Poisoner’s Kit. If you already have this proficiency, you gain proficiency with one other type of artisan’s tool of your choice.
3 Level: Toxicologist Expanded Spell List 1: Ray of Sickness, Inflict Wounds 2: Lesser Restoration, Ray of Enfeeblement 3: Revivify, Stinking Cloud 4: Elemental Bane, Vitriolic Sphere 5: Cloudkill, Raise Dead
3 Level: Venomous Treatment Beginning at 3 level, you learn how to apply special oils and treatments to your weapons to give them a caustic bite. When you complete a long rest, you may choose one simple or martial weapon or up to twenty pieces of ammunition you can touch. If you have your poisoner’s kit on hand, you can apply chemical coatings to the chosen weapon or ammunition that last until your next long rest. While the coating is in effect, the damage type of the affected weapon or ammunition changes to poison or acid (your choice). When you hit a creature with an attack using the weapon or ammunition, the attack ignores resistance to poison or acid damage. If the creature is immune to poison or acid, it is treated as resistant to the attack instead of immune.
3 Level: Toxicologist’s Bandolier Beginning at 3 level, you create a special harness and quick-deploy vials that aid you in the swift and efficient delivery of all the various compounds you can craft – a Toxicologist’s Bandolier. The bandolier can store doses of poison, magical potions, or containers of acid, collectively referred to as ‘compounds’. Storing a compound properly in the bandolier requires an action, and the bandolier can store a number of compounds equivalent to twice your Intelligence modifier. While a compound is stored in your bandolier, you may retrieve and use it as a bonus action. Poisons are used however the poison tells you it should be used; potions may be consumed or administered to another willing ally you can touch (unconscious allies count as willing when administering healing potions); acid may be thrown.
You’ve also learned how to create a few handy new special compounds, though they require your bandolier’s magic to remain stable. When you complete a long rest with empty slots in your bandolier, you may add new compounds to it using the tools at your disposal. If any of these special compound spends more than one minute outside the bandolier, it loses its potency and disappears. You can create a number of special compounds equivalent to your proficiency bonus at the end of a long rest, provided your bandolier has room to contain them and you have the tools required to create the compound. You may create any combination of special compounds which you have the tools and proficiency to make. The tool proficiencies you have determine which special compounds you can make, as follows.
Poisoner’s Kit: You can create Virulent Poison. A does of virulent poison can be applied to a melee weapon or a single piece of ammunition. Virulent poison deals 2d8 poison damage when the weapon or ammunition it’s applied to hits a creature.
Alchemist’s Supplies: You can create Hydrodynamic Acid. A vial of hydrodynamic acid can be thrown at a creature or object within 30 feet; make a ranged weapon attack using the acid. You are proficient in the attack. On a hit, the target suffers 3d4 acid damage. The acid can be poured out on an object one can touch, dealing the same damage.
Brewer’s Supplies: You can create Fermented Funk. Fermented Funk can be drunk, or it can be added to any other beverage; a creature can detect the presence of Fermented Funk in a drink with a Wisdom (Perception) check using smell against your spell save DC. A creature that ingests Fermented Funk must make a Constitution saving throw against your spell save DC; on a failure the creature is Poisoned for one minute. While Poisoned this way, the creature suffers two levels of Exhaustion. Exhaustion gained from Fermented Funk is lost when the Funk wears off.
Herbalism Kit: You can create an Herbal Tonic. Herbal tonics restore hit points equivalent to 1d6+your Intelligence modifier to a creature which uses its action to consume it. Administering an herbal tonic from your bandolier requires a bonus action, instead.
5: Extra Attack
9 Level: System Shock You’ve learned secrets of biology and anatomy that let you use intense bursts of toxins to induce effects beyond the symptoms of the toxin itself. On any turn where you deal 25 or more poison or acid damage, or where you heal an ally for 25 or more hit points, you may induce a System Shock. System Shocks last until the beginning of your next turn.
Poison damage: The target suffers from Toxic Shock. While suffering from Toxic Shock, the creature’s speed is reduced by 15 feet and it must subtract 1d4 from each attack roll or damage roll it makes. Acid damage: The target (which can be an object) suffers a Chemical Burn. While suffering from the Chemical Burn, the target’s AC is reduced by 1, and the first time on a turn that it suffers damage, it suffers an additional 1d4 damage of the same type (if a hit deals more than one type of damage, the player chooses which type to deal extra damage from). Healing: The creature healed experiences an Adrenaline Surge. Its speed increases by 10 feet and it adds 1d4 to any damage roll it makes.
15 Level: Tainted Love By fifteenth level, your long experience with toxins has warped your body, inuring you to their effects and allowing you to ride their toxic high in ways few others can comprehend.
You gain resistance to poison and acid damage. In addition, whenever you are suffering from the Poisoned condition, your speed increases by five feet and you gain advantage on attack rolls and ability checks, not disadvantage. Should you wish to resist becoming poisoned, you have advantage on any save to do so. While you are poisoned, you can use your action to make a saving throw against a single poison affecting you, against the original DC. On a success, the poison fades. Whenever you experience an Adrenaline Surge, you count as being Poisoned until the surge fades.
I don't think there's anything mechanically that stands out as needing changed.
Exhaustion on a poison is interesting, might need to clarify if it's cumulative, e.g- if you can get three samples into someone's food and/or drink does it straight up kill them? That could be interesting to keep though actually as three doses would presumably mean three checks to detect it, so it's higher risk vs. high reward?
I noticed one spelling mistake under Virulent Poison, there's a "does" instead of "doses" (which I misspelled twice myself just now).
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So after discussion with one of the DMs for the campaigns we're running in our group and a night to sleep on it, a few other concerns and ideas came up. Think we're closing in on time to start smashing at the builder and hoping I can get this dumb thing implemented.
@Haravikk: My notion was that Fermented Funk doesn't stack. Figured the core rules covered that, but honestly I might leave that one open to DM interpretation. Exhaustion was keyed to simulate the effects of being super ******* drunk for a minute or so from this ridiculously potent shot; I could rejigger it to be something else, especially since Poisoned condition and the first stage of Exhaustion basically do the same thing. If a DM wants to rule that Fermented Funk only works the one time, that's fine. If they want to rule that an artificer who manages to flummox somebody into drinking this shit three times inside a single minute has killed that person? Also fine.
In General: Probably going to reverse Tainted Love a bit. Rather "when you're Adrenaline Surging you count as Poisoned", rewrite it to "when you're Poisoned, you also experience an Adrenaline Surge". That feels a lot cleaner to me, and more logical, too - being healed a lot doesn't really work as a method for triggering a toxin rejection response, but somebody who's this ****ed up on poison all the time getting a big adrenaline kick off of being Poisoned definitely sounds plausible. DM is concerned Tainted Love is too narrow - unless the artificer invests in a way outside the subclass to Poison themselves, his concern is a Toxicologist at 15+ could go half a dozen games without ever using that benefit. Thoughts on this concern?
Also considering reining in Venomous Treatment. Right now, as written, it allows somebody to whammy a poison-immune critter with Purple Worm Poison and/or anything else they can affix to their blade. Admittedly, PWP is outrageously expensive, but the point remains that many DMs will not love me for allowing players to bypass poison immunity. Pondering whether it should be changed from "damage from attacks with this weapon" to "damage from this weapon". Tightens it up a bit and gives the Poisoner feat more room to play, though I'm also wary of making Poisoner too attractive a pick. The Toxicologist should be able to stand on its own without the feat; Poisoner can certainly help but it shouldn't feel mandatory.
@Sposta: May be in touch with you later on how the figgety-fudgenewton one would convince the homebrew builder to get some of these to work, at which point this may end up heading to the Homebrew subforum as well as here.
Thank you for your feedback and assistance, everyone. If I can assemble an ESL the system won't spit back in my face, I'll make sure the final fruits of this work are available to everyone.
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So after getting told off in the Tasha's specuilation thread by folks who think the Rising Alchemist is playable (spoilers: it's not) and informed to "fix it myself if I hate it that bad" (spoilers again: I already did. DDB Cease-and-Desist'd me and told me never to do it again), I've been brainstorming for most of a week on a new variation on the idea of a 'chemical-y' artificer. One that kicks healing to the distinct back seat in favor of harming its enemies and inflicting debilitating debuffs, protecting its allies by ensuring its enemies are too busy dealing with their insides melting to bother chewing on the party. I'm posting here rather than the Homebrew forum because this isn't actually homebrew yet, but more of a "where do you see issues/what would you change?" thing, collecting ideas from people who actually play artificers.
This is an early draft of what I'm currently calling the Toxicologist. Class features are not even remotely set in stone. Nor, for that matter, is the name of the subclass. Unfortunately, with the way Expanded Spell Lists work on DDB I'll likely never be able to share this with folks publicly since we can't ever use anything outside the enormously inadequate Basic Rules for ESLs, but if people take a shine to the idea I'll work up as close as I can get to a usable version with directions for patching the spells in. That said, let me know what you think of this notion and where I've misstepped.
The Toxicologist
Some artificers pursue the ancient, time-honored art of alchemy, seeking to create elixirs that can induce bizarre, unpredictable magical effects in their imbibers. Some artificers, however, prefer more certainty in their work. Some artificers know that the difference between a curative drug that purges a body of sickness and a toxin that purges a body of life is often little more than a matter of dosage. Some artificers prefer a more hands-on approach to adventuring work than the accident-prone laboratories of their more well-known ‘colleagues’.
Some artificers choose to take up the path of the Toxicologist.
This alternative interpretation of the more traditional Alchemist focuses on restoring the combat power of the 2019 UA Alchemist, as well as eliminating the bothersome and undesirable “Experimental Elixir” mechanic altogether.
3 Level: Tools of the Trade
You gain proficiency with the Poisoner’s Kit. If you already have this proficiency, you gain proficiency with one other type of artisan’s tool of your choice.
3 Level: Toxicologist Expanded Spell List
1: Ray of Sickness, Inflict Wounds
2: Lesser Restoration, Ray of Enfeeblement
3: Revivify, Stinking Cloud
4: Elemental Bane, Vitriolic Sphere
5: Cloudkill, Raise Dead
3 Level: Corrosive Treatment
Beginning at 3 level, you learn how to apply special oils and treatments to your weapons to give them a caustic bite. When you complete a long rest, you may choose one simple or martial weapon or up to twenty pieces of ammunition you can touch. If you have your poisoner’s kit on hand, you can apply chemical coatings to the chosen weapon or ammunition that last until your next long rest. While the coating is in effect, the damage type of the affected weapon or ammunition changes to poison or acid (your choice).
3 Level:Toxicologist’s Bandolier
Beginning at 3 level, you create a special harness that aids you in the swift and efficient delivery of all the various compounds you can craft – a Toxicologist’s Bandolier. The bandolier can store doses of poison, magical potions, or containers of acid, collectively referred to as ‘compounds’. It can store a number of such compounds equivalent to twice your Intelligence modifier. While a compound is stored in your bandolier, you may retrieve and use it as a bonus action. Poisons may be applied to a weapon or ammunition as the poison indicates; potions may be consumed or administered to another willing ally you can touch; acid may be thrown.
When you complete a long rest with empty slots in your bandolier, you may add new compounds to it using the tools at your disposal. The bandolier’s magic keeps these special compounds potent until they’re removed and used. If any special compound spends more than one minute outside the bandolier, it loses its potency and disappears. You can create a number of special compounds equivalent to your proficiency bonus at the end of a long rest, provided your bandolier has room to contain them. You may create any combination of special compounds which you have the tools and proficiency to make.
You may create virulent poison with your poisoner’s kit. A dose of virulent poison can be applied to a melee weapon, or to a single piece of ammunition. Votent poison deals 2d8 poison damage when the weapon or ammunition it’s applied to hits a target.
If you are proficient with the Herbalism Kit and have it on hand, you may create a healing booster. When consumed, healing boosters restore hit points to a target equivalent to 1d6 + your Intelligence modifier.
If you are proficient with alchemist’s supplies and have them on hand, you may create vials of hydrodynamic acid. Hydrodynamic acid can be thrown at a creature or object within thirty feet; make a ranged weapon attack using the acid. On a hit, the target suffers 3d4 acid damage. Hydrodynamic acid can also be poured out on an object one can touch, dealing the same damage.
5 Level: Extra Attack
9 Level: Adjusted Dosage
Your experience with toxins has given you insight into their function and how to tune their effects to be palliative rather than destructive. When you cast a spell that deals poison damage or inflicts the Poisoned condition, you may target a willing allied creature rather than a hostile one. If you do, the target regains hit points equivalent to the damage you roll for the spell, rather than suffering damage. If you inflict the Poisoned condition with this spell, the target does not suffer disadvantage on attack rolls and ability checks while Poisoned in this way. Instead, they have advantage on the same checks. You may affect an ally this way a number of times equal to your Intelligence modifier (minimum of once), and regain all expended uses when you complete a long rest.
15 Level: System Shock
Your ability to influence your chosen victims’ systems with your toxins reaches a crescendo. You’ve learned how to use intense surges of toxins to shock a target’s system, temporarily debilitating it even beyond the effects of your compounds themselves.
On any turn where you deal 25 or more poison damage to a creature, it suffers from Toxic Shock until the start of your next turn. While suffering from Toxic Shock, the creature’s speed is reduced by half and it must subtract 1d4 from any attack roll or damage roll it makes.
On any turn where you deal 25 or more acid damage to a creature, it suffers a Chemical Burn until the start of your next turn. While suffering from a Chemical Burn, its Armor Class is reduced by 1, and whenever the creature takes damage, it suffers an additional 1d4 damage of the same type (if a source deals more than one type of damage, the player chooses which type of extra damage to deal).
On any turn where you restore 25 or more hit points to a creature, that creature experiences an Adrenaline Surge. While experiencing an Adrenaline Surge, a creature’s speed increases by ten feet and it adds 1d4 to attack and damage rolls it makes.
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I like it.
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I agree, this sounds like a really fun Artificer to play. I especially like the ability to pick poison or acid for damage so that you can be effective even when facing the plethora of creatures resistant or immune to poison while still allowing you to use poison damage reliably when you want. I also like how different tools can created different concoctions, fitting into the artificer’s theme of being tool monkeys. The healing abilities of this subclass are also creative and sound like they will be fun to use.
Honesty, I would totally use this. I’m already thinking of possible ideas that could mesh with this but I’m currently at work and would need more time to collect my thoughts.
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I do wish that each of the three kits allowed The Toxicologist to make two different things, at least at some point. Or maybe if you use an Herbs Kit in conjunction with a poison kit you can make poison B or booster B, if you used an alchemy kit with a poison kit you could make poison C or ”Chemical” C, something like that.
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I like this a lot. Good job Yurei.
I will admit, I want to try and figure out how to get around poison resistance/immunity. Acid damage is a decent enough workaround, especially since caustics are perfectly in line with a rebranded 'Alchemist', but it just feels off that the Poison Gal artificer isn't any better at utilizing poison than a regular somebody else. Hm.
My other query is this: does the 'Toxicologist's Bandolier' seem remotely correct? One of J-Craw's rules for artificers, and one I agree with, is that all artificer subclasses need to make something. They need to have a physical thing that exists in the world which helps them out, but that's a hard thing to work in with a toxin specialist. Hrnn.
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That’s kinda why I was suggesting some way to incorporate the different tool kits to allow the PC to make variations of their stuff. One of those variations could be a version that in some way addresses resistance, and it would give them more physical things to make.
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I personally think the bandolier works fine here, especially since as you mentioned it is hard to think of another physical thing to have as their main contraption. I did consider a syringe like item being a potential artificer creation used to inject the toxic concoctions into enemies or allies but I would have no idea how to implement it, so the bandolier would be the obvious choice. The ability to use any item in the bandolier's compartments on a bonus action makes being a potion/flask flinger much more effective while also fitting with how artificers use there bonus action it utilize there main feature. Would you also be able to keep potions and other liquids on the bandolier that you did not create using your class features, such as potions that you find as loot?
Looking more closely at the flavor of the Toxicologist, the other ideas that popped into my head may not really fit as they seemed to lean more towards a full blown chemist instead of the Toxicologist theme. Still, I think it is really solid even as a first draft.
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
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I was having fun with some other ideas for what the other tool's and kits could create using this artificer's features but was too afraid it was going more chemist then toxicologist. Some are also harder to come up with ideas for then others to be fair.
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The intent was that one could store regular potions, flasks of PHB acid, and stuff like Purple Worm or Drow poison or whatever in the bandolier for quick use, yes. Those things obey their normal rules, but the bandolier lets you use them on a bonus.
@Sposta: It's already breaking form to 'require' other tool kits beyond the Tool of the Trade. I like the idea, but it feels like one of those things that should be considered carefully. Hm. Maybe there's room for a double-dip feature at 9th. I shall sleep on it.
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I really like this, though I've got a few queries about it:
I do wonder if it would make sense to have a trait that lets you ignore poison resistance, and treat immunity as resistance instead maybe? It could be limited to INT uses per long rest, to represent you having a stock of high concentration poisons? Either that or maybe keeping with the Corrosive Treatment style, allows you to swap poison and acid damage on any spell, as most enemies that are totally immune to one should still be susceptible to the other.
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Hm. Excellent notes, Haravikk.
I'm super fond of the idea of Corrosive Treatment, it feels wonderfully thematic and strategic to be able to alter the base damage type of a weapon, but you have a point where it comes to the basic application potentially being more harmful than helpful. My notion was bypassing physical damage resistances/immunities, but poison res/imm is much more prevalent at lower levels. Hmm. Would this be a place to do the res/imm piercing, perhaps? "Attacks with this weapon ignore resistance to poison or acid damage, and treat immunity to poison or acid damage as resistance instead"? That would mean the artificer can bypass those protections and still potentially apply its System Shock later, but only with its chosen weapon/ammunition, rather than any-dang-thing it pleases? Or is this particular ability more trouble than it's worth and a candidate for replacement?
Extra Attack was one of the pillars of the subclass, for me. I didn't want a cantrip specialist, especially since the poison and acid cantrips are both heckin' awful and the Bandolier mechanic emphasizes applying poisons via weapons rather than toxifarting at folks. I wanted to try and recapture some of the spirit of the 2019 UA Alchemist as a useful, highly strategic combatant without relying on any of the mechanics of the actual Alchemist, since mucking about with the Rising Alchemist is taboo. EA is staying regardless, but I could certainly look into adjusting the rest of the subclass to make the choice of martial combat over magical combat more natural. Any ideas?
Adjusted Dosage is limited to INT modifier uses per long rest, as it currently sits. No spamming Poison Spray for infinite heals, unless you have infinite Intelligence somehow. This is another one where I really like the idea behind the mechanic but I'm unsure if it's the right way to go. Lots of stuff in the game turns defense into offense; very little turns offense into defense. Repurposing poison spells as healing spells allows the Toxicologist to prepare less healing and still be able to do it in a pinch, and it does offer some small reason to actually bother using Poison Spray, but it turns out spells that deal poison damage or inflict the Poisoned condition are SUPER FRICKIN' RARE. Ray of Sickness is basically it, and Ray of Sickness prevents me from publishing the class because it's PHB, not SRD. And yet, I can't not include it because Ray of Sickness is basically the only spell that Adjusted Dosage works properly with. Ugh. Wizards really does hate poison damage, doesn't it?
Did I screw up System Shock. Hm. Double-checking
.
..
...yep. I missed the "start of your next turn" on Adrenaline Surge. Poopy. You're right, all the effects last until the start of the Toxicologist's next turn. They can occur on any turn though, meaning that a Toxicologist who strikes out of turn via opportunity attack or the like could potentially inflict a System Shock effect. Hm. The idea was to reward investment and make the choice of when and where to use the bandolier's available toxins more interesting, since you don't always just wanna spike damage like a mofo and instead may want to wait for a moment when debilitating the target would be of greatest benefit before burning a poison. It also makes weapon crits especially crunchy, since it's not "damage from a single hit", it's "damage in a single turn". If your two-hit multiattack totals over 25 of the given damage type, you inflict the System Shock effect. If you can juggle stuff such that you inflict over 25 damage of both offensive System Shocks in one turn, you can inflict both System Shock effects and really scramble a critter's insides. That sort of turn is what people playing at level 15+ are looking for, I figured. It is a very complicated ability though, given that it has to cover three different 'damage' types. Hm.
Thanks much for the poignant and useful feedback, Haravikk. You've given me some good thinking points to mull over.
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Yeah, I think that could be a great place to work it in, especially with the martial focus.
To clarify I'm not questioning the inclusion of Extra Attack as a feature, I'm just saying that in terms of the background to the class it could do with a bit of flavour that suggests why these poison artificers are also extra stabby. I'm not thinking of mechanical changes, more just a tweak to the flavour paragraph at the start; I mean you have mentioned Toxicologists being more "hands on", but that doesn't scream "hits stuff", to me at least.
This is why I was thinking counter-operative might work as an added note, e.g- "Some artificers are at home at the heart of royal intrigues, foiling assassinations and poisonings, or conducting a few of their own." or something like that? It was just a thought, maybe it wouldn't mesh with your own intended flavour?
But yeah, mechanically I'm fine with the Extra Attack, after all it builds nicely on the poisoned/acid weapon for a more melee focused Artificer build with a bag (or bandolier) of tricks.
Oh, in that case I've just missed the INT limit somehow so ignore me on that. That should be fine then, I've taken a closer look and there just aren't that many poison spells in the first place, let alone for Artificers.
As for publishing a homebrew, I believe you can add homebrew spells to it without issue, you just need to publish the spells before you publish the sub-class; so if you can come up with a Ray of Sickness alternative then that should work for publishing it. Hopefully someone can confirm this though, as I've never actually done it and could be wrong (but it'll either let you do it or it won't).
No worries, I like the ability and I knew how you meant for it to work, just thought it needed clarifying.
You're welcome! I love homebrewing stuff, and know how useful feedback can be, so I try to give some whenever I can!
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This subclass seems like it will pair nicely with the currently UA Poisoner feat. The choice of acid damage could get around poison immune creatures, but for mere resistance this would be a natural and useful combo.
Part of the intent was to mimic aspects of the Poisoner feat without stepping on that feat's toes. One of the reasons why it's troublesome trying to figure out poison-centric abilities. My current in-progress revision is experimenting with downgrading resistance/immunity a stage (Ignore resistance, treat immunity as resistance), but that gets rid of half the reason to use Poisoner whilst the Bandolier's ability to craft poisons already mostly blows up the other half. Hm.
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I think that having an alternative “poison” could be a good place to potentially bring in using the Exhaustion mechanic. I know how you wish there were more things that did that.
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ALL RIGHT. SECOND DRAFT TIME.
This one's a good bit spicier, probably a little overtuned, but I like the shape of it better. Major changes as listed below, above the full plaintext.
3rd: Changed Corrosive Treatment to Venomous Treatment. Attacks with the specific weapon/ammunition effected ignore resistance and treat immunity as resistance. Overlap with Poisoner feat is avoided because Poisoner lets you ignore ALL poison immunity; Venomous Treatment is stronger but only affects the specific weapon/ammunition so treated.
3rd: Added Brewer's Supplies to the list of things that could make something for the Toxicologist's Bandolier, and added 'Fermented Funk' to the list of special compounds. Cleaned up some of the language with the Bandolier; it's still a ridiculous word glut especially with the new Funk, but hopefully it's clearer.
9th: Deep-sixed Adjusted Dosage. Cool idea, just not a practical one for a homebrew subclass without full ESL spell access. Instead, moved System Shock to 9th level and reworded the ability. Nerfed Chemical Burns to not allow the rolling of 30d4 additional damage with a clever party that can land a billion attacks. Slightly nerfed Toxic Shock to give it less of a speed onus - it now sucks at slowing down most bosses but it's technically better against really slow things?
15th: Added a new subcapstone, Tainted Love. Resistance to poison/acid damage, and the Poisoned condition gives a huge buff instead of a debuff. If you want to not be Poisoned despite the huge buff (such as when a 'Poisoned in this way' rider on a critter sucks ass) you have advantage on saves against poison, and you can use your action to save against poison affecting you even if the thing that poisoned you doesn't say you can. When you Adrenaline Surge yourself, you count as Poisoned until the surge fades.
It's spicy, and probably too complex for 5e people, but I like System Shock coming online midgame instead of lategame, and dispensing with the idea of mimicking the Alchemist's healing. Let those guys keep it, they don't want to share it anyways. Toxicologists are all about manipulating poison and making their enemies suffer anyways. I have not fixed the ESL yet, that's on the to-do list, but the features feel like they're starting to solidify a bit.
Any second-round thoughts?
SECOND DRAFT
Some artificers pursue the arts of the Alchemist, conducting experiments in well-secured, well stocked laboratories in pursuit of knowledge both mundane and arcane. Some artificers prefer a more hands-on approach, taking applied chemistry to its more insidious ends. These artificers are just as at home in royal courts and high society as they are in a laboratory, and as at home in the field exploring ancient tombs or subtly undermining their patron’s enemies as they are in either. These artificers apply their knowledge in ways typical alchemists are far too skittish and cerebral to undertake.
These artificers are instead often referred to as Toxicologists.
This alternative interpretation of the more traditional Alchemist focuses on restoring the combat power of the 2019 UA Alchemist, as well as eliminating the bothersome and undesirable “Experimental Elixir” mechanic altogether.
3 Level: Tools of the Trade
You gain proficiency with the Poisoner’s Kit. If you already have this proficiency, you gain proficiency with one other type of artisan’s tool of your choice.
3 Level: Toxicologist Expanded Spell List
1: Ray of Sickness, Inflict Wounds
2: Lesser Restoration, Ray of Enfeeblement
3: Revivify, Stinking Cloud
4: Elemental Bane, Vitriolic Sphere
5: Cloudkill, Raise Dead
3 Level: Venomous Treatment
Beginning at 3 level, you learn how to apply special oils and treatments to your weapons to give them a caustic bite. When you complete a long rest, you may choose one simple or martial weapon or up to twenty pieces of ammunition you can touch. If you have your poisoner’s kit on hand, you can apply chemical coatings to the chosen weapon or ammunition that last until your next long rest. While the coating is in effect, the damage type of the affected weapon or ammunition changes to poison or acid (your choice). When you hit a creature with an attack using the weapon or ammunition, the attack ignores resistance to poison or acid damage. If the creature is immune to poison or acid, it is treated as resistant to the attack instead of immune.
3 Level: Toxicologist’s Bandolier
Beginning at 3 level, you create a special harness and quick-deploy vials that aid you in the swift and efficient delivery of all the various compounds you can craft – a Toxicologist’s Bandolier. The bandolier can store doses of poison, magical potions, or containers of acid, collectively referred to as ‘compounds’. Storing a compound properly in the bandolier requires an action, and the bandolier can store a number of compounds equivalent to twice your Intelligence modifier. While a compound is stored in your bandolier, you may retrieve and use it as a bonus action. Poisons are used however the poison tells you it should be used; potions may be consumed or administered to another willing ally you can touch (unconscious allies count as willing when administering healing potions); acid may be thrown.
You’ve also learned how to create a few handy new special compounds, though they require your bandolier’s magic to remain stable. When you complete a long rest with empty slots in your bandolier, you may add new compounds to it using the tools at your disposal. If any of these special compound spends more than one minute outside the bandolier, it loses its potency and disappears. You can create a number of special compounds equivalent to your proficiency bonus at the end of a long rest, provided your bandolier has room to contain them and you have the tools required to create the compound. You may create any combination of special compounds which you have the tools and proficiency to make. The tool proficiencies you have determine which special compounds you can make, as follows.
Poisoner’s Kit: You can create Virulent Poison. A does of virulent poison can be applied to a melee weapon or a single piece of ammunition. Virulent poison deals 2d8 poison damage when the weapon or ammunition it’s applied to hits a creature.
Alchemist’s Supplies: You can create Hydrodynamic Acid. A vial of hydrodynamic acid can be thrown at a creature or object within 30 feet; make a ranged weapon attack using the acid. You are proficient in the attack. On a hit, the target suffers 3d4 acid damage. The acid can be poured out on an object one can touch, dealing the same damage.
Brewer’s Supplies: You can create Fermented Funk. Fermented Funk can be drunk, or it can be added to any other beverage; a creature can detect the presence of Fermented Funk in a drink with a Wisdom (Perception) check using smell against your spell save DC. A creature that ingests Fermented Funk must make a Constitution saving throw against your spell save DC; on a failure the creature is Poisoned for one minute. While Poisoned this way, the creature suffers two levels of Exhaustion. Exhaustion gained from Fermented Funk is lost when the Funk wears off.
Herbalism Kit: You can create an Herbal Tonic. Herbal tonics restore hit points equivalent to 1d6+your Intelligence modifier to a creature which uses its action to consume it. Administering an herbal tonic from your bandolier requires a bonus action, instead.
5: Extra Attack
9 Level: System Shock
You’ve learned secrets of biology and anatomy that let you use intense bursts of toxins to induce effects beyond the symptoms of the toxin itself. On any turn where you deal 25 or more poison or acid damage, or where you heal an ally for 25 or more hit points, you may induce a System Shock. System Shocks last until the beginning of your next turn.
Poison damage: The target suffers from Toxic Shock. While suffering from Toxic Shock, the creature’s speed is reduced by 15 feet and it must subtract 1d4 from each attack roll or damage roll it makes.
Acid damage: The target (which can be an object) suffers a Chemical Burn. While suffering from the Chemical Burn, the target’s AC is reduced by 1, and the first time on a turn that it suffers damage, it suffers an additional 1d4 damage of the same type (if a hit deals more than one type of damage, the player chooses which type to deal extra damage from).
Healing: The creature healed experiences an Adrenaline Surge. Its speed increases by 10 feet and it adds 1d4 to any damage roll it makes.
15 Level: Tainted Love
By fifteenth level, your long experience with toxins has warped your body, inuring you to their effects and allowing you to ride their toxic high in ways few others can comprehend.
You gain resistance to poison and acid damage. In addition, whenever you are suffering from the Poisoned condition, your speed increases by five feet and you gain advantage on attack rolls and ability checks, not disadvantage. Should you wish to resist becoming poisoned, you have advantage on any save to do so. While you are poisoned, you can use your action to make a saving throw against a single poison affecting you, against the original DC. On a success, the poison fades. Whenever you experience an Adrenaline Surge, you count as being Poisoned until the surge fades.
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Looks good!
I don't think there's anything mechanically that stands out as needing changed.
Exhaustion on a poison is interesting, might need to clarify if it's cumulative, e.g- if you can get three samples into someone's food and/or drink does it straight up kill them? That could be interesting to keep though actually as three doses would presumably mean three checks to detect it, so it's higher risk vs. high reward?
I noticed one spelling mistake under Virulent Poison, there's a "does" instead of "doses" (which I misspelled twice myself just now).
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I like this version better. It gives them more to make, and IMO feels like a better fit for what I think you were going for.
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So after discussion with one of the DMs for the campaigns we're running in our group and a night to sleep on it, a few other concerns and ideas came up. Think we're closing in on time to start smashing at the builder and hoping I can get this dumb thing implemented.
@Haravikk: My notion was that Fermented Funk doesn't stack. Figured the core rules covered that, but honestly I might leave that one open to DM interpretation. Exhaustion was keyed to simulate the effects of being super ******* drunk for a minute or so from this ridiculously potent shot; I could rejigger it to be something else, especially since Poisoned condition and the first stage of Exhaustion basically do the same thing. If a DM wants to rule that Fermented Funk only works the one time, that's fine. If they want to rule that an artificer who manages to flummox somebody into drinking this shit three times inside a single minute has killed that person? Also fine.
In General: Probably going to reverse Tainted Love a bit. Rather "when you're Adrenaline Surging you count as Poisoned", rewrite it to "when you're Poisoned, you also experience an Adrenaline Surge". That feels a lot cleaner to me, and more logical, too - being healed a lot doesn't really work as a method for triggering a toxin rejection response, but somebody who's this ****ed up on poison all the time getting a big adrenaline kick off of being Poisoned definitely sounds plausible. DM is concerned Tainted Love is too narrow - unless the artificer invests in a way outside the subclass to Poison themselves, his concern is a Toxicologist at 15+ could go half a dozen games without ever using that benefit. Thoughts on this concern?
Also considering reining in Venomous Treatment. Right now, as written, it allows somebody to whammy a poison-immune critter with Purple Worm Poison and/or anything else they can affix to their blade. Admittedly, PWP is outrageously expensive, but the point remains that many DMs will not love me for allowing players to bypass poison immunity. Pondering whether it should be changed from "damage from attacks with this weapon" to "damage from this weapon". Tightens it up a bit and gives the Poisoner feat more room to play, though I'm also wary of making Poisoner too attractive a pick. The Toxicologist should be able to stand on its own without the feat; Poisoner can certainly help but it shouldn't feel mandatory.
@Sposta: May be in touch with you later on how the figgety-fudgenewton one would convince the homebrew builder to get some of these to work, at which point this may end up heading to the Homebrew subforum as well as here.
Thank you for your feedback and assistance, everyone. If I can assemble an ESL the system won't spit back in my face, I'll make sure the final fruits of this work are available to everyone.
Please do not contact or message me.