But everyone just said that the Battle Master does the heaviest damage ? I want to be ale to do heavy damage as a Fighter, but also have abilities as a Sorcerer
But everyone just said that the Battle Master does the heaviest damage ? I want to be ale to do heavy damage as a Fighter, but also have abilities as a Sorcerer
You’ll do better as a Psi Warrior than you would Multiclassing. Multiclassing a Battle Master with a Sorcerer will just make a PC that’s mediocre at both things. Playing the Psi Warrior will make you good at both things instead. The Psi Warrior is a strong subclass and has all the bells and whistles you’re looking for in a single package.
out of curiosity what about a Battle Master Fighter combined with a Shadow Magic Sorcerer, multi class I mean, because the Darkness spell and the Hound of Ill Omen sound pretty good and their effects as well ? Is that a good build for multi class ?
out of curiosity what about a Battle Master Fighter combined with a Shadow Magic Sorcerer, multi class I mean, because the Darkness spell and the Hound of Ill Omen sound pretty good and their effects as well ? Is that a good build for multi class ?
The problem is you’re going to slow down stuff like your 3rd attack and your maneuvers, and you’ll have a slow spell progression and not enough Sorcery Points either. You’re probably going to end up frustrated by your slow progression in both classes if you do it. Sorcerer is not a class that lends itself well to multiclassing unless you only take 1 level of something like Hexblade, or only take 2-3 levels of Sorcerer and the right feats. Otherwise it’s either not enough Sorcerer to do it’s job right, or it’s not enough of the other thing to do it’s job right. I mean, if you really want to do it go ahead, but you would have a much stronger character by not multiclassing.
Multiclassing in general can be tricky, but especially with spellcasters. I would personally recommend playing a fighter and the. Playing a straight spellcaster before trying to worry about multiclassing them together. But that’s just me. Feel free to do what you want, it is D&D after all.
well, what do the pro DnD players do, I heard they multi class is that true or do they just stay pure class ?
There aren’t any “professional” D&D players, or, well, very few. What do the more experienced players do? We multiclass when it suits their character and play a straight monoclass character when that suits. For something like a Jedi, I would personally just play Psi Warrior since that subclass was specifically designed to be a Jedi-like character. Heck, if they could have called it a “Jedi” they probably would have. If I wanted to play a Sorcerer with a Sword I would play a Sorcerer with 1-2 levels of Hexblade Warlock, or 1-2 levels of Paladin. (Probably Paladin for the Smites.)
well, what do the pro DnD players do, I heard they multi class is that true or do they just stay pure class ?
I would say that the veteran players look for things other than power when they multiclass. They are often looking for something thematic or exploring a niche build. Or at least, they know how to make up for a lack of power through other means like items or leveraging other PCs to fill their gaps. You are playing with a limited pool of growth potential (levels). Taking levels away from one class to put into another reduces the potential of both. Monoclassing generally are more powerful than multiclassing in a particular thing (damage, facing, skill-monkey, etc.) when all other things are equal, though there are some exceptions.
For example, the sorcadin is said to be a very powerful multiclass, but it takes forever to get going. In fact, I have a player at my own table who just rolled a new PC (bard) because while all the other players were getting powerful monoclass PCs, his sorcadin was seriously lagging behind and just didn’t do much very well. They are level 5 and sorcadins don’t really ‘wake up’ until around level 8 from what I have read. While everyone else got their first ASI/feat, he got almost nothing at all. At level 20 however, the sorcadin build is apparently spectacular in combat.
Multiclassing can be a really easy trap to fall into, and when it goes wrong one of two things happens:
It's very easy to frontload a powerful character especially if you take a few levels to get a subclass, but once the campaign progresses to later levels, your character stands a serious chance of falling behind someone who is not multiclassing - what's worse, you could then be locked into a build you don't like playing.
Some multiclass builds take forever until they can function the way you want, and until they get there, they suck. Most campaigns will never reach those higher levels. These are the best builds to create when you're given the levels to do so at character creation.
I used to multiclass after watching videos and reading recommendations on how you can do absolutely insane damage, or be the best blaster, or the best anti-magic user. And those builds work extremely well - at only those abilities. You'll get your epic moment to be sure, but to build your entire character around being able to do a 100 damage crit can leave them lacking in other things like defensive abilities or utility, and IMO the more "rounded" characters mechanically are the more fun to play, and more fun to roleplay as. You also can't expect those "epic" moments to happen often, as they'd become a lot less epic.
Now, I multiclass for storytelling/character purposes, and even if some of them are not ideal, they're a hell of a lot more fun to play even if they do have some of the limitations. I rolled up an unholy 4 multiclass character for an Ebberon campaign that fit completely with her design, backstory, and abilities; she was nuts at earlier levels but once the campaign got into the mid-teens I found she was struggling a bit mechanically compared to those that didn't multiclass.
That's the thing though - even though she was struggling a bit, it wasn't enough for there to cause any extra friction or undue difficulty in the party.
When I first started playing DnD, I was like you in that I was looking for the highest damage builds possible, thinking that's how I could "win" - before realizing that my character could be anything I wanted them to be, but they couldn't be everything at the same time.
"Winning" DnD by dealing a lot of damage is a huge trap anyway. You never win DnD by dealing damage. Whatever kind of build you can come up with, even the most insane broken build possible, your DM can EASILY one-up you and kill the whole party if they really wanted to. You don't win DnD by dealing damage. You win DnD by creating a character you like to play and that your friends like to have in their party.
thanks for that I'll remember it, then I guess I'll experiment then
but you and everyone just confirmed that the Battle Master is the best the Fighter has to offer, thats why I'm prefferring the Battle Master over Psi Warrior
also its not just telekinesis I want my character to use, thats just part of it
I wanted my character to have something dark about him, something like he uses dark magic because of some contact with the shadow fell in his story or something like that, I've been reading some of the lore into DnD, and I like some of this Shadowfell place stuff
"Winning" DnD by dealing a lot of damage is a huge trap anyway. You never win DnD by dealing damage. Whatever kind of build you can come up with, even the most insane broken build possible, your DM can EASILY one-up you and kill the whole party if they really wanted to. You don't win DnD by dealing damage. You win DnD by creating a character you like to play and that your friends like to have in their party.
thanks for that I'll remember it, then I guess I'll experiment then
but you and everyone just confirmed that the Battle Master is the best the Fighter has to offer, thats why I'm prefferring the Battle Master over Psi Warrior
also its not just telekinesis I want my character to use, thats just part of it
I wanted my character to have something dark about him, something like he uses dark magic because of some contact with the shadow fell in his story or something like that, I've been reading some of the lore into DnD, and I like some of this Shadowfell place stuff
Not to harp on it, but there is no objective “best” This isn’t a video game where it’s more easily quantified. In D&D there are some classes/subclasses that will kick ass in some adventures, and the same character will be next to useless in another campaign. Every one is different. Yes, battle master is very versatile, and should do well in most situations. But sometimes, you might be in a:spot where a psi knight would be just a bit better.
So, as many of us have been trying to explain, the best one is the one that’s most fun for you to play when you’re hanging out with your friends. Granted, what’s fun for you might be doing a lot of damage, and I think you’ve got a good handle on how you might do that.
As far as making him dark, sure, lots of people enjoy that style. That’s more of a flavor thing. You can say your battle master powers (or psi knight, or anything) are the result of being taught by some dark creature. Many things can be accomplished by re-skins and role play, and what you’re describing sounds like an easy fit for that. I’d also consider looking through the backgrounds. Maybe work with your Dm to adapt the feylost background to the shadowfell. Or check out haunted one.
But everyone just said that the Battle Master does the heaviest damage ? I want to be ale to do heavy damage as a Fighter, but also have abilities as a Sorcerer
Feels to me like you're asking the wrong question; there is no truly bad fighter sub-class because all fighters do solid damage, and as others have pointed out the main factor in damage will really be what feats you take (great weapon master or polearm master being the favourites if damage is really what you want). No matter your sub-class you will always have a solid framework thanks to more basic attacks, plus Action Surge for double in a round etc.
But even then, this is only personal damage; the fighter that does the most damage is the fighter with a supportive party behind them, because nothing you do to your build is going to compare to someone casting bless and/or faerie fire to help you to hit more, or debuffing or controlling enemies so you don't have to take as much punishment and so-on.
People love Battle Master because it's flexible; a lot of its manoeuvres add damage to the attacks, but what often makes the biggest difference are the added effects that can not only benefit you, but also your party. In fact the most powerful of all the Battle Master's manoeuvres is Commander's Strike, because with that you can enable the party's Rogue (if you have one) to potentially deal their Sneak Attack damage twice in a round (as it's once per turn, not per round), this is a prime example of where how you fit into the party matters because while this doesn't increase your damage at all, it lets the Rogue deal more damage than you can (though you can and should count this as damage you've caused, as with any support ability).
No matter what sub-class you take you should never feel like a fighter isn't pulling their weight, because they consistently put out the most full weapon attacks, they deal solid damage, can heal themselves etc., but that's not all that a fighter is for; with a melee weapon you're the front-line, so that means keeping enemies occupied and away from your ranged allies, it means piling in and either taking a lot of punishment (so your allies don't have to) or being the one who the healer doesn't need to worry about (because you've got your own built in healing with Second Wind, take less damage due to a high AC etc.). With sword and shield the obvious choice of feat is Shield Master which, while it gives you some added durability, being able to Shove as a trailing bonus action means opening enemies up for your party to take advantage of (on their melee attacks), which is a great support ability, though you can use Action Surge to take some benefit of it yourself as well.
There are so, so many more factors than just damage, and that's without even talking about roleplaying which is really the factor that should be your first priority; you can build the most mechanically effective character of all time, but if you don't actually like who they are, it may not matter.
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I mean, the absolute best is obviously the Rune Knight, which you didn't even enquire about.
But what is best for me is different for others, as has been reiterated multiple times. Pick something that sounds fun, don't worry about damage, unless your group is just playing D&D as a combat simulator, in which case you'd be missing out on a lot.
but you and everyone just confirmed that the Battle Master is the best the Fighter has to offer, thats why I'm prefferring the Battle Master over Psi Warrior
[sic]
I wanted my character to have something dark about him, something like he uses dark magic because of some contact with the shadow fell in his story or something like that, I've been reading some of the lore into DnD, and I like some of this Shadowfell place stuff
No, we said out of the three choices you presented that the Battle Master does the most damage in a vacuum. That’s not the same as saying it’s “the best.” A Battle Master with a sword and a shield and no feats will do less damage than a Champion with a a Glaive and the Great Weapon Master and Polearm Master feats. And a Psi Warrior is better at fitting your idea than a Battle Master. So what is “best” then?!? Nothing is “best” except for the one that fits your idea “the best.”
You can take any subclass and flavor their powers as being from the Shadowfell, even the Champ’s.
oh, so DnD in some way is a team game, your character has to benefit the team, some characters you create maybe good, but if they do not benefit the team then they are no good for the campaign your team is playing in, am I right is that what you all are saying ?
And because Battle Master is versatile that's why its favored by players, but ultimately the character a DnD player creates should fit the story you created for the character and that whatever it is should benefit the team right ?
But what if somehow you get into a scuffle in the campaign with one of your team mates then wouldn't having a strong character be necessary because I heard there have been some cases that team members attacked each other because of a disagreement
But what if somehow you get into a scuffle in the campaign with one of your team mates then wouldn't having a strong character be necessary because I heard there have been some cases that team members attacked each other because of a disagreement
That almost never happens, and is outright forbidden from happening at some tables.
But everyone just said that the Battle Master does the heaviest damage ? I want to be ale to do heavy damage as a Fighter, but also have abilities as a Sorcerer
You’ll do better as a Psi Warrior than you would Multiclassing. Multiclassing a Battle Master with a Sorcerer will just make a PC that’s mediocre at both things. Playing the Psi Warrior will make you good at both things instead. The Psi Warrior is a strong subclass and has all the bells and whistles you’re looking for in a single package.
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out of curiosity what about a Battle Master Fighter combined with a Shadow Magic Sorcerer, multi class I mean, because the Darkness spell and the Hound of Ill Omen sound pretty good and their effects as well ? Is that a good build for multi class ?
The problem is you’re going to slow down stuff like your 3rd attack and your maneuvers, and you’ll have a slow spell progression and not enough Sorcery Points either. You’re probably going to end up frustrated by your slow progression in both classes if you do it. Sorcerer is not a class that lends itself well to multiclassing unless you only take 1 level of something like Hexblade, or only take 2-3 levels of Sorcerer and the right feats. Otherwise it’s either not enough Sorcerer to do it’s job right, or it’s not enough of the other thing to do it’s job right. I mean, if you really want to do it go ahead, but you would have a much stronger character by not multiclassing.
Multiclassing in general can be tricky, but especially with spellcasters. I would personally recommend playing a fighter and the. Playing a straight spellcaster before trying to worry about multiclassing them together. But that’s just me. Feel free to do what you want, it is D&D after all.
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well, what do the pro DnD players do, I heard they multi class is that true or do they just stay pure class ?
There aren’t any “professional” D&D players, or, well, very few. What do the more experienced players do? We multiclass when it suits their character and play a straight monoclass character when that suits. For something like a Jedi, I would personally just play Psi Warrior since that subclass was specifically designed to be a Jedi-like character. Heck, if they could have called it a “Jedi” they probably would have. If I wanted to play a Sorcerer with a Sword I would play a Sorcerer with 1-2 levels of Hexblade Warlock, or 1-2 levels of Paladin. (Probably Paladin for the Smites.)
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I would say that the veteran players look for things other than power when they multiclass. They are often looking for something thematic or exploring a niche build. Or at least, they know how to make up for a lack of power through other means like items or leveraging other PCs to fill their gaps. You are playing with a limited pool of growth potential (levels). Taking levels away from one class to put into another reduces the potential of both. Monoclassing generally are more powerful than multiclassing in a particular thing (damage, facing, skill-monkey, etc.) when all other things are equal, though there are some exceptions.
For example, the sorcadin is said to be a very powerful multiclass, but it takes forever to get going. In fact, I have a player at my own table who just rolled a new PC (bard) because while all the other players were getting powerful monoclass PCs, his sorcadin was seriously lagging behind and just didn’t do much very well. They are level 5 and sorcadins don’t really ‘wake up’ until around level 8 from what I have read. While everyone else got their first ASI/feat, he got almost nothing at all. At level 20 however, the sorcadin build is apparently spectacular in combat.
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Multiclassing can be a really easy trap to fall into, and when it goes wrong one of two things happens:
I used to multiclass after watching videos and reading recommendations on how you can do absolutely insane damage, or be the best blaster, or the best anti-magic user. And those builds work extremely well - at only those abilities. You'll get your epic moment to be sure, but to build your entire character around being able to do a 100 damage crit can leave them lacking in other things like defensive abilities or utility, and IMO the more "rounded" characters mechanically are the more fun to play, and more fun to roleplay as. You also can't expect those "epic" moments to happen often, as they'd become a lot less epic.
Now, I multiclass for storytelling/character purposes, and even if some of them are not ideal, they're a hell of a lot more fun to play even if they do have some of the limitations. I rolled up an unholy 4 multiclass character for an Ebberon campaign that fit completely with her design, backstory, and abilities; she was nuts at earlier levels but once the campaign got into the mid-teens I found she was struggling a bit mechanically compared to those that didn't multiclass.
That's the thing though - even though she was struggling a bit, it wasn't enough for there to cause any extra friction or undue difficulty in the party.
When I first started playing DnD, I was like you in that I was looking for the highest damage builds possible, thinking that's how I could "win" - before realizing that my character could be anything I wanted them to be, but they couldn't be everything at the same time.
thanks for that I'll remember it, then I guess I'll experiment then
but you and everyone just confirmed that the Battle Master is the best the Fighter has to offer, thats why I'm prefferring the Battle Master over Psi Warrior
also its not just telekinesis I want my character to use, thats just part of it
I wanted my character to have something dark about him, something like he uses dark magic because of some contact with the shadow fell in his story or something like that, I've been reading some of the lore into DnD, and I like some of this Shadowfell place stuff
Not to harp on it, but there is no objective “best” This isn’t a video game where it’s more easily quantified. In D&D there are some classes/subclasses that will kick ass in some adventures, and the same character will be next to useless in another campaign. Every one is different. Yes, battle master is very versatile, and should do well in most situations. But sometimes, you might be in a:spot where a psi knight would be just a bit better.
So, as many of us have been trying to explain, the best one is the one that’s most fun for you to play when you’re hanging out with your friends. Granted, what’s fun for you might be doing a lot of damage, and I think you’ve got a good handle on how you might do that.
As far as making him dark, sure, lots of people enjoy that style. That’s more of a flavor thing. You can say your battle master powers (or psi knight, or anything) are the result of being taught by some dark creature. Many things can be accomplished by re-skins and role play, and what you’re describing sounds like an easy fit for that. I’d also consider looking through the backgrounds. Maybe work with your Dm to adapt the feylost background to the shadowfell. Or check out haunted one.
Feels to me like you're asking the wrong question; there is no truly bad fighter sub-class because all fighters do solid damage, and as others have pointed out the main factor in damage will really be what feats you take (great weapon master or polearm master being the favourites if damage is really what you want). No matter your sub-class you will always have a solid framework thanks to more basic attacks, plus Action Surge for double in a round etc.
But even then, this is only personal damage; the fighter that does the most damage is the fighter with a supportive party behind them, because nothing you do to your build is going to compare to someone casting bless and/or faerie fire to help you to hit more, or debuffing or controlling enemies so you don't have to take as much punishment and so-on.
People love Battle Master because it's flexible; a lot of its manoeuvres add damage to the attacks, but what often makes the biggest difference are the added effects that can not only benefit you, but also your party. In fact the most powerful of all the Battle Master's manoeuvres is Commander's Strike, because with that you can enable the party's Rogue (if you have one) to potentially deal their Sneak Attack damage twice in a round (as it's once per turn, not per round), this is a prime example of where how you fit into the party matters because while this doesn't increase your damage at all, it lets the Rogue deal more damage than you can (though you can and should count this as damage you've caused, as with any support ability).
No matter what sub-class you take you should never feel like a fighter isn't pulling their weight, because they consistently put out the most full weapon attacks, they deal solid damage, can heal themselves etc., but that's not all that a fighter is for; with a melee weapon you're the front-line, so that means keeping enemies occupied and away from your ranged allies, it means piling in and either taking a lot of punishment (so your allies don't have to) or being the one who the healer doesn't need to worry about (because you've got your own built in healing with Second Wind, take less damage due to a high AC etc.). With sword and shield the obvious choice of feat is Shield Master which, while it gives you some added durability, being able to Shove as a trailing bonus action means opening enemies up for your party to take advantage of (on their melee attacks), which is a great support ability, though you can use Action Surge to take some benefit of it yourself as well.
There are so, so many more factors than just damage, and that's without even talking about roleplaying which is really the factor that should be your first priority; you can build the most mechanically effective character of all time, but if you don't actually like who they are, it may not matter.
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I mean, the absolute best is obviously the Rune Knight, which you didn't even enquire about.
But what is best for me is different for others, as has been reiterated multiple times. Pick something that sounds fun, don't worry about damage, unless your group is just playing D&D as a combat simulator, in which case you'd be missing out on a lot.
No, we said out of the three choices you presented that the Battle Master does the most damage in a vacuum. That’s not the same as saying it’s “the best.” A Battle Master with a sword and a shield and no feats will do less damage than a Champion with a a Glaive and the Great Weapon Master and Polearm Master feats. And a Psi Warrior is better at fitting your idea than a Battle Master. So what is “best” then?!? Nothing is “best” except for the one that fits your idea “the best.”
You can take any subclass and flavor their powers as being from the Shadowfell, even the Champ’s.
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oh, so DnD in some way is a team game, your character has to benefit the team, some characters you create maybe good, but if they do not benefit the team then they are no good for the campaign your team is playing in, am I right is that what you all are saying ?
And because Battle Master is versatile that's why its favored by players, but ultimately the character a DnD player creates should fit the story you created for the character and that whatever it is should benefit the team right ?
But what if somehow you get into a scuffle in the campaign with one of your team mates then wouldn't having a strong character be necessary because I heard there have been some cases that team members attacked each other because of a disagreement
That almost never happens, and is outright forbidden from happening at some tables.
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