If you cast a spell, such as healing word, with a bonus action, you can cast another spell with your action, but that other spell must be a cantrip. Keep in mind that this particular limit is specific to spells that use a bonus action. For instance, if you cast a second spell using Action Surge, you aren’t limited to casting a cantrip with it.
This is likely a topic that is going to come up in the campaign I'm about to run. One of my players is going to multi-class a fighter and wizard.
I'd like to point out that no one here has brought up the topic of the intention of a rule when its written. Yes we can pick apart the rules and find instances like this in order to try and utilize them for overpowered characters, but in reality we should be searching for what the designer was intending when the rule was written. Manipulating this rule can get out of hand very quickly at the table top. A 5th level character who is Fighter lvl 2 and Wizard lvl 3 can literally cast Scorching Ray twice potentially doling out 12d6 damage and then use Second Wind as a bonus action on the same turn. Its a bit much.
Although D&D is a world of magic and supernatural things, most of the rules are based in reality. For example, a single round in combat takes place in 6 seconds. Meaning the entirety of your turn and everything you do in it should take place in 6 seconds. With that in mind, the action surge ability, if you ask me, is the ability for a fighter to have a surge of energy allowing the fighter to move slightly faster then normal and granting the fighter an extra action, usually an attack. Its not inconceivable to think a creature could swing a weapon one more time in that time. What is inconceivable to me, is a wizard chanting two entire spells in the span of 6 seconds. This is what I think was intended when the rules were written. They allow a bonus action spell and a single action spell in a turn simply because bonus action spells and cantrips are minor spells which can be chanted very quickly. So if you ask me, I would say no, you can't cast two full blown spells in a single turn. Action surge is not manipulating time, its just a burst of energy.
With that said, I would love to hear from Mike Mearls or Jeremy Crawford on this one to see what their intentions truly were.
This is likely a topic that is going to come up in the campaign I'm about to run. One of my players is going to multi-class a fighter and wizard.
I'd like to point out that no one here has brought up the topic of the intention of a rule when its written. Yes we can pick apart the rules and find instances like this in order to try and utilize them for overpowered characters, but in reality we should be searching for what the designer was intending when the rule was written. Manipulating this rule can get out of hand very quickly at the table top. A 5th level character who is Fighter lvl 2 and Wizard lvl 3 can literally cast Scorching Ray twice potentially doling out 12d6 damage and then use Second Wind as a bonus action on the same turn. Its a bit much.
Although D&D is a world of magic and supernatural things, most of the rules are based in reality. For example, a single round in combat takes place in 6 seconds. Meaning the entirety of your turn and everything you do in it should take place in 6 seconds. With that in mind, the action surge ability, if you ask me, is the ability for a fighter to have a surge of energy allowing the fighter to move slightly faster then normal and granting the fighter an extra action, usually an attack. Its not inconceivable to think a creature could swing a weapon one more time in that time. What is inconceivable to me, is a wizard chanting two entire spells in the span of 6 seconds. This is what I think was intended when the rules were written. They allow a bonus action spell and a single action spell in a turn simply because bonus action spells and cantrips are minor spells which can be chanted very quickly. So if you ask me, I would say no, you can't cast two full blown spells in a single turn. Action surge is not manipulating time, its just a burst of energy.
With that said, I would love to hear from Mike Mearls or Jeremy Crawford on this one to see what their intentions truly were.
On what basis are you arguing that two Scorching Rays is not what's intended, but 8 attacks is?
The basis that moving your body is faster then accurately chanting a phase. So think about a well built person wielding an axe. Have you ever seen those fire fighter competitions? You can bring an axe down on something 8 times in 6 seconds, actually there is a video of a guy doing it in real life. Google “fastest wood chopper” he starts at 5 seconds in and ends his 8th chop at 11 seconds.
On the other hand, the way spellcasting is described in the PHB, it makes it sound like it is a very specific and precise utterance to manipulate the weave. To accurately get two entire phrases off in 6 seconds just doesn’t seem reasonable.
Also let’s consider the fact that you took 8 attacks as your counter point which is something a fighter would not be able to do until very high levels, when here we are talking about how quickly this can get over powered at lower levels.
With that in mind, the action surge ability, if you ask me, is the ability for a fighter to have a surge of energy allowing the fighter to move slightly faster then normal and granting the fighter an extra action, usually an attack. Its not inconceivable to think a creature could swing a weapon one more time in that time. What is inconceivable to me, is a wizard chanting two entire spells in the span of 6 secondsThis line of thinking doesn't make sense to me.
This doesn't really make sense to me. You argue that there isn't enough time in the round for the Wizard to cast two spells, but there is enough time for the Fighter to make two sets of attacks, but those two things take the same amount of time/effort/energy to begin with.
Action Surge isn't a tiny burst of energy that lets you make an extra attack, it's a unique heroic ability that allows the Fighter to essentially act in double time when it's active. While an average person might be able to swing their sword once in a round, a high level fighter using their action surge can do it eight times. Or four times while casting a spell. Or dash and still get off a full set of attacks. Or some combination of the above... and if the designers wanted to limit Action Surge to only enabling certain things, they could have... but didn't and haven't shown any indication in the six and a half years since that that needs to be changed.
Like, if you want to nerf one of your players that's your prerogative as a DM, but there doesn't appear to be any connection to the rules or intent or the narrative or realism here.
I would say read my previous response to the 8 attacks thing. Also action surge isn’t described as acting in double time at all. It literally is described as pushing ones body to the limit. In no way is it implying the fighter is somehow taping into a temporal displacement or something along those lines. No other spell combination, attack, ability or anything of the sort would allow you to achieve a potential of 12d6 damage at level 5 that I’m aware of at least. It just seems a little out of control is all. A level 5 wizard, who in all rights should be a more potent spell caster then the multi-class we are referring to here, can cast a fireball, it’s most potent spell at that level for damage anyway. Dealing potentially only 8d6 damage, albeit to multiple enemies. In any case I can respect your opinion here, but your comment can be spun both ways. If you want to allow a player to be over-powered, that’s your prerogative as a DM as well. Just don’t be surprised when the other players around the table begin to feel like their characters are very underwhelming in the presence of another who’s doing something like this.
If you cast a spell, such as healing word, with a bonus action, you can cast another spell with your action, but that other spell must be a cantrip. Keep in mind that this particular limit is specific to spells that use a bonus action. For instance, if you cast a second spell using Action Surge, you aren’t limited to casting a cantrip with it.
This is what they’re staying:
- if you cast a BA leveled spell, you can’t use your ACTION to cast a leveled spell.
- however, if you cast a leveled spell with your ACTION, then your ACTION SURGE ACTION can be a leveled spell as well
But this rule still exists and is not contradicted by the above:
- If you use a BA to cast a leveled spell (or you are going to later in your turn), you cannot use your ACTION or ACTION SURGE ACTION to cast another leveled spell.
This is likely a topic that is going to come up in the campaign I'm about to run. One of my players is going to multi-class a fighter and wizard.
I'd like to point out that no one here has brought up the topic of the intention of a rule when its written. Yes we can pick apart the rules and find instances like this in order to try and utilize them for overpowered characters, but in reality we should be searching for what the designer was intending when the rule was written. Manipulating this rule can get out of hand very quickly at the table top. A 5th level character who is Fighter lvl 2 and Wizard lvl 3 can literally cast Scorching Ray twice potentially doling out 12d6 damage and then use Second Wind as a bonus action on the same turn. Its a bit much.
Although D&D is a world of magic and supernatural things, most of the rules are based in reality. For example, a single round in combat takes place in 6 seconds. Meaning the entirety of your turn and everything you do in it should take place in 6 seconds. With that in mind, the action surge ability, if you ask me, is the ability for a fighter to have a surge of energy allowing the fighter to move slightly faster then normal and granting the fighter an extra action, usually an attack. Its not inconceivable to think a creature could swing a weapon one more time in that time. What is inconceivable to me, is a wizard chanting two entire spells in the span of 6 seconds. This is what I think was intended when the rules were written. They allow a bonus action spell and a single action spell in a turn simply because bonus action spells and cantrips are minor spells which can be chanted very quickly. So if you ask me, I would say no, you can't cast two full blown spells in a single turn. Action surge is not manipulating time, its just a burst of energy.
With that said, I would love to hear from Mike Mearls or Jeremy Crawford on this one to see what their intentions truly were.
You can absolutely do this. If you want to burn through your two highest power spell slots and use your action surge and second wind in one round, go ahead. It’s resource management, make that choice, but now you have no more level 2 slots for the rest of the day. And no more action surges or second wind unless you short rest. Better hope there’s not a second fight against a stronger monster soon after this one.
And the intent of the author is irrelevant (take it from an English major). The work stands on its own, and it clearly allows it. Moreover, the rules that allow this are more than 10 years old. If it was a mistake, there would have been an errata.
Nowhere does it describe how hard it is to cast a spell. The verbal component could be one word. Easy enough to say two words in 6 seconds.
And doing 12d6 is a stretch. It would require you hitting on six attack rolls, which is very unlikely (especially when you multi classed, so you’ll have stats spread a little thin, and won’t have gotten any asi yet). But even if you do, a fireball will do 8d6, across a 20 foot radius. That’s potentially much more damage (depending how many targets you catch in it), and it’s pretty much guaranteed to do at least some damage. Flame arrow will add a d6 to 20 arrows, which is more than 12. Lightning bolt does 8d6 in a line that will almost certainly hit 2 or more creatures, well exceeding 12d6. Hypnotic pattern can be a win button. And these all do it with just one spell slot. Spells like this (aka level 3 spells) are what the character gave up by taking that fighter dip. It’s not OP at all to let them blow two spells in a round once in a while, that’s the point of the multiclass.
So, what if you use that BA for something other than casting, like targeting with Call Lightning, moving an Ethereal Weapon, or just using a non-spell Bonus Action?
The only special case in the rules is casting a spell as a bonus action. Everything else functions as normal. Using a bonus action a spell gave you isn't the same thing as casting a spell.
So, what if you use that BA for something other than casting, like targeting with Call Lightning, moving an Ethereal Weapon, or just using a non-spell Bonus Action?
What Coder said. Only casting as a bonus action invokes additional restrictions. Other spell related but not casting bonus actions are fine.
If you cast a spell, such as healing word, with a bonus action, you can cast another spell with your action, but that other spell must be a cantrip. Keep in mind that this particular limit is specific to spells that use a bonus action. For instance, if you cast a second spell using Action Surge, you aren’t limited to casting a cantrip with it.
This is what they’re staying:
- if you cast a BA leveled spell, you can’t use your ACTION to cast a leveled spell.
RAW, I think this is saying that if you cast a BA spell ... leveled or cantrip ... then any other spells during that turn must be cantrips. This appears to mean that it doesn't matter if your BA spell is also a cantrip, that still precludes you from casting a leveled spell during your turn using actions or reactions.
Now, the only BA cantrips that I am aware of are Magic Stone and Shillelagh, and those spells seem designed to set you up to use your action to attack with the summoned weapons, so the practical effect of allowing one to then use their action or reaction on a leveled spell seems minimal. This also means that the additional power gained by misinterpreting this rule to allow a Magic Stone or Shillelagh plus a leveled spell with an Action or Reaction is very minimal and should not have a major affect on character balance.
I know that all the tables I've played at have assumed this rule meant that it only limited your other spells on a turn if your BA spell was leveled, but on subsequent readings, this doesn't seem RAW.
If you cast a spell, such as healing word, with a bonus action, you can cast another spell with your action, but that other spell must be a cantrip. Keep in mind that this particular limit is specific to spells that use a bonus action. For instance, if you cast a second spell using Action Surge, you aren’t limited to casting a cantrip with it.
This is what they’re staying:
- if you cast a BA leveled spell, you can’t use your ACTION to cast a leveled spell.
RAW, I think this is saying that if you cast a BA spell ... leveled or cantrip ... then any other spells during that turn must be cantrips. This appears to mean that it doesn't matter if your BA spell is also a cantrip, that still precludes you from casting a leveled spell during your turn using actions or reactions.
Now, the only BA cantrips that I am aware of are Magic Stone and Shillelagh, and those spells seem designed to set you up to use your action to attack with the summoned weapons, so the practical effect of allowing one to then use their action or reaction on a leveled spell seems minimal. This also means that the additional power gained by misinterpreting this rule to allow a Magic Stone or Shillelagh plus a leveled spell with an Action or Reaction is very minimal and should not have a major affect on character balance.
I know that all the tables I've played at have assumed this rule meant that it only limited your other spells on a turn if your BA spell was leveled, but on subsequent readings, this doesn't seem RAW.
You have not considered the Sorcerer Metamagic Quicken Spell which is the reason I feel that the Bonus Action spellcasting rule exists.
The basis that moving your body is faster then accurately chanting a phase. So think about a well built person wielding an axe. Have you ever seen those fire fighter competitions? You can bring an axe down on something 8 times in 6 seconds, actually there is a video of a guy doing it in real life. Google “fastest wood chopper” he starts at 5 seconds in and ends his 8th chop at 11 seconds.
On the other hand, the way spellcasting is described in the PHB, it makes it sound like it is a very specific and precise utterance to manipulate the weave. To accurately get two entire phrases off in 6 seconds just doesn’t seem reasonable.
Also let’s consider the fact that you took 8 attacks as your counter point which is something a fighter would not be able to do until very high levels, when here we are talking about how quickly this can get over powered at lower levels.
Ok, old thread, but I felt like adding a few cents.
Take War Caster, where a spell caster has practiced different ways to do somatic components, such that they can wield weapons and shields at the same time, etc. Spells in D&D are not static, each caster has her own way of channelling a spell, and I imagine, that any time compression to get a spell off in a shorter amount of time takes more time to develop and perfect, but it's possible. Spells that usually have a verbal component can probably be developed to not require a verbal component anymore. Ie. There are many ways to weave the weave.
This brings us to Action Surge. I can definitely imagine spells being able to draw on other components than just verbal, finger-somatic and material component. Who's not to say that the stamina usage during a power surge helps speed up the casting? Or that the whole body can contribute to the somatic component? I don't think we can rule out that spells can be cast when somebody enters an action surge mindset, just like when something critical happens and times slows down for you as you're processing the information faster in a burst of energy.
This brings us to Action Surge. I can definitely imagine spells being able to draw on other components of than just verbal, finger-somatic and component. Who's not to say that the stamina usage during a power surge helps speed up the casting? Or that the whole body can contribute to the somatic component? I don't think we can rule out that spells can be cast when somebody enters an action surge mindset, just like when something critical happens and times slows down for you as you're processing the information faster in a burst of energy.
My only concern with this is coupling this with a Sorcerer, imagine multi-classing sorc and fighter. Cast spell, cast cantrip, action surge, cast spell. OR at higher levels, Attack, Attack, Bonus Action Cast, Action Surge, Cast Spell. That's an insane number of actions for 1 round and starts to feel a bit OP. Not that it wouldn't feel totally bad ass as the player, but it seems a bit much for 1 round.
This brings us to Action Surge. I can definitely imagine spells being able to draw on other components of than just verbal, finger-somatic and component. Who's not to say that the stamina usage during a power surge helps speed up the casting? Or that the whole body can contribute to the somatic component? I don't think we can rule out that spells can be cast when somebody enters an action surge mindset, just like when something critical happens and times slows down for you as you're processing the information faster in a burst of energy.
My only concern with this is coupling this with a Sorcerer, imagine multi-classing sorc and fighter. Cast spell, cast cantrip, action surge, cast spell. OR at higher levels, Attack, Attack, Bonus Action Cast, Action Surge, Cast Spell. That's an insane number of actions for 1 round and starts to feel a bit OP. Not that it wouldn't feel totally bad ass as the player, but it seems a bit much for 1 round.
Your scenario does not actually work. Once you cast a non cantrip you can no longer cast another spell with your Bonus Action. So the best you can do is cast a cantrip, Action Surge cast a cantrip then Quicken Spell a leveled spell with your Bonus Action or cast 2 leveled spells with Action Surge. Or in your higher levels example it would be Attack x2, cast a spell, cast a cantrip.
Another thing is the spell progression delay. At the bare minimum you need 2 levels of Fighter to Action Surge. That puts you 2 levels behind in spell progression versus a full caster. Sure it might be cool to throw 2 Fireballs but that might pale in comparison to a well placed Wall of Fire or a clutch Polymorph on a tough enemy/near dead ally.
This brings us to Action Surge. I can definitely imagine spells being able to draw on other components of than just verbal, finger-somatic and component. Who's not to say that the stamina usage during a power surge helps speed up the casting? Or that the whole body can contribute to the somatic component? I don't think we can rule out that spells can be cast when somebody enters an action surge mindset, just like when something critical happens and times slows down for you as you're processing the information faster in a burst of energy.
My only concern with this is coupling this with a Sorcerer, imagine multi-classing sorc and fighter. Cast spell, cast cantrip, action surge, cast spell. OR at higher levels, Attack, Attack, Bonus Action Cast, Action Surge, Cast Spell. That's an insane number of actions for 1 round and starts to feel a bit OP. Not that it wouldn't feel totally bad ass as the player, but it seems a bit much for 1 round.
I honestly don't think anything is OP compared to a Wizard. I think it would be a good balance that some classes have more burst, just like Paladins have smite compared to more mundane martials. Sorcerers are already seen as lackluster, so if you're able to do a nice multiclass for a cool combo like that, then go ahead. Remember that you're also behind on spell progression.
I honestly don't think anything is OP compared to a Wizard. I think it would be a good balance that some classes have more burst, just like Paladins have smite compared to more mundane martials. Sorcerers are already seen as lackluster, so if you're able to do a nice multiclass for a cool combo like that, then go ahead. Remember that you're also behind on spell progression.
That's actually a really good point. Sorcerers are a bit boned when it comes to progression and utility. They might have metamagic but that isn't free either.
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You can cast as many action spells as you do actions. If you cast a B.A spell, then all action spells must be cantrips.
That's it, one sentence. No need for this arbitrary point system.
if I edit a message, most of the time it's because of grammar. The rest of the time I'll put "Edit:" at the bottom.
This issue was covered on the Sage Advice Compendium. The relevant quote:
If you cast a spell, such as healing word, with a bonus action, you can cast another spell with your action, but that other spell must be a cantrip. Keep in mind that this particular limit is specific to spells that use a bonus action. For instance, if you cast a second spell using Action Surge, you aren’t limited to casting a cantrip with it.
This is likely a topic that is going to come up in the campaign I'm about to run. One of my players is going to multi-class a fighter and wizard.
I'd like to point out that no one here has brought up the topic of the intention of a rule when its written. Yes we can pick apart the rules and find instances like this in order to try and utilize them for overpowered characters, but in reality we should be searching for what the designer was intending when the rule was written. Manipulating this rule can get out of hand very quickly at the table top. A 5th level character who is Fighter lvl 2 and Wizard lvl 3 can literally cast Scorching Ray twice potentially doling out 12d6 damage and then use Second Wind as a bonus action on the same turn. Its a bit much.
Although D&D is a world of magic and supernatural things, most of the rules are based in reality. For example, a single round in combat takes place in 6 seconds. Meaning the entirety of your turn and everything you do in it should take place in 6 seconds. With that in mind, the action surge ability, if you ask me, is the ability for a fighter to have a surge of energy allowing the fighter to move slightly faster then normal and granting the fighter an extra action, usually an attack. Its not inconceivable to think a creature could swing a weapon one more time in that time. What is inconceivable to me, is a wizard chanting two entire spells in the span of 6 seconds. This is what I think was intended when the rules were written. They allow a bonus action spell and a single action spell in a turn simply because bonus action spells and cantrips are minor spells which can be chanted very quickly. So if you ask me, I would say no, you can't cast two full blown spells in a single turn. Action surge is not manipulating time, its just a burst of energy.
With that said, I would love to hear from Mike Mearls or Jeremy Crawford on this one to see what their intentions truly were.
On what basis are you arguing that two Scorching Rays is not what's intended, but 8 attacks is?
The basis that moving your body is faster then accurately chanting a phase. So think about a well built person wielding an axe. Have you ever seen those fire fighter competitions? You can bring an axe down on something 8 times in 6 seconds, actually there is a video of a guy doing it in real life. Google “fastest wood chopper” he starts at 5 seconds in and ends his 8th chop at 11 seconds.
On the other hand, the way spellcasting is described in the PHB, it makes it sound like it is a very specific and precise utterance to manipulate the weave. To accurately get two entire phrases off in 6 seconds just doesn’t seem reasonable.
Also let’s consider the fact that you took 8 attacks as your counter point which is something a fighter would not be able to do until very high levels, when here we are talking about how quickly this can get over powered at lower levels.
This doesn't really make sense to me. You argue that there isn't enough time in the round for the Wizard to cast two spells, but there is enough time for the Fighter to make two sets of attacks, but those two things take the same amount of time/effort/energy to begin with.
Action Surge isn't a tiny burst of energy that lets you make an extra attack, it's a unique heroic ability that allows the Fighter to essentially act in double time when it's active. While an average person might be able to swing their sword once in a round, a high level fighter using their action surge can do it eight times. Or four times while casting a spell. Or dash and still get off a full set of attacks. Or some combination of the above... and if the designers wanted to limit Action Surge to only enabling certain things, they could have... but didn't and haven't shown any indication in the six and a half years since that that needs to be changed.
Like, if you want to nerf one of your players that's your prerogative as a DM, but there doesn't appear to be any connection to the rules or intent or the narrative or realism here.
I would say read my previous response to the 8 attacks thing. Also action surge isn’t described as acting in double time at all. It literally is described as pushing ones body to the limit. In no way is it implying the fighter is somehow taping into a temporal displacement or something along those lines.
No other spell combination, attack, ability or anything of the sort would allow you to achieve a potential of 12d6 damage at level 5 that I’m aware of at least. It just seems a little out of control is all. A level 5 wizard, who in all rights should be a more potent spell caster then the multi-class we are referring to here, can cast a fireball, it’s most potent spell at that level for damage anyway. Dealing potentially only 8d6 damage, albeit to multiple enemies.
In any case I can respect your opinion here, but your comment can be spun both ways. If you want to allow a player to be over-powered, that’s your prerogative as a DM as well. Just don’t be surprised when the other players around the table begin to feel like their characters are very underwhelming in the presence of another who’s doing something like this.
This is what they’re staying:
- if you cast a BA leveled spell, you can’t use your ACTION to cast a leveled spell.
- however, if you cast a leveled spell with your ACTION, then your ACTION SURGE ACTION can be a leveled spell as well
But this rule still exists and is not contradicted by the above:
- If you use a BA to cast a leveled spell (or you are going to later in your turn), you cannot use your ACTION or ACTION SURGE ACTION to cast another leveled spell.
You can absolutely do this. If you want to burn through your two highest power spell slots and use your action surge and second wind in one round, go ahead. It’s resource management, make that choice, but now you have no more level 2 slots for the rest of the day. And no more action surges or second wind unless you short rest. Better hope there’s not a second fight against a stronger monster soon after this one.
And the intent of the author is irrelevant (take it from an English major). The work stands on its own, and it clearly allows it. Moreover, the rules that allow this are more than 10 years old. If it was a mistake, there would have been an errata.
Nowhere does it describe how hard it is to cast a spell. The verbal component could be one word. Easy enough to say two words in 6 seconds.
And doing 12d6 is a stretch. It would require you hitting on six attack rolls, which is very unlikely (especially when you multi classed, so you’ll have stats spread a little thin, and won’t have gotten any asi yet). But even if you do, a fireball will do 8d6, across a 20 foot radius. That’s potentially much more damage (depending how many targets you catch in it), and it’s pretty much guaranteed to do at least some damage. Flame arrow will add a d6 to 20 arrows, which is more than 12. Lightning bolt does 8d6 in a line that will almost certainly hit 2 or more creatures, well exceeding 12d6. Hypnotic pattern can be a win button. And these all do it with just one spell slot.
Spells like this (aka level 3 spells) are what the character gave up by taking that fighter dip. It’s not OP at all to let them blow two spells in a round once in a while, that’s the point of the multiclass.
So, what if you use that BA for something other than casting, like targeting with Call Lightning, moving an Ethereal Weapon, or just using a non-spell Bonus Action?
The only special case in the rules is casting a spell as a bonus action. Everything else functions as normal. Using a bonus action a spell gave you isn't the same thing as casting a spell.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
What Coder said. Only casting as a bonus action invokes additional restrictions. Other spell related but not casting bonus actions are fine.
RAW, I think this is saying that if you cast a BA spell ... leveled or cantrip ... then any other spells during that turn must be cantrips. This appears to mean that it doesn't matter if your BA spell is also a cantrip, that still precludes you from casting a leveled spell during your turn using actions or reactions.
Now, the only BA cantrips that I am aware of are Magic Stone and Shillelagh, and those spells seem designed to set you up to use your action to attack with the summoned weapons, so the practical effect of allowing one to then use their action or reaction on a leveled spell seems minimal. This also means that the additional power gained by misinterpreting this rule to allow a Magic Stone or Shillelagh plus a leveled spell with an Action or Reaction is very minimal and should not have a major affect on character balance.
I know that all the tables I've played at have assumed this rule meant that it only limited your other spells on a turn if your BA spell was leveled, but on subsequent readings, this doesn't seem RAW.
You have not considered the Sorcerer Metamagic Quicken Spell which is the reason I feel that the Bonus Action spellcasting rule exists.
Nope it’s RAW. A fighter/sorcerer could cast cantrip, action surge, cast cantrip, then quicken a spell.
Ok, old thread, but I felt like adding a few cents.
Take War Caster, where a spell caster has practiced different ways to do somatic components, such that they can wield weapons and shields at the same time, etc. Spells in D&D are not static, each caster has her own way of channelling a spell, and I imagine, that any time compression to get a spell off in a shorter amount of time takes more time to develop and perfect, but it's possible. Spells that usually have a verbal component can probably be developed to not require a verbal component anymore. Ie. There are many ways to weave the weave.
This brings us to Action Surge. I can definitely imagine spells being able to draw on other components than just verbal, finger-somatic and material component. Who's not to say that the stamina usage during a power surge helps speed up the casting? Or that the whole body can contribute to the somatic component? I don't think we can rule out that spells can be cast when somebody enters an action surge mindset, just like when something critical happens and times slows down for you as you're processing the information faster in a burst of energy.
Altrazin Aghanes - Wizard/Fighter
Varpulis Windhowl - Fighter
Skolson Demjon - Cleric/Fighter
My only concern with this is coupling this with a Sorcerer, imagine multi-classing sorc and fighter. Cast spell, cast cantrip, action surge, cast spell. OR at higher levels, Attack, Attack, Bonus Action Cast, Action Surge, Cast Spell. That's an insane number of actions for 1 round and starts to feel a bit OP. Not that it wouldn't feel totally bad ass as the player, but it seems a bit much for 1 round.
Your scenario does not actually work. Once you cast a non cantrip you can no longer cast another spell with your Bonus Action. So the best you can do is cast a cantrip, Action Surge cast a cantrip then Quicken Spell a leveled spell with your Bonus Action or cast 2 leveled spells with Action Surge. Or in your higher levels example it would be Attack x2, cast a spell, cast a cantrip.
Another thing is the spell progression delay. At the bare minimum you need 2 levels of Fighter to Action Surge. That puts you 2 levels behind in spell progression versus a full caster. Sure it might be cool to throw 2 Fireballs but that might pale in comparison to a well placed Wall of Fire or a clutch Polymorph on a tough enemy/near dead ally.
I honestly don't think anything is OP compared to a Wizard. I think it would be a good balance that some classes have more burst, just like Paladins have smite compared to more mundane martials. Sorcerers are already seen as lackluster, so if you're able to do a nice multiclass for a cool combo like that, then go ahead. Remember that you're also behind on spell progression.
Altrazin Aghanes - Wizard/Fighter
Varpulis Windhowl - Fighter
Skolson Demjon - Cleric/Fighter
That's actually a really good point. Sorcerers are a bit boned when it comes to progression and utility. They might have metamagic but that isn't free either.