"This echo is a magical, translucent, gray image of you" I would presume it is not static, I think it would continue to look like you holding a bow and arrow. (you being the Echo Knight)
But it is also an object, which typically don't move (unless you affect them, like attacking through them).
This is why mine are frozen images when they are created or after an attack.
That's an interesting interpretation. I imagined the Echo moving in a similar fashion as the Knight. Considering the Echo can move up to 30' at the will of the Knight (no action, bonus action, etc) I figured life-like motion would be a subset of that movement.
That's an interesting interpretation. I imagined the Echo moving in a similar fashion as the Knight. Considering the Echo can move up to 30' at the will of the Knight (no action, bonus action, etc) I figured life-like motion would be a subset of that movement.
Ha, then explain the flying (sorry vertical gravity defying moving upwards). But yes, all open to interpretation and a mess of rules!
It does have mass though, as it's able to interact with other things (such as attacking enemies).
except it doesn't attack enemies. It makes no motion other than movement on its own. Anything else is done *by you*, not the echo. It has no interactions other than "I can move," and "My summoner can attack from my position because I am a portal through which attacks may come out of made by my summoner."
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Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
FWIW, the Echo "occupies its space", so that implies a passive sort of interaction with others. Not sure if it is then immovable, or if it can be moved. Would a charging opponent move through it when it tried to shove it back? I would think it couldn't be knocked prone, though I guess if it uses the Knight's saves, would it use the Knight's skill checks (I'm thinking not)? (obviously, for a being that knows about Echoes, a little jab, and poof! But, if they don't know that, they may try all sorts of things.)
One of my issues, is as it's an object it can't stealth, but it flies/hovers/barely exists so you'd assume makes no noise (and as a grey image, nearly invisible in dim light?) But with no stealth, should be immediately noticeable?
As for throwing? I guess why not, but any impact does min 1 damage = to pop it.
Other ideas have been using it as a flying carpet! Climb on, don't pop it and ride the echo man! Free (slow) flying!
It does have mass though, as it's able to interact with other things (such as attacking enemies).
No, it has substance but otherwise it just floats there, which implies that it doesn't weigh anything. This would mean it's also easy to carry or throw, either of which would get you past the potential opportunity attack from running past it. Although, thinking about it, if it has no mass it's going to be hard to throw as a balloon.
FWIW, the Echo "occupies its space", so that implies a passive sort of interaction with others. Not sure if it is then immovable, or if it can be moved. Would a charging opponent move through it when it tried to shove it back? I would think it couldn't be knocked prone, though I guess if it uses the Knight's saves, would it use the Knight's skill checks (I'm thinking not)? (obviously, for a being that knows about Echoes, a little jab, and poof! But, if they don't know that, they may try all sorts of things.)
It can't be shoved prone as it's immune to the prone condition. It's an object so it can't shove back any more than a table could
Other ideas have been using it as a flying carpet! Climb on, don't pop it and ride the echo man! Free (slow) flying!
I wonder if this is how we end up with 5e Spelljammer. All the sky ships just have a couple of low level echo knights with their echos strapped down in the hold somewhere.
I have a question for Q14. If the echo is able to grapple at reach due to something like Path of the Beast tail attack or bug bear then since the echo cant be shoved plus the echo could be up to 10ft away and its movement is 0 the only way for it to get out is to use its action to try to remove grapple correct?
I have a question for Q14. If the echo is able to grapple at reach due to something like Path of the Beast tail attack or bug bear then since the echo cant be shoved plus the echo could be up to 10ft away and its movement is 0 the only way for it to get out is to use its action to try to remove grapple correct?
Except the echo isn't able to grapple at reach. The echo doesn't do anything. It doesn't attack. It doesn't have actions.
After you make the attack originating from the echo's space and grapple at reach, you are no longer in the echo's space so the grapple breaks immediately, unless you are also within 10 feet of the grappled target to maintain the grapple using the tail. (assuming the grapple at reach is actually true, I haven't read the tail ability of Beast Barb)
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Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
To use Shadow Martyr does an echo have to already be manifested/on the board?
I would say yes. It says teleport echo, not manifest. Especially as manifest is a bonus action.
So you'd need an echo out to use this.
Martyr is a reaction during another character's turn, and bringing an echo out is a bonus action so yes, you'd have to have it out because you could not manifest it when it's not your turn.
does the echo have weight?i had a purple worm situation where he used it to tap dance to distract him and switch places with the pc.
That's already beyond the rules and in DM territory. You can't make the echo 'tap dance', or do anything else that is not explicitly listed in its features (make attacks through it, move it 30 feet in one direction, etc). If you are allowing the PC to have fine-tuned manipulation of the echo, then you need to establish rules for yourself on far they can go. Just aim for a personal consistency.
Given that the echo can "fly" and hover in the air due to the wording of its movement, then it would be consistent to claim it is weightless and would not be detected by tremor sense, or set off pressure plates. I would treat it like a clump of magical force that takes on the image of the PC - not a clone that replicates all of the properties of the PC.
But it is also an object, which typically don't move (unless you affect them, like attacking through them).
This is why mine are frozen images when they are created or after an attack.
That's an interesting interpretation. I imagined the Echo moving in a similar fashion as the Knight. Considering the Echo can move up to 30' at the will of the Knight (no action, bonus action, etc) I figured life-like motion would be a subset of that movement.
Ha, then explain the flying (sorry vertical gravity defying moving upwards). But yes, all open to interpretation and a mess of rules!
I also allowed leapfrogging with the echo ;)
Skimming through the thread something occurs to me.
It does have mass though, as it's able to interact with other things (such as attacking enemies).
except it doesn't attack enemies. It makes no motion other than movement on its own. Anything else is done *by you*, not the echo. It has no interactions other than "I can move," and "My summoner can attack from my position because I am a portal through which attacks may come out of made by my summoner."
Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
FWIW, the Echo "occupies its space", so that implies a passive sort of interaction with others. Not sure if it is then immovable, or if it can be moved. Would a charging opponent move through it when it tried to shove it back? I would think it couldn't be knocked prone, though I guess if it uses the Knight's saves, would it use the Knight's skill checks (I'm thinking not)? (obviously, for a being that knows about Echoes, a little jab, and poof! But, if they don't know that, they may try all sorts of things.)
One of my issues, is as it's an object it can't stealth, but it flies/hovers/barely exists so you'd assume makes no noise (and as a grey image, nearly invisible in dim light?) But with no stealth, should be immediately noticeable?
As for throwing? I guess why not, but any impact does min 1 damage = to pop it.
Other ideas have been using it as a flying carpet! Climb on, don't pop it and ride the echo man! Free (slow) flying!
No, it has substance but otherwise it just floats there, which implies that it doesn't weigh anything. This would mean it's also easy to carry or throw, either of which would get you past the potential opportunity attack from running past it. Although, thinking about it, if it has no mass it's going to be hard to throw as a balloon.
It can't be shoved prone as it's immune to the prone condition. It's an object so it can't shove back any more than a table could
I wonder if this is how we end up with 5e Spelljammer. All the sky ships just have a couple of low level echo knights with their echos strapped down in the hold somewhere.
I've also added some thoughts on fixing it to the Request for echo knight house rules thread, if anyone's interested.
I have a question for Q14. If the echo is able to grapple at reach due to something like Path of the Beast tail attack or bug bear then since the echo cant be shoved plus the echo could be up to 10ft away and its movement is 0 the only way for it to get out is to use its action to try to remove grapple correct?
Except the echo isn't able to grapple at reach. The echo doesn't do anything. It doesn't attack. It doesn't have actions.
After you make the attack originating from the echo's space and grapple at reach, you are no longer in the echo's space so the grapple breaks immediately, unless you are also within 10 feet of the grappled target to maintain the grapple using the tail. (assuming the grapple at reach is actually true, I haven't read the tail ability of Beast Barb)
Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
To use Shadow Martyr does an echo have to already be manifested/on the board?
I would say yes. It says teleport echo, not manifest. Especially as manifest is a bonus action.
So you'd need an echo out to use this.
Martyr is a reaction during another character's turn, and bringing an echo out is a bonus action so yes, you'd have to have it out because you could not manifest it when it's not your turn.
does the echo have weight?i had a purple worm situation where he used it to tap dance to distract him and switch places with the pc.
That's already beyond the rules and in DM territory. You can't make the echo 'tap dance', or do anything else that is not explicitly listed in its features (make attacks through it, move it 30 feet in one direction, etc). If you are allowing the PC to have fine-tuned manipulation of the echo, then you need to establish rules for yourself on far they can go. Just aim for a personal consistency.
Given that the echo can "fly" and hover in the air due to the wording of its movement, then it would be consistent to claim it is weightless and would not be detected by tremor sense, or set off pressure plates. I would treat it like a clump of magical force that takes on the image of the PC - not a clone that replicates all of the properties of the PC.
In a similar situation, my echo knight just attacked the floor with the butt of his glaive. Distraction made with the attack action.
Creative and consistent with the rules. My favorite combination.
if the echo knight is grappled, can he swap with his echo to escape?
No, as being grappled reduces your speed to zero, and the teleport requires you to expend movement.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms