So how do Eldritch Knights learn their spells. They don't have a spellbook and the spells they have don't need to be memorised but how do they get them in the first place? They're not Sorcs who have an innate connection to magic, nor are they Warlocks who get their magic from a pact with a higher or lower being. They're not religious casters who get it from the divine so that's also out. In their description is stated: The archetypal Eldritch Knight combines the martial mastery common to all fighters with a careful study of magic. Eldritch Knights use magical techniques similar to those practiced by wizards. They focus their study on two of the eight schools of magic: abjuration and evocation. Abjuration spells grant an Eldritch Knight additional protection in battle, and evocation spells deal damage to many foes at once, extending the fighter’s reach in combat. These knights learn a comparatively small number of spells, committing them to memory instead of keeping them in a spellbook.
This only vaguely hints that they study the arcane like a Wizard. But don't need a spellbook to keep their spells in.
Right, so Wizards don't need a spellbook either to keep their spells "in" per-say. They need their spellbooks to prepare different spells than the ones they already have. That is what separates EKs from standard Wizards. When they level up, they might gain enough knowledge or have seen enough things to learn that spell, similar to how when a Wizard levels up, they learn 2 new spells to put in their spell book. The flipside is EKs are never without their spells, due to the vast limitations on what they can know. This is similar in the sense to Wizards if their spellbook gets destroyed. They just can't prepare different spells until they get a new book with different spells, but they continue to cast the ones from memory.
From a background standpoint, I'd probably make an EK who was a retainer to a Wizard, had a family versed in magic, or was around enough magic where it makes sense that they pick it up.
Right, so Wizards don't need a spellbook either to keep their spells "in" per-say. They need their spellbooks to prepare different spells than the ones they already have. That is what separates EKs from standard Wizards. When they level up, they might gain enough knowledge or have seen enough things to learn that spell, similar to how when a Wizard levels up, they learn 2 new spells to put in their spell book. The flipside is EKs are never without their spells, due to the vast limitations on what they can know. This is similar in the sense to Wizards if their spellbook gets destroyed. They just can't prepare different spells until they get a new book with different spells, but they continue to cast the ones from memory.
From a background standpoint, I'd probably make an EK who was a retainer to a Wizard, had a family versed in magic, or was around enough magic where it makes sense that they pick it up.
Okay but what keeps an EK from having a spellbook with other spells on hand?
Right, so Wizards don't need a spellbook either to keep their spells "in" per-say. They need their spellbooks to prepare different spells than the ones they already have. That is what separates EKs from standard Wizards. When they level up, they might gain enough knowledge or have seen enough things to learn that spell, similar to how when a Wizard levels up, they learn 2 new spells to put in their spell book. The flipside is EKs are never without their spells, due to the vast limitations on what they can know. This is similar in the sense to Wizards if their spellbook gets destroyed. They just can't prepare different spells until they get a new book with different spells, but they continue to cast the ones from memory.
From a background standpoint, I'd probably make an EK who was a retainer to a Wizard, had a family versed in magic, or was around enough magic where it makes sense that they pick it up.
Okay but what keeps an EK from having a spellbook with other spells on hand?
Nothing really, but if they would try that it would mean they are focusing more on the wizard side than on the fighter. So you'd be taking levels in wizard.
It's not always possible to get game mechanics to reflect 100% of the possibilites but I think that is the main thing: EKs don't fully focus on the Arcane so they don't use a spellbook, instead they lern a few spells by memory instead of writing everything down.
I understand the need to balance it a bit but it's against the internal logic of the game. It's a half mage who absorbs arcane energies by observing other mages but can't read a spellbook.
From a meta perspective I always just communicate with my players to keep up with how they want their characters to develop as the story continues. If the EK wants to get for example the Shield spell, I make sure that at some point they find a spell book or scroll with it somewhere in the loot they acquire during their adventuring. This gives a believable in game reason for them to learn it when they level up.
Yeah that's a nice way to solve the way how they can get access to a spell. It does open other problems, namely if they can learn a spell from a scroll what keeps them from copying a spell to a spellbook or a scroll with the calligraphy feat and in that way have access to a spellbook and more spells.
That part is simple, they can't use spell books. It doesn't matter how many spell books they have in their backpack, they are no more able to use one than a cleric can cast a wizard spell. They cast spells that they have learnt by wrote, but the magic and to spell formula's are such that they can only memorize a set number. As far as scrolls go, any character that has a spell on their class spell list can use a scroll of that spell, however copying it into a spell book or memorizing it will magically use up the scroll so the writing vanishes. Copying or writing a new scroll requires proficiency in Arcana though not calligraphy.
So how do Eldritch Knights learn their spells. They don't have a spellbook and the spells they have don't need to be memorised but how do they get them in the first place? They're not Sorcs who have an innate connection to magic, nor are they Warlocks who get their magic from a pact with a higher or lower being.
I would allow any of these descriptions for an EK if my players wanted them. This is all RP stuff and should be as open as possible.
If your player tries to use that fluff to get an advantage they shouldn't, that's not a problem that can be fixed with some lines of flavor text. They should be working with - not against - the DM to make their concept fit in the game world.
Yeah that's a nice way to solve the way how they can get access to a spell. It does open other problems, namely if they can learn a spell from a scroll what keeps them from copying a spell to a spellbook or a scroll with the calligraphy feat and in that way have access to a spellbook and more spells.
There's no in-game anything that would stop EKs from how they learn the spells from their list, but the instance of how is only on level up. That being said, they can absolutely read a wizard spell book(up to 4th level spells, anyway), but anything beyond that is out of their realm of understanding.
I think you're looking for a reason to be able to swap out spells as an EK, which you can do at every level. These are DM based questions. Anything on this is flavor based except for the want to be able to swap spells on a rest, which at this point with class feature variants every major class BUT wizard gets, I don't think it'd be as overpowered as some would.
This is one of those things that comes down partly to "that's just how it works", i.e- in mechanical terms.
What I would say though is that when it comes to wizards it's not actually the spellbook that's important; what makes a wizard a wizard isn't the book, it's the ability to take spells and quickly (re-)learn them. Having a spell in their book and not prepared doesn't necessarily mean that they don't know it as such, but they need the book to refresh their knowledge of the spell so they're ready to use it again.
It's not that an Eldritch Knight couldn't study a whole new set of spells, but it would take far longer than for a wizard to do it, as they'd be fundamentally re-training themselves, and you'd have to discuss with your DM how long that might take. It's also worth keeping in mind that learning spells isn't all an Eldritch Knight is choosing to do; they're also strong martial fighters, whereas a Wizard is only a spellcaster, spells are their speciality.
If you want to mix and match with a Wizard more, multi-class as both a Fighter and a Wizard; you won't be as good a martial fighter as an Eldritch Knight can be, but you will gain the flexibility and other bonuses of the Wizard on the casting side.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
For me, I played it off as my EK was an aspiring warrior, when a wizard(another PC) began to teach him the ways of the arcane, and he became more attuned to magic until he was finally able to cast it.
Right, so Wizards don't need a spellbook either to keep their spells "in" per-say. They need their spellbooks to prepare different spells than the ones they already have. That is what separates EKs from standard Wizards. When they level up, they might gain enough knowledge or have seen enough things to learn that spell, similar to how when a Wizard levels up, they learn 2 new spells to put in their spell book. The flipside is EKs are never without their spells, due to the vast limitations on what they can know. This is similar in the sense to Wizards if their spellbook gets destroyed. They just can't prepare different spells until they get a new book with different spells, but they continue to cast the ones from memory.
From a background standpoint, I'd probably make an EK who was a retainer to a Wizard, had a family versed in magic, or was around enough magic where it makes sense that they pick it up.
Okay but what keeps an EK from having a spellbook with other spells on hand?
Great Question. This also perplexed me....kind of like bards and bardic college....how can they not read magic or have a spell casting abilities without formal mage training. In my mind, there either had to be two avenues....they didn't make it as a mage in Magi school and learned just enough to combine the skills with fighters. Or they didn't want to sell their sole to Patron like a Warlock...maybe they were fighters who were above average INT types who could apprentice with a Mage. My EK is going to take Ritual Caster feat Wizard, and think this should be apart of most EK's unless they have some special racial affinity. I could also imagine a EK knightly order.....I wanted to go straight EK but think I'm going to go 4 lvls in Artificer as my char comes from a Blacksmith Background in BG and already was a worshipper of Gond. Artificer EK I think makes for a powerful pairing.
So how do Eldritch Knights learn their spells. They don't have a spellbook and the spells they have don't need to be memorised but how do they get them in the first place? They're not Sorcs who have an innate connection to magic, nor are they Warlocks who get their magic from a pact with a higher or lower being. They're not religious casters who get it from the divine so that's also out. In their description is stated: The archetypal Eldritch Knight combines the martial mastery common to all fighters with a careful study of magic. Eldritch Knights use magical techniques similar to those practiced by wizards. They focus their study on two of the eight schools of magic: abjuration and evocation. Abjuration spells grant an Eldritch Knight additional protection in battle, and evocation spells deal damage to many foes at once, extending the fighter’s reach in combat. These knights learn a comparatively small number of spells, committing them to memory instead of keeping them in a spellbook.
This only vaguely hints that they study the arcane like a Wizard. But don't need a spellbook to keep their spells in.
Right, so Wizards don't need a spellbook either to keep their spells "in" per-say. They need their spellbooks to prepare different spells than the ones they already have. That is what separates EKs from standard Wizards. When they level up, they might gain enough knowledge or have seen enough things to learn that spell, similar to how when a Wizard levels up, they learn 2 new spells to put in their spell book. The flipside is EKs are never without their spells, due to the vast limitations on what they can know. This is similar in the sense to Wizards if their spellbook gets destroyed. They just can't prepare different spells until they get a new book with different spells, but they continue to cast the ones from memory.
From a background standpoint, I'd probably make an EK who was a retainer to a Wizard, had a family versed in magic, or was around enough magic where it makes sense that they pick it up.
Okay but what keeps an EK from having a spellbook with other spells on hand?
Nothing really, but if they would try that it would mean they are focusing more on the wizard side than on the fighter. So you'd be taking levels in wizard.
It's not always possible to get game mechanics to reflect 100% of the possibilites but I think that is the main thing: EKs don't fully focus on the Arcane so they don't use a spellbook, instead they lern a few spells by memory instead of writing everything down.
I understand the need to balance it a bit but it's against the internal logic of the game. It's a half mage who absorbs arcane energies by observing other mages but can't read a spellbook.
From a meta perspective I always just communicate with my players to keep up with how they want their characters to develop as the story continues. If the EK wants to get for example the Shield spell, I make sure that at some point they find a spell book or scroll with it somewhere in the loot they acquire during their adventuring. This gives a believable in game reason for them to learn it when they level up.
Yeah that's a nice way to solve the way how they can get access to a spell. It does open other problems, namely if they can learn a spell from a scroll what keeps them from copying a spell to a spellbook or a scroll with the calligraphy feat and in that way have access to a spellbook and more spells.
That part is simple, they can't use spell books. It doesn't matter how many spell books they have in their backpack, they are no more able to use one than a cleric can cast a wizard spell. They cast spells that they have learnt by wrote, but the magic and to spell formula's are such that they can only memorize a set number. As far as scrolls go, any character that has a spell on their class spell list can use a scroll of that spell, however copying it into a spell book or memorizing it will magically use up the scroll so the writing vanishes. Copying or writing a new scroll requires proficiency in Arcana though not calligraphy.
I would allow any of these descriptions for an EK if my players wanted them. This is all RP stuff and should be as open as possible.
If your player tries to use that fluff to get an advantage they shouldn't, that's not a problem that can be fixed with some lines of flavor text. They should be working with - not against - the DM to make their concept fit in the game world.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
There's no in-game anything that would stop EKs from how they learn the spells from their list, but the instance of how is only on level up. That being said, they can absolutely read a wizard spell book(up to 4th level spells, anyway), but anything beyond that is out of their realm of understanding.
I think you're looking for a reason to be able to swap out spells as an EK, which you can do at every level. These are DM based questions. Anything on this is flavor based except for the want to be able to swap spells on a rest, which at this point with class feature variants every major class BUT wizard gets, I don't think it'd be as overpowered as some would.
This is one of those things that comes down partly to "that's just how it works", i.e- in mechanical terms.
What I would say though is that when it comes to wizards it's not actually the spellbook that's important; what makes a wizard a wizard isn't the book, it's the ability to take spells and quickly (re-)learn them. Having a spell in their book and not prepared doesn't necessarily mean that they don't know it as such, but they need the book to refresh their knowledge of the spell so they're ready to use it again.
It's not that an Eldritch Knight couldn't study a whole new set of spells, but it would take far longer than for a wizard to do it, as they'd be fundamentally re-training themselves, and you'd have to discuss with your DM how long that might take. It's also worth keeping in mind that learning spells isn't all an Eldritch Knight is choosing to do; they're also strong martial fighters, whereas a Wizard is only a spellcaster, spells are their speciality.
If you want to mix and match with a Wizard more, multi-class as both a Fighter and a Wizard; you won't be as good a martial fighter as an Eldritch Knight can be, but you will gain the flexibility and other bonuses of the Wizard on the casting side.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
For me, I played it off as my EK was an aspiring warrior, when a wizard(another PC) began to teach him the ways of the arcane, and he became more attuned to magic until he was finally able to cast it.
Great Question. This also perplexed me....kind of like bards and bardic college....how can they not read magic or have a spell casting abilities without formal mage training. In my mind, there either had to be two avenues....they didn't make it as a mage in Magi school and learned just enough to combine the skills with fighters. Or they didn't want to sell their sole to Patron like a Warlock...maybe they were fighters who were above average INT types who could apprentice with a Mage. My EK is going to take Ritual Caster feat Wizard, and think this should be apart of most EK's unless they have some special racial affinity. I could also imagine a EK knightly order.....I wanted to go straight EK but think I'm going to go 4 lvls in Artificer as my char comes from a Blacksmith Background in BG and already was a worshipper of Gond. Artificer EK I think makes for a powerful pairing.
Yeah a Knightly order serving a God/dess of Magic would be a good fit. More than a Paladin serving one.