The problem with the monk is that it is too detached from the game compared to other classes. Not dependent on items and its features are too defensive, as if to compensate for its d8 hit points and its offensive capabilities are minimal. The game in base should be played with few magic items, but who likes to play without magic items? If these exist why not use them? Another mistake is neglecting hand-to-hand combat in the rules of the game. Feats are another big problem.
I don't think that unarmed combat should be divided from armed combat. The game should be simple and the items should be there for everyone. The monk should depend on items for unarmed combat (e.g., bandages) for martial arts and like any class depend on magic items.
The monk should have personal characteristics that distinguish him from other classes.
Unarmed Combat / Unarmored ?
Martial Arts
Extraordinary techniques fueled by its ki points
Extraordinary volocity and movement
Details:
Unarmed combat, and martial arts should be more developed. Somewhat like "battle master" techniques but more towards unarmed combat. The difference of the monk and the fighter is that the fighter is an expert in weapons while the monk is an expert in unarmed techniques. Actually when I heard about the "battle master" I got a little angry.
Martial arts is a variation of the Two-Weapon Fighting feature of the fighter and should not be limited (armor, monk weapons). Monk weapons should not exist. If I were to rewrite the Martial Arts feature I would do it this way:
Martial Arts At 1st level, your practice of martial arts gives you mastery of combat styles that use unarmed strikes. You gain the following benefits when you aren't wearing heavy armor or wielding a shield:
When unarmored, you can use Dexterity instead of Strength for the attack and damage rolls of your unarmed and weapons attacks that lack the heavy propertie.
You may attempt to grab a creature instead of one of your attacks if the target is not one size larger than you.
Once per turn, when you hit a creature with an unarmed strike or a weapon, you can move it 5 feet to an unoccupied space. You cannot push opponents two sizes larger than you, but you can use the rebound to move 5 feet away without provoking attacks of opportunity.
You can roll a d4 in place of the normal damage of your unarmed or your weapon attacks. This die changes as you gain monk levels, as shown in the Martial Arts column of the Monk table.
On your turn, when you use the Action to Attack, or you use a monk feature that use ki point, you can make one unarmed strike as a bonus action. For example, if you take the Attack action and attack with a quarterstaff, or you cast a spell or a feature that use Ki points, you can also make an unarmed strike as a bonus action, assuming you haven't already taken a bonus action this turn.
From my point of view, the only features that should require ki points are martial arts techniques, somewhat like "battle master" maneuvers. These should be supported by another feature that decreases their consumption stress in ki points via features so that the monk, even without ki points remains capable of using some of them (kind of like the cantrips of the magic classes). If I were to create a feature of martial arts techniques I would do it this way:
Ki Techniques Starting at 2nd level, when you obtain this feature, you learn four Ki Techniques, which you can choose from the Monk Ki Techniques list. As you increase in level, you learn more techniques, as indicated in the Techniques Known column of the monk table. Additionally, when you gain a Monk level, you can exchange any known Ki Technique for another for which you meet the level prerequisites. You cannot repeat the same technique on the same creature in the same turn, each technique consumes 1 ki point, and whenever you hit a creature with a Ki Technique, the creature takes one extra Martial Arts die of damage. Some of the Ki Techniques require your target to make a saving throw to resist the feature's effects. The saving throw DC is calculated as follows:
Harmony At the 13th level, the harmony achieved between body and mind allows your Ki Techniques to be performed more naturally and in balance. Choose two Ki Techniques between the 2nd and 5th levels that you already know. Once per round, you can perform one of these Ki Techniques without spending ki points. At 18th level, instead of 2 Ki Techniques, you can now choose 4 Ki Techniques between 2nd and 12th levels that you already know. Once per round, you can perform two chosen Ki Techniques in this feature without spending ki points. By spending 8 hours in training and meditation, it is possible to exchange all the chosen Ki Techniques in this feature for other techniques.
The monk should have speed and movement in combat (but with mobile or crusher built in), then not have a need to use the "Step in the wind" feature and instead have Dudge, Dash and Disengage as free bonus actions (kind of like the rogue, but replacing hide with dodge). If I were to rewrite the Unarmored Movement feature I would do it this way:
Unarmored Movement Starting at 2nd level, your speed increases by 10 feet while you are not wearing armor or wielding a shield. This bonus increases when you reach certain monk levels, as shown in the Monk table. Additionally, you can take the Dash, Disengage, or Dodge actionas as a bonus action on your turn. When you use one of this actions your jump distance is doubled. At 4th level, you can use your reaction when you fall to reduce any falling damage you take by an amount equal to five times your monk level. At 9th level, you gain the ability to move along vertical surfaces and across liquids on your turn without falling during the move.
When people calculate the possible damage capacity of the monk they should not calculate the damage in the bonus action, the bonus action is accessible to other classes and therefore developable by other classes as well, while the monk cannot since it is already part of the calculation. Another reason is that the bonus action is meant to be used as an expendable action for special actions and therefore unreliable. Thus, calculating the bonus action as class damage is a trap. If one were to compare the class of the fighter with that of the monk one would have to give the fighter the feat "Crossbow expert" to be comparable with the available actions.
Another problem is the "Flurry of blow" attack. Its problem is that it is the reason why there are no powerful items for unarmed attacks. This is because it would be too many attacks for a low-level player. Just imagine a monk with bandanas allowing the power of Flame Tongue. Flurry of blow should be at 11th level and should not require ki points. To be really efficient, however, among the ki techniques there should be one that allows the monk to take a bonus action (of not attacking) and still make this attack unarmed.
Body Cultivation At 11th level, mastery of the ki flowing through you makes you proficient in Constitution saving throws and immune to diseases and poisons. Additionally, your Martial Arts improved to the point that you can now make two unarmed strikes in your bonus action.
Quick Strike. When you perform a bonus action that is not an attack or a spell, you can make an unarmed attack. (Ki Techniques)
Dnd is a group game and the monk features are too anti-group, these have the feature of being uniquely for the monk, this is unfortunate because it decreases their value and the amount of times they can be used. (Deflect missiles, slow fall, Quickened Healing, Stillness of Mind, ...).
Most, if not all these problems are mitigated by making them 1/3rd casters. With a curated list of monk spells that do monk-stuff. It helps break up their reliance on Ki (if that's something you want) or it can help fuel the Ki you're lacking (also if that's what you want). It fixes the issues and it does it in a way that fits right in with anyone's idea of a monk, and any playstyle.
The problem I have with making them 1/3 casters is, first, it looks like they are not doing curated lists for classes going forward (unless they backtrack, which it looks like they are doing some from the latest video about reverting subclass progression to 2014 except subclasses will still all start at 3rd level) so that will not be an option. And, as Tibryn points out, action economy becomes a factor. Unless they change a lot in Monks when the UA comes out. And I don't think a casting monk "fits right in with anyone's idea of a monk" for me.
Most, if not all these problems are mitigated by making them 1/3rd casters. With a curated list of monk spells that do monk-stuff. It helps break up their reliance on Ki (if that's something you want) or it can help fuel the Ki you're lacking (also if that's what you want). It fixes the issues and it does it in a way that fits right in with anyone's idea of a monk, and any playstyle.
I think the better solution would be to give them a second bonus action, or make some things like step of the wind or patient defense a free action, once per turn (but maintain the ki cost)
I think stunning strike should be reworked so as to discourage dumping every single ki point into a stunning attempt until it works... one idea I had was to apply a stunning strike attempt only after 3-4 successful hits land on a single enemy which would encourage more flurry attempts over saving ki for stunning strike. Other options could include a kind of "charger" effect where if the monk closes a 30 foot gap before making an attack on an enemy, stunning strike becomes available which would make step of the wind more enticing.
Mobile needs to be a default feature and added to unarmored movement.
I like the idea of building up to stunning strike, but just like dumping 4 ki into trying to stun and failing every time, I kind of feel players may feel the same let down if they got 2 or 3 of the required hits to land but miss the final required hit. And it's not a choice you make but just left up to the luck of the dice. Not that I am entirely opposed to "luck of the dice" mechanics. I've posted elsewhere the idea of regaining 1 Ki on a critical hit. Some don't like it for the same reason. Too dependent on the dice.
One alternative could be, once per turn you forgo one of your attacks to attempt a stunning strike and stunned on failed save, dazed condition if they succeed. (I don't recall if they still have the Dazed condition in 1D&D or if they rolled it back).
2) How do they design the class to fit that identity without encroaching on other class's identities?
For me, when I think of class identity, which also applies to Ravnodaus's suggestion of making monk a fighter subclass as well, I think of Fighters as the Master of Weapons and Monks as the Masters of the body and its energies. They can fight with weapons or unarmed, but they can manipulate their Ki (energies) to reduce damage from falls (Slow Fall), give them incredible speed and agility (unarmored movement/Defense, deflect missiles, FoB, SotW, PD, Evasion), control over all aspects of their physical form (Ki-Empowered Strikes, Stillness of Mind, Purity of Body, Diamond Soul), and interrupt the flow of these energies in others (Stunning Strike). These are things that define a monks identity that Fighters just don't fit, no matter if they fight with weapons or unarmed.
So Fighters are the Masters of their gear while Monks are the Masters of themselves, kind of thing.
2) How do they design the class to fit that identity without encroaching on other class's identities?
For me, when I think of class identity, which also applies to Ravnodaus's suggestion of making monk a fighter subclass as well, I think of Fighters as the Master of Weapons and Monks as the Masters of the body and its energies. They can fight with weapons or unarmed, but they can manipulate their Ki (energies) to reduce damage from falls (Slow Fall), give them incredible speed and agility (unarmored movement/Defense, deflect missiles, FoB, SotW, PD, Evasion), control over all aspects of their physical form (Ki-Empowered Strikes, Stillness of Mind, Purity of Body, Diamond Soul), and interrupt the flow of these energies in others (Stunning Strike). These are things that define a monks identity that Fighters just don't fit, no matter if they fight with weapons or unarmed.
So Fighters are the Masters of their gear while Monks are the Masters of themselves, kind of thing.
I find it a mistake to make the monk totally independent of magic items. Although the concept is interesting, this detaches it too much from the other classes creating problems.
I would be more inclined to say that the fighter is the master of armed combat and the monk is the master of unarmed combat. I know that in ONE DND they are developing interesting systems in armed combat, I'm just waiting to see what they come up with for unarmed combat.
2) How do they design the class to fit that identity without encroaching on other class's identities?
For me, when I think of class identity, which also applies to Ravnodaus's suggestion of making monk a fighter subclass as well, I think of Fighters as the Master of Weapons and Monks as the Masters of the body and its energies. They can fight with weapons or unarmed, but they can manipulate their Ki (energies) to reduce damage from falls (Slow Fall), give them incredible speed and agility (unarmored movement/Defense, deflect missiles, FoB, SotW, PD, Evasion), control over all aspects of their physical form (Ki-Empowered Strikes, Stillness of Mind, Purity of Body, Diamond Soul), and interrupt the flow of these energies in others (Stunning Strike). These are things that define a monks identity that Fighters just don't fit, no matter if they fight with weapons or unarmed.
So Fighters are the Masters of their gear while Monks are the Masters of themselves, kind of thing.
I find it a mistake to make the monk totally independent of magic items. Although the concept is interesting, this detaches it too much from the other classes creating problems.
I would be more inclined to say that the fighter is the master of armed combat and the monk is the master of unarmed combat. I know that in ONE DND they are developing interesting systems in armed combat, I'm just waiting to see what they come up with for unarmed combat.
I'm not saying that the monk should be independent of magic items. Not at all. I'm talking about the base classes and their identities. You should be able to play a game that is low or no magic and a game that has magic falling off of trees and Fighters and Monks still work the same from an identity standpoint. And I don't agree with people who think Monks don't need magic items. They can use weapons, so should have just as much access to a magic weapon as any other class. Cloaks/rings of protection work on monks just as well as other classes. There are tons of magic items in the game that work just as well for a monk and any other character. Edit: I just don't necessarily agree with making magic items that are only for monks, like magic hand wraps.
Look at the features. Evasion, Slow Fall, Deflect Missiles, Diamond Soul, Stillness of Mind, Purity of Body, all point to a very different identity than the Fighters Second Wind, Action Surge, Indomitable, Fighting Styles.
Look at the features. Evasion, Slow Fall, Deflect Missiles, Diamond Soul, Stillness of Mind, Purity of Body, all point to a very different identity than the Fighters Second Wind, Action Surge, Indomitable, Fighting Styles.
They seem complementary, actually. Like if you add the monk features to the fighter features you have a neat very defensive focused fighter subclass.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Sure, they are all nice features and complimentary, but they provide a different feel to the different classes.
I'm sure you can find all kinds of complimentary features to mix and match. It doesn't mean they should all be part of the same class. And I was talking about the monk identity, which I am saying has a different feel than that of the fighter. The fighter, barbarian, and monk are all part of the Warrior group but each fills a slightly different role/theme
Sure, and different subclasses fulfill different role/theme too.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
people only think that becuase monk got super nerfed from 3.5 to 5e and know people think they should be sub optimal damaging stunbots but that doesn't fit with what the monk is . if anything, the fighter has become more like a monk at high level with increased attacks. I think this is where the problem comes from
I think the monk should parallel the wizard in terms of being weaker at lower levels then very strong at higher levels .
as you attain physical mastery. they should scale better.
they had the scaling flattened out and were brought up at lower levels in current edition but now do not scale.
Also being short rest based to get your ki was a bad idea,
instead they should get a few uses per day of some abilities and not have their damage tied to ki unless they are doing some sort of super maneuver like quivering palm.
I think the monk should parallel the wizard in terms of being weaker at lower levels then very strong at higher levels .
as you attain physical mastery. they should scale better.
they had the scaling flattened out and were brought up at lower levels in current edition but now do not scale.
Also being short rest based to get your ki was a bad idea,
instead they should get a few uses per day of some abilities and not have their damage tied to ki unless they are doing some sort of super maneuver like quivering palm.
Exactly, even magic classes have cantrips, so even if they run out of spell slots, they still have spells that they can use and thus not lose part of their identity.
I think the monk should parallel the wizard in terms of being weaker at lower levels then very strong at higher levels .
as you attain physical mastery. they should scale better.
they had the scaling flattened out and were brought up at lower levels in current edition but now do not scale.
Also being short rest based to get your ki was a bad idea,
instead they should get a few uses per day of some abilities and not have their damage tied to ki unless they are doing some sort of super maneuver like quivering palm.
Exactly, even magic classes have cantrips, so even if they run out of spell slots, they still have spells that they can use and thus not lose part of their identity.
And Monks already have at least three attacks a round at level 5. For the umpteenth time, they are not nearly so attack deprived as y'all make them out to be.
so does every martial with extra attack if they choose too.
Only the Fighter at 11th-level gets three attacks basic though, every other martial maxes out at two at 5th-level unless they use two-weapon fighting or take a feat like Polearm Master (in both cases with the same bonus action cost).
The thing to remember with 5e Monks is the scaling isn't just attacks, it's the Ki points; early on you have to really ration your Ki, so being able to do three attacks at 5th-level for "free" is nifty, but once you have 10+ Ki it's less of a problem to just spend some on Flurry of Blows and/or Stunning Strike during an important battle.
The problem with this is a) it gets boring over 15-levels of progression, b) Stunning Strike is unpredictable (fantastic when it lands, frustrating when it's just burning all your Ki), and c) the value of Ki is dependent upon your access to short rests.
The last one is the same basic issue that 5e Warlocks has; in theory a Warlock is a super powerful full caster since Mystic Arcanum give them full-caster-like access to higher level spells, and with a few short rests they can have 8, 12, 16 etc. 5th-level slots in a day, but in practice for most players they hardly ever cast anything because they don't know when they'll next get the slots back. This isn't quite so bad for the Monk since we have so many Ki points later on, but we only really have a choice between weaker single Ki abilities, or burning a load of Ki on something strong but risky. That's not a bad mechanic in theory, but there's not enough choice within it IMO.
If there's was more we could do than just Stunning Strike then Monk would scale fairly well, but Stunning Strike skews it quite a bit as it's a powerful ability to get so early. I think you're right that the way to go will be to have more powerful abilities become long rest limited, with maybe fewer Ki overall, maybe with more of the basic abilities becoming "free" (aside from the bonus action), so the choice is less about Ki rationing and more about what you need on each turn, switching from defence to offence etc. There are lots of options for rebalancing anyway.
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I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
upon further inspection some things have gotten better but damage has not improved except for astral self and maybe mercy because martial arts die no longer works with weapons that really kills options, before hand eventually your weapon would scale and you good get dueling and also benefit from plus magical weapons . insult to injury is the rogue gets weapon expertise and other things . so in Comparision monk still sucks. had they not nerfed the martials die to weapons I think I would have been reasonably happy with the changes.so ya the good things are the getting ki back once per long rest shadow seeing in their own darkness. bad things rogues are better out of combat and in combat without even having to expend resource
One subclass with High Unarmed Damage
One Subclass with movement and battlefield control options.
The problem with the monk is that it is too detached from the game compared to other classes. Not dependent on items and its features are too defensive, as if to compensate for its d8 hit points and its offensive capabilities are minimal. The game in base should be played with few magic items, but who likes to play without magic items? If these exist why not use them? Another mistake is neglecting hand-to-hand combat in the rules of the game. Feats are another big problem.
I don't think that unarmed combat should be divided from armed combat. The game should be simple and the items should be there for everyone. The monk should depend on items for unarmed combat (e.g., bandages) for martial arts and like any class depend on magic items.
The monk should have personal characteristics that distinguish him from other classes.
Details:
Unarmed combat, and martial arts should be more developed. Somewhat like "battle master" techniques but more towards unarmed combat. The difference of the monk and the fighter is that the fighter is an expert in weapons while the monk is an expert in unarmed techniques. Actually when I heard about the "battle master" I got a little angry.
Martial arts is a variation of the Two-Weapon Fighting feature of the fighter and should not be limited (armor, monk weapons). Monk weapons should not exist. If I were to rewrite the Martial Arts feature I would do it this way:
Martial Arts
At 1st level, your practice of martial arts gives you mastery of combat styles that use unarmed strikes. You gain the following benefits when you aren't wearing heavy armor or wielding a shield:
From my point of view, the only features that should require ki points are martial arts techniques, somewhat like "battle master" maneuvers. These should be supported by another feature that decreases their consumption stress in ki points via features so that the monk, even without ki points remains capable of using some of them (kind of like the cantrips of the magic classes). If I were to create a feature of martial arts techniques I would do it this way:
Ki Techniques
Starting at 2nd level, when you obtain this feature, you learn four Ki Techniques, which you can choose from the Monk Ki Techniques list. As you increase in level, you learn more techniques, as indicated in the Techniques Known column of the monk table. Additionally, when you gain a Monk level, you can exchange any known Ki Technique for another for which you meet the level prerequisites. You cannot repeat the same technique on the same creature in the same turn, each technique consumes 1 ki point, and whenever you hit a creature with a Ki Technique, the creature takes one extra Martial Arts die of damage. Some of the Ki Techniques require your target to make a saving throw to resist the feature's effects. The saving throw DC is calculated as follows:
Harmony
At the 13th level, the harmony achieved between body and mind allows your Ki Techniques to be performed more naturally and in balance. Choose two Ki Techniques between the 2nd and 5th levels that you already know. Once per round, you can perform one of these Ki Techniques without spending ki points. At 18th level, instead of 2 Ki Techniques, you can now choose 4 Ki Techniques between 2nd and 12th levels that you already know. Once per round, you can perform two chosen Ki Techniques in this feature without spending ki points. By spending 8 hours in training and meditation, it is possible to exchange all the chosen Ki Techniques in this feature for other techniques.
The monk should have speed and movement in combat (but with mobile or crusher built in), then not have a need to use the "Step in the wind" feature and instead have Dudge, Dash and Disengage as free bonus actions (kind of like the rogue, but replacing hide with dodge). If I were to rewrite the Unarmored Movement feature I would do it this way:
Unarmored Movement
Starting at 2nd level, your speed increases by 10 feet while you are not wearing armor or wielding a shield. This bonus increases when you reach certain monk levels, as shown in the Monk table. Additionally, you can take the Dash, Disengage, or Dodge actionas as a bonus action on your turn. When you use one of this actions your jump distance is doubled. At 4th level, you can use your reaction when you fall to reduce any falling damage you take by an amount equal to five times your monk level. At 9th level, you gain the ability to move along vertical surfaces and across liquids on your turn without falling during the move.
When people calculate the possible damage capacity of the monk they should not calculate the damage in the bonus action, the bonus action is accessible to other classes and therefore developable by other classes as well, while the monk cannot since it is already part of the calculation. Another reason is that the bonus action is meant to be used as an expendable action for special actions and therefore unreliable.
Thus, calculating the bonus action as class damage is a trap. If one were to compare the class of the fighter with that of the monk one would have to give the fighter the feat "Crossbow expert" to be comparable with the available actions.
Another problem is the "Flurry of blow" attack. Its problem is that it is the reason why there are no powerful items for unarmed attacks. This is because it would be too many attacks for a low-level player. Just imagine a monk with bandanas allowing the power of Flame Tongue. Flurry of blow should be at 11th level and should not require ki points. To be really efficient, however, among the ki techniques there should be one that allows the monk to take a bonus action (of not attacking) and still make this attack unarmed.
Body Cultivation
At 11th level, mastery of the ki flowing through you makes you proficient in Constitution saving throws and immune to diseases and poisons. Additionally, your Martial Arts improved to the point that you can now make two unarmed strikes in your bonus action.
Dnd is a group game and the monk features are too anti-group, these have the feature of being uniquely for the monk, this is unfortunate because it decreases their value and the amount of times they can be used. (Deflect missiles, slow fall, Quickened Healing, Stillness of Mind, ...).
The problem I have with making them 1/3 casters is, first, it looks like they are not doing curated lists for classes going forward (unless they backtrack, which it looks like they are doing some from the latest video about reverting subclass progression to 2014 except subclasses will still all start at 3rd level) so that will not be an option. And, as Tibryn points out, action economy becomes a factor. Unless they change a lot in Monks when the UA comes out. And I don't think a casting monk "fits right in with anyone's idea of a monk" for me.
I like the idea of building up to stunning strike, but just like dumping 4 ki into trying to stun and failing every time, I kind of feel players may feel the same let down if they got 2 or 3 of the required hits to land but miss the final required hit. And it's not a choice you make but just left up to the luck of the dice. Not that I am entirely opposed to "luck of the dice" mechanics. I've posted elsewhere the idea of regaining 1 Ki on a critical hit. Some don't like it for the same reason. Too dependent on the dice.
One alternative could be, once per turn you forgo one of your attacks to attempt a stunning strike and stunned on failed save, dazed condition if they succeed. (I don't recall if they still have the Dazed condition in 1D&D or if they rolled it back).
For me, when I think of class identity, which also applies to Ravnodaus's suggestion of making monk a fighter subclass as well, I think of Fighters as the Master of Weapons and Monks as the Masters of the body and its energies. They can fight with weapons or unarmed, but they can manipulate their Ki (energies) to reduce damage from falls (Slow Fall), give them incredible speed and agility (unarmored movement/Defense, deflect missiles, FoB, SotW, PD, Evasion), control over all aspects of their physical form (Ki-Empowered Strikes, Stillness of Mind, Purity of Body, Diamond Soul), and interrupt the flow of these energies in others (Stunning Strike). These are things that define a monks identity that Fighters just don't fit, no matter if they fight with weapons or unarmed.
So Fighters are the Masters of their gear while Monks are the Masters of themselves, kind of thing.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
I find it a mistake to make the monk totally independent of magic items. Although the concept is interesting, this detaches it too much from the other classes creating problems.
I would be more inclined to say that the fighter is the master of armed combat and the monk is the master of unarmed combat. I know that in ONE DND they are developing interesting systems in armed combat, I'm just waiting to see what they come up with for unarmed combat.
I'm not saying that the monk should be independent of magic items. Not at all. I'm talking about the base classes and their identities. You should be able to play a game that is low or no magic and a game that has magic falling off of trees and Fighters and Monks still work the same from an identity standpoint. And I don't agree with people who think Monks don't need magic items. They can use weapons, so should have just as much access to a magic weapon as any other class. Cloaks/rings of protection work on monks just as well as other classes. There are tons of magic items in the game that work just as well for a monk and any other character. Edit: I just don't necessarily agree with making magic items that are only for monks, like magic hand wraps.
Look at the features. Evasion, Slow Fall, Deflect Missiles, Diamond Soul, Stillness of Mind, Purity of Body, all point to a very different identity than the Fighters Second Wind, Action Surge, Indomitable, Fighting Styles.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
They seem complementary, actually. Like if you add the monk features to the fighter features you have a neat very defensive focused fighter subclass.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
And if you add Barbarian features to Fighters they complement as well, but that doesn’t mean they need to be folded into a single subclass
Sure, they are all nice features and complimentary, but they provide a different feel to the different classes.
I'm sure you can find all kinds of complimentary features to mix and match. It doesn't mean they should all be part of the same class. And I was talking about the monk identity, which I am saying has a different feel than that of the fighter. The fighter, barbarian, and monk are all part of the Warrior group but each fills a slightly different role/theme
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Sure, and different subclasses fulfill different role/theme too.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
people only think that becuase monk got super nerfed from 3.5 to 5e and know people think they should be sub optimal damaging stunbots but that doesn't fit with what the monk is . if anything, the fighter has become more like a monk at high level with increased attacks. I think this is where the problem comes from
I think the monk should parallel the wizard in terms of being weaker at lower levels then very strong at higher levels .
as you attain physical mastery. they should scale better.
they had the scaling flattened out and were brought up at lower levels in current edition but now do not scale.
Also being short rest based to get your ki was a bad idea,
instead they should get a few uses per day of some abilities and not have their damage tied to ki unless they are doing some sort of super maneuver like quivering palm.
Exactly, even magic classes have cantrips, so even if they run out of spell slots, they still have spells that they can use and thus not lose part of their identity.
And Monks already have at least three attacks a round at level 5. For the umpteenth time, they are not nearly so attack deprived as y'all make them out to be.
so does every martial with extra attack if they choose too.
And monks can get a fourth if they choose to (and have the Ki)
Though I agree with some of your points.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Only the Fighter at 11th-level gets three attacks basic though, every other martial maxes out at two at 5th-level unless they use two-weapon fighting or take a feat like Polearm Master (in both cases with the same bonus action cost).
The thing to remember with 5e Monks is the scaling isn't just attacks, it's the Ki points; early on you have to really ration your Ki, so being able to do three attacks at 5th-level for "free" is nifty, but once you have 10+ Ki it's less of a problem to just spend some on Flurry of Blows and/or Stunning Strike during an important battle.
The problem with this is a) it gets boring over 15-levels of progression, b) Stunning Strike is unpredictable (fantastic when it lands, frustrating when it's just burning all your Ki), and c) the value of Ki is dependent upon your access to short rests.
The last one is the same basic issue that 5e Warlocks has; in theory a Warlock is a super powerful full caster since Mystic Arcanum give them full-caster-like access to higher level spells, and with a few short rests they can have 8, 12, 16 etc. 5th-level slots in a day, but in practice for most players they hardly ever cast anything because they don't know when they'll next get the slots back. This isn't quite so bad for the Monk since we have so many Ki points later on, but we only really have a choice between weaker single Ki abilities, or burning a load of Ki on something strong but risky. That's not a bad mechanic in theory, but there's not enough choice within it IMO.
If there's was more we could do than just Stunning Strike then Monk would scale fairly well, but Stunning Strike skews it quite a bit as it's a powerful ability to get so early. I think you're right that the way to go will be to have more powerful abilities become long rest limited, with maybe fewer Ki overall, maybe with more of the basic abilities becoming "free" (aside from the bonus action), so the choice is less about Ki rationing and more about what you need on each turn, switching from defence to offence etc. There are lots of options for rebalancing anyway.
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MONK (+feat Mobile)
FIGHTER (+feat Crossbow Expert)
Liv1: Monk
A x1: ((1d8(4.5) + 3)x0.65) ~4.875
BA: (1d4(2.5) + 3)0.65 ~3.575
Reaction -
TOT: 4.875 + 3.575 ~8.45
~3 turns x C: 8.45 x 3 ~25.35
~1 fight x SR: 25.35 + 0 ~25.35
Liv1: Fighter
A x1: ((1d10(5.5) + 3)x0.65) ~5.525
BA: (1d10(5.5) + 3)0.65 ~5.525
Reaction -
TOT: 5.525x2 ~11.05
~3 turns x C: 11.05 x 3 ~33.15
~1 fight x SR: 36.075 + 0 ~33.15
Liv3: Monk
A x1: ((1d8(4.5) + 3)x0.65) ~4.875
BA (FoB): (1d4(2.5) + 3)0.65 | x2 FoB ~3.575 |~7.15
Reaction -
TOT: 4.875 + 3.575 | +7.15 ~8.45 | ~12.025
~3 turns x C: 12.025 x3 ~36.075
~6 turns xSR: 36.075 + (8.45x3) ~61.425
3 FoB = 3 ki points
Liv3: Fighter
A x1 (AS): ((1d10(5.5) + 3)x0.65)| x2 AS ~5.525 |~11.05
BA: (1d10(5.5) + 3)0.65 ~5.525
Reaction -
TOT: 5.525 X2 |+11.05 ~11.05 |~16.575
~3 turns x C: 16.575 + 11.05x2 ~38.675
~6 turns xSR: 38.675 + 11.05x3 ~71.825
1 Action Surge (AS)
Liv5: Monk
A x2: ((1d8(4.5) + 4)x0.65) x2 ~11.05
BA (FoB): (1d6(3.5) + 4)0.65 | x2 FoB ~4.875 |~9.75
Reaction -
TOT: 11.05 + 4.875 | +9.75 ~15.925 |~20.8
~3 turns x C: 20.8 x3 ~62.4
~6 turns xSR: 20.8 x5 +15.925 ~119.925
5 FoB = 5 ki points
Liv5: Fighter
A x2 (AS): ((1d10(5.5) + 4)x0.65)x2| x2 AS ~12.35 |~24.7
BA: (1d10(5.5) + 4)0.65 ~6.175
Reaction -
TOT: 6.175 + 12.35 |+24.7 ~18.525 |~30.875
~3 turns x C: 30.875 + 18.525x2 ~67.925
~6 turns xSR: 67.925 + 18.525x3 ~123.5
1 Action Surge (AS)
Liv11: Monk
A x2: ((1d8(4.5) + 5)x0.65) x2 ~12.35
BA (FoB): (1d8(4.5) + 5)0.65 | x2 FoB ~6.175 |~12.35
Reaction -
TOT: 12.35 + 6.175 |+12.35 ~18.525 |~24.7
~4 turns x C: 24.7 x3 ~98.8
~12 turns xSR: 24.7 x11 + 18.525 ~290.225
11 FoB = 11 ki points
Liv11: Fighter
A x3 (AS): ((1d10(5.5) + 5)x0.65)x3| x2 AS ~20.475 |~40.95
BA: (1d10(5.5) + 5)0.65 ~6.825
Reaction -
TOT: 6.825 + 20.475 |+40.95 ~27.3 |~47.775
~4 turns x C: 47.775 + 27.3x3 ~129.675
~12 turns xSR: 129.675 + 27.3x8 ~348.075
1 Action Surge (AS)
Liv17: Monk
A x2: ((1d10(5.5) + 5)x0.65) x2 ~13.65
BA (FoB): (1d10(5.5) + 5)0.65 | x2 FoB ~6.825 |~13.65
Reaction -
TOT: 13.65 + 6.825 |+13.65 ~20.475 |~27.3
~6 turns x C: 27.3 x 6 ~163.8
~18 turns xSR: 27.3 x17 + 20.475 ~484.575
17 FoB = 17 ki points
Liv17: Fighter
A x3 (AS): ((1d10(5.5) + 5)x0.65)x3| x2 AS ~20.475 |~40.95
BA: (1d10(5.5) + 5)0.65 ~6.825
Reaction -
TOT: 6.825 + 20.475 |+40.95 ~27.3 |~47.775
~6 turns x C: 47.775 x2 + 27.3x4 ~204.75
~18 turns xSR: 204.75 + 27.3x12 ~532.35
2 Action Surge (AS)
Liv20: Monk
A x2: ((1d10(5.5) + 5)x0.65) x2 ~13.65
BA (FoB): (1d10(5.5) + 5)0.65 | x2 FoB ~6.825 |~13.65
Reaction -
TOT: 13.65 + 6.825 |+13.65 ~20.475 |~27.3
~5 turns x C: 27.3 x5 ~136.5
~20 turns xSR: 27.3 x20 ~546
20 FoB = 20 ki points
Liv20: Fighter
A x4 (AS): ((1d10(5.5) + 5)x0.65)x4| x2 AS ~27.3 |~54.6
BA: (1d10(5.5) + 5)0.65 ~6.825
Reaction -
TOT: 6.825 + 27.3 |+54.6 ~34.125 |~61.425
~5 turns x C: 61.425 x2 + 34.125x3 ~225.225
~20 turns xSR: 225.225 + 34.125x15 ~737.1
2 Action Surge (AS)
Ya definitely needs buffs. hopefully next ua gives some nice options.
woot they did bump it up . happy days . some nice improvements.
upon further inspection some things have gotten better but damage has not improved except for astral self and maybe mercy because martial arts die no longer works with weapons that really kills options, before hand eventually your weapon would scale and you good get dueling and also benefit from plus magical weapons . insult to injury is the rogue gets weapon expertise and other things . so in Comparision monk still sucks. had they not nerfed the martials die to weapons I think I would have been reasonably happy with the changes.so ya the good things are the getting ki back once per long rest shadow seeing in their own darkness. bad things rogues are better out of combat and in combat without even having to expend resource