I can see an argument for what you're suggesting, the way the Reach property is written could be read as two separate clauses, one for regular attacks and one for opportunity attacks, although I don't know if that is intentional. I think RAW I would have a hard time arguing it but, as you say, it also doesn't make a lot of sense that I'm suddenly ok with people getting farther behind me before I hit them.
Your point does bring up another interesting question about what happens if someone under the effects of Eldritch Claw Tattoo is using a weapon with the Reach property. I initially thought it was pretty straight forward that Eldritch Claw Tattoo is setting your reach to 15 feet so a weapon with Reach would have no additional effect but based on how the Reach property is written I could see someone trying to make an argument that it does. Normally characters can hit people within 5 feet of them regardless of what kind of melee weapon they have; Halfling fists and a Goliath with a greatsword are equally threatening RAW. The Reach property adds 5 feet to the range of your attacks. If Eldritch Claw Tattoo is now setting your range at 15 feet instead of 5 feet I could see someone arguing that their polearm should now allow them to hit people 20 feet away. Again, I don't think that is what is intended as the item describes the additional range coming from "inky tendrils" rather than the weapon itself but I could see someone trying to make that arguement.
From Eldritch Claw: "For the duration, each of your melee attacks with a weapon or an unarmed strike can reach a target up to 15 feet away from you" ... it doesn't increase your reach. It says your melee attacks with a weapon can hit targets 15 feet away. It's written such that it does not stack with other effects, like a Bugbear's long limbs or Astral Monk's astral arms.
Put another way: If ever, for any reason, you wanted to hit something 20 feet away from you, Eldritch Claw does not allow it. It specifically says "up to 15 feet away from you". I don't see any way around that language, because this is close to as specific as you can get as well.
To be clear, I agree with you that this is the intent and it's how I would use it if I were to have it in a game or see it as a DM. I'm not sure it is completely cut and dry though.
The Reach property says "This weapon adds 5 feet to your reach when you attack with it, as well as when determining your reach for opportunity attacks with it." This ability says nothing about what that original reach is, just that it adds 5 feet to it. The Bugbear's Long Limbed ability says "When you make a melee attack on your turn, your reach for it is 5 feet greater than normal." This then hinges on what "normal" is. I would say that it refers to the 5 foot range all melee weapons have but as far as I know, this has been interpreted to allow a Bugbear with a Polearm to have a 15 foot reach so with that combination of race and weapon, 10 feet is it's "normal" threat range. Would 15 feet be considered the "normal" threat range under the effect of Eldritch Claw? Either that or you are choosing to apply the Long Limbed ability first and the Reach property second. Is there a standard "order of operations" for things like this?
An Astral Self Monk uses the same wording as the Bugbear's ability but it at least in that case you are explicitly attacking with your unarmed attack so there is no combining it with a Reach weapon. Has there been any official ruling on what the range for a Bugbear Astral Self Monk's arms are?
I read these things that affect range as similar to a lot of the AC determining abilities. Lots of stuff sets your AC (unarmored defense, Tortle's defense, Mage Armor, etc) but those cannot stack. Then there are things that add +1 or +5 or whatever to AC. Those can stack.
Bugbears, Astral Arms, Reach weapons... all these things make your range five feet farther. But Eldritch Claw SETS your reach at a solid 15 feet, period. When Eldritch Claw is active, you cannot reach farther than 15 feet to make a melee attack. You could be a bugbear wielding a glaive, but you cannot reach farther than 15 feet to make your attack due to Eldritch Claw because "your melee attacks [...] can reach a target up to 15 feet away from you". As soon as they are 20 feet away, Eldritch Claw is unable to hit them.
Like a lot of things, I suppose that it comes down to DM fiat about what is the "most specific" affect here. But to me, it would be very difficult to find something more "specific" than an activated ability on a magic item. That's more specific than a racial ability (Bugbear) or a class ability (Astral Arms) or a weapon property (Reach).
(Those things alone would stack with one another where applicable. Standard range is 5 ft, Bugbear adds 5 to it, Glaive adds 5 to it OR Astral Arms adds 5 to it. If Eldritch Claw was meant to work similarly, I think it would read "adds 10 feet to your reach" or "your reach is 10 feet greater than normal".)
I think you are all missing the point I was making with the Eldritch Claw being combined with the Sentinel Feat. Even if we were using a simple Whip the point is that at a range of 10ft or 15ft if he successfully hits a target their speed becomes ZERO. They STOP moving. Then if they should proceed within that area and make an attack at one of your friends within 5 ft of you, you can hit them again. The additional kicker is if you do get proficiency with a whip say with Weapon Master as a 1st Lvl Human Variant, you could then pick Sentinel at 4th Lvl and already be enacting this. Further, if the Monk Option is used allowing you to treat the Whip as a Chosen Ki weapon, you would be able to use your martial dice rather than the d4 from the whip. With the Eldritch Claw you'd be able to stop the enemy at 15ft without all of these extras. Then you could hit them again if they are within 5 ft of you and they attack a friend.
Sentinel
You have mastered techniques to take advantage of every drop in any enemy’s guard, gaining the following benefits:
When you hit a creature with an opportunity attack, the creature’s speed becomes 0 for the rest of the turn.
Creatures provoke opportunity attacks from you even if they take the Disengage action before leaving your reach.
When a creature within 5 feet of you makes an attack against a target other than you (and that target doesn’t have this feat), you can use your reaction to make a melee weapon attack against the attacking creature.
With the Eldritch Claw you'd be able to stop the enemy at 15ft without all of these extras. Then you could hit them again if they are within 5 ft of you and they attack a friend.
How are you attacking again? The OA that dropped their movement to 0 already consumed your Reaction.
Sentinel is very strong, but from what I have seen in play the Reaction limit keeps it in check. Unless you are Cobalt Soul I suppose. :)
One item I haven't seen here yet: Ioun Stone of Mastery is a great monk item at high levels. +1 to prof bonus bumps up a LOT of stuff.
With the Eldritch Claw you'd be able to stop the enemy at 15ft without all of these extras. Then you could hit them again if they are within 5 ft of you and they attack a friend.
How are you attacking again? The OA that dropped their movement to 0 already consumed your Reaction.
Sentinel is very strong, but from what I have seen in play the Reaction limit keeps it in check. Unless you are Cobalt Soul I suppose. :)
One item I haven't seen here yet: Ioun Stone of Mastery is a great monk item at high levels. +1 to prof bonus bumps up a LOT of stuff.
He's talking about the next turn they move. However. Sentinel does not allow an attack on incoming movement. Your still restricted to only make them on leaving your threat range or on a person that attacks an ally while also being close to you. So that's where his plan does not work. Only PAM allows for a reaction attack on incoming enemy based on movement.
I think this has kind of been covered by others now but Sentinel doesn't let you hit people when they get within your range unless you combo it with Polearm Master. For the "reduce speed to 0" part of Sentinel then the added reach actually makes it harder to activate because it your enemies have a larger bubble they can maneuver in without leaving your threat range. The third part of the feat is arguably hindered too because your larger bubble gives them a better chance of being able to maneuver around you without leaving your threat range so they can hit your friends from a position that is more than 5 feet from you (but less than 15 feet) but within range of them.
On that topic though, Polearm Master would be a pretty good one to combo with Eldritch Claw because you can take full advantage of the increased range without it being a liability. Get something nasty like a Staff of Thunder and Lightning that a Monk can use without worrying about any additional proficiencies and you can hit someone who steps within 15 feet of you for 1d8 + 1d6 (Eldritch Claw) + 2 (built in to staff) + 5 (assuming max Dex) + one of the magical effects on the staff would be pretty painful.
I think this has kind of been covered by others now but Sentinel doesn't let you hit people when they get within your range unless you combo it with Polearm Master. For the "reduce speed to 0" part of Sentinel then the added reach actually makes it harder to activate because it your enemies have a larger bubble they can maneuver in without leaving your threat range. The third part of the feat is arguably hindered too because your larger bubble gives them a better chance of being able to maneuver around you without leaving your threat range so they can hit your friends from a position that is more than 5 feet from you (but less than 15 feet) but within range of them.
On that topic though, Polearm Master would be a pretty good one to combo with Eldritch Claw because you can take full advantage of the increased range without it being a liability. Get something nasty like a Staff of Thunder and Lightning that a Monk can use without worrying about any additional proficiencies and you can hit someone who steps within 15 feet of you for 1d8 + 1d6 (Eldritch Claw) + 2 (built in to staff) + 5 (assuming max Dex) + one of the magical effects on the staff would be pretty painful.
PAM I think is a good mix to make. Because like you said it does allow you to take advantage of people moving around and your larger threat range much better than Sentinel does.
I'd say that Martial Arts already duplicating the first half of PAM makes it less appealing, but the "AOO when someone moves into range" half of PAM is powerful enough alone to still make it work.
I'd say that Martial Arts already duplicating the first half of PAM makes it less appealing, but the "AOO when someone moves into range" half of PAM is powerful enough alone to still make it work.
Polearm Master is just so dang good.
it's not perfect or required certainly. But then no feat really is for the monk despite the efforts of some to make certain ones so. But I think that is a good thing. You take them if they add something for you instead of trying to figure out how to jam them into a build because you have to have it.
I'd say that Martial Arts already duplicating the first half of PAM makes it less appealing, but the "AOO when someone moves into range" half of PAM is powerful enough alone to still make it work.
Polearm Master is just so dang good.
it's not perfect or required certainly. But then no feat really is for the monk despite the efforts of some to make certain ones so. But I think that is a good thing. You take them if they add something for you instead of trying to figure out how to jam them into a build because you have to have it.
Not trying to say it was required, just that it is one of the 5ish best feats out there. The "AOO when a creature enters your range" half is good enough to be a feat in and of itself.
Definitely don't feel any feats are required, though some are obviously better than others.
One thing I would probably say re-polearm master is keep in mind that Eldritch Maul only lasts for a minute and can only be used once per day, so the extra mileage you're getting from the combo is limited. It's not a feat I'd personally rush to take for a character with spear, especially a Monk as the first bullet point is redundant for a Monk, and the second one is only a reaction attack some of the time, and within a limited radius. There's also the fact that it relies on the enemy coming to you, but as a high speed Monk you're more likely to go to them.
While I think Eldritch Claw Tattoo is a fantastic new magic item for a monk, I don't think either Polearm Master or Sentinel stacks so well with it that I'd take them personally. I don't think they're bad choices, and if they work well for the character you want to build then absolutely go for it (character should always be your number one priority in any build), but Mobile is still by far the easiest feat to justify and get the benefit from as a Monk, and close behind that are half feats like Skill Expert for out of combat utility, or maybe Fey or Shadow Touched for the magic, as half feats don't slow down your ability score progression as much (and are ideal if you've got an odd numbered score that matches).
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Produced by a special needle, this magic tattoo evokes fury in its form and colors.
Tattoo Attunement. To attune to this item, you hold the needle to your skin where you want the tattoo to appear, pressing the needle there throughout the attunement process. When the attunement is complete, the needle turns into the ink that becomes the tattoo, which appears on the skin.
If your attunement to the tattoo ends, the tattoo vanishes, and the needle reappears in your space.
Bloodthirsty Strikes. The tattoo has 10 charges, and it regains all expended charges daily at dawn. While this tattoo is on your skin, you gain the following benefits:
When you hit a creature with a weapon attack, you can expend a charge to deal an extra 4d6 necrotic damage to the target, and you regain a number of hit points equal to the necrotic damage dealt.
When a creature you can see damages you, you can expend a charge and use your reaction to make a melee attack against that creature, with advantage on your attack roll.
Then everyone is going to tell you that your unarmed attack is not a weapon. To which I gift you this from Twitter:
Jeremy Crawford@JeremyECrawford Jan 12, 2018
Unarmed strikes have always been weapon attacks. Here’s where the confusion comes in: your unarmed strike (fist, elbow, knee, butt, etc.) is not considered by the rules to be a weaponthe way a longsword is a weapon. But the rules let you make unarmed weapon attacks anyway.
Jeremy Crawford@JeremyECrawford 21 Feb 20
Unarmed strikes in D&D are weapon attacks, as specified in the combat rules.
“Weapon Attack” and “Spell Attack” are game terms, which are used to classify attacks in the game. Every attack is one of those two types. #DnD
Jeremy Crawford@JeremyECrawford 21 Feb 20
Unarmed strikes in D&D are weapon attacks, as specified in the combat rules.
“Weapon Attack” and “Spell Attack” are game terms, which are used to classify attacks in the game. Every attack is one of those two types. #DnD
Oh crap...you said Common.
Walloping Ammunition.
Potion of Climbing.
Pick a good area with difficult terrain and plink with sling stones.
Defensive magical items are good. There are many of them that aren't armor. Things that add extra functionality that others might overlook because they are busy hunting arms and armor are also something. There's things like a lamp that actually reveals invisible creatures in a certain radius that is a powerful advantage for the monk since they don't have to hunt out weapons and armor. Just as one example.
Monks when it comes to magical items. With the exception of looking for things like Rings of Protection are perhaps the most open in the magical items they take and thus could end up with a very interesting assortment of alternative means of functioning that other classes tend to overlook to some extent.
There are also things like the Tattoo that does armor class as a way to skip much of the AC issue if for some reason you want to play a strength based monk instead of a dex based one thanks to Tasha's to get alternate builds that just weren't possible to the monk before. And the best version of that tattoo is the equivilant of Full Plate without any carrying capacity and means the monk only loses out on 2ac total compared to the maximum possible of unarmored defense and magical items can still add on top of it.
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From Eldritch Claw: "For the duration, each of your melee attacks with a weapon or an unarmed strike can reach a target up to 15 feet away from you" ... it doesn't increase your reach. It says your melee attacks with a weapon can hit targets 15 feet away. It's written such that it does not stack with other effects, like a Bugbear's long limbs or Astral Monk's astral arms.
Put another way: If ever, for any reason, you wanted to hit something 20 feet away from you, Eldritch Claw does not allow it. It specifically says "up to 15 feet away from you". I don't see any way around that language, because this is close to as specific as you can get as well.
To be clear, I agree with you that this is the intent and it's how I would use it if I were to have it in a game or see it as a DM. I'm not sure it is completely cut and dry though.
The Reach property says "This weapon adds 5 feet to your reach when you attack with it, as well as when determining your reach for opportunity attacks with it." This ability says nothing about what that original reach is, just that it adds 5 feet to it. The Bugbear's Long Limbed ability says "When you make a melee attack on your turn, your reach for it is 5 feet greater than normal." This then hinges on what "normal" is. I would say that it refers to the 5 foot range all melee weapons have but as far as I know, this has been interpreted to allow a Bugbear with a Polearm to have a 15 foot reach so with that combination of race and weapon, 10 feet is it's "normal" threat range. Would 15 feet be considered the "normal" threat range under the effect of Eldritch Claw? Either that or you are choosing to apply the Long Limbed ability first and the Reach property second. Is there a standard "order of operations" for things like this?
An Astral Self Monk uses the same wording as the Bugbear's ability but it at least in that case you are explicitly attacking with your unarmed attack so there is no combining it with a Reach weapon. Has there been any official ruling on what the range for a Bugbear Astral Self Monk's arms are?
I read these things that affect range as similar to a lot of the AC determining abilities. Lots of stuff sets your AC (unarmored defense, Tortle's defense, Mage Armor, etc) but those cannot stack. Then there are things that add +1 or +5 or whatever to AC. Those can stack.
Bugbears, Astral Arms, Reach weapons... all these things make your range five feet farther. But Eldritch Claw SETS your reach at a solid 15 feet, period. When Eldritch Claw is active, you cannot reach farther than 15 feet to make a melee attack. You could be a bugbear wielding a glaive, but you cannot reach farther than 15 feet to make your attack due to Eldritch Claw because "your melee attacks [...] can reach a target up to 15 feet away from you". As soon as they are 20 feet away, Eldritch Claw is unable to hit them.
Like a lot of things, I suppose that it comes down to DM fiat about what is the "most specific" affect here. But to me, it would be very difficult to find something more "specific" than an activated ability on a magic item. That's more specific than a racial ability (Bugbear) or a class ability (Astral Arms) or a weapon property (Reach).
(Those things alone would stack with one another where applicable. Standard range is 5 ft, Bugbear adds 5 to it, Glaive adds 5 to it OR Astral Arms adds 5 to it. If Eldritch Claw was meant to work similarly, I think it would read "adds 10 feet to your reach" or "your reach is 10 feet greater than normal".)
I think you are all missing the point I was making with the Eldritch Claw being combined with the Sentinel Feat. Even if we were using a simple Whip the point is that at a range of 10ft or 15ft if he successfully hits a target their speed becomes ZERO. They STOP moving. Then if they should proceed within that area and make an attack at one of your friends within 5 ft of you, you can hit them again. The additional kicker is if you do get proficiency with a whip say with Weapon Master as a 1st Lvl Human Variant, you could then pick Sentinel at 4th Lvl and already be enacting this. Further, if the Monk Option is used allowing you to treat the Whip as a Chosen Ki weapon, you would be able to use your martial dice rather than the d4 from the whip. With the Eldritch Claw you'd be able to stop the enemy at 15ft without all of these extras. Then you could hit them again if they are within 5 ft of you and they attack a friend.
Sentinel
You have mastered techniques to take advantage of every drop in any enemy’s guard, gaining the following benefits:
How are you attacking again? The OA that dropped their movement to 0 already consumed your Reaction.
Sentinel is very strong, but from what I have seen in play the Reaction limit keeps it in check. Unless you are Cobalt Soul I suppose. :)
One item I haven't seen here yet: Ioun Stone of Mastery is a great monk item at high levels. +1 to prof bonus bumps up a LOT of stuff.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
He's talking about the next turn they move. However. Sentinel does not allow an attack on incoming movement. Your still restricted to only make them on leaving your threat range or on a person that attacks an ally while also being close to you. So that's where his plan does not work. Only PAM allows for a reaction attack on incoming enemy based on movement.
I think this has kind of been covered by others now but Sentinel doesn't let you hit people when they get within your range unless you combo it with Polearm Master. For the "reduce speed to 0" part of Sentinel then the added reach actually makes it harder to activate because it your enemies have a larger bubble they can maneuver in without leaving your threat range. The third part of the feat is arguably hindered too because your larger bubble gives them a better chance of being able to maneuver around you without leaving your threat range so they can hit your friends from a position that is more than 5 feet from you (but less than 15 feet) but within range of them.
On that topic though, Polearm Master would be a pretty good one to combo with Eldritch Claw because you can take full advantage of the increased range without it being a liability. Get something nasty like a Staff of Thunder and Lightning that a Monk can use without worrying about any additional proficiencies and you can hit someone who steps within 15 feet of you for 1d8 + 1d6 (Eldritch Claw) + 2 (built in to staff) + 5 (assuming max Dex) + one of the magical effects on the staff would be pretty painful.
PAM I think is a good mix to make. Because like you said it does allow you to take advantage of people moving around and your larger threat range much better than Sentinel does.
I'd say that Martial Arts already duplicating the first half of PAM makes it less appealing, but the "AOO when someone moves into range" half of PAM is powerful enough alone to still make it work.
Polearm Master is just so dang good.
it's not perfect or required certainly. But then no feat really is for the monk despite the efforts of some to make certain ones so. But I think that is a good thing. You take them if they add something for you instead of trying to figure out how to jam them into a build because you have to have it.
Not trying to say it was required, just that it is one of the 5ish best feats out there. The "AOO when a creature enters your range" half is good enough to be a feat in and of itself.
Definitely don't feel any feats are required, though some are obviously better than others.
One thing I would probably say re-polearm master is keep in mind that Eldritch Maul only lasts for a minute and can only be used once per day, so the extra mileage you're getting from the combo is limited. It's not a feat I'd personally rush to take for a character with spear, especially a Monk as the first bullet point is redundant for a Monk, and the second one is only a reaction attack some of the time, and within a limited radius. There's also the fact that it relies on the enemy coming to you, but as a high speed Monk you're more likely to go to them.
While I think Eldritch Claw Tattoo is a fantastic new magic item for a monk, I don't think either Polearm Master or Sentinel stacks so well with it that I'd take them personally. I don't think they're bad choices, and if they work well for the character you want to build then absolutely go for it (character should always be your number one priority in any build), but Mobile is still by far the easiest feat to justify and get the benefit from as a Monk, and close behind that are half feats like Skill Expert for out of combat utility, or maybe Fey or Shadow Touched for the magic, as half feats don't slow down your ability score progression as much (and are ideal if you've got an odd numbered score that matches).
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
I’m looking for some common magic items for my monk for pvp game any ideas
Common? Or uncommon? Really no common items are going to give a benefit to combat.
Insignia of claws is good if you're looking at uncommon. Or a +1 weapon.
Only one Tattoo I could think of that would be super powerful for anyone Blood Fury Tattoo.
Wondrous item (tattoo), legendary (requires attunement)
Produced by a special needle, this magic tattoo evokes fury in its form and colors.
Tattoo Attunement. To attune to this item, you hold the needle to your skin where you want the tattoo to appear, pressing the needle there throughout the attunement process. When the attunement is complete, the needle turns into the ink that becomes the tattoo, which appears on the skin.
If your attunement to the tattoo ends, the tattoo vanishes, and the needle reappears in your space.
Bloodthirsty Strikes. The tattoo has 10 charges, and it regains all expended charges daily at dawn. While this tattoo is on your skin, you gain the following benefits:
Then everyone is going to tell you that your unarmed attack is not a weapon. To which I gift you this from Twitter:
Jeremy Crawford @JeremyECrawford Jan 12, 2018
Unarmed strikes have always been weapon attacks. Here’s where the confusion comes in: your unarmed strike (fist, elbow, knee, butt, etc.) is not considered by the rules to be a weapon the way a longsword is a weapon. But the rules let you make unarmed weapon attacks anyway.
Jeremy Crawford @JeremyECrawford 21 Feb 20
Unarmed strikes in D&D are weapon attacks, as specified in the combat rules.
“Weapon Attack” and “Spell Attack” are game terms, which are used to classify attacks in the game. Every attack is one of those two types. #DnD
Jeremy Crawford @JeremyECrawford 21 Feb 20
Unarmed strikes in D&D are weapon attacks, as specified in the combat rules.
“Weapon Attack” and “Spell Attack” are game terms, which are used to classify attacks in the game. Every attack is one of those two types. #DnD
Oh crap...you said Common.
Walloping Ammunition.
Potion of Climbing.
Pick a good area with difficult terrain and plink with sling stones.
Defensive magical items are good. There are many of them that aren't armor. Things that add extra functionality that others might overlook because they are busy hunting arms and armor are also something. There's things like a lamp that actually reveals invisible creatures in a certain radius that is a powerful advantage for the monk since they don't have to hunt out weapons and armor. Just as one example.
Monks when it comes to magical items. With the exception of looking for things like Rings of Protection are perhaps the most open in the magical items they take and thus could end up with a very interesting assortment of alternative means of functioning that other classes tend to overlook to some extent.
There are also things like the Tattoo that does armor class as a way to skip much of the AC issue if for some reason you want to play a strength based monk instead of a dex based one thanks to Tasha's to get alternate builds that just weren't possible to the monk before. And the best version of that tattoo is the equivilant of Full Plate without any carrying capacity and means the monk only loses out on 2ac total compared to the maximum possible of unarmored defense and magical items can still add on top of it.