So, is this just overkill? I'm thinking it would make for a fun character that could just make their own keys instead of breaking and entering with lockpicks and such...
But, since sneak attack isn't important (as in not a goal of the character even though it would certainly be useful)... Is a straight conjurer better? Just get stealth from background or similar.
And if rogue, which subclass? The thief? arcane trickster? It seems like part of the reason to use either of those would be for easier pickpocketing and so on, to sleight of hand the key instead of just conjuring a copy... I'm not sure, advice welcome :)
Wizards don’t need stuff like stealth or Thieves' Tools since they can cast stuff like knock and invisibility. If you don’t honestly care about Sneak Attack, all that Expertise, a bajillian uses for their bonus actions, and having all of their features available all day everyday; then just go straight Wiz.
Wizards don’t need stuff like stealth or Thieves' Tools since they can cast stuff like knock and invisibility. If you don’t honestly care about Sneak Attack, all that Expertise, a bajillian uses for their bonus actions, and having all of their features available all day everyday; then just go straight Wiz.
Spellslots are very limited though and why cast Knock when you can create a copy of the key to open the door? Save knock for the truly hard treasures. Also, invisible or not you still need to roll stealth if you're sneaking past someone or they will know you are there automatically, plus any little spell would break the invisibility so only using it in specific situations is a good idea anyways. The goal wasn't to be able to do sneaky stuff once a day, it's to make a really really good thief. And the concept of keen mind and conjuration wizard for those really nice conjured copies of keys, or conjured lockpicks and such just seems like fun.
Also I never said anything about their bonus actions or expertise, I only mentioned I wouldn't care about sneak attack specifically, since the goal wouldn't be damage. But on the other hand you could get around expertise and such with other spells too... So maybe. I probably wouldn't care too much about high level spells either, so I don't know ;D Things like Locate object could be useful though.
The question is, how much should I go into one class :/
Bonus action hide is of course really effective in combination with invisibility and perhaps that invocation for unlimited disguise self too...
Probably need a good way to hide from scrying later too if I'm going to go around stealing a lot. So, few levels of spellcasting is probably good... Then again the thief subclass does get the ability to use almost any magic device so that would also work.
AT for sure, to steal a key, examine it, put it back, then create it later :)
Yeah that's probably a pretty good idea tbh :)
And yet a thief could do the same thing by pickpocketing or palming a key, pressing it into a mold, and then returning the key to their pocket or other place they got it from. No magic required. Thieves have been doing this for a long long time already. This is one of the reasons there are candles in the burglar's pack. Soft Wax is good for copying the shape of keys for duplicates to be made later. No Magic Required.. However potential proficiency in certain other kinds of tools might be.
Even better use of the combo, the DMG poisons aren't considered magical and therefor able to be made with conjuration wizard. Thief/poisoner feat lets you apply them as a bonus action to make up for your meh sneak attack progression and will mean you do good single target damage for basically free. If you are willing to do poisoner feat then arcane trickster might be better for the invisible mage hand pickpocketing. I'd probably go Rogue 3/ Conjuration X for progression since your wizard casting even delayed 3 levels will make you more generally useful than the rogue features.
AT for sure, to steal a key, examine it, put it back, then create it later :)
Yeah that's probably a pretty good idea tbh :)
And yet a thief could do the same thing by pickpocketing or palming a key, pressing it into a mold, and then returning the key to their pocket or other place they got it from. No magic required. Thieves have been doing this for a long long time already. This is one of the reasons there are candles in the burglar's pack. Soft Wax is good for copying the shape of keys for duplicates to be made later. No Magic Required.. However potential proficiency in certain other kinds of tools might be.
That takes a lot more time than using a few seconds to conjure up a copy on the fly though
AT for sure, to steal a key, examine it, put it back, then create it later :)
Yeah that's probably a pretty good idea tbh :)
And yet a thief could do the same thing by pickpocketing or palming a key, pressing it into a mold, and then returning the key to their pocket or other place they got it from. No magic required. Thieves have been doing this for a long long time already. This is one of the reasons there are candles in the burglar's pack. Soft Wax is good for copying the shape of keys for duplicates to be made later. No Magic Required.. However potential proficiency in certain other kinds of tools might be.
That takes a lot more time than using a few seconds to conjure up a copy on the fly though
Many of those spells take more than a few seconds as well. And it's more permanent than the couple that do just take a few seconds. Meaning the process doesn't have to be entirely repeated if you need to do it again for some reason.
AT for sure, to steal a key, examine it, put it back, then create it later :)
Yeah that's probably a pretty good idea tbh :)
And yet a thief could do the same thing by pickpocketing or palming a key, pressing it into a mold, and then returning the key to their pocket or other place they got it from. No magic required. Thieves have been doing this for a long long time already. This is one of the reasons there are candles in the burglar's pack. Soft Wax is good for copying the shape of keys for duplicates to be made later. No Magic Required.. However potential proficiency in certain other kinds of tools might be.
That takes a lot more time than using a few seconds to conjure up a copy on the fly though
Many of those spells take more than a few seconds as well. And it's more permanent than the couple that do just take a few seconds. Meaning the process doesn't have to be entirely repeated if you need to do it again for some reason.
You're kinda missing the point here being that a level 2 conjurer can conjure items with an action, they could conjure a copy of a key with just one action not many actions, not needing to go out and make the actual copy, they could do it on the fly, like I said. Much much more efficient and quicker than the thing you proposed. In addition it lasts for an hour, can be easily disposed of to ensure there's no proof and also has many more uses. While I don't disagree that it's a thing to do it like you proposed, a conjurer does it much faster which is the point of my thread and the theme of the character.
So, for instance, in the mid of a social gathering, pocketing the key, do a quick study, giving it back and then proceeding to walk away, making a copy, entering the closed of room and chest with the thing you wanted. A regular thief could do the same but most likely they would have to spend a lot more time doing it and probably had to come back another day.
You don't need to pocket the key, you just need to see it (and you don't need Keen Mind). You also won't need a key for many locks - you have access to the Shape Water cantrip and you can't run out of Conjured water.
If you want to do what you're describing, which is laying eyes on the key in a social gathering, you'll want to multiclass with a charisma class, for being good at socialising (and you won't need much or any intelligence other than the 13 for multiclassing a wizard, if you do it right and only go for spells that don't rely on saves or attacks). Probably your best bet is Warlock, due to the invocation Ghostly Gaze, which will let you simply lay eyes on the key if you're close enough. In fact, you might be better off looking at this approach as a Warlock with a Conjurer dip. You could also do it with bard - you can Conjure any tool in the PHB, and Jack of All Trades will make you half proficient in all of them at once - but most toolkits you can generally leave at home, so the ability to always have the tool you need on hand gets less useful as you gain wealth and the ability to simply buy tools (and Artificer+Bard does every tool at once better). Neither Warlock nor Bard will nerf your spell slot progression, unlike Arcane Trickster.
You don't need to pocket the key, you just need to see it (and you don't need Keen Mind). You also won't need a key for many locks - you have access to the Shape Water cantrip and you can't run out of Conjured water.
If you want to do what you're describing, which is laying eyes on the key in a social gathering, you'll want to multiclass with a charisma class, for being good at socialising (and you won't need much or any intelligence other than the 13 for multiclassing a wizard, if you do it right and only go for spells that don't rely on saves or attacks). Probably your best bet is Warlock, due to the invocation Ghostly Gaze, which will let you simply lay eyes on the key if you're close enough. In fact, you might be better off looking at this approach as a Warlock with a Conjurer dip. You could also do it with bard - you can Conjure any tool in the PHB, and Jack of All Trades will make you half proficient in all of them at once - but most toolkits you can generally leave at home, so the ability to always have the tool you need on hand gets less useful as you gain wealth and the ability to simply buy tools (and Artificer+Bard does every tool at once better). Neither Warlock nor Bard will nerf your spell slot progression, unlike Arcane Trickster.
The thought for keen mind is basically a mix of being able to conjure exact copies for a longer period of time and to be honest a key only works if it's made in a specific way and I would expect the DM to force you to make a roll to remember how a specific intricate key looked, especially if you only had a quick glance. Most people would NOT be able to even draw a similar copy of a key just by a glance so conjuring one that would fit a specific lock isn't "obvious".
Also not sure how the shape water would help? Shaping water would not automatically mean you can use the water with any amount of force needed to push the right pins in the right place and a frozen key would easily snap so I don't think this would work except by any DM basically houseruling it would because they thought it was cool. The description of the spell doesn't imply at any point it could be made though.
A bard or warlock could probably work yes, but would have a very different feel. Especially the warlock would be harder to fit with the thief theme, sworn and beholden and all that.. Sure it works but by then the thief part is a bit secondary. A bit the same with bard, though I agree it would be a nice combination with jack of all trades, though the idea wasn't to be able to use all tools really.
As for charisma classes, simply going for expertise in persuasion/deception from the rogue or feats or similar would work just as well in my opinion, and having a decent charisma score even as a rogue or a wizard isn't impossible so the charisma classes aren't really better at this than any others even if they might have more synergy (though, you could simply use spells from other classes without spells that require a dc as well, and having only a lets say 14 charisma wouldn't be a problem for the charisma classes either).
As for arcane trixter it was more about getting access to the particular abilities of their mage hand which is by far a lot better than anyone elses.
The thought for keen mind is basically a mix of being able to conjure exact copies for a longer period of time and to be honest a key only works if it's made in a specific way and I would expect the DM to force you to make a roll to remember how a specific intricate key looked, especially if you only had a quick glance. Most people would NOT be able to even draw a similar copy of a key just by a glance so conjuring one that would fit a specific lock isn't "obvious".
Replying inside your block quote, so I changed font colors to make the post easier to read. The text of minor conjuration explicitly spells out your limitations for conjuring an item; you must have seen it, but you do not need to pass a roll to remember it, any more than a Druid does to Wild Shape into a Beast. Your GM could rule that you need to pass an Int check, which Keen Mind would let you pass automatically, but this would be a houseruled nerf to the ability, not the RAW. Obviously you know your situation best. Bear in mind that as nerfing is applied, it becomes more and more tempting to solve the same problem with a Forge Domain cleric.
Also not sure how the shape water would help? Shaping water would not automatically mean you can use the water with any amount of force needed to push the right pins in the right place and a frozen key would easily snap so I don't think this would work except by any DM basically houseruling it would because they thought it was cool. The description of the spell doesn't imply at any point it could be made though.
An ice key won't snap, since you can force the key to move using Shape Water, which moves the whole thing at once - explicitly this isn't forceful enough to hurt anyone, but you just don't need to turn the key with your hand, which is what causes snapping. Moving the entire key at once might result in the key not turning in the lock - if you have a lock where the key has to turn with at least 1 damage point's worth of force - but the key won't snap. If you don't mind breaking the lock, you can get into the weeds with your GM what happens when you fill the lock with liquid water, freeze it (remember, the amount of force with which it will try to expand is not infinite, but it is quite substantial), and possibly hit it with a hammer.
A bard or warlock could probably work yes, but would have a very different feel. Especially the warlock would be harder to fit with the thief theme, sworn and beholden and all that.. Sure it works but by then the thief part is a bit secondary. A bit the same with bard, though I agree it would be a nice combination with jack of all trades, though the idea wasn't to be able to use all tools really.
There are absolutely patrons that would fit a thief theme - e.g. the Archfey or the Fiend, although there are certainly other trickster patrons available - I'm not being exhaustive. Roleplay is what you make of it. My point is that Warlock 7/Conjurer 2 gets you the ability to reliably see the key and then copy it.
As for charisma classes, simply going for expertise in persuasion/deception from the rogue or feats or similar would work just as well in my opinion, and having a decent charisma score even as a rogue or a wizard isn't impossible so the charisma classes aren't really better at this than any others even if they might have more synergy (though, you could simply use spells from other classes without spells that require a dc as well, and having only a lets say 14 charisma wouldn't be a problem for the charisma classes either).
As for arcane trixter it was more about getting access to the particular abilities of their mage hand which is by far a lot better than anyone elses.
Arcane Tricksters are deliberately designed not to need keys. Once you build into one, you won't credibly need keys any more, as your ability to pick locks now works remotely and has a chance to work invisibly. There are many ways to solve this problem (e.g. a level 2 Artificer can infuse a Mystery Key, which can open any lock eventually, although the DMG suggests - and I agree - that the sanest way to handle it is making you take 2 minutes having it work automatically), but I think you're too sorely tempted by mixing multiple solutions together, even when you don't need to.
Well, first of all the conjuration thing just states you can make an object in the form of something you have seen, this doesn't state it's an exact copy and while it wouldn't matter for simple stuff like a chair or shovel, a key can vary from simple to very intricate and the later isn't implied that it could be made. Sure it doesn't say it couldn't, but considering it's a level 2 ability I think that's a fair asumption. You say it's not RAW, I say it doesn't mention making an exact copy of a particular object, doesn't mention copy or anything only that it takes the form of an object you have seen which if anything should mean it's a rough copy at best.
Just like you could probably make a pretty rough map of an area, but making a superior forgery copy of the famous mapmaker xontaron the traveler is probably not within the normal "create an object you've seen" limits, though with keen mind it would be (or at least more likely to be).
As for the water keys, yes I understand the concept but there's nothing in the spell implying you can move other objects and to push the insides of an intricate lock you would need the water to be able to put on quite some force to be able to make the insides move in the right position. Now, for a very simple lock I'd agree it would work but after the most basic of locks I don't think the spell implies this can be done. As it's worded I'd think it's beyond what it can do though since it doesn't have the ability to move ice, only water or freezing the water... And the water would simply go around the small pieces you'd want to move. As for freezing the whole lock and breaking it, it's not as easy as you would think... A frozen metal piece isn't going to just shatter easily just because there's a bit of water that froze around it, I live in the north, I've had lots of metal objects freeze without shattering into pieces when you break the ice. It's a cool effect just not very realistic at all. Note that I'm not saying it's impossible, just saying it's beyond what the spell says it does and especially considering the level of it. And considering there is a level 2 spell that would be even worse than shape water I'd say that while it's a cool house rule it's so far beyond RAI it can be.
And yes, roleplay is what you make of it, but some classes give of a certain feel and just ignoring it to get everything you want is fair if you think it's ok to do but it's not for everyone. Warlocks make a pact with a powerful being to get their power, and while yes it could fit into a thief theme, it's still a thief who made a pact with a very powerful being. It's not a bad theme, it's just another theme. Archfey trixters would be a probably fun concept for sure but once again it's a different concept with a more fey approach to it. Nothing wrong with that but not what I was going for.
While it might not be obvious by the original questions, I mean I understand it's easy to make someone that's really good at picking locks and can probably get through any locks.. There's arcane tricksters and just thieves in general and so on, I mean lockpicking is a thing, obviously you can become good at it. And while I agree with your comment on tricksters not needing keys, that goes more or less the same for regular rogues as well since you'd be able to do roughly the same thing just with expertise in thieves tools. It's still a roll though, using a key isn't. This part is however why I was considering if the Arcane trickster is a good option at all, it's a whole lot of focus on ranged mage hand stuff. Then again this could still be used to grab things you normally wouldn't be able to reach and conjuring a copy of a key still is sneakier than stealing the key.
The theme and concept is doing the whole thing without needing short or long rests to power up your spells, otherwise I'd just play a straight wizard or something and just teleport in.
As for thief, it's also party about bonus action opening locks and such, which again would kinda go against the whole making a key thing... On the other hand the use magic device ability later might fit thematically around being able to use some magic like this, still a long way to go... But the other uses of cunning action are still very good and would fit well with the character I think.
I guess I want the concept to be more along the lines of little effort but still getting the result... Not like playing it or being overpowered easily but in the sense that the character doesn't want to stand around for 2 minutes using a questionable key made with artificer infusions, or even stand around picking this intricate lock or casting a loud and annoying knock spell to get in, getting a lot of attention on the way.. But rather just wants to walk in there, bit stealthy perhaps, then just making a key and entering, then leaving. No fuss. That's the reason I want the level 2 conjurer ability I guess. The rest that I'd like is some stealth (not invisibility because it's easily broken and even so, unless you have stealth you're going to be heard if you're moving) but just having the skill is easily done through backgrounds. Cunning action is REALLY good and cool though and having this might be worth it just for the general feel of the character...
Im also warming to the idea that while going inside and getting something without fuss might be a thing, teleporting out wouldn't be so bad.
I'd like to make a little extra note. The mage hand may be invisible. And it may be able to do some thief like things but that does not mean that it cannot be detected doing them. Nothing it carries is invisible. The tools it would be using or that key you made would not be invisible just because the invisible mage hand is carrying it. There is as much art and thinking like a thief over trying to use magic to solve all your problems that can go into making that mage hand successful even if it is invisible. It is given the ability to do things and not itself be seen but it is not given any special advantages in doing those things. Which is something that needs to be kept in mind with the Arcane Trickster and pretty much most uses of magic to mimic the abilities of other classes, even when the characters also have those classes.
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So, is this just overkill? I'm thinking it would make for a fun character that could just make their own keys instead of breaking and entering with lockpicks and such...
But, since sneak attack isn't important (as in not a goal of the character even though it would certainly be useful)... Is a straight conjurer better? Just get stealth from background or similar.
And if rogue, which subclass? The thief? arcane trickster? It seems like part of the reason to use either of those would be for easier pickpocketing and so on, to sleight of hand the key instead of just conjuring a copy... I'm not sure, advice welcome :)
AT for sure, to steal a key, examine it, put it back, then create it later :)
Wizards don’t need stuff like stealth or Thieves' Tools since they can cast stuff like knock and invisibility. If you don’t honestly care about Sneak Attack, all that Expertise, a bajillian uses for their bonus actions, and having all of their features available all day everyday; then just go straight Wiz.
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Spellslots are very limited though and why cast Knock when you can create a copy of the key to open the door? Save knock for the truly hard treasures. Also, invisible or not you still need to roll stealth if you're sneaking past someone or they will know you are there automatically, plus any little spell would break the invisibility so only using it in specific situations is a good idea anyways. The goal wasn't to be able to do sneaky stuff once a day, it's to make a really really good thief. And the concept of keen mind and conjuration wizard for those really nice conjured copies of keys, or conjured lockpicks and such just seems like fun.
Also I never said anything about their bonus actions or expertise, I only mentioned I wouldn't care about sneak attack specifically, since the goal wouldn't be damage. But on the other hand you could get around expertise and such with other spells too... So maybe. I probably wouldn't care too much about high level spells either, so I don't know ;D Things like Locate object could be useful though.
The question is, how much should I go into one class :/
Bonus action hide is of course really effective in combination with invisibility and perhaps that invocation for unlimited disguise self too...
Probably need a good way to hide from scrying later too if I'm going to go around stealing a lot. So, few levels of spellcasting is probably good... Then again the thief subclass does get the ability to use almost any magic device so that would also work.
Yeah that's probably a pretty good idea tbh :)
And yet a thief could do the same thing by pickpocketing or palming a key, pressing it into a mold, and then returning the key to their pocket or other place they got it from. No magic required. Thieves have been doing this for a long long time already. This is one of the reasons there are candles in the burglar's pack. Soft Wax is good for copying the shape of keys for duplicates to be made later. No Magic Required.. However potential proficiency in certain other kinds of tools might be.
Even better use of the combo, the DMG poisons aren't considered magical and therefor able to be made with conjuration wizard. Thief/poisoner feat lets you apply them as a bonus action to make up for your meh sneak attack progression and will mean you do good single target damage for basically free. If you are willing to do poisoner feat then arcane trickster might be better for the invisible mage hand pickpocketing. I'd probably go Rogue 3/ Conjuration X for progression since your wizard casting even delayed 3 levels will make you more generally useful than the rogue features.
That takes a lot more time than using a few seconds to conjure up a copy on the fly though
Many of those spells take more than a few seconds as well. And it's more permanent than the couple that do just take a few seconds. Meaning the process doesn't have to be entirely repeated if you need to do it again for some reason.
You're kinda missing the point here being that a level 2 conjurer can conjure items with an action, they could conjure a copy of a key with just one action not many actions, not needing to go out and make the actual copy, they could do it on the fly, like I said. Much much more efficient and quicker than the thing you proposed. In addition it lasts for an hour, can be easily disposed of to ensure there's no proof and also has many more uses. While I don't disagree that it's a thing to do it like you proposed, a conjurer does it much faster which is the point of my thread and the theme of the character.
So, for instance, in the mid of a social gathering, pocketing the key, do a quick study, giving it back and then proceeding to walk away, making a copy, entering the closed of room and chest with the thing you wanted. A regular thief could do the same but most likely they would have to spend a lot more time doing it and probably had to come back another day.
You don't need to pocket the key, you just need to see it (and you don't need Keen Mind). You also won't need a key for many locks - you have access to the Shape Water cantrip and you can't run out of Conjured water.
If you want to do what you're describing, which is laying eyes on the key in a social gathering, you'll want to multiclass with a charisma class, for being good at socialising (and you won't need much or any intelligence other than the 13 for multiclassing a wizard, if you do it right and only go for spells that don't rely on saves or attacks). Probably your best bet is Warlock, due to the invocation Ghostly Gaze, which will let you simply lay eyes on the key if you're close enough. In fact, you might be better off looking at this approach as a Warlock with a Conjurer dip. You could also do it with bard - you can Conjure any tool in the PHB, and Jack of All Trades will make you half proficient in all of them at once - but most toolkits you can generally leave at home, so the ability to always have the tool you need on hand gets less useful as you gain wealth and the ability to simply buy tools (and Artificer+Bard does every tool at once better). Neither Warlock nor Bard will nerf your spell slot progression, unlike Arcane Trickster.
The thought for keen mind is basically a mix of being able to conjure exact copies for a longer period of time and to be honest a key only works if it's made in a specific way and I would expect the DM to force you to make a roll to remember how a specific intricate key looked, especially if you only had a quick glance. Most people would NOT be able to even draw a similar copy of a key just by a glance so conjuring one that would fit a specific lock isn't "obvious".
Also not sure how the shape water would help? Shaping water would not automatically mean you can use the water with any amount of force needed to push the right pins in the right place and a frozen key would easily snap so I don't think this would work except by any DM basically houseruling it would because they thought it was cool. The description of the spell doesn't imply at any point it could be made though.
A bard or warlock could probably work yes, but would have a very different feel. Especially the warlock would be harder to fit with the thief theme, sworn and beholden and all that.. Sure it works but by then the thief part is a bit secondary. A bit the same with bard, though I agree it would be a nice combination with jack of all trades, though the idea wasn't to be able to use all tools really.
As for charisma classes, simply going for expertise in persuasion/deception from the rogue or feats or similar would work just as well in my opinion, and having a decent charisma score even as a rogue or a wizard isn't impossible so the charisma classes aren't really better at this than any others even if they might have more synergy (though, you could simply use spells from other classes without spells that require a dc as well, and having only a lets say 14 charisma wouldn't be a problem for the charisma classes either).
As for arcane trixter it was more about getting access to the particular abilities of their mage hand which is by far a lot better than anyone elses.
Arcane Tricksters are deliberately designed not to need keys. Once you build into one, you won't credibly need keys any more, as your ability to pick locks now works remotely and has a chance to work invisibly. There are many ways to solve this problem (e.g. a level 2 Artificer can infuse a Mystery Key, which can open any lock eventually, although the DMG suggests - and I agree - that the sanest way to handle it is making you take 2 minutes having it work automatically), but I think you're too sorely tempted by mixing multiple solutions together, even when you don't need to.
Well, first of all the conjuration thing just states you can make an object in the form of something you have seen, this doesn't state it's an exact copy and while it wouldn't matter for simple stuff like a chair or shovel, a key can vary from simple to very intricate and the later isn't implied that it could be made. Sure it doesn't say it couldn't, but considering it's a level 2 ability I think that's a fair asumption. You say it's not RAW, I say it doesn't mention making an exact copy of a particular object, doesn't mention copy or anything only that it takes the form of an object you have seen which if anything should mean it's a rough copy at best.
Just like you could probably make a pretty rough map of an area, but making a superior forgery copy of the famous mapmaker xontaron the traveler is probably not within the normal "create an object you've seen" limits, though with keen mind it would be (or at least more likely to be).
As for the water keys, yes I understand the concept but there's nothing in the spell implying you can move other objects and to push the insides of an intricate lock you would need the water to be able to put on quite some force to be able to make the insides move in the right position. Now, for a very simple lock I'd agree it would work but after the most basic of locks I don't think the spell implies this can be done. As it's worded I'd think it's beyond what it can do though since it doesn't have the ability to move ice, only water or freezing the water... And the water would simply go around the small pieces you'd want to move.
As for freezing the whole lock and breaking it, it's not as easy as you would think... A frozen metal piece isn't going to just shatter easily just because there's a bit of water that froze around it, I live in the north, I've had lots of metal objects freeze without shattering into pieces when you break the ice. It's a cool effect just not very realistic at all.
Note that I'm not saying it's impossible, just saying it's beyond what the spell says it does and especially considering the level of it. And considering there is a level 2 spell that would be even worse than shape water I'd say that while it's a cool house rule it's so far beyond RAI it can be.
And yes, roleplay is what you make of it, but some classes give of a certain feel and just ignoring it to get everything you want is fair if you think it's ok to do but it's not for everyone. Warlocks make a pact with a powerful being to get their power, and while yes it could fit into a thief theme, it's still a thief who made a pact with a very powerful being. It's not a bad theme, it's just another theme. Archfey trixters would be a probably fun concept for sure but once again it's a different concept with a more fey approach to it. Nothing wrong with that but not what I was going for.
While it might not be obvious by the original questions, I mean I understand it's easy to make someone that's really good at picking locks and can probably get through any locks.. There's arcane tricksters and just thieves in general and so on, I mean lockpicking is a thing, obviously you can become good at it. And while I agree with your comment on tricksters not needing keys, that goes more or less the same for regular rogues as well since you'd be able to do roughly the same thing just with expertise in thieves tools. It's still a roll though, using a key isn't. This part is however why I was considering if the Arcane trickster is a good option at all, it's a whole lot of focus on ranged mage hand stuff. Then again this could still be used to grab things you normally wouldn't be able to reach and conjuring a copy of a key still is sneakier than stealing the key.
The theme and concept is doing the whole thing without needing short or long rests to power up your spells, otherwise I'd just play a straight wizard or something and just teleport in.
As for thief, it's also party about bonus action opening locks and such, which again would kinda go against the whole making a key thing... On the other hand the use magic device ability later might fit thematically around being able to use some magic like this, still a long way to go... But the other uses of cunning action are still very good and would fit well with the character I think.
I guess I want the concept to be more along the lines of little effort but still getting the result... Not like playing it or being overpowered easily but in the sense that the character doesn't want to stand around for 2 minutes using a questionable key made with artificer infusions, or even stand around picking this intricate lock or casting a loud and annoying knock spell to get in, getting a lot of attention on the way.. But rather just wants to walk in there, bit stealthy perhaps, then just making a key and entering, then leaving. No fuss. That's the reason I want the level 2 conjurer ability I guess.
The rest that I'd like is some stealth (not invisibility because it's easily broken and even so, unless you have stealth you're going to be heard if you're moving) but just having the skill is easily done through backgrounds. Cunning action is REALLY good and cool though and having this might be worth it just for the general feel of the character...
Im also warming to the idea that while going inside and getting something without fuss might be a thing, teleporting out wouldn't be so bad.
I'd like to make a little extra note. The mage hand may be invisible. And it may be able to do some thief like things but that does not mean that it cannot be detected doing them. Nothing it carries is invisible. The tools it would be using or that key you made would not be invisible just because the invisible mage hand is carrying it. There is as much art and thinking like a thief over trying to use magic to solve all your problems that can go into making that mage hand successful even if it is invisible. It is given the ability to do things and not itself be seen but it is not given any special advantages in doing those things. Which is something that needs to be kept in mind with the Arcane Trickster and pretty much most uses of magic to mimic the abilities of other classes, even when the characters also have those classes.