It's a fighter/rogue Shield Bash build. The purpose is to knock the opponent prone during combat and destroy the target with advantage and sneak attacks. Went to level 3 champion for a little Crit Fishing.
For those with a keen eye the additional Observant Feat is due to my DM allowing a free feat at level 1 that's intrigue/exploration/social based and not directly combat based. I was aiming for a broken combat character and I think I got there for the most part. The only other thing I could think of to give him would be the sentinel feat so that way anyone running away gets 0 movement when I opportunity attack them.
Officially, the bonus action from Shield Master has to come after the Attack action. So right off the bat the build only works if your DM bends the rules a little.
The other big problem is that monsters can be immune to the prone condition; you've given up too many Sneak Attack dice for a trick that won't work on everyone. I don't have the time to do the math right now but I'm also fairly sure the extra crit on 19s isn't making up for that either. I'd have stopped at Fighter 1.
Charger's a waste of an ASI too. You'd be better off with the extra STR point.
Officially, the bonus action from Shield Master has to come after the Attack action. So right off the bat the build only works if your DM bends the rules a little.
The other big problem is that monsters can be immune to the prone condition; you've given up too many Sneak Attack dice for a trick that won't work on everyone. I don't have the time to do the math right now but I'm also fairly sure the extra crit on 19s isn't making up for that either. I'd have stopped at Fighter 1.
Charger's a waste of an ASI too. You'd be better off with the extra STR point.
Alright, Swapped out charger for STR ASI. I agree that this was probably a stronger move than the charger feat. I was initially looking at how charger gives you bonus damage without even considering the potential for more damage if I have a better chance at guaranteeing that the enemy is prone.
Even with the bonus action coming after the standard action, this would still allow for party members that act before the enemy to have advantage and do some extra damage as well. That being said with the fighter's action surge, the bonus action can come before the surge and allow for advantage attack rolls or another shove attempt if the enemy didn't go down the first time.
I was thinking with Swashbuckler that I didn't need advantage to sneak attack which was really cool. Then if they are prone, that's when I get advantage on the attack and therein a better chance to crit. Since my table plays with flanking rules (advantage if enemy is flanked) I felt like this was a good way to go.
To your point about some enemies being immune to the prone condition, that's entirely dependent on the DM and the encounters that they want to run, or the campaign setting and the creatures available to fight. I believe the shove attempt works on creatures that are category size Large or smaller so this will surely work on a large number of enemies.
Going Rogue the rest of the way would alleviate some of the concern with the sneak attack damage being weak. Definitely not as strong as a full Rogue, but could hold their own with a few of the larger hit die from the fighter, the ability to grant a small self heal, action surge, and being able to wear heavier armor + shields.
Truth be told this idea was an attempt at recreating a Pathfinder character that could take opportunity attacks if an enemy stood up from prone. It would provoke an attack of opportunity and then you would use a trip attack or whatever to make them fall down again. The enemy would waste their turn taking more damage and then when it became your turn again you would make sure the enemy was on the ground once more if they weren't already and then you could potentially coup de gras the enemy.
Broken as all get out in Pathfinder, but in 5E you just don't get those types of feats or abilities that allow for that kind of interaction in combat.
Even with the bonus action coming after the standard action, this would still allow for party members that act before the enemy to have advantage and do some extra damage as well. That being said with the fighter's action surge, the bonus action can come before the surge and allow for advantage attack rolls or another shove attempt if the enemy didn't go down the first time.
That's true, but with Action Surge only being once per short rest, I still think you'd be better off going 1 Fighter/X Rogue and just taking the extra sneak attack dice. (X Fighter/1 Rogue would also work too for Expertise, but I assume you're more interested in the Rogue side, and you could always take the Prodigy feat instead.)
Since my table plays with flanking rules (advantage if enemy is flanked) I felt like this was a good way to go.
If you have a constant source of advantage like this, you can also consider going elf or half-elf for Elven Accuracy.
To your point about some enemies being immune to the prone condition, that's entirely dependent on the DM and the encounters that they want to run, or the campaign setting and the creatures available to fight. I believe the shove attempt works on creatures that are category size Large or smaller so this will surely work on a large number of enemies.
Keep in mind almost everything that flies and can hover is immune to being prone (e.g. flameskulls, ghosts, beholders...). I think it's likely you'll fight something like that at some point, regardless of DM.
Going Rogue the rest of the way would alleviate some of the concern with the sneak attack damage being weak. Definitely not as strong as a full Rogue, but could hold their own with a few of the larger hit die from the fighter, the ability to grant a small self heal, action surge, and being able to wear heavier armor + shields.
You're only losing 3 max HP and Second Wind healing by sticking to Fighter 1 compared to Fighter 4. You'll also be able to reach important Rogue features like Uncanny Dodge, Evasion, and Reliable Talent sooner. The extra 1d6 or 2d6 Sneak Attack damage (depending on your level) you get will quickly add up to more than Action Surge since you don't have Extra Attack.
Look at this build ddb.ac/characters/4298110/FtCnLu.
Your tactic is to shove to get advantage. Next step is to grapple, so they can’t stand up without first breaking the grapple.
What I was thinking with this build:
- Bugbear. You will be able to grapple your victims at 10 feet reach. On top of that, you count as Large to carry an lift. Also, when you attack an enemy that is surprised, you deal an extra 2d6 per attack.
-Battlemaster instead of champion. That way you can use trip, disarm and riposte maneuvers. Trip them with the first attack (maybe its a surprise attack?), then grapple with the second. When they try to attack you back with disadvantage and miss, you can riposte the attack with advantage and deal sneak attack damage. Next turn you can make your attack with advantage, deal sneak attack damage, and disarm them. They are now on a tough spot.
-Thief instead of swashbuckler. I thought of the thief so you can attack your victim and use the bonus action to steal from them, ***. You could use mastermind too, so you could use the help action to give advantage against another target to your friends. There are other good options, scout, assassin (go well with bugbear). I think swashbuckler is the one bringing the least to the build.
So, basically, you trip or shove, grapple, use your bonus action to move then around the battlefield to a better location. Riposte when they miss, use your reaction to pump your ac with defensive duelist if they hit, Next turn you make to attacks with advantage and can use your bonus action do move them more, steal what they have, don’t know.
https://ddb.ac/characters/3757743/e6cZ0E
TL;DR
It's a fighter/rogue Shield Bash build. The purpose is to knock the opponent prone during combat and destroy the target with advantage and sneak attacks. Went to level 3 champion for a little Crit Fishing.
For those with a keen eye the additional Observant Feat is due to my DM allowing a free feat at level 1 that's intrigue/exploration/social based and not directly combat based. I was aiming for a broken combat character and I think I got there for the most part. The only other thing I could think of to give him would be the sentinel feat so that way anyone running away gets 0 movement when I opportunity attack them.
It's ok. Not bad, not great either.
Officially, the bonus action from Shield Master has to come after the Attack action. So right off the bat the build only works if your DM bends the rules a little.
The other big problem is that monsters can be immune to the prone condition; you've given up too many Sneak Attack dice for a trick that won't work on everyone. I don't have the time to do the math right now but I'm also fairly sure the extra crit on 19s isn't making up for that either. I'd have stopped at Fighter 1.
Charger's a waste of an ASI too. You'd be better off with the extra STR point.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
Alright, Swapped out charger for STR ASI. I agree that this was probably a stronger move than the charger feat. I was initially looking at how charger gives you bonus damage without even considering the potential for more damage if I have a better chance at guaranteeing that the enemy is prone.
Even with the bonus action coming after the standard action, this would still allow for party members that act before the enemy to have advantage and do some extra damage as well. That being said with the fighter's action surge, the bonus action can come before the surge and allow for advantage attack rolls or another shove attempt if the enemy didn't go down the first time.
I was thinking with Swashbuckler that I didn't need advantage to sneak attack which was really cool. Then if they are prone, that's when I get advantage on the attack and therein a better chance to crit. Since my table plays with flanking rules (advantage if enemy is flanked) I felt like this was a good way to go.
To your point about some enemies being immune to the prone condition, that's entirely dependent on the DM and the encounters that they want to run, or the campaign setting and the creatures available to fight. I believe the shove attempt works on creatures that are category size Large or smaller so this will surely work on a large number of enemies.
Going Rogue the rest of the way would alleviate some of the concern with the sneak attack damage being weak. Definitely not as strong as a full Rogue, but could hold their own with a few of the larger hit die from the fighter, the ability to grant a small self heal, action surge, and being able to wear heavier armor + shields.
Truth be told this idea was an attempt at recreating a Pathfinder character that could take opportunity attacks if an enemy stood up from prone. It would provoke an attack of opportunity and then you would use a trip attack or whatever to make them fall down again. The enemy would waste their turn taking more damage and then when it became your turn again you would make sure the enemy was on the ground once more if they weren't already and then you could potentially coup de gras the enemy.
Broken as all get out in Pathfinder, but in 5E you just don't get those types of feats or abilities that allow for that kind of interaction in combat.
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Moderatorhttps://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/08/19/can-i-attack-shield-master-shove-attack/
If you get the extra attack feature, you can attack, shove, sneak attack.
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That's true, but with Action Surge only being once per short rest, I still think you'd be better off going 1 Fighter/X Rogue and just taking the extra sneak attack dice. (X Fighter/1 Rogue would also work too for Expertise, but I assume you're more interested in the Rogue side, and you could always take the Prodigy feat instead.)
If you have a constant source of advantage like this, you can also consider going elf or half-elf for Elven Accuracy.
Keep in mind almost everything that flies and can hover is immune to being prone (e.g. flameskulls, ghosts, beholders...). I think it's likely you'll fight something like that at some point, regardless of DM.
You're only losing 3 max HP and Second Wind healing by sticking to Fighter 1 compared to Fighter 4. You'll also be able to reach important Rogue features like Uncanny Dodge, Evasion, and Reliable Talent sooner. The extra 1d6 or 2d6 Sneak Attack damage (depending on your level) you get will quickly add up to more than Action Surge since you don't have Extra Attack.
Several Sage Advice answers were revised in August 2017, including one that used to state a bonus action can come before its pre-requisite (a ruling that honestly never made sense to me.) The ruling on Shield Master was reversed for the same reason, and Jeremy also clarified that if an action is a pre-requisite for something, that means the whole action.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
I think it’s a waste of resources. A free feat at lvl 1 is very powerful.
Look at this build ddb.ac/characters/4298110/FtCnLu.
Your tactic is to shove to get advantage. Next step is to grapple, so they can’t stand up without first breaking the grapple.
What I was thinking with this build:
- Bugbear. You will be able to grapple your victims at 10 feet reach. On top of that, you count as Large to carry an lift. Also, when you attack an enemy that is surprised, you deal an extra 2d6 per attack.
-Battlemaster instead of champion. That way you can use trip, disarm and riposte maneuvers. Trip them with the first attack (maybe its a surprise attack?), then grapple with the second. When they try to attack you back with disadvantage and miss, you can riposte the attack with advantage and deal sneak attack damage. Next turn you can make your attack with advantage, deal sneak attack damage, and disarm them. They are now on a tough spot.
-Thief instead of swashbuckler. I thought of the thief so you can attack your victim and use the bonus action to steal from them, ***. You could use mastermind too, so you could use the help action to give advantage against another target to your friends. There are other good options, scout, assassin (go well with bugbear). I think swashbuckler is the one bringing the least to the build.
So, basically, you trip or shove, grapple, use your bonus action to move then around the battlefield to a better location. Riposte when they miss, use your reaction to pump your ac with defensive duelist if they hit, Next turn you make to attacks with advantage and can use your bonus action do move them more, steal what they have, don’t know.
Also, consider grappling them and throwing them off a cliff or something.