(my first character) So we did a home brew roll rules for stats but the dm walked me through and atm ny stats look like 20 str 15 dex 14 con 13 int 16 wis and 18 cha my character is a tiefling Draconic sorcerer who was raised by dragons and turns out to be be the actual son of one I was thinking barbarian until lv 3 and taking path of the beast flavored for his draconic lineage but a lot of forums and so on are saying it’s a bad mix and idk what to do exactly any ideas??
Barb is not a great mix with spellcasting classes because Barb features are heavily reliant on the "Rage" feature - which blocks the ability to cast spells.
You can try Fighter or Paladin if you want to mix in some martials. The Paladin's smite feature can be pretty big with Sorcerer because you get more spell slots to burn and better choices of spells, like Hold Person (which lets you auto-crit your smites).
Alternatively, you can try Warlock since that is also a Cha based caster. You could try Hexblade to still get a little sword-happy but still be reliant on spells.
Your Wis is decent so you can combo with something like Cleric for healing. If you're lightning ancestry as dragon then a Tempest cleric would be spiffy. Clerics have a lot of buffs so you won't need to focus on Wis as there won't be saves/attacks, and you can twin or distance them using sorc points (distant spell + cure wounds is quite handy).
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It's going to depend on what you want your character to do and also how high are you expecting to get. If you're aiming for end game, then staying full Sorc may be better to maintain spell slot progression, get better spells and aim for that sweet, sweet Wish spell. But that's if you're interested in spellcasting. If you're not, then.. Well starting Sorc kinda nerfed you a bit, but Pal/Fighter would be better.
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Barbarian Rage doesn't just block casting spells, it also blocks concentrating on them. So yeah, it's a very limiting multiclass choice with spellcasting classes, though not entirely impossible if you only choose duration spells that don't require concentration. Here's a list of Sorcerer cantrips & 1st-level spells that fit the qualification:
Cantrips: Mage Hand and Minor Illusion last for a minute. Light lasts for an hour, and some of the effects of Prestidigitation, Controls Flames, Mold Earth, and Shape Water can also last for up to an hour. There's also Chill Touch, but that only lasts a round
(Booming Blade or Green-Flame Blade also last a round, but you make the attack as part of the spell-casting, so can't get Rage Bonus with it. Blade Ward also lasts a round, but it's literally the same protection as Rage but shorter and using your action, so not a good choice.)
1st-level: Grease, Jump, and Sleep last for a minute. Charm Person, Comprehend Languages, Disguise Self, and False Life last for an hour. Mage Armor lasts for 8 hours, but it's redundant with your Draconic armoring, and it won't stack with your Unarmored Defense. (edit: had forgotten you were Draconic sorcerer)
(technically Feather Fall lasts for a minute concentration-free, but that's a reaction spell so not as much something to lay down before charging in)
2nd-level: Blindness/Deafness, Darkvision, Mirror Image, See Invisibility
3rd-level: Blink, Daylight, Tongues, Water Breathing, Water Walk
4th-level: Charm Monster, Fire Shield
5th-level: Creation, Seeming, Teleportation Circle
6th-level: Mass Suggestion, True Seeing
7th-level: Crown of Stars, Etherealness
There are a few more Sorcerer non-concentration duration spells at higher level, like 2nd-level Mirror Image, Darkvision, and See Invisibility, but as you can see they mainly serve to buff you a bit like the others. The better battlefield-control & duration-damage spells require concentration. (edit: added ALL of the relevant spells to show how much/little there is to work with)
I looked this stuff up since a previous campaign had a Barbarian Cleric. A Sorcerer Barbarian might work out a little better than that, and would definitely be a fun concept! But generally I'd only recommend a Barbarian spellcaster if you want to play on Hard Mode.
I've played a Sorcerer with a few levels in Barbarian for a "loss of control" mechanic, and while it is fun it's definitely not very optimal, so keep that in mind if yours is a campaign that has a lot of tough fights. In my case it was 100% a character/story choice, and I went full Berserker as Frenzied Rage was basically the entire point; it was for being backed into a corner or the character being pushed to the point they fully lose control for a time.
As bonnkansan says you can build around Rage if you want to; there are some sorcerer spells with good durations and no concentration required.
In terms of optimal builds though Cyb3rM1nd's picks are on the money; it really depends what exactly you're trying to represent for your draconic lineage. Even white dragons (the most feral of the bunch) aren't necessarily comparable to Barbarians as dragons are extremely intelligent, calculating adversaries, they can be angered, sure, but they shouldn't really go into a blind uncontrollable rage that potentially puts them at risk. If your goal is strength and resilience then I'd do either Fighter, maybe for unarmed fighting style (your "claws"), or Warlock if you don't mind weapon use (as dragons do use them when in humanoid form, so why shouldn't you?).
Alternatively, I play in a group that allows "claws" as a homebrew "weapon"; basically any character that has twin daggers can swap them for "claws" which are the same but cannot be thrown or dropped, and don't need to be drawn (you just need an empty hand to use each set). Nearly every class can start with two daggers from starting equipment and they're not expensive for a gold start, this then lets you have claws on a race that doesn't normally have them, and can use two-weapon fighting if you want to. If your DM allows, you could still mix in Fighter but take the two-weapon fighting style in that case?
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Barbarian Rage doesn't just block casting spells, it also blocks concentrating on them. So yeah, it's a very limiting multiclass choice with spellcasting classes, though not entirely impossible if you only choose duration spells that don't require concentration. Here's a list of Sorcerer cantrips & 1st-level spells that fit the qualification:
Cantrips: Mage Hand and Minor Illusion last for a minute. Light lasts for an hour, and some of the effects of Prestidigitation, Controls Flames, Mold Earth, and Shape Water can also last for up to an hour. There's also Chill Touch, but that only lasts a round
(Booming Blade or Green-Flame Blade also last a round, but you make the attack as part of the spell-casting, so can't get Rage Bonus with it. Blade Ward also lasts a round, but it's literally the same protection as Rage but shorter and using your action, so not a good choice.)
1st-level: Grease, Jump, and Sleep last for a minute. Charm Person, Comprehend Languages, Disguise Self, and False Life last for an hour. Mage Armor lasts for 8 hours, but it's redundant with your Draconic armoring, and it won't stack with your Unarmored Defense. (edit: had forgotten you were Draconic sorcerer)
(technically Feather Fall lasts for a minute concentration-free, but that's a reaction spell so not as much something to lay down before charging in)
There are a few more Sorcerer non-concentration duration spells at higher level, like 2nd-level Mirror Image, Darkvision, and See Invisibility, but as you can see they mainly serve to buff you a bit like the others. The better battlefield-control & duration-damage spells require concentration.
I looked this stuff up since a previous campaign had a Barbarian Cleric. A Sorcerer Barbarian might work out a little better than that, and would definitely be a fun concept! But generally I'd only recommend a Barbarian spellcaster if you want to play on Hard Mode.
This is incorrect. Taken from the PHB
If you are able to cast spells, you can’t cast them or concentrate on them while raging.
If you are able to actually have a non-concentration spell happen before raging that might work but that tends to be features rather than spells
Barb is probably the most iffy multi class you have for a sorcerer. The key features of both disallow features of the other. Sure it can work if story dictates. But it isn’t going to be great imho. It depends what your focus is
Barbarian Rage doesn't just block casting spells, it also blocks concentrating on them. So yeah, it's a very limiting multiclass choice with spellcasting classes, though not entirely impossible if you only choose duration spells that don't require concentration. Here's a list of Sorcerer cantrips & 1st-level spells that fit the qualification:
Cantrips: Mage Hand and Minor Illusion last for a minute. Light lasts for an hour, and some of the effects of Prestidigitation, Controls Flames, Mold Earth, and Shape Water can also last for up to an hour. There's also Chill Touch, but that only lasts a round
(Booming Blade or Green-Flame Blade also last a round, but you make the attack as part of the spell-casting, so can't get Rage Bonus with it. Blade Ward also lasts a round, but it's literally the same protection as Rage but shorter and using your action, so not a good choice.)
1st-level: Grease, Jump, and Sleep last for a minute. Charm Person, Comprehend Languages, Disguise Self, and False Life last for an hour. Mage Armor lasts for 8 hours, but it's redundant with your Draconic armoring, and it won't stack with your Unarmored Defense. (edit: had forgotten you were Draconic sorcerer)
(technically Feather Fall lasts for a minute concentration-free, but that's a reaction spell so not as much something to lay down before charging in)
There are a few more Sorcerer non-concentration duration spells at higher level, like 2nd-level Mirror Image, Darkvision, and See Invisibility, but as you can see they mainly serve to buff you a bit like the others. The better battlefield-control & duration-damage spells require concentration.
I looked this stuff up since a previous campaign had a Barbarian Cleric. A Sorcerer Barbarian might work out a little better than that, and would definitely be a fun concept! But generally I'd only recommend a Barbarian spellcaster if you want to play on Hard Mode.
This is incorrect. Taken from the PHB
If you are able to cast spells, you can’t cast them or concentrate on them while raging.
If you are able to actually have a non-concentration spell happen before raging that might work but that tends to be features rather than spells
Barb is probably the most iffy multi class you have for a sorcerer. The key features of both disallow features of the other. Sure it can work if story dictates. But it isn’t going to be great imho. It depends what your focus is
?? What exactly was incorrect? I listed the small set of Sorcerer non-concentration spells. I wasn't implying that it was a *good* multiclass combination, just less problematic than Barb with Cleric? I don't think we're actually in disagreement here?
Barbarian Rage doesn't just block casting spells, it also blocks concentrating on them. So yeah, it's a very limiting multiclass choice with spellcasting classes, though not entirely impossible if you only choose duration spells that don't require concentration. Here's a list of Sorcerer cantrips & 1st-level spells that fit the qualification:
Cantrips: Mage Hand and Minor Illusion last for a minute. Light lasts for an hour, and some of the effects of Prestidigitation, Controls Flames, Mold Earth, and Shape Water can also last for up to an hour. There's also Chill Touch, but that only lasts a round
(Booming Blade or Green-Flame Blade also last a round, but you make the attack as part of the spell-casting, so can't get Rage Bonus with it. Blade Ward also lasts a round, but it's literally the same protection as Rage but shorter and using your action, so not a good choice.)
1st-level: Grease, Jump, and Sleep last for a minute. Charm Person, Comprehend Languages, Disguise Self, and False Life last for an hour. Mage Armor lasts for 8 hours, but it's redundant with your Draconic armoring, and it won't stack with your Unarmored Defense. (edit: had forgotten you were Draconic sorcerer)
(technically Feather Fall lasts for a minute concentration-free, but that's a reaction spell so not as much something to lay down before charging in)
There are a few more Sorcerer non-concentration duration spells at higher level, like 2nd-level Mirror Image, Darkvision, and See Invisibility, but as you can see they mainly serve to buff you a bit like the others. The better battlefield-control & duration-damage spells require concentration.
I looked this stuff up since a previous campaign had a Barbarian Cleric. A Sorcerer Barbarian might work out a little better than that, and would definitely be a fun concept! But generally I'd only recommend a Barbarian spellcaster if you want to play on Hard Mode.
This is incorrect. Taken from the PHB
If you are able to cast spells, you can’t cast them or concentrate on them while raging.
If you are able to actually have a non-concentration spell happen before raging that might work but that tends to be features rather than spells
Barb is probably the most iffy multi class you have for a sorcerer. The key features of both disallow features of the other. Sure it can work if story dictates. But it isn’t going to be great imho. It depends what your focus is
?? What exactly was incorrect? I listed the small set of Sorcerer non-concentration spells. I wasn't implying that it was a *good* multiclass combination, just less problematic than Barb with Cleric? I don't think we're actually in disagreement here?
Specifically that you can't cast spells whilst raging.
Barbarian Rage doesn't just block casting spells, it also blocks concentrating on them. So yeah, it's a very limiting multiclass choice with spellcasting classes, though not entirely impossible if you only choose duration spells that don't require concentration. Here's a list of Sorcerer cantrips & 1st-level spells that fit the qualification:
Cantrips: Mage Hand and Minor Illusion last for a minute. Light lasts for an hour, and some of the effects of Prestidigitation, Controls Flames, Mold Earth, and Shape Water can also last for up to an hour. There's also Chill Touch, but that only lasts a round
(Booming Blade or Green-Flame Blade also last a round, but you make the attack as part of the spell-casting, so can't get Rage Bonus with it. Blade Ward also lasts a round, but it's literally the same protection as Rage but shorter and using your action, so not a good choice.)
1st-level: Grease, Jump, and Sleep last for a minute. Charm Person, Comprehend Languages, Disguise Self, and False Life last for an hour. Mage Armor lasts for 8 hours, but it's redundant with your Draconic armoring, and it won't stack with your Unarmored Defense. (edit: had forgotten you were Draconic sorcerer)
(technically Feather Fall lasts for a minute concentration-free, but that's a reaction spell so not as much something to lay down before charging in)
There are a few more Sorcerer non-concentration duration spells at higher level, like 2nd-level Mirror Image, Darkvision, and See Invisibility, but as you can see they mainly serve to buff you a bit like the others. The better battlefield-control & duration-damage spells require concentration.
I looked this stuff up since a previous campaign had a Barbarian Cleric. A Sorcerer Barbarian might work out a little better than that, and would definitely be a fun concept! But generally I'd only recommend a Barbarian spellcaster if you want to play on Hard Mode.
This is incorrect. Taken from the PHB
If you are able to cast spells, you can’t cast them or concentrate on them while raging.
If you are able to actually have a non-concentration spell happen before raging that might work but that tends to be features rather than spells
Barb is probably the most iffy multi class you have for a sorcerer. The key features of both disallow features of the other. Sure it can work if story dictates. But it isn’t going to be great imho. It depends what your focus is
?? What exactly was incorrect? I listed the small set of Sorcerer non-concentration spells. I wasn't implying that it was a *good* multiclass combination, just less problematic than Barb with Cleric? I don't think we're actually in disagreement here?
Specifically that you can't cast spells whilst raging.
But that's correct.
You can't.
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I believe they were listing spells one could cast that would persist after the caster enters their Rage post-casting.
Yes, that's exactly what I was doing. Heck, I'll go ahead and add the tiny number of spells above 2nd-level to that post I made.
Edit: Done. And even if the OP decides to move away from use of Rage altogether, Reckless Attack and Danger Sense don't require Rage so they will still be handy. Unarmored Movement won't stack with the armoring from Draconic Resilience, though. I think it can still be a fun concept to play as, with interesting character progression as the Sorcery gets unlocked! But it definitely won't synchronize terribly well.
I believe they were listing spells one could cast that would persist after the caster enters their Rage post-casting.
Yes, that's exactly what I was doing. Heck, I'll go ahead and add the tiny number of spells above 2nd-level to that post I made.
It may have been a typo but when i wrote that post it read that you COULD cast spells. Hence the clarification. From memory it said you can't concentrate but COULD cast spells and that was the bit I had a thing with. It could very well have been a typo that was fixed when i was posting it.
I believe they were listing spells one could cast that would persist after the caster enters their Rage post-casting.
Yes, that's exactly what I was doing. Heck, I'll go ahead and add the tiny number of spells above 2nd-level to that post I made.
It may have been a typo but when i wrote that post it read that you COULD cast spells. Hence the clarification. From memory it said you can't concentrate but COULD cast spells and that was the bit I had a thing with. It could very well have been a typo that was fixed when i was posting it.
The quoted parts wouldn't be any different, so it wasn't a typo. But the first line was worded somewhat long-windedly I'll admit, so I understand if it got read in a way I didn't mean. Anyway, we're not in disagreement on the challenge of this multiclass!
I believe they were listing spells one could cast that would persist after the caster enters their Rage post-casting.
Yes, that's exactly what I was doing. Heck, I'll go ahead and add the tiny number of spells above 2nd-level to that post I made.
It may have been a typo but when i wrote that post it read that you COULD cast spells. Hence the clarification. From memory it said you can't concentrate but COULD cast spells and that was the bit I had a thing with. It could very well have been a typo that was fixed when i was posting it.
The quoted parts wouldn't be any different, so it wasn't a typo. But the first line was worded somewhat long-windedly I'll admit, so I understand if it got read in a way I didn't mean. Anyway, we're not in disagreement on the challenge of this multiclass!
If that is the case that is fair enough. If I read it wrong that is on me and I apologise for that. My only challenge was the whole "Can't cast spells whilst raging" part. The multi-class is a tough one to make work.
(my first character) So we did a home brew roll rules for stats but the dm walked me through and atm ny stats look like 20 str 15 dex 14 con 13 int 16 wis and 18 cha my character is a tiefling Draconic sorcerer who was raised by dragons and turns out to be be the actual son of one I was thinking barbarian until lv 3 and taking path of the beast flavored for his draconic lineage but a lot of forums and so on are saying it’s a bad mix and idk what to do exactly any ideas??
Barb is not a great mix with spellcasting classes because Barb features are heavily reliant on the "Rage" feature - which blocks the ability to cast spells.
You can try Fighter or Paladin if you want to mix in some martials. The Paladin's smite feature can be pretty big with Sorcerer because you get more spell slots to burn and better choices of spells, like Hold Person (which lets you auto-crit your smites).
Alternatively, you can try Warlock since that is also a Cha based caster. You could try Hexblade to still get a little sword-happy but still be reliant on spells.
Your Wis is decent so you can combo with something like Cleric for healing. If you're lightning ancestry as dragon then a Tempest cleric would be spiffy. Clerics have a lot of buffs so you won't need to focus on Wis as there won't be saves/attacks, and you can twin or distance them using sorc points (distant spell + cure wounds is quite handy).
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It's going to depend on what you want your character to do and also how high are you expecting to get. If you're aiming for end game, then staying full Sorc may be better to maintain spell slot progression, get better spells and aim for that sweet, sweet Wish spell. But that's if you're interested in spellcasting. If you're not, then.. Well starting Sorc kinda nerfed you a bit, but Pal/Fighter would be better.
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Barbarian Rage doesn't just block casting spells, it also blocks concentrating on them. So yeah, it's a very limiting multiclass choice with spellcasting classes, though not entirely impossible if you only choose duration spells that don't require concentration. Here's a list of Sorcerer cantrips & 1st-level spells that fit the qualification:
Cantrips: Mage Hand and Minor Illusion last for a minute. Light lasts for an hour, and some of the effects of Prestidigitation, Controls Flames, Mold Earth, and Shape Water can also last for up to an hour. There's also Chill Touch, but that only lasts a round
(Booming Blade or Green-Flame Blade also last a round, but you make the attack as part of the spell-casting, so can't get Rage Bonus with it. Blade Ward also lasts a round, but it's literally the same protection as Rage but shorter and using your action, so not a good choice.)
1st-level: Grease, Jump, and Sleep last for a minute. Charm Person, Comprehend Languages, Disguise Self, and False Life last for an hour. Mage Armor lasts for 8 hours, but it's redundant with your Draconic armoring, and it won't stack with your Unarmored Defense. (edit: had forgotten you were Draconic sorcerer)
(technically Feather Fall lasts for a minute concentration-free, but that's a reaction spell so not as much something to lay down before charging in)
2nd-level: Blindness/Deafness, Darkvision, Mirror Image, See Invisibility
3rd-level: Blink, Daylight, Tongues, Water Breathing, Water Walk
4th-level: Charm Monster, Fire Shield
5th-level: Creation, Seeming, Teleportation Circle
6th-level: Mass Suggestion, True Seeing
7th-level: Crown of Stars, Etherealness
There are a few more Sorcerer non-concentration duration spells at higher level, like 2nd-level Mirror Image, Darkvision, and See Invisibility, but as you can see they mainly serve to buff you a bit like the others. The better battlefield-control & duration-damage spells require concentration. (edit: added ALL of the relevant spells to show how much/little there is to work with)
I looked this stuff up since a previous campaign had a Barbarian Cleric. A Sorcerer Barbarian might work out a little better than that, and would definitely be a fun concept! But generally I'd only recommend a Barbarian spellcaster if you want to play on Hard Mode.
I've played a Sorcerer with a few levels in Barbarian for a "loss of control" mechanic, and while it is fun it's definitely not very optimal, so keep that in mind if yours is a campaign that has a lot of tough fights. In my case it was 100% a character/story choice, and I went full Berserker as Frenzied Rage was basically the entire point; it was for being backed into a corner or the character being pushed to the point they fully lose control for a time.
As bonnkansan says you can build around Rage if you want to; there are some sorcerer spells with good durations and no concentration required.
In terms of optimal builds though Cyb3rM1nd's picks are on the money; it really depends what exactly you're trying to represent for your draconic lineage. Even white dragons (the most feral of the bunch) aren't necessarily comparable to Barbarians as dragons are extremely intelligent, calculating adversaries, they can be angered, sure, but they shouldn't really go into a blind uncontrollable rage that potentially puts them at risk. If your goal is strength and resilience then I'd do either Fighter, maybe for unarmed fighting style (your "claws"), or Warlock if you don't mind weapon use (as dragons do use them when in humanoid form, so why shouldn't you?).
Alternatively, I play in a group that allows "claws" as a homebrew "weapon"; basically any character that has twin daggers can swap them for "claws" which are the same but cannot be thrown or dropped, and don't need to be drawn (you just need an empty hand to use each set). Nearly every class can start with two daggers from starting equipment and they're not expensive for a gold start, this then lets you have claws on a race that doesn't normally have them, and can use two-weapon fighting if you want to. If your DM allows, you could still mix in Fighter but take the two-weapon fighting style in that case?
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This is incorrect. Taken from the PHB
If you are able to cast spells, you can’t cast them or concentrate on them while raging.
If you are able to actually have a non-concentration spell happen before raging that might work but that tends to be features rather than spells
Barb is probably the most iffy multi class you have for a sorcerer. The key features of both disallow features of the other. Sure it can work if story dictates. But it isn’t going to be great imho. It depends what your focus is
?? What exactly was incorrect? I listed the small set of Sorcerer non-concentration spells. I wasn't implying that it was a *good* multiclass combination, just less problematic than Barb with Cleric? I don't think we're actually in disagreement here?
Specifically that you can't cast spells whilst raging.
But that's correct.
You can't.
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I believe they were listing spells one could cast that would persist after the caster enters their Rage post-casting.
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Yes, that's exactly what I was doing. Heck, I'll go ahead and add the tiny number of spells above 2nd-level to that post I made.
Edit: Done. And even if the OP decides to move away from use of Rage altogether, Reckless Attack and Danger Sense don't require Rage so they will still be handy. Unarmored Movement won't stack with the armoring from Draconic Resilience, though. I think it can still be a fun concept to play as, with interesting character progression as the Sorcery gets unlocked! But it definitely won't synchronize terribly well.
It may have been a typo but when i wrote that post it read that you COULD cast spells. Hence the clarification. From memory it said you can't concentrate but COULD cast spells and that was the bit I had a thing with. It could very well have been a typo that was fixed when i was posting it.
The quoted parts wouldn't be any different, so it wasn't a typo. But the first line was worded somewhat long-windedly I'll admit, so I understand if it got read in a way I didn't mean. Anyway, we're not in disagreement on the challenge of this multiclass!
If that is the case that is fair enough. If I read it wrong that is on me and I apologise for that. My only challenge was the whole "Can't cast spells whilst raging" part. The multi-class is a tough one to make work.