I’m building this character for my friend’s Ravnica campaign and I need some help. For context he’s not allowing any UA and has also blacklisted any races that do not exist within the Ravnica world (eg: no Yuan-ti, gnomes, etc). He has also stated that we can point buy or standard array our stats and that the campaign will probably go as high as 15th level.
There’s an abjuration wizard concept that Treantmonk had on his channel that I’d like to try, but I’m wondering about some things. 1) If you dip 2 levels into Warlock for Armor of Shadows to replenish the Arcane Ward, does this still work if you’re wearing armor? Mage Armor states that you can target “a willing creature that’s not wearing armor”. Therefore, if I had on scalemail and cast mage armor on myself the spell would fail, but would it still cast? Would I still gain the 2 HP to my ward?
2) Going off the above, what would be a good split for the levels? I’ve seen a lot of builds that would stop at 2. Treantmonk takes a single level of Warlock. However, I’ve been considering 3 to get pact (pretty open as to which one, but blade would be interesting for BB or GFB).
Currently, I’m thinking Variant Human with the Warcaster feat to at least start. Any advice that the community could offer would be great! Thanks!
1) mage armor might work if you were wearing armor, depends on your DM though. RAW states not.
2)I would suggest 2 or 3 levels of warlock first, take eldritch blast(or another), another utility spell. Definitely take armor of Agathys to pair with your ward (see here for ruling from https://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/05/20/how-will-work-arcane-ward-armor-of-agathys/) maybe hex for good damage, many other spells are also viable. Of course pick up your shadow armor invocation and possibly agonizing blast. One reasons to take a third level of warlock is to get access to a pact, Tome is good since you get 3 other cantrips from any other class, Chain is not the best since you can get a familiar from you being a wizard, unless you really want an imp or other exclusive creatures, Blade is not super great mechanically wise, even with the hexblade buffs, since you can just eldritch blast from 115ft more further away and do about equal damage(if taking Agonizing blast, Also as levels go on it will become substantially more powerful) as well as the fact that you can bond with your weapon with the hexblade features, blade is very viable roleplay wise though, and may be able to increase the variety of weapons accessible to you at your will. A second reason to take a 3rd level is to take more spells and buff your Armor of Agathys to 10 cold damage each time someone decides to hit you, instead of the 5.
The levels in wizard are up to you and think about if an third level in Warlock would outweigh an extra level in wizard. Remember to place at least 13 charisma so you can multiclass into or out of warlock.
3) I think human would be a safe bet, and you wouldn't need war-caster if you used a shield and an arcane focus in each hand, unless you are sold on using a weapon. Also, Vedalken would be good since it boosts intelligence and has interesting features.
Thanks for the suggestions. I don’t think EB is a good option here since it makes the build kinda MAD. And since this character will be in melee range much of the time, I think BB or GFB is better in combination with the Warcaster feat. This is also why I was considering blade pact but after giving it some thought, with a 13 in CHA it’s not really worth it. The main damage component for this build is letting the enemies take damage from AoA (which I’ll start up casting as I gain higher level slots).
Also I discussed the matter with my DM. He said his interpretation is that if you’re wearing armor, Mage Armor has an invalid target and the spell fizzles. This would cost the caster a spell slot but it wouldn’t proc any downstream effects (eg: Arcane Ward). So if I wanted to use the Armor of Shadows trick, I’ll have to remove my armor between combats. Which isn’t the worst thing since medium armor only takes a minute to doff.
Also I discussed the matter with my DM. He said his interpretation is that if you’re wearing armor, Mage Armor has an invalid target and the spell fizzles. This would cost the caster a spell slot but it wouldn’t proc any downstream effects (eg: Arcane Ward). So if I wanted to use the Armor of Shadows trick, I’ll have to remove my armor between combats. Which isn’t the worst thing since medium armor only takes a minute to doff.
I think if he interprets it that way, you technically are casting the spell, and therefore should be able to replenish your arcane ward.
I would agree, but I don't want to push it too hard since the tactic is pretty cheese to begin with. But I still think it's out of combat utility is good.
The best solution for this that I have found is taking first level fighter for all armor proficiency and weapons. Second level Warlock for access to AoA then wizard from there on. You only need one level of warlock to gain access to AoA and cast at any level you have slots meaning you could hit 18 wiz for a total shield of 41 with a plus 5 and AoA temp hp of 45 at level 9. Also the armor of shadows trick is useless at higher levels a 2 ward hp for one action is wasted economy in a fight and waste of time out of battle as you would have to take your armor off then cast then put back on. A good DM would punish this for the cheese alone lol. Human variant is best as you gain access to war caster level 1 making sure you have no issues with casting spells starting level 2. If you take a standard array of Str 14+1 Dex 10 Con 12 Int 15+1 Wis 8 Cha 13 you get well rounded and access to all armors from the get go. I am currently starting a campaign to play test this variant right now wish me luck!!
This is a big time thread necro, but you want at least two levels of warlock so you can get armor of shadows. Armor of shadows allows you to cast mage armor /at will/, without using a spell slot, to charge your arcane ward. Armor of Agathys will always cost you a spell slot.
Charging your arcane ward is /not/ useless, because you power it to full level /before/ combat starts.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Doesn't matter if they changed the rules or you're allowed to do it. It's still thread necromancy. The guy who originally asked for advice no longer needs it at this point.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
This is a big time thread necro, but you want at least two levels of warlock so you can get armor of shadows. Armor of shadows allows you to cast mage armor /at will/, without using a spell slot, to charge your arcane ward. Armor of Agathys will always cost you a spell slot.
Charging your arcane ward is /not/ useless, because you power it to full level /before/ combat starts.
Yeah, and honestly the level of fighter is unnecessary too IMHO. I think a level of Artificer would be better, but honestly just the two levels of Warlock and the rest straight Wiz would be better.
If you absolutely must have the armor and weapons, hexblade solves that, like it does every other problem in the game. How do I make X work? Dip hexblade of course! *grumble*
I really wish they would have made that stuff blade pact features rather than a patron, front loaded at level 1.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Or made Warlock an Int caster. That would stop a lot of the shenanigans. Or at least make Int more important.
Warlock definitely should have been an Int caster. I don't know what the playtesters were thinking when they convinced WotC to make them a char caster.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Or made Warlock an Int caster. That would stop a lot of the shenanigans. Or at least make Int more important.
Warlock definitely should have been an Int caster. I don't know what the playtesters were thinking when they convinced WotC to make them a char caster.
I have some ideas what the playtested were thinking, it’s WotC who’s judgement is suspect.
Unfortunately, with the first level fighter, you can not use human variant to take warcaster. The prerequisite for warcaster says you have to have the ability to cast spells which as a first level fighter you do not.
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Hello Everyone,
I’m building this character for my friend’s Ravnica campaign and I need some help. For context he’s not allowing any UA and has also blacklisted any races that do not exist within the Ravnica world (eg: no Yuan-ti, gnomes, etc). He has also stated that we can point buy or standard array our stats and that the campaign will probably go as high as 15th level.
There’s an abjuration wizard concept that Treantmonk had on his channel that I’d like to try, but I’m wondering about some things.
1) If you dip 2 levels into Warlock for Armor of Shadows to replenish the Arcane Ward, does this still work if you’re wearing armor? Mage Armor states that you can target “a willing creature that’s not wearing armor”. Therefore, if I had on scalemail and cast mage armor on myself the spell would fail, but would it still cast? Would I still gain the 2 HP to my ward?
2) Going off the above, what would be a good split for the levels? I’ve seen a lot of builds that would stop at 2. Treantmonk takes a single level of Warlock. However, I’ve been considering 3 to get pact (pretty open as to which one, but blade would be interesting for BB or GFB).
Currently, I’m thinking Variant Human with the Warcaster feat to at least start. Any advice that the community could offer would be great! Thanks!
To answer your questions:
1) mage armor might work if you were wearing armor, depends on your DM though. RAW states not.
2)I would suggest 2 or 3 levels of warlock first, take eldritch blast(or another), another utility spell. Definitely take armor of Agathys to pair with your ward (see here for ruling from https://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/05/20/how-will-work-arcane-ward-armor-of-agathys/) maybe hex for good damage, many other spells are also viable. Of course pick up your shadow armor invocation and possibly agonizing blast. One reasons to take a third level of warlock is to get access to a pact, Tome is good since you get 3 other cantrips from any other class, Chain is not the best since you can get a familiar from you being a wizard, unless you really want an imp or other exclusive creatures, Blade is not super great mechanically wise, even with the hexblade buffs, since you can just eldritch blast from 115ft more further away and do about equal damage(if taking Agonizing blast, Also as levels go on it will become substantially more powerful) as well as the fact that you can bond with your weapon with the hexblade features, blade is very viable roleplay wise though, and may be able to increase the variety of weapons accessible to you at your will. A second reason to take a 3rd level is to take more spells and buff your Armor of Agathys to 10 cold damage each time someone decides to hit you, instead of the 5.
The levels in wizard are up to you and think about if an third level in Warlock would outweigh an extra level in wizard. Remember to place at least 13 charisma so you can multiclass into or out of warlock.
3) I think human would be a safe bet, and you wouldn't need war-caster if you used a shield and an arcane focus in each hand, unless you are sold on using a weapon. Also, Vedalken would be good since it boosts intelligence and has interesting features.
Thanks for the suggestions. I don’t think EB is a good option here since it makes the build kinda MAD. And since this character will be in melee range much of the time, I think BB or GFB is better in combination with the Warcaster feat. This is also why I was considering blade pact but after giving it some thought, with a 13 in CHA it’s not really worth it. The main damage component for this build is letting the enemies take damage from AoA (which I’ll start up casting as I gain higher level slots).
Also I discussed the matter with my DM. He said his interpretation is that if you’re wearing armor, Mage Armor has an invalid target and the spell fizzles. This would cost the caster a spell slot but it wouldn’t proc any downstream effects (eg: Arcane Ward). So if I wanted to use the Armor of Shadows trick, I’ll have to remove my armor between combats. Which isn’t the worst thing since medium armor only takes a minute to doff.
I think if he interprets it that way, you technically are casting the spell, and therefore should be able to replenish your arcane ward.
I would agree, but I don't want to push it too hard since the tactic is pretty cheese to begin with. But I still think it's out of combat utility is good.
The best solution for this that I have found is taking first level fighter for all armor proficiency and weapons. Second level Warlock for access to AoA then wizard from there on. You only need one level of warlock to gain access to AoA and cast at any level you have slots meaning you could hit 18 wiz for a total shield of 41 with a plus 5 and AoA temp hp of 45 at level 9. Also the armor of shadows trick is useless at higher levels a 2 ward hp for one action is wasted economy in a fight and waste of time out of battle as you would have to take your armor off then cast then put back on. A good DM would punish this for the cheese alone lol. Human variant is best as you gain access to war caster level 1 making sure you have no issues with casting spells starting level 2. If you take a standard array of Str 14+1 Dex 10 Con 12 Int 15+1 Wis 8 Cha 13 you get well rounded and access to all armors from the get go. I am currently starting a campaign to play test this variant right now wish me luck!!
This is a big time thread necro, but you want at least two levels of warlock so you can get armor of shadows. Armor of shadows allows you to cast mage armor /at will/, without using a spell slot, to charge your arcane ward. Armor of Agathys will always cost you a spell slot.
Charging your arcane ward is /not/ useless, because you power it to full level /before/ combat starts.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
That’s not a thing anymore.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/d-d-beyond-general/news-announcements/2-site-rules-guidelines?comment=3
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Doesn't matter if they changed the rules or you're allowed to do it. It's still thread necromancy. The guy who originally asked for advice no longer needs it at this point.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Yeah, and honestly the level of fighter is unnecessary too IMHO. I think a level of Artificer would be better, but honestly just the two levels of Warlock and the rest straight Wiz would be better.
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If you absolutely must have the armor and weapons, hexblade solves that, like it does every other problem in the game. How do I make X work? Dip hexblade of course! *grumble*
I really wish they would have made that stuff blade pact features rather than a patron, front loaded at level 1.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Or made Warlock an Int caster. That would stop a lot of the shenanigans. Or at least make Int more important.
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Warlock definitely should have been an Int caster. I don't know what the playtesters were thinking when they convinced WotC to make them a char caster.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
I have some ideas what the playtested were thinking, it’s WotC who’s judgement is suspect.
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Hardcovers, DDB & You
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As the OP for this post, I appreciate the advice. A fighter dip is an interesting idea. Also kudos for teaching me what ‘thread necromancy’ is! Lol
Unfortunately, with the first level fighter, you can not use human variant to take warcaster. The prerequisite for warcaster says you have to have the ability to cast spells which as a first level fighter you do not.