I am creating a bladesinger wizard and my character race does not include any additional weapon proficiency. At level 2, you can choose a one-handed weapon, but I am not sure what to pick. Longsword seems to be a safe bet for finding magic weapons in the long run, but after i read through the level 1 Candlekeep Mystery I want to choose flail and make my weapon a book on a chain. It's thematically cool, but it feels like I would be limiting myself greatly when it comes to useful magical weapons. What choice is better in a long term campaign?
I am creating a bladesinger wizard and my character race does not include any additional weapon proficiency. At level 2, you can choose a one-handed weapon, but I am not sure what to pick. Longsword seems to be a safe bet for finding magic weapons in the long run, but after i read through the level 1 Candlekeep Mystery I want to choose flail and make my weapon a book on a chain. It's thematically cool, but it feels like I would be limiting myself greatly when it comes to useful magical weapons. What choice is better in a long term campaign?
Longsword is a terrible choice, and a flail is even worse. The best options are a rapier, a whip, or a hand crossbow (or a pistol if you're playing with firearms). Remember you're already proficient in slings, daggers, and darts when making your choice.
Since your Bladesong feature lets you add your Intelligence modifier to your Armor Class, Dexterity isn't that important. You can raise both if you want, but it's not a huge priority. Most wizards don't have a Dexterity score higher than 15, anyway, so even if you never improve it above that and only focus on Intelligence you can still have an AC of 18 by 4th-level without magic items or mage armor. A suit of glamoured studded leather and a cloak or ring of protection and you're fine. And that's before you get into the more exotic stuff like an animated shield or defender.
That said, you want a decent attack ability for when you want to mix it up in melee. If you have the raw Strength, I say go for the flail. It's your character; don't let someone else tell you "no" because it's not what they'd do. Just be aware that few, if any, published modules include flails; let alone magical ones. But, if it were me, I'd opt for the scimitar. The difference in damage between it and the rapier is negligible, and it grants access to the scimitar of speed.
Unless you’re doing a Tortle Bladesinger. You will want to use a rapier or some other finesse weapon.
That would be tragic, losing the bonus to AC from Bladesong to be a Tortle Bladesinger. The Int bonus won't stack with a Tortle's 17.
What makes you believe that the AC bonus from Bladesong doesn't stack with a Tortle? Bladesong doesn't say anything that would prevent it from adding to natural armor and there is nothing in the Tortle's natural armor feature that would prevent it from gaining an additional bonus to AC due to bladesong. A Tortle Bladesinger is a great choice if you want to focus more on strength rather than the traditional Dex based bladesinger.
But going back to your original post, what race did you choose for your bladesinger? And are you planning on going Dex or Strength based? Because as much as Longswords are cool and all, if you're Dex based, the sword would need to have finesse to be more useful. If your strength based, and you don't have natural armor, then you'll suffer with your AC compared to the Dex based BS.
You can certainly put points into strength for a flail. It's not optimal, but it is doable and you may have fun.
If you want to be optimal then focus on your Dex and int and be a race that gives you +2 dex +1 int or +1 dex +2 int. If using point buy or standard array you'll want a 15 in one (add the +1 to this) and 14 in the other (add the +2 to this). So you'll have a 16 at least for both dex and int. During bladesong that's an AC of 16. With mage armour that's AC 19. With Shield spell that's AC 24. And hey look, you don't have to rely on magic items you might not get *. If you maxed both of these, which you can do with ASIs, you will end up with AC 28 with those spells. So, yes, the Dex focus is most assuredly the better stat for a Bladesinging wizard to invest in. It fits the theme well since bladesinging is not a bunch of magic bonuses - it's you using music-like rhythm intelligently woven into your movement and footwork, as well as your focus. That's why it's called Bladesong - you're 'dancing' to a song in your head as way to be better at combat.
Focusing on strength will only benefit your ability to wield that flail and one skill. Focusing on Dex for finesse weapons instead will increase your attack, defense, initiative and multiple skills.
* Mage armour is the equivalent AC of +1 Studded Leather Armour (Rare, typically levels 5 to 10), or Leather +2 (Very Rare, around level 10 and higher). Yet you can get this spell right away. So by using Dex you can start with AC 19 , superior to full plate armour, right off the bat. You have very few hit points, you will need the AC. Plus, dex means ranged weapons.
Is it really necessary? No. With the +int to AC and spells you'll be ok. So you can certainly use the Strength for the flail if you want to. I just think it best you have all the options as you will, definitely, be sacrificing a lot just for the lolz of a book-chain flail. Only you can decide if that is worth it for your character.
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Everyone is telling you how horrible those two choices are because they are assuming that you made Strength your dump stat, or at least one of your two lowest stats. But if you have high strength then pick the one that makes you the happiest. Longswords are common because players use them. If my players don’t use longswords, they don’t find many. If my players used mostly flails, then the campaign would end up having more magic flails in it than normal.
Since your Bladesong feature lets you add your Intelligence modifier to your Armor Class, Dexterity isn't that important. You can raise both if you want, but it's not a huge priority. Most wizards don't have a Dexterity score higher than 15, anyway, so even if you never improve it above that and only focus on Intelligence you can still have an AC of 18 by 4th-level without magic items or mage armor. A suit of glamoured studded leather and a cloak or ring of protection and you're fine. And that's before you get into the more exotic stuff like an animated shield or defender.
Two things:
1. If starting with 15 Dex and never increasing it and focusing on Int, means by 4th Level you get AC 17, max. +2 for the 15 Dex, and +5 from 20 Int. And if you're using point buy or standard array this wouldn't be possible, since even with an ASI the highest a stat could be at 4th level is 19 (Int: start 15, +2 race, +2 ASI) which is +4 and your Dex would be left at 14, +2, so that's only AC 16 at 4th level.
2. You're making a lot of assumptions about the availability of magic items. Now, I do agree one can go with Strength and use a Strength-based weapon and it'll still be viable and fun. It's just you shouldn't really go into the game with the expectation of specific magic items. Not just because it relies heavy on DM's grace but also so you can more easily detail what the character can do without equipment that can be taken from them - like being attacked in the night when you're not wearing it or when in Antimagic Field, etc.
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1. If starting with 15 Dex and never increasing it and focusing on Int, means by 4th Level you get AC 17, max. +2 for the 15 Dex, and +5 from 20 Int. And if you're using point buy or standard array this wouldn't be possible, since even with an ASI the highest a stat could be at 4th level is 19 (Int: start 15, +2 race, +2 ASI) which is +4 and your Dex would be left at 14, +2, so that's only AC 16 at 4th level.
I think the idea is that they would be wearing Studded Leather armor which would give them a starting AC of 12 + 2 for Dex + 4 for Bladesong which would give you the 18 AC
Max INT at level 1 has been 18 since TCOE dropped - 15 base, Custom Lineage +2, any +1 feat -> 18. But the custom lineage only gets 2 stat points base, so unless you have a truly monostat build, that's *half* the stat points of a half-elf or mountain dwarf, and 2/3 the stat points of everyone else, before the feat, which is a big deficit.
I looked at Tortle, and quite right, Bladesong should work on it - I misread it. :/ That would indeed be the way to justify a strength Bladesinger, if you wanted one. The big seller there, I think, would be being good at Athletics, opening up shove and grapple shenanigans not normally available to Bladesingers - and would be extremely compatible with the Crusher feat, for Booming Blade shenanigans. An excellent build, really.
Oh, and I think most people assume Bladesingers are wearing Mage Armor at level 2, not studded leather. Not sure, but it's certainly what I assume.
Since your Bladesong feature lets you add your Intelligence modifier to your Armor Class, Dexterity isn't that important. You can raise both if you want, but it's not a huge priority. Most wizards don't have a Dexterity score higher than 15, anyway, so even if you never improve it above that and only focus on Intelligence you can still have an AC of 18 by 4th-level without magic items or mage armor. A suit of glamoured studded leather and a cloak or ring of protection and you're fine. And that's before you get into the more exotic stuff like an animated shield or defender.
Two things:
1. If starting with 15 Dex and never increasing it and focusing on Int, means by 4th Level you get AC 17, max. +2 for the 15 Dex, and +5 from 20 Int. And if you're using point buy or standard array this wouldn't be possible, since even with an ASI the highest a stat could be at 4th level is 19 (Int: start 15, +2 race, +2 ASI) which is +4 and your Dex would be left at 14, +2, so that's only AC 16 at 4th level.
2. You're making a lot of assumptions about the availability of magic items. Now, I do agree one can go with Strength and use a Strength-based weapon and it'll still be viable and fun. It's just you shouldn't really go into the game with the expectation of specific magic items. Not just because it relies heavy on DM's grace but also so you can more easily detail what the character can do without equipment that can be taken from them - like being attacked in the night when you're not wearing it or when in Antimagic Field, etc.
Two things (^_^)
As has been pointed out by TakaiSakage already, the assumption on AC was based on a standard array, an initial +3 modifier in Intelligence, and the availability of studded leather. None of these are unreasonable assumptions, though I should have clarified. It was late and I was tired.
Yes and no. Depending on the module being played, some assumptions are reasonably safe to make. If you're playing in Lost Mines of Phandlever or Dragon of Icespire Peak, and you have any foreknowledge of the modules, then it's reasonable to assume access to gauntlets of ogre power at some point. A Bladesinger who prefers attacking with Strength would benefit immensely from these. And, as has been pointed out, many DMs will also tailor their campaign loot to better fit the party. It's no fun when a magic item drops and nobody can use it. The cloak of protection is uncommon. The ring and glamoured studded leather are rare. These are magic items players can reasonably expect to find or acquire before 10th-level.
Longsword seems to be a safe bet for finding magic weapons in the long run, but after i read through the level 1 Candlekeep Mystery I want to choose flail and make my weapon a book on a chain.
I have to question anyone who would abuse a book like that.
What race is your character? That might influence the decision.
I chose Warforged for the +2 Constituition and the +1 AC. I figured those stats would make me less squishy. I am new to the group I am playing with, so I am not sure how specialized of a character I want to try and play.
The AC bonus from Bladesong does stack with the Tortle’s shell AC.
This is correct.
The description of the racial trait is that it is an AC calculation (a flat 17 instead of 10+Dex) but is not actual armour. Therefore any "bonus" to AC applies to it as it would to anything that granted an AC calculation.
D&D Beyond either does or used to have a bug where it treated the feature similar to the Barkskin spell. The staff were made aware but I don't know if it got fixed.
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A Tortle bladesinger would be powerful. I think that there should be more magic flails and other weapons too. Longswords are good too, but you should at least have a 14 Strength score to use one. A rapier is easier to use though, since wizards already need at least a decent Dexterity.
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Erean Cabenrith a Variant Human Cleric (Light Domain)
To propose a couple of options which might not be terribly popular amoung fellow DM's but no harm in asking your DM if you can do either of the following....
Option 1) Research your own spells, take a look at the Smite spells or Elemental Weapon from the paladin spell list and ask your DM if you can research spells to mimic those as part of your Bladesinging style, if there is no-one playing a paladin in your group then this might be ok to do as you won't be stealing anyones thunder by using them and even if there is a paladin in the group they might just be of the opinion that they'll save their spell slots for their normal class smites rather than cast a spell to do it, you can also see if they would allow tweaking other spells, maybe try creating a wizard/flail version of Shillelagh, Shadowflail instead of Shadowblade, Bladesinger Strike instead of Zephyr Strike etc.
Option 2) create your own magical weapon. You can do this a variety of ways, none of which are going to be cheap in GP cost but does grant you the power to create a magic flail rather than trying to find one, taking the Magic Weapon spell gives your the basis to start your item creating, tinkering with the spell and combining it with cantrips such as green flame blade could give you the basics for a flametongue effect for a flail. Try to get creative matching spell effects with magic itmes and try to "reverse engineer" them.
Both options can give your DM some additional mini quest options as you chase down leads to complete your spell tinkering or item creation.
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I chose Warforged for the +2 Constituition and the +1 AC. I figured those stats would make me less squishy. I am new to the group I am playing with, so I am not sure how specialized of a character I want to try and play.
Generally, D&D rewards and expects specialization. Even if you don't want to powergame, your character needs to be competent in their role.
For a Wizard, generally this means you should prioritize your Intelligence score. For a Bladesinger, you have to balance Intelligence and your attack stat. An argument can be made to prioritize your attack stat, if you really want to focus on melee combat, although the benefits of Wizard spells shouldn't be ignored. As you've probably realized from all the other posts, Dexterity is the attack stat of choice for most Bladesingers. It's not impossible for Strength to be used, but Dexterity is generally better.
If Warforged is the race you want to play, you might want to consider using the new Tasha's rules to reallocate your stats. Which stat (Intelligence or your attack stat) you want to buff is up to you. If you really want to go with longsword or a flail, then go Strength but I would generally recommend against creating your entire build around the possibilities of finding a magical weapon of a certain type. Even if you know there is one, the DM or another player might make this gamble not pan out. Also, just because there is one type of magical weapon available, doesn't mean it will play nice with your class features and going against those generally makes for a weaker character.
Anyway, there are lots of Bladesinger guides you can Google. They should help you explore the options for a build.
I chose Warforged for the +2 Constituition and the +1 AC. I figured those stats would make me less squishy. I am new to the group I am playing with, so I am not sure how specialized of a character I want to try and play.
Generally, D&D rewards and expects specialization. Even if you don't want to powergame, your character needs to be competent in their role.
For a Wizard, generally this means you should prioritize your Intelligence score. For a Bladesinger, you have to balance Intelligence and your attack stat. An argument can be made to prioritize your attack stat, if you really want to focus on melee combat, although the benefits of Wizard spells shouldn't be ignored. As you've probably realized from all the other posts, Dexterity is the attack stat of choice for most Bladesingers. It's not impossible for Strength to be used, but Dexterity is generally better.
If Warforged is the race you want to play, you might want to consider using the new Tasha's rules to reallocate your stats. Which stat (Intelligence or your attack stat) you want to buff is up to you. If you really want to go with longsword or a flail, then go Strength but I would generally recommend against creating your entire build around the possibilities of finding a magical weapon of a certain type. Even if you know there is one, the DM or another player might make this gamble not pan out. Also, just because there is one type of magical weapon available, doesn't mean it will play nice with your class features and going against those generally makes for a weaker character.
Anyway, there are lots of Bladesinger guides you can Google. They should help you explore the options for a build.
5e doesn't care about optimization and specialization much. it's power level is much lower than what most such optimizations usually entail andso they actually tend to smash up out of the box encounters when optimized because the challenge rating is lower than such builds can handle. 3.X was the only real period where optimization was in any way mandatory and baked into the power structure of the game to the point that where if you didn't do it you would likely be crushed by out of the box encounters designed purely by the standard encounter creation rules.
As long as you make a character that is reasonably competent and falls somewhere roughly in line with the standard array offered in the PHB you'll find that any reasonably made party can handle most out of the box encounters with a bit of effort and thought until you get up into the highest Tiers of Play where WotC admits is a bit unbalanced and they didn't pay much attention to it and thus make very few official adventure modules that deal with it.
I am creating a bladesinger wizard and my character race does not include any additional weapon proficiency. At level 2, you can choose a one-handed weapon, but I am not sure what to pick. Longsword seems to be a safe bet for finding magic weapons in the long run, but after i read through the level 1 Candlekeep Mystery I want to choose flail and make my weapon a book on a chain. It's thematically cool, but it feels like I would be limiting myself greatly when it comes to useful magical weapons. What choice is better in a long term campaign?
Longsword is a terrible choice, and a flail is even worse. The best options are a rapier, a whip, or a hand crossbow (or a pistol if you're playing with firearms). Remember you're already proficient in slings, daggers, and darts when making your choice.
Unless you’re doing a Tortle Bladesinger. You will want to use a rapier or some other finesse weapon.
Since your Bladesong feature lets you add your Intelligence modifier to your Armor Class, Dexterity isn't that important. You can raise both if you want, but it's not a huge priority. Most wizards don't have a Dexterity score higher than 15, anyway, so even if you never improve it above that and only focus on Intelligence you can still have an AC of 18 by 4th-level without magic items or mage armor. A suit of glamoured studded leather and a cloak or ring of protection and you're fine. And that's before you get into the more exotic stuff like an animated shield or defender.
That said, you want a decent attack ability for when you want to mix it up in melee. If you have the raw Strength, I say go for the flail. It's your character; don't let someone else tell you "no" because it's not what they'd do. Just be aware that few, if any, published modules include flails; let alone magical ones. But, if it were me, I'd opt for the scimitar. The difference in damage between it and the rapier is negligible, and it grants access to the scimitar of speed.
That would be tragic, losing the bonus to AC from Bladesong to be a Tortle Bladesinger. The Int bonus won't stack with a Tortle's 17.
What makes you believe that the AC bonus from Bladesong doesn't stack with a Tortle? Bladesong doesn't say anything that would prevent it from adding to natural armor and there is nothing in the Tortle's natural armor feature that would prevent it from gaining an additional bonus to AC due to bladesong. A Tortle Bladesinger is a great choice if you want to focus more on strength rather than the traditional Dex based bladesinger.
But going back to your original post, what race did you choose for your bladesinger? And are you planning on going Dex or Strength based? Because as much as Longswords are cool and all, if you're Dex based, the sword would need to have finesse to be more useful. If your strength based, and you don't have natural armor, then you'll suffer with your AC compared to the Dex based BS.
You can certainly put points into strength for a flail. It's not optimal, but it is doable and you may have fun.
If you want to be optimal then focus on your Dex and int and be a race that gives you +2 dex +1 int or +1 dex +2 int. If using point buy or standard array you'll want a 15 in one (add the +1 to this) and 14 in the other (add the +2 to this). So you'll have a 16 at least for both dex and int. During bladesong that's an AC of 16. With mage armour that's AC 19. With Shield spell that's AC 24. And hey look, you don't have to rely on magic items you might not get *. If you maxed both of these, which you can do with ASIs, you will end up with AC 28 with those spells. So, yes, the Dex focus is most assuredly the better stat for a Bladesinging wizard to invest in. It fits the theme well since bladesinging is not a bunch of magic bonuses - it's you using music-like rhythm intelligently woven into your movement and footwork, as well as your focus. That's why it's called Bladesong - you're 'dancing' to a song in your head as way to be better at combat.
Focusing on strength will only benefit your ability to wield that flail and one skill. Focusing on Dex for finesse weapons instead will increase your attack, defense, initiative and multiple skills.
* Mage armour is the equivalent AC of +1 Studded Leather Armour (Rare, typically levels 5 to 10), or Leather +2 (Very Rare, around level 10 and higher). Yet you can get this spell right away. So by using Dex you can start with AC 19 , superior to full plate armour, right off the bat. You have very few hit points, you will need the AC. Plus, dex means ranged weapons.
Is it really necessary? No. With the +int to AC and spells you'll be ok. So you can certainly use the Strength for the flail if you want to. I just think it best you have all the options as you will, definitely, be sacrificing a lot just for the lolz of a book-chain flail. Only you can decide if that is worth it for your character.
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Everyone is telling you how horrible those two choices are because they are assuming that you made Strength your dump stat, or at least one of your two lowest stats. But if you have high strength then pick the one that makes you the happiest. Longswords are common because players use them. If my players don’t use longswords, they don’t find many. If my players used mostly flails, then the campaign would end up having more magic flails in it than normal.
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Two things:
1. If starting with 15 Dex and never increasing it and focusing on Int, means by 4th Level you get AC 17, max. +2 for the 15 Dex, and +5 from 20 Int. And if you're using point buy or standard array this wouldn't be possible, since even with an ASI the highest a stat could be at 4th level is 19 (Int: start 15, +2 race, +2 ASI) which is +4 and your Dex would be left at 14, +2, so that's only AC 16 at 4th level.
2. You're making a lot of assumptions about the availability of magic items. Now, I do agree one can go with Strength and use a Strength-based weapon and it'll still be viable and fun. It's just you shouldn't really go into the game with the expectation of specific magic items. Not just because it relies heavy on DM's grace but also so you can more easily detail what the character can do without equipment that can be taken from them - like being attacked in the night when you're not wearing it or when in Antimagic Field, etc.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
I think the idea is that they would be wearing Studded Leather armor which would give them a starting AC of 12 + 2 for Dex + 4 for Bladesong which would give you the 18 AC
Max INT at level 1 has been 18 since TCOE dropped - 15 base, Custom Lineage +2, any +1 feat -> 18. But the custom lineage only gets 2 stat points base, so unless you have a truly monostat build, that's *half* the stat points of a half-elf or mountain dwarf, and 2/3 the stat points of everyone else, before the feat, which is a big deficit.
I looked at Tortle, and quite right, Bladesong should work on it - I misread it. :/ That would indeed be the way to justify a strength Bladesinger, if you wanted one. The big seller there, I think, would be being good at Athletics, opening up shove and grapple shenanigans not normally available to Bladesingers - and would be extremely compatible with the Crusher feat, for Booming Blade shenanigans. An excellent build, really.
Oh, and I think most people assume Bladesingers are wearing Mage Armor at level 2, not studded leather. Not sure, but it's certainly what I assume.
Two things (^_^)
The cloak of protection is uncommon. The ring and glamoured studded leather are rare. These are magic items players can reasonably expect to find or acquire before 10th-level.
I have to question anyone who would abuse a book like that.
What race is your character? That might influence the decision.
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I chose Warforged for the +2 Constituition and the +1 AC. I figured those stats would make me less squishy. I am new to the group I am playing with, so I am not sure how specialized of a character I want to try and play.
The AC bonus from Bladesong does stack with the Tortle’s shell AC.
This is correct.
The description of the racial trait is that it is an AC calculation (a flat 17 instead of 10+Dex) but is not actual armour. Therefore any "bonus" to AC applies to it as it would to anything that granted an AC calculation.
D&D Beyond either does or used to have a bug where it treated the feature similar to the Barkskin spell. The staff were made aware but I don't know if it got fixed.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
A Tortle bladesinger would be powerful. I think that there should be more magic flails and other weapons too. Longswords are good too, but you should at least have a 14 Strength score to use one. A rapier is easier to use though, since wizards already need at least a decent Dexterity.
Erean Cabenrith a Variant Human Cleric (Light Domain)
Eliem Lightblossom a High Elf Blood Hunter
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To propose a couple of options which might not be terribly popular amoung fellow DM's but no harm in asking your DM if you can do either of the following....
Option 1) Research your own spells, take a look at the Smite spells or Elemental Weapon from the paladin spell list and ask your DM if you can research spells to mimic those as part of your Bladesinging style, if there is no-one playing a paladin in your group then this might be ok to do as you won't be stealing anyones thunder by using them and even if there is a paladin in the group they might just be of the opinion that they'll save their spell slots for their normal class smites rather than cast a spell to do it, you can also see if they would allow tweaking other spells, maybe try creating a wizard/flail version of Shillelagh, Shadowflail instead of Shadowblade, Bladesinger Strike instead of Zephyr Strike etc.
Option 2) create your own magical weapon. You can do this a variety of ways, none of which are going to be cheap in GP cost but does grant you the power to create a magic flail rather than trying to find one, taking the Magic Weapon spell gives your the basis to start your item creating, tinkering with the spell and combining it with cantrips such as green flame blade could give you the basics for a flametongue effect for a flail. Try to get creative matching spell effects with magic itmes and try to "reverse engineer" them.
Both options can give your DM some additional mini quest options as you chase down leads to complete your spell tinkering or item creation.
Generally, D&D rewards and expects specialization. Even if you don't want to powergame, your character needs to be competent in their role.
For a Wizard, generally this means you should prioritize your Intelligence score. For a Bladesinger, you have to balance Intelligence and your attack stat. An argument can be made to prioritize your attack stat, if you really want to focus on melee combat, although the benefits of Wizard spells shouldn't be ignored. As you've probably realized from all the other posts, Dexterity is the attack stat of choice for most Bladesingers. It's not impossible for Strength to be used, but Dexterity is generally better.
If Warforged is the race you want to play, you might want to consider using the new Tasha's rules to reallocate your stats. Which stat (Intelligence or your attack stat) you want to buff is up to you. If you really want to go with longsword or a flail, then go Strength but I would generally recommend against creating your entire build around the possibilities of finding a magical weapon of a certain type. Even if you know there is one, the DM or another player might make this gamble not pan out. Also, just because there is one type of magical weapon available, doesn't mean it will play nice with your class features and going against those generally makes for a weaker character.
Anyway, there are lots of Bladesinger guides you can Google. They should help you explore the options for a build.
5e doesn't care about optimization and specialization much. it's power level is much lower than what most such optimizations usually entail andso they actually tend to smash up out of the box encounters when optimized because the challenge rating is lower than such builds can handle. 3.X was the only real period where optimization was in any way mandatory and baked into the power structure of the game to the point that where if you didn't do it you would likely be crushed by out of the box encounters designed purely by the standard encounter creation rules.
As long as you make a character that is reasonably competent and falls somewhere roughly in line with the standard array offered in the PHB you'll find that any reasonably made party can handle most out of the box encounters with a bit of effort and thought until you get up into the highest Tiers of Play where WotC admits is a bit unbalanced and they didn't pay much attention to it and thus make very few official adventure modules that deal with it.