The cleric class basically just picks a role and instantly becomes the best thing in the game at that role. What about the War Domain in particular screams healer to so many? All are included (except Life and Grave because they’re made for that), but War stands out.
You can play a cleric that never heals, but the party's expectation is going to be that you buff and heal. It's the fact that it's a cleric, most people don't care much about what the cleric in the party's domain is...it's fluff that goes along with healing and buffs. You can choose to not do those things, but you're likely going to disappoint your party.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Because they are good at it. It's generally considered "their job". It's certainly not the fighter's, wizard's or rogue's job to heal.
My current party has a multi-class cleric|paladin in it, and he never buffs or heals...and it annoys most of the party. He considers himself a damage dealer. My warlock does most of the healing, and I did not build the warlock to be the main party healer, but since the guy who picked the heal class won't do it...I'm stuck with it. Our wizard can't do it (the wizard who /wanted/ to play a cleric and support the team, but chose not to because the other guy wanted to be cleric) and our barbarian|rogue can't do it...so my celestial bard|warlock has to do it.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Because in older editions the class list was: Fighter, Thief, Arcane Magic User, Divine Magic User, Elf, Dwarf, and Halfling. (Yes, races were classes back then, don’t ask.) The only class on that list that could heal was the “Divine Magic User” eventually renamed as Cleric.
Because they are good at it. It's generally considered "their job". It's certainly not the fighter's, wizard's or rogue's job to heal.
My current party has a multi-class cleric|paladin in it, and he never buffs or heals...and it annoys most of the party. He considers himself a damage dealer. My warlock does most of the healing, and I did not build the warlock to be the main party healer, but since the guy who picked the heal class won't do it...I'm stuck with it. Our wizard can't do it (the wizard who /wanted/ to play a cleric and support the team, but chose not to because the other guy wanted to be cleric) and our barbarian|rogue can't do it...so my celestial bard|warlock has to do it.
Sounds like everyone’s at fault. Paladins have an inherent healing ability, so preparing spells is no excuse. But you cannot expect a cleric to just heal. They get so many abilities for EVERYTHING that make them the best class, but people expect them to only heal for some reason. I think it’s unreasonable that they refuse to heal, AS A PALADIN.
Bottom line, Clerics have amazing healing and buffing features and can really stand out as a support class. I would say the same for Paladin and Druid. It took some time but, the Druid I play with finally realized that he could/should, heal and buff some of the time. I can speak from experience about using every one of my spell slots to heal being a bore. Healing in D&D is kind of underwhelming and should be considered as a last resort in my mind, you will rarely put out huge healing numbers to match the melee and spell damage output. Better to buff for damage reduction or debuff enemies, use Vampiric Touch to heal yourself, use one spell slot to cast an AoE to take out a group of enemies instead of 5 heals on your group because you let them them be the damage dealers. Think outside the box strategically and don't be afraid to let other players know that they should have healing potions, scrolls and other resources that can keep them alive.
Because they are good at it. It's generally considered "their job". It's certainly not the fighter's, wizard's or rogue's job to heal.
My current party has a multi-class cleric|paladin in it, and he never buffs or heals...and it annoys most of the party. He considers himself a damage dealer. My warlock does most of the healing, and I did not build the warlock to be the main party healer, but since the guy who picked the heal class won't do it...I'm stuck with it. Our wizard can't do it (the wizard who /wanted/ to play a cleric and support the team, but chose not to because the other guy wanted to be cleric) and our barbarian|rogue can't do it...so my celestial bard|warlock has to do it.
Sounds like everyone’s at fault. Paladins have an inherent healing ability, so preparing spells is no excuse. But you cannot expect a cleric to just heal. They get so many abilities for EVERYTHING that make them the best class, but people expect them to only heal for some reason. I think it’s unreasonable that they refuse to heal, AS A PALADIN.
No, it's not their job to be bored when nobody needs heals. When heals are necessary though, it /is/ their job. When the fighter goes down, it is the job of the cleric to get them back up. if the cleric doesn't actually do that, the cleric is failing at being a good teammate.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Because they are good at it. It's generally considered "their job". It's certainly not the fighter's, wizard's or rogue's job to heal.
My current party has a multi-class cleric|paladin in it, and he never buffs or heals...and it annoys most of the party. He considers himself a damage dealer. My warlock does most of the healing, and I did not build the warlock to be the main party healer, but since the guy who picked the heal class won't do it...I'm stuck with it. Our wizard can't do it (the wizard who /wanted/ to play a cleric and support the team, but chose not to because the other guy wanted to be cleric) and our barbarian|rogue can't do it...so my celestial bard|warlock has to do it.
Sounds like everyone’s at fault. Paladins have an inherent healing ability, so preparing spells is no excuse. But you cannot expect a cleric to just heal. They get so many abilities for EVERYTHING that make them the best class, but people expect them to only heal for some reason. I think it’s unreasonable that they refuse to heal, AS A PALADIN.
No, it's not their job to be bored when nobody needs heals. When heals are necessary though, it /is/ their job. When the fighter goes down, it is the job of the cleric to get them back up. if the cleric doesn't actually do that, the cleric is failing at being a good teammate.
Why is that the cleric, when bards and druids are just as effective?
Because they are good at it. It's generally considered "their job". It's certainly not the fighter's, wizard's or rogue's job to heal.
My current party has a multi-class cleric|paladin in it, and he never buffs or heals...and it annoys most of the party. He considers himself a damage dealer. My warlock does most of the healing, and I did not build the warlock to be the main party healer, but since the guy who picked the heal class won't do it...I'm stuck with it. Our wizard can't do it (the wizard who /wanted/ to play a cleric and support the team, but chose not to because the other guy wanted to be cleric) and our barbarian|rogue can't do it...so my celestial bard|warlock has to do it.
Sounds like everyone’s at fault. Paladins have an inherent healing ability, so preparing spells is no excuse. But you cannot expect a cleric to just heal. They get so many abilities for EVERYTHING that make them the best class, but people expect them to only heal for some reason. I think it’s unreasonable that they refuse to heal, AS A PALADIN.
No, it's not their job to be bored when nobody needs heals. When heals are necessary though, it /is/ their job. When the fighter goes down, it is the job of the cleric to get them back up. if the cleric doesn't actually do that, the cleric is failing at being a good teammate.
Why is that the cleric, when bards and druids are just as effective?
Because in older editions the class list was: Fighter, Thief, Arcane Magic User, Divine Magic User, Elf, Dwarf, and Halfling. (Yes, races were classes back then, don’t ask.) The only class on that list that could heal was the “Divine Magic User” eventually renamed as Cleric.
Because they are good at it. It's generally considered "their job". It's certainly not the fighter's, wizard's or rogue's job to heal.
My current party has a multi-class cleric|paladin in it, and he never buffs or heals...and it annoys most of the party. He considers himself a damage dealer. My warlock does most of the healing, and I did not build the warlock to be the main party healer, but since the guy who picked the heal class won't do it...I'm stuck with it. Our wizard can't do it (the wizard who /wanted/ to play a cleric and support the team, but chose not to because the other guy wanted to be cleric) and our barbarian|rogue can't do it...so my celestial bard|warlock has to do it.
Sounds like everyone’s at fault. Paladins have an inherent healing ability, so preparing spells is no excuse. But you cannot expect a cleric to just heal. They get so many abilities for EVERYTHING that make them the best class, but people expect them to only heal for some reason. I think it’s unreasonable that they refuse to heal, AS A PALADIN.
No, it's not their job to be bored when nobody needs heals. When heals are necessary though, it /is/ their job. When the fighter goes down, it is the job of the cleric to get them back up. if the cleric doesn't actually do that, the cleric is failing at being a good teammate.
Why is that the cleric, when bards and druids are just as effective?
Because clerics are also the best buffers in the game. If you don't have a cleric, then it's the bard or druid's job. Druids however, are built around their shape shifts and IIRC can't cast spells when shape shifted. Bards are more controllery. They both CAN heal, but are not given the kind of tools that clerics are to both heal, and put out significant damage (spiritual weapon and spirit guardians).
Clerics are flat out designed to be the healer class. They can do other things, but their job is to keep people on their feet. It's not just tradition, it's also class design. The other classes have to stop doing their jobs to heal, Clerics keep on keepin on while healing.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Because they are good at it. It's generally considered "their job". It's certainly not the fighter's, wizard's or rogue's job to heal.
My current party has a multi-class cleric|paladin in it, and he never buffs or heals...and it annoys most of the party. He considers himself a damage dealer. My warlock does most of the healing, and I did not build the warlock to be the main party healer, but since the guy who picked the heal class won't do it...I'm stuck with it. Our wizard can't do it (the wizard who /wanted/ to play a cleric and support the team, but chose not to because the other guy wanted to be cleric) and our barbarian|rogue can't do it...so my celestial bard|warlock has to do it.
Sounds like everyone’s at fault. Paladins have an inherent healing ability, so preparing spells is no excuse. But you cannot expect a cleric to just heal. They get so many abilities for EVERYTHING that make them the best class, but people expect them to only heal for some reason. I think it’s unreasonable that they refuse to heal, AS A PALADIN.
No, it's not their job to be bored when nobody needs heals. When heals are necessary though, it /is/ their job. When the fighter goes down, it is the job of the cleric to get them back up. if the cleric doesn't actually do that, the cleric is failing at being a good teammate.
Why is that the cleric, when bards and druids are just as effective?
Because clerics are also the best buffers in the game. If you don't have a cleric, then it's the bard or druid's job. Druids however, are built around their shape shifts and IIRC can't cast spells when shape shifted. Bards are more controllery. They both CAN heal, but are not given the kind of tools that clerics are to both heal, and put out significant damage (spiritual weapon and spirit guardians).
Clerics are flat out designed to be the healer class. They can do other things, but their job is to keep people on their feet. It's not just tradition, it's also class design. The other classes have to stop doing their jobs to heal, Clerics keep on keepin on while healing.
The bard's spells are mostly controlling encounters, and those spells eat up the bard's actions much more than a cleric who can bonus action attack nearly at will with spiritual weapon, plus heavy concentration damage with spirit guardians.
if you don't want to heal with your cleric, don't...but don't be surprised when your party is annoyed with you that you're not doing your job. Make no mistake, it IS part of the cleric's primary role.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Clerics, non-Moon Druids, Bards, Paladins, Divine Soul Sorcerers, and Celestial Warlocks all are capable of healing. It's one of the very very important questions that every party faces is what do we do when a person drops down to 0 health. Your party wants to make sure that it has a way to get someone back up when they drop down to 0 health. If you're a Bard in a party that doesn't have anyone else with healing spells, you will be expected to take Healing Word or Cure Wounds. This makes you capable of healing, but it doesn't make you a healer.
There's a difference between "I'm a healer" like a Restoration Druid or Restoration Shaman from World of Warcraft, and the "I can heal" of a Cleric or Druid in D&D. With the exception of the Life Cleric, you don't really have a healer in D&D. You just have players capable of doing healing that mostly focus on doing other things.
I think that the problem is that a minority of people haven't figured out that players fill more than one role in D&D. So this small minority of people thinks that healer is the *one role* for a Cleric. But the overwhelming majority of D&D players don't stereotype Clerics as healers. They do expect Clerics to take healing and restoration magic, but this isn't expecting them to be a healer.
Clerics, non-Moon Druids, Bards, Paladins, Divine Soul Sorcerers, and Celestial Warlocks all are capable of healing. It's one of the very very important questions that every party faces is what do we do when a person drops down to 0 health. Your party wants to make sure that it has a way to get someone back up when they drop down to 0 health. If you're a Bard in a party that doesn't have anyone else with healing spells, you will be expected to take Healing Word or Cure Wounds. This makes you capable of healing, but it doesn't make you a healer.
There's a difference between "I'm a healer" like a Restoration Druid or Restoration Shaman from World of Warcraft, and the "I can heal" of a Cleric or Druid in D&D. With the exception of the Life Cleric, you don't really have a healer in D&D. You just have players capable of doing healing that mostly focus on doing other things.
I think that the problem is that a minority of people haven't figured out that players fill more than one role in D&D. So this small minority of people thinks that healer is the *one role* for a Cleric. But the overwhelming majority of D&D players don't stereotype Clerics as healers. They do expect Clerics to take healing and restoration magic, but this isn't expecting them to be a healer.
I think this is a great post.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Technically, it is the responsibility of all party members to look out for each other. For some, like fighters and barbarians, that can mean continuing to attack when an ally goes down, but it might also mean grappling or pushing the monster back so that others can safely heal the wounded party member.
Clerics have very easy access to many healing abilities, which means it is generally quite easy to bring some amount of healing for the adventuring day. That said, artificers, druids, bards, paladins and even rangers all have similar access to healing spells. There is an expectation that the cleric is the healer solely for traditional means. I do not accept that it is a matter of class design, as other than a select few subclasses there aren't additional healing focused features beyond access to healing spells (which are also available to other classes, and several of those other classes have subclasses that ALSO have healing/support features).
What it comes down to is available actions and the turn order. If an ally goes down and there is a monster nearby to finish them off you can either use healing to get them above 0hp, or you can try to kill or control that monster. If there are several party member turns before that monster gets to go, it is totally reasonable to try to attack or control it before healing the party member. If there is only one party member with a turn before that monster can kill their friend, then that player should endeavor to save their friend by the most direct means, such as healing with spells or potions. This is because while it is possible that their friend might go down again, it is much less likely that they will die outright if they arent in death saves when they get hit.
If you dont have a way of healing the party member, then by all means try other things, including attacking, but even those without healing spells should try to save a party member if they are downed. You can do so by pulling their body away from danger, shoving the monster back... there is always something you can *try* to do.
There is an internal calculation that goes on when deciding what to do. If the paladin uses the attack action they might be able to get a critical smite on the monster, which might remove the creature; or they could use their action to cast a healing spell or use healing hands.. clerics have a range of options via spellcasting, but most of these require saving throws, which can situationally be harder to achieve than attack rolls as there are generally fewer modifiers (like advantage). This is also not taking into account that a strong creature that has downed your ally might have legendary resistance, so casting a spell on it might be a waste of a turn all together. Being able to keep your turns effective by healing is often a good choice for those with access and a target that needs healing... but that isnt just clerics.
Long but, GOOD post Creed. Team effort is a way more reasonable than assigning all player survival responsibilities to the cleric(or other heal capable class in the party).
Slightly off topic but, do most DMs and players assume that enemies Coupe De Grace downed characters? It has never occurred to my group that this would normally happen. The book says that most enemies are considered dead if downed and we play that most enemies would consider downed characters the same. Only particularly important or savage enemies would give or receive a killing blow. Some in our group are very adamant about non lethal force to capture, or even allow an enemy retreat.
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The cleric class basically just picks a role and instantly becomes the best thing in the game at that role. What about the War Domain in particular screams healer to so many? All are included (except Life and Grave because they’re made for that), but War stands out.
You can play a cleric that never heals, but the party's expectation is going to be that you buff and heal. It's the fact that it's a cleric, most people don't care much about what the cleric in the party's domain is...it's fluff that goes along with healing and buffs. You can choose to not do those things, but you're likely going to disappoint your party.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
I know, my question was why this is.
Because they are good at it. It's generally considered "their job". It's certainly not the fighter's, wizard's or rogue's job to heal.
My current party has a multi-class cleric|paladin in it, and he never buffs or heals...and it annoys most of the party. He considers himself a damage dealer. My warlock does most of the healing, and I did not build the warlock to be the main party healer, but since the guy who picked the heal class won't do it...I'm stuck with it. Our wizard can't do it (the wizard who /wanted/ to play a cleric and support the team, but chose not to because the other guy wanted to be cleric) and our barbarian|rogue can't do it...so my celestial bard|warlock has to do it.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Because in older editions the class list was: Fighter, Thief, Arcane Magic User, Divine Magic User, Elf, Dwarf, and Halfling. (Yes, races were classes back then, don’t ask.) The only class on that list that could heal was the “Divine Magic User” eventually renamed as Cleric.
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Sounds like everyone’s at fault. Paladins have an inherent healing ability, so preparing spells is no excuse. But you cannot expect a cleric to just heal. They get so many abilities for EVERYTHING that make them the best class, but people expect them to only heal for some reason. I think it’s unreasonable that they refuse to heal, AS A PALADIN.
Bottom line, Clerics have amazing healing and buffing features and can really stand out as a support class. I would say the same for Paladin and Druid. It took some time but, the Druid I play with finally realized that he could/should, heal and buff some of the time. I can speak from experience about using every one of my spell slots to heal being a bore. Healing in D&D is kind of underwhelming and should be considered as a last resort in my mind, you will rarely put out huge healing numbers to match the melee and spell damage output. Better to buff for damage reduction or debuff enemies, use Vampiric Touch to heal yourself, use one spell slot to cast an AoE to take out a group of enemies instead of 5 heals on your group because you let them them be the damage dealers. Think outside the box strategically and don't be afraid to let other players know that they should have healing potions, scrolls and other resources that can keep them alive.
No, it's not their job to be bored when nobody needs heals. When heals are necessary though, it /is/ their job. When the fighter goes down, it is the job of the cleric to get them back up. if the cleric doesn't actually do that, the cleric is failing at being a good teammate.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Why is that the cleric, when bards and druids are just as effective?
Because in older editions the class list was: Fighter, Thief, Arcane Magic User, Divine Magic User, Elf, Dwarf, and Halfling. (Yes, races were classes back then, don’t ask.) The only class on that list that could heal was the “Divine Magic User” eventually renamed as Cleric.
Basically, it’s tradition.
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Tradition!
Because clerics are also the best buffers in the game. If you don't have a cleric, then it's the bard or druid's job. Druids however, are built around their shape shifts and IIRC can't cast spells when shape shifted. Bards are more controllery. They both CAN heal, but are not given the kind of tools that clerics are to both heal, and put out significant damage (spiritual weapon and spirit guardians).
Clerics are flat out designed to be the healer class. They can do other things, but their job is to keep people on their feet. It's not just tradition, it's also class design. The other classes have to stop doing their jobs to heal, Clerics keep on keepin on while healing.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
How is it not a bard’s job?
The bard's spells are mostly controlling encounters, and those spells eat up the bard's actions much more than a cleric who can bonus action attack nearly at will with spiritual weapon, plus heavy concentration damage with spirit guardians.
if you don't want to heal with your cleric, don't...but don't be surprised when your party is annoyed with you that you're not doing your job. Make no mistake, it IS part of the cleric's primary role.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Because they’re the only ones with access to all of the healing spells, especially all the best healing spells.
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Clerics, non-Moon Druids, Bards, Paladins, Divine Soul Sorcerers, and Celestial Warlocks all are capable of healing. It's one of the very very important questions that every party faces is what do we do when a person drops down to 0 health. Your party wants to make sure that it has a way to get someone back up when they drop down to 0 health. If you're a Bard in a party that doesn't have anyone else with healing spells, you will be expected to take Healing Word or Cure Wounds. This makes you capable of healing, but it doesn't make you a healer.
There's a difference between "I'm a healer" like a Restoration Druid or Restoration Shaman from World of Warcraft, and the "I can heal" of a Cleric or Druid in D&D. With the exception of the Life Cleric, you don't really have a healer in D&D. You just have players capable of doing healing that mostly focus on doing other things.
I think that the problem is that a minority of people haven't figured out that players fill more than one role in D&D. So this small minority of people thinks that healer is the *one role* for a Cleric. But the overwhelming majority of D&D players don't stereotype Clerics as healers. They do expect Clerics to take healing and restoration magic, but this isn't expecting them to be a healer.
I agree, the whole healer, tank, striker, etc concept is pointless in D&D. But people like “builds.”
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I think this is a great post.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Technically, it is the responsibility of all party members to look out for each other. For some, like fighters and barbarians, that can mean continuing to attack when an ally goes down, but it might also mean grappling or pushing the monster back so that others can safely heal the wounded party member.
Clerics have very easy access to many healing abilities, which means it is generally quite easy to bring some amount of healing for the adventuring day. That said, artificers, druids, bards, paladins and even rangers all have similar access to healing spells. There is an expectation that the cleric is the healer solely for traditional means. I do not accept that it is a matter of class design, as other than a select few subclasses there aren't additional healing focused features beyond access to healing spells (which are also available to other classes, and several of those other classes have subclasses that ALSO have healing/support features).
What it comes down to is available actions and the turn order. If an ally goes down and there is a monster nearby to finish them off you can either use healing to get them above 0hp, or you can try to kill or control that monster. If there are several party member turns before that monster gets to go, it is totally reasonable to try to attack or control it before healing the party member. If there is only one party member with a turn before that monster can kill their friend, then that player should endeavor to save their friend by the most direct means, such as healing with spells or potions. This is because while it is possible that their friend might go down again, it is much less likely that they will die outright if they arent in death saves when they get hit.
If you dont have a way of healing the party member, then by all means try other things, including attacking, but even those without healing spells should try to save a party member if they are downed. You can do so by pulling their body away from danger, shoving the monster back... there is always something you can *try* to do.
There is an internal calculation that goes on when deciding what to do. If the paladin uses the attack action they might be able to get a critical smite on the monster, which might remove the creature; or they could use their action to cast a healing spell or use healing hands.. clerics have a range of options via spellcasting, but most of these require saving throws, which can situationally be harder to achieve than attack rolls as there are generally fewer modifiers (like advantage). This is also not taking into account that a strong creature that has downed your ally might have legendary resistance, so casting a spell on it might be a waste of a turn all together. Being able to keep your turns effective by healing is often a good choice for those with access and a target that needs healing... but that isnt just clerics.
Hmm.. bit long winded... sorry
Long but, GOOD post Creed. Team effort is a way more reasonable than assigning all player survival responsibilities to the cleric(or other heal capable class in the party).
Slightly off topic but, do most DMs and players assume that enemies Coupe De Grace downed characters? It has never occurred to my group that this would normally happen. The book says that most enemies are considered dead if downed and we play that most enemies would consider downed characters the same. Only particularly important or savage enemies would give or receive a killing blow. Some in our group are very adamant about non lethal force to capture, or even allow an enemy retreat.