Hello everybody! Come a little closer, take a cookie and listen up.
I am from Germany. Currently DMing Tomb Of Annihilation for my group. I can read and write English just fine. Same goes for my players. First we bought the German translations of the core books and even Xanathars Guide To Everything. But still, D&DB slowly creeped it's way into our game. It's just so god damn handy.
Of course there was a moment of saltyness when we realized that we had to buy the books multiple times (print, D&DB, roll20 for maps/vtt), but we understand. Every involved party had it's fair share of work converting the books into their product and retroactively subsidizing follow up sales of D&D products when there are multiple parties involved is probably close to impossible from a business perspective.
Now we are constantly juggling between the German prints and the English D&DB and oh boy is this annoying. Some things just have different names. This makes looking stuff up slow. Plus a thing we look up on D&DB gets remembered by it's english name which leads to a mix of English and German while speaking in character. Ruins the rpg aspect for us if somebody says "Ich caste meinen Elderitch Blast auf die Sea Hag". Sadly this happens for over 50% of the things we name from the D&D universe.
So here we are. Wanting to use D&DB so badly and, frankly, doing so more and more. But at the same time our roleplay is decreasing. This kind of English/German mix while talking feels more like playing a videogame and talking via Discord to us than playing out a character in a medieval world.
We understand that it's difficult from a business perspective to get the translation files from the German publisher. They worked hard on these translations. To make it even more complex it wouldn't even be a Curse<->German Publisher deal but a Curse<->WotC<->Hasbro(?)<->Galeforce Nine<->German Publisher deal (as far as we understand).
So me and my group talked about this and agreed on a compromise that would satisfy us big time. Maybe this is just as complex and difficult to archive as full translations. Maybe this is way more likely to get handwaved through a meeting where all parties are involved. We don't know. But maybe you guys know, so here it is:
We would really appreciate if we could get partial translations for names. Names of spells, monsters, items... you get the idea. Bonus points for translated narrative text boxes in adventure modules but tbh albeit it would slow me down a little bit I could just read through them and paraphrase it to my players in German.
Being able to turn on a second language in your D&DB settings and getting a translation of all proper names would increase our "roleplay flow" by a huge margin. A simple, bracketed translation that gets inserted after the name of a thing (that is unique to the D&D universe) would be enough. Wikipedia is already doing this in some articles.
Here is a quick & dirty mockup how it could look on D&DB:
(Just a quick HTML insert without worrying about styling)
I think that most DMs that complain about missing translations here or on Reddit don't even have a problem with getting the information out of an English rule- or adventure book. They probably just want to convert the D&D universe to the native language of all present players while playing.
DMs that absolutely need a full blown German translation probably aren't even aware of D&DB. Right now there is no way for a German DM to know D&DB if he or she doesn't hang out in English communities like Reddit or follows English D&D content on Youtube which begs the question if the German publisher would even "lose" any sales.
Names are just a thing that you often can't translate by just being good in the involved languages. For example a "Hag" is a "Vettel" in german. Good luck cross linking this between German books and English D&DB on the fly.
Hi there S4m3 and thank you for some really well thought through and presented feedback.
Feedback like this is really useful for staff. I am not involved in any development/commercials about language translations, but I know that it's something that the product team wants to be able to do, so I have forwarded your ideas to them.
As a native English speaker, I have no skin in this game. But wow! This is an extremely well thought out post. From stating the issue and recognizing problems inherit to a full blown solution, to coming up with a respectable compromise, this post does it all correctly.
From what I remember, they did a test run with the Italian version of the PHB, but it did not do very well financially, so they would not put any more resources towards translations and localizations in the near future.
FYI I found a german fan project site that tries to provide lists and tools for everything related to german D&D including workarounds for the problems of trying to play D&D with german rulebooks and DNDBeyond together like cross linking english and german spell names.
This is still far from perfect but maybe the devs from D&DB can get some inspiration from there for their work to make D&DB more accessible to an international customer base.
From what I remember, they did a test run with the Italian version of the PHB, but it did not do very well financially, so they would not put any more resources towards translations and localizations in the near future.
Lmao of course it didn't do well financially. It shouldn't have been a separate product to begin with. People using DDB are using mostly English sources, so they'll buy the English version of the PHB even if they are Italian just for consistency.
What OP is looking for, and what I believe they should have implemented, is a translation toggle. They own the PHB here, and want to be able to view the German version with a press of a button, maybe even switch between languages.
Leaving OGL 1.0(a) untouched and making SRD 5.1 CC-BY-4.0 is a great first step. The next is a promise to do the same for future editions. Here's a discussion thread on that.
Like I suggested in the original post we would be fine with "partial translations for names. Names of spells, monsters, items... you get the idea." :-) A toggle to insert german names for these would suffice to remove anglicisms from our table and keep the role playing flow.
From what I remember, they did a test run with the Italian version of the PHB, but it did not do very well financially, so they would not put any more resources towards translations and localizations in the near future.
Lmao of course it didn't do well financially. It shouldn't have been a separate product to begin with. People using DDB are using mostly English sources, so they'll buy the English version of the PHB even if they are Italian just for consistency.
What OP is looking for, and what I believe they should have implemented, is a translation toggle. They own the PHB here, and want to be able to view the German version with a press of a button, maybe even switch between languages.
They could have implemented a toggle, but like everything else in life, it costs money and/or time, and I do not think Beyond wants to do that until they are sure they can sell enough translations to cover the cost of implementation.
Like I suggested in the original post we would be fine with "partial translations for names. Names of spells, monsters, items... you get the idea." :-) A toggle to insert german names for these would suffice to remove anglicisms from our table and keep the role playing flow.
Besides cost, I think one thing that might get in the way of that implementation is that Beyond has to implement the most current books/errata faithfully to the best of their ability, so a partial implementation of that where they include the official name but not the official description means that they are not implementing the books/errata faithfully in other languages. Beyond and Wizards can probably carve out an exception for that, but Beyond has its plate full and got a bunch of other priorities and Wizards does not seem to be in any hurry to push multi language support to its digital partners.
Thanks for the thought out reply. I totally get the financial doubt.
Maybe it's reason enough that the anglicisms break immersion and roleplay flow for non-english players.
I'm a Dutch player and run my games in Dutch. My players generally don't feel immersion break from mixing in English terms with the Dutch storytelling. I'm just a sample size of 1, though.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Leaving OGL 1.0(a) untouched and making SRD 5.1 CC-BY-4.0 is a great first step. The next is a promise to do the same for future editions. Here's a discussion thread on that.
The issue comes into licensing. The translated versions of the physical books are(were) created and distributed by a third party. So WOTC may not be able to make digital versions of the books in certain languages until their license agreement with whomever translated it ends.
That's great to hear, thanks for the link! I agree that licensing is probably the biggest issue at hand here. Ullisses games (german publisher of The Dark Eye) made the german translations on behalf of Galeforce Nine which sounds like difficult terrain for any projects involving the translation licensing.
Hello everybody! Come a little closer, take a cookie and listen up.
I am from Germany. Currently DMing Tomb Of Annihilation for my group. I can read and write English just fine. Same goes for my players. First we bought the German translations of the core books and even Xanathars Guide To Everything. But still, D&DB slowly creeped it's way into our game. It's just so god damn handy.
Of course there was a moment of saltyness when we realized that we had to buy the books multiple times (print, D&DB, roll20 for maps/vtt), but we understand. Every involved party had it's fair share of work converting the books into their product and retroactively subsidizing follow up sales of D&D products when there are multiple parties involved is probably close to impossible from a business perspective.
Now we are constantly juggling between the German prints and the English D&DB and oh boy is this annoying. Some things just have different names. This makes looking stuff up slow. Plus a thing we look up on D&DB gets remembered by it's english name which leads to a mix of English and German while speaking in character. Ruins the rpg aspect for us if somebody says "Ich caste meinen Elderitch Blast auf die Sea Hag". Sadly this happens for over 50% of the things we name from the D&D universe.
So here we are. Wanting to use D&DB so badly and, frankly, doing so more and more. But at the same time our roleplay is decreasing. This kind of English/German mix while talking feels more like playing a videogame and talking via Discord to us than playing out a character in a medieval world.
We understand that it's difficult from a business perspective to get the translation files from the German publisher. They worked hard on these translations. To make it even more complex it wouldn't even be a Curse<->German Publisher deal but a Curse<->WotC<->Hasbro(?)<->Galeforce Nine<->German Publisher deal (as far as we understand).
So me and my group talked about this and agreed on a compromise that would satisfy us big time. Maybe this is just as complex and difficult to archive as full translations. Maybe this is way more likely to get handwaved through a meeting where all parties are involved. We don't know. But maybe you guys know, so here it is:
We would really appreciate if we could get partial translations for names. Names of spells, monsters, items... you get the idea. Bonus points for translated narrative text boxes in adventure modules but tbh albeit it would slow me down a little bit I could just read through them and paraphrase it to my players in German.
Being able to turn on a second language in your D&DB settings and getting a translation of all proper names would increase our "roleplay flow" by a huge margin. A simple, bracketed translation that gets inserted after the name of a thing (that is unique to the D&D universe) would be enough. Wikipedia is already doing this in some articles.
Here is a quick & dirty mockup how it could look on D&DB:
(Just a quick HTML insert without worrying about styling)
I think that most DMs that complain about missing translations here or on Reddit don't even have a problem with getting the information out of an English rule- or adventure book. They probably just want to convert the D&D universe to the native language of all present players while playing.
DMs that absolutely need a full blown German translation probably aren't even aware of D&DB. Right now there is no way for a German DM to know D&DB if he or she doesn't hang out in English communities like Reddit or follows English D&D content on Youtube which begs the question if the German publisher would even "lose" any sales.
Names are just a thing that you often can't translate by just being good in the involved languages. For example a "Hag" is a "Vettel" in german. Good luck cross linking this between German books and English D&DB on the fly.
Hi there S4m3 and thank you for some really well thought through and presented feedback.
Feedback like this is really useful for staff. I am not involved in any development/commercials about language translations, but I know that it's something that the product team wants to be able to do, so I have forwarded your ideas to them.
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As a native English speaker, I have no skin in this game. But wow! This is an extremely well thought out post. From stating the issue and recognizing problems inherit to a full blown solution, to coming up with a respectable compromise, this post does it all correctly.
Thanks! Glad to hear it got forwarded.
Yes I am Just english myself but I am of the thought more players/dungeon masters = more ideas = better games.
Looks like we got a compromise regarding translations: https://www.dndbeyond.com/changelog/651-italian-players-handbook-compendium-only
Great! :-)
Is there any update on localization in DNDB?
From what I remember, they did a test run with the Italian version of the PHB, but it did not do very well financially, so they would not put any more resources towards translations and localizations in the near future.
Check Licenses and Resync Entitlements: < https://www.dndbeyond.com/account/licenses >
Running the Game by Matt Colville; Introduction: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-YZvLUXcR8 >
D&D with High School Students by Bill Allen; Season 1 Episode 1: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52NJTUDokyk&t >
Alright, thanks for the summary of recent events! Very interesting to see that WotC is still committing on making D&D a global thing.
FYI I found a german fan project site that tries to provide lists and tools for everything related to german D&D including workarounds for the problems of trying to play D&D with german rulebooks and DNDBeyond together like cross linking english and german spell names.
This is still far from perfect but maybe the devs from D&DB can get some inspiration from there for their work to make D&DB more accessible to an international customer base.
Any update on internationalisation of DNDB?
Lmao of course it didn't do well financially. It shouldn't have been a separate product to begin with. People using DDB are using mostly English sources, so they'll buy the English version of the PHB even if they are Italian just for consistency.
What OP is looking for, and what I believe they should have implemented, is a translation toggle. They own the PHB here, and want to be able to view the German version with a press of a button, maybe even switch between languages.
Leaving OGL 1.0(a) untouched and making SRD 5.1 CC-BY-4.0 is a great first step. The next is a promise to do the same for future editions. Here's a discussion thread on that.
#OpenDnD
DDB is great, but it could be better. Here are some things I think could improve DDB
Like I suggested in the original post we would be fine with "partial translations for names. Names of spells, monsters, items... you get the idea." :-) A toggle to insert german names for these would suffice to remove anglicisms from our table and keep the role playing flow.
They could have implemented a toggle, but like everything else in life, it costs money and/or time, and I do not think Beyond wants to do that until they are sure they can sell enough translations to cover the cost of implementation.
Besides cost, I think one thing that might get in the way of that implementation is that Beyond has to implement the most current books/errata faithfully to the best of their ability, so a partial implementation of that where they include the official name but not the official description means that they are not implementing the books/errata faithfully in other languages. Beyond and Wizards can probably carve out an exception for that, but Beyond has its plate full and got a bunch of other priorities and Wizards does not seem to be in any hurry to push multi language support to its digital partners.
Check Licenses and Resync Entitlements: < https://www.dndbeyond.com/account/licenses >
Running the Game by Matt Colville; Introduction: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-YZvLUXcR8 >
D&D with High School Students by Bill Allen; Season 1 Episode 1: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52NJTUDokyk&t >
Thanks for the thought out reply. I totally get the financial doubt.
Maybe it's reason enough that the anglicisms break immersion and roleplay flow for non-english players.
I'm a Dutch player and run my games in Dutch. My players generally don't feel immersion break from mixing in English terms with the Dutch storytelling. I'm just a sample size of 1, though.
Leaving OGL 1.0(a) untouched and making SRD 5.1 CC-BY-4.0 is a great first step. The next is a promise to do the same for future editions. Here's a discussion thread on that.
#OpenDnD
DDB is great, but it could be better. Here are some things I think could improve DDB
The issue comes into licensing. The translated versions of the physical books are(were) created and distributed by a third party. So WOTC may not be able to make digital versions of the books in certain languages until their license agreement with whomever translated it ends.
They very recently got the rights for some languages back (https://www.enworld.org/threads/wotc-takes-control-of-d-d-translations.680614/)
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That's great to hear, thanks for the link! I agree that licensing is probably the biggest issue at hand here. Ullisses games (german publisher of The Dark Eye) made the german translations on behalf of Galeforce Nine which sounds like difficult terrain for any projects involving the translation licensing.
Well, looks like translations are never going to be on the roadmap.