I've been trying to create a handful of homebrewed things to use privately. One of them started as a feat, but I realized after the fact that it would probably be easier, and certainly make more sense, to do it as a custom race/subrace/variant. In the end, I made it a Variant Race (of a Human, if that matters). And, in fact, it was certainly a bit easier and much more fitting that way. And everything worked! Except one thing:
As one of the features of the feat (originally)/variant race (now), the character is supposed to gain a "minimum" STR/DEX/CON scores of 16. To do this, I added a Modifier and used the Set modifier with Strength/Dexterity/Constitution Score. This worked exactly as expected when it was on the feat, using the actual calculated value of each of those scores if it was naturally higher than 16, and otherwise setting it to 16. But on the variant race, it does nothing, despite being set up the same way.
Here's some screengrabs to show the setup and results:
Modifiers on feat:
Attribute scores w/ feat - notice the "Set Score" field, and "Total Score" values being equal to or greater than those values:
As it appears on character sheet w/ feat:
Modifiers on racial trait (damage resistance/vulnerability was moved to an additional racial trait):
Attribute scores w/ racial trait - notice "Set Score" field is blank/zero across the board, and "Total Score" fields are unchanged
As it appears on character sheet w/ racial trait:
Senses category on character sheet w/ racial trait - notice that 120ft Darkvision is being granted correctly by the racial trait, indicating that it is in fact found, but the Set Scores are not working:
As you can see, nothing is changed between how the modifiers are setup (except I added a description to the ones on the racial trait, in case it showed up anywhere on the sheet - but before that it was identical and still didn't work). In addition, as mentioned, every other aspect of the race, including all other modifiers, actions, etc., show up correctly, including one other modifier from the same racial trait that is supposed to set the scores.
I'd like to not have to manually override the scores on the character sheet, since it worked exactly as intended on the feat version, but in all other ways the subrace method is the better option.
The modifier "Set - [Ability] Score" doesn't work for Races, but it does for Feats and Magic Items.
Unfortunately, the system isn't currently able to "leave out" modifiers from the dropdown when they would have no effect on a particular type of homebrew.
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Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
Unfortunate indeed. Do you happen to know why or if there are any plans to change that in the future?
The homebrew tools are just (very) slighly prettied up versions of the tools the devs use for official content, with a few restrictions on what we have access to. A homebrew revamp is on the roadmap, although last I knew it was in the "eventually" category; it's not something that's been discussed in the dev updates any time recently. So I don't anticipate it happening in 2021; personally I wouldn't expect it in 2022 either, but I hope for the sake of homebrewers that I'm wrong about that.
The system is programmed to do the things that the official content does. “Modifier:Set” is made to implement stuff like the various Belts of Giant Strength, and the [Tooltip Not Found]. Feats have access to that because of stuff like the Medium Armor Master feat.
Races use that Modifier for stuff like the Natural Armor trait. So they need access to the modifier, but since none of the official base/sub/variant races have any traits that “set” an ability score to a fixed integer but “has no effect on you if your Ability score is equal to or greater than the belt’s score,” they haven’t told the system to allow that “Tab A” to fit into that “Slot B.” So the Modifier works perfectly, but the Subtype isn’t compatible with those categories of content. And as naruhoodie mentioned, the system doesn’t hide inactive modifier subtypes from one type of ‘brew to another. (It isn’t really a “homebrewer” you see, it was designed for the official DDB developers to implement official content and we’re only allowed limited access to use it.)
So if WotC ever writes a base/sub/variant race that “sets” an ability score to a fixed number “unless the score would otherwise be higher without it” then DDB would have to flip the right switches to accommodate the official content. But I gotta tell you, that’s reeaaally not likely to happen.
Forget your ‘brew that would do it to all three stats, if they even made a race that set one of those three to 16 like that it would throw the whole system out of whack. If someone picks a “main stat” that they plan to improve, then at least half of their first ASI would be “wasted” bringing their “without it” score up to 16. Like if a Fighter player picks Strength and puts their 15 into Strength then at 4th level if that player puts 2 points into Str, the first would just tie the 16 and the second would only get it to 17 and the PC would get no benefit to their modifier until the next ASI at 6th. The other likely Str builders (Barbarians & Paladins) would have to wait until 8th level. (Same problem for Dex builds.) And most PCs can get their “second stat” to 16 (or higher) by 20th level too so it isn’t worth picking that stat for this trait either in those cases either. So ultimately this would likely end up doing one of two things:
It would make MAD builds easier to pull off allowing some folks to have a good time, a lot of Barbarian, Monk, and Ranger builds for instance. It would also make it easier for others out there to pull off some of the cheesiest @$$ $|-|!7 you’ve never heard of before because of how hard it is to pull because of ability scores.
It would effectively eliminate dump stats, which would result in effectively changing the Standard Array to 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 16; and it would essentially increase the Point Buy spread from 27 to 38 points. (Or, another way to think of it is that it would be the equivalent of cutting one of those three Abilities out of character creation, and most of the rest of the game too.
Now, those Wizards don’t have to choose between Dex or Con as their second stat, they can eventually have both up to 16 aaannd their Int up 20, and still have leftovers for Wis, Cha both too (to pass those Checks and boost those Saves). And that would be if they made a race that let someone pick just one of those three. All three would be even worse. Using Point Buy, every Artificer, Bard, Cleric, Druid, Sorcerer, Warlock and Wizard would start as a 1st-level PC with an array of 16, 16, 16, 15, 15, 15; and everybody else would hate it because if they took that race it would actively punish them for it by forcing them to “waste” both their high numbers and their ASIs just to overcome those 16 and still leave them with 3 low stats.
I don't anticipate it happening in 2021; personally I wouldn't expect it in 2022 either, but I hope for the sake of homebrewers that I'm wrong about that.
My expectation is somewhere between 3rd quarter 2023 to Q3 ‘24 myself.
Forget your ‘brew that would do it to all three stats, if they even made a race that set one of those three to 16 like that it would throw the whole system out of whack.
Oh, I'm fully aware that this kind of mechanic would be blatantly overpowered on a freely-selectable race. But this is for a very custom character for limited private use, not to publish/let people go ham with, so I'm not worried about breaking the game. (Spoiler alert, it's vampiric - so the "minimum 16 physical stats" aspect is intended to replicate the 18/18/18 of a Vampire and the fact that a player character transformed into a vampire also has their physical attributes set to a minimum of 18, per the Monster Manual.)
In any case, thanks for all the replies folks. Interesting to get a better understanding of why some things work and others just... don't, despite the fact that, based on my experience as a dev, it would probably in fact be easier to make all "Modifiers" work the same, regardless of source. Unfortunately in this case it looks like I'll have to manually set some overrides, which isn't the end of the world but would be nice not to have to worry about.
Long ago, DDB was only allowed to create functionality capable of implementing the official published races/classes/items/feats/backgrounds/etc., and nothing more. They've since been released from that restriction, but the system they wound up building was consequently much harder to shoehorn changes into. This is why they've been working on a better, more generalized features system; but in the meantime, they've had a massive existing userbase to support, and each new publication from Wizards to implement ASAP as well as they could with the resources and system they had. So yeah, not ideal, but we're alllll looking forward to migrating to the new system once it's ready for prime-time -- the developers most of all, I assume.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
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I've been trying to create a handful of homebrewed things to use privately. One of them started as a feat, but I realized after the fact that it would probably be easier, and certainly make more sense, to do it as a custom race/subrace/variant. In the end, I made it a Variant Race (of a Human, if that matters). And, in fact, it was certainly a bit easier and much more fitting that way. And everything worked! Except one thing:
As one of the features of the feat (originally)/variant race (now), the character is supposed to gain a "minimum" STR/DEX/CON scores of 16. To do this, I added a Modifier and used the Set modifier with Strength/Dexterity/Constitution Score. This worked exactly as expected when it was on the feat, using the actual calculated value of each of those scores if it was naturally higher than 16, and otherwise setting it to 16. But on the variant race, it does nothing, despite being set up the same way.
Here's some screengrabs to show the setup and results:
Modifiers on feat:
Attribute scores w/ feat - notice the "Set Score" field, and "Total Score" values being equal to or greater than those values:
As it appears on character sheet w/ feat:
Modifiers on racial trait (damage resistance/vulnerability was moved to an additional racial trait):
Attribute scores w/ racial trait - notice "Set Score" field is blank/zero across the board, and "Total Score" fields are unchanged
As it appears on character sheet w/ racial trait:
Senses category on character sheet w/ racial trait - notice that 120ft Darkvision is being granted correctly by the racial trait, indicating that it is in fact found, but the Set Scores are not working:
As you can see, nothing is changed between how the modifiers are setup (except I added a description to the ones on the racial trait, in case it showed up anywhere on the sheet - but before that it was identical and still didn't work). In addition, as mentioned, every other aspect of the race, including all other modifiers, actions, etc., show up correctly, including one other modifier from the same racial trait that is supposed to set the scores.
I'd like to not have to manually override the scores on the character sheet, since it worked exactly as intended on the feat version, but in all other ways the subrace method is the better option.
The modifier "Set - [Ability] Score" doesn't work for Races, but it does for Feats and Magic Items.
Unfortunately, the system isn't currently able to "leave out" modifiers from the dropdown when they would have no effect on a particular type of homebrew.
Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
Unfortunate indeed. Do you happen to know why or if there are any plans to change that in the future?
The homebrew tools are just (very) slighly prettied up versions of the tools the devs use for official content, with a few restrictions on what we have access to. A homebrew revamp is on the roadmap, although last I knew it was in the "eventually" category; it's not something that's been discussed in the dev updates any time recently. So I don't anticipate it happening in 2021; personally I wouldn't expect it in 2022 either, but I hope for the sake of homebrewers that I'm wrong about that.
Trying to Decide if DDB is for you? A few helpful threads: A Buyer's Guide to DDB; What I/We Bought and Why; How some DMs use DDB; A Newer Thread on Using DDB to Play
Helpful threads on other topics: Homebrew FAQ by IamSposta; Accessing Content by ConalTheGreat;
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The system is programmed to do the things that the official content does. “Modifier:Set” is made to implement stuff like the various Belts of Giant Strength, and the [Tooltip Not Found]. Feats have access to that because of stuff like the Medium Armor Master feat.
Races use that Modifier for stuff like the Natural Armor trait. So they need access to the modifier, but since none of the official base/sub/variant races have any traits that “set” an ability score to a fixed integer but “has no effect on you if your Ability score is equal to or greater than the belt’s score,” they haven’t told the system to allow that “Tab A” to fit into that “Slot B.” So the Modifier works perfectly, but the Subtype isn’t compatible with those categories of content. And as naruhoodie mentioned, the system doesn’t hide inactive modifier subtypes from one type of ‘brew to another. (It isn’t really a “homebrewer” you see, it was designed for the official DDB developers to implement official content and we’re only allowed limited access to use it.)
So if WotC ever writes a base/sub/variant race that “sets” an ability score to a fixed number “unless the score would otherwise be higher without it” then DDB would have to flip the right switches to accommodate the official content. But I gotta tell you, that’s reeaaally not likely to happen.
Forget your ‘brew that would do it to all three stats, if they even made a race that set one of those three to 16 like that it would throw the whole system out of whack. If someone picks a “main stat” that they plan to improve, then at least half of their first ASI would be “wasted” bringing their “without it” score up to 16. Like if a Fighter player picks Strength and puts their 15 into Strength then at 4th level if that player puts 2 points into Str, the first would just tie the 16 and the second would only get it to 17 and the PC would get no benefit to their modifier until the next ASI at 6th. The other likely Str builders (Barbarians & Paladins) would have to wait until 8th level. (Same problem for Dex builds.) And most PCs can get their “second stat” to 16 (or higher) by 20th level too so it isn’t worth picking that stat for this trait either in those cases either. So ultimately this would likely end up doing one of two things:
Now, those Wizards don’t have to choose between Dex or Con as their second stat, they can eventually have both up to 16 aaannd their Int up 20, and still have leftovers for Wis, Cha both too (to pass those Checks and boost those Saves). And that would be if they made a race that let someone pick just one of those three. All three would be even worse. Using Point Buy, every Artificer, Bard, Cleric, Druid, Sorcerer, Warlock and Wizard would start as a 1st-level PC with an array of 16, 16, 16, 15, 15, 15; and everybody else would hate it because if they took that race it would actively punish them for it by forcing them to “waste” both their high numbers and their ASIs just to overcome those 16 and still leave them with 3 low stats.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
My expectation is somewhere between 3rd quarter 2023 to Q3 ‘24 myself.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Oh, I'm fully aware that this kind of mechanic would be blatantly overpowered on a freely-selectable race. But this is for a very custom character for limited private use, not to publish/let people go ham with, so I'm not worried about breaking the game. (Spoiler alert, it's vampiric - so the "minimum 16 physical stats" aspect is intended to replicate the 18/18/18 of a Vampire and the fact that a player character transformed into a vampire also has their physical attributes set to a minimum of 18, per the Monster Manual.)
In any case, thanks for all the replies folks. Interesting to get a better understanding of why some things work and others just... don't, despite the fact that, based on my experience as a dev, it would probably in fact be easier to make all "Modifiers" work the same, regardless of source. Unfortunately in this case it looks like I'll have to manually set some overrides, which isn't the end of the world but would be nice not to have to worry about.
Long ago, DDB was only allowed to create functionality capable of implementing the official published races/classes/items/feats/backgrounds/etc., and nothing more. They've since been released from that restriction, but the system they wound up building was consequently much harder to shoehorn changes into. This is why they've been working on a better, more generalized features system; but in the meantime, they've had a massive existing userbase to support, and each new publication from Wizards to implement ASAP as well as they could with the resources and system they had. So yeah, not ideal, but we're alllll looking forward to migrating to the new system once it's ready for prime-time -- the developers most of all, I assume.
Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)