https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Past_Level_20_(5e_Variant_Rule) Ummmmmm, Wizards of the coast has recognized play past level 20 I'm pretty sure since literally first edition. Sooooooooooo.....
*Replying to admin saying that wizards needs to add rules for past level 20 in order for it to be on DndBeyond
Nobody is saying that Wizards of the Coast has never done beyond level 20; different editions have had different level scalings historically. And some editions have had level caps and some have not. However, the 5th edition of D&D does not have rules for level 21+. Which leads to my second point
DanDwiki is a 100% unofficial site full of unofficial content. Those rules you linked are not in any shape or form official rules. Ergo, D&D Beyond does not support them
Here's my thing with that,
First of all, the admin that I was replying to, if you read what they said, said that it was unsupported in D&D as a general catch all. I was saying that is simply not true. It has been supported in some capacity since the 80's. So claiming that it's a WotC thing is just disingenuous. Secondly, I understand that DnDBeyond is primarily a 5e site, but flat out saying they will never support other editions or features from other editions seems like a bad business practice to me. Especially considering that a significant portion of the D&D community still plays 3.5e (I know that where I'm located, most of the local D&D facebook groups are 3.5e focused) Third of all, DnDBeyond claims to support homebrew, as evidenced by the giant section painted all over the site for homebrew content. I haven't the slightest clue why this couldn't be something that could very easily be a homebrew option, that people could write brackets for and choose to include in their campaigns. But thinking of that, the homebrew functionality on DnDBeyond is utterly broken. It's literally impossible to change damage dice on custom items, even though the option is supposedly there, it simply does not work and there are countless forum posts online about how to get the functionality to work as intended. Custom spells seem to be jankier than anything unless you spend hours fenagling them, and custom feats turn out to simply be a glorified description that sits on your character sheet. DnDBeyond isn't actually intending to create functionality for the things that most players want. It's a wonderful tool, and I think that with the proper care and listening to the community could very well be the end all be all for D&D tools, but the team doesn't seem to care much about their customers/community. Take this one post for example, 80 replies, and the vast majority of them are players who are agreeing that they would love to see this functionality added in some capacity. Why can't DnDBeyond think of any possible way to give anything resembling an option for these people? They don't want to. That's the main problem here, and before you say something to the effect of "Oh our partnership and copyrights and regulations blah blah blah" I would point you to numerous other sites and tools that are operating under the same rules and regulations that already have these features fully fleshed out and ready for players to use. If questions like this were answered with the truth which is "Here at DnDBeyond, we really don't want to add that feature" then it would be a different story. That might not make people happy but at least it would be a justified answer. Not this nonsense shrouded in partial truths and misdirection. I really do enjoy using DnDBeyond as a tool to help me run and play in games, but when it comes to the thing that keeps the lights on at DnDBeyond HQ, I'm not sure if I feel comfortable spending hundreds of dollars on sourcebooks here. I don't think that the team has the motivation or competency to make any kind of longevity for the platform. When I first started planning out the first campaign I'd be running on DnDBeyond, I immediately hit a brick wall of problems. Searching for solutions, I got hit with an administrative wall of half truths on why the team refuses to add functionality that the majority of actual DnD games use outside of AL. I found that if I wanted to buy a module on DnDBeyond and run it from the site, it would be absolutely seamless. If I wanted to run an actual campaign the way that I would estimate probably 60-70% of the real world D&D community runs games, it would be an absolute nightmare of trying to find solutions to problems that shouldn't exist and settling for partial functionality of something that is literally advertised as a selling point for the service. I don't understand how anyone thinks that could possibly be a good business model, especially when a huge portion of their own customer demographic is constantly crying out that it's not. Can you explain that to me?
I'll address the points you've made, because I can assure you things aren't quite as you think they are
D&D Beyond is a toolset for the 5th edition of D&D and the 5th edition only. DDB only ever aims to support the official rules Wizards of the Coast puts out for that edition. As such, it is not disingenuous to say it's a WotC thing. D&D Beyond cannot make up rules for D&D; WotC has to release the rules for us to support them.
D&D Beyond is 100% a toolset for 5th edition dungeons and dragons and has no intention at this time to support other editions. As such, rules found in those editions have no bearing on how the tools provided here function.
D&D Beyond supports homebrew content, but all the modifiers we provide for the homebrew tools are modifiers that already exist within the game. If an official release cannot do it, our homebrew tools do not offer it as an option. There are limitations such as base classes and mundane items, which have been requested and the team is aware of the desire for. However, the tools intentionally do not permit homebrew that changes the core rules of the game, such as the level cap.
"numerous other sites and tools that are operating under the same rules and regulations that already have these features fully fleshed out and ready for players to use" as far as I'm aware, Wizards of the Coast has only three digital partners (roll20, Fantasy Grounds, and D&D Beyond). Of those, only DDB actually offers homebrew tools, the other two simply offer form fillable characters sheets.
The honest truth is simple; D&D Beyond cannot make up rules or rules frameworks for the game. Levels 21+ would be a whole new rules framework that does not exist in 5th edition D&D, so DDB can't implement it.
As for your final point, it's important to remember that D&D is a lot of games to a lot of people and it would be frankly impossible for any digital toolset to support all of those possible games. D&D Beyond is, first and foremost, a toolset for D&D as presented in the official rulebooks. I'm sorry if that doesn't meet your needs, or the needs of others, but that's always been DDBs mission statement; to make playing D&D as you find it in the books as seamless as possible.
Because by 5E rules levels do not go above 20. This is character level. A 10th level Rogue, 10th level Wizard is already 20th level.
No, they are only 10th. Otherwise your rouge class would have all the skills etc of level 20. Do they? No. So 10th in each class. If both classes were level 20 THEN, they would be a true 20th level. Under current guidelines, you’re severely handicapped at 10th if you evenly dual class, 6th if you evenly triple class. Which is why, since 1st edition, we always cap at level 100, and one of the first things we would all do is take our favorite classes each and layout all the XP tables etc, then put them in a binder for the whole. D&D “rules” are guidelines. It’s your world, play how you want, the way it was intended. For example, we completely overhaul magic to a spell point system. How many times you cast spell A, depends on how many points you have remaining. Thus, higher level spells drain a mage faster than lower level spells, which is how magic is done in most books.
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Known in other realms as Ranxaeroth.
“Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and good with bar-b-que sauce.” ~Cheshire Dragon
”You can fool most of the people most of the time, but a Sphinx….never.” ~Torwyn Vantalion.
“When the DM smiles, its already to late.” ~many a player.
Because by 5E rules levels do not go above 20. This is character level. A 10th level Rogue, 10th level Wizard is already 20th level.
No, they are only 10th. Otherwise your rouge class would have all the skills etc of level 20. Do they? No. So 10th in each class. If both classes were level 20 THEN, they would be a true 20th level. Under current guidelines, you’re severely handicapped at 10th if you evenly dual class, 6th if you evenly triple class. Which is why, since 1st edition, we always cap at level 100, and one of the first things we would all do is take our favorite classes each and layout all the XP tables etc, then put them in a binder for the whole. D&D “rules” are guidelines. It’s your world, play how you want, the way it was intended. For example, we completely overhaul magic to a spell point system. How many times you cast spell A, depends on how many points you have remaining. Thus, higher level spells drain a mage faster than lower level spells, which is how magic is done in most books.
RAW, your character level is the sum of all of your class levels. Characters are capped at 20th level. If you are a lvl 10 Rogue, lvl 10 Wizard, then you are a 20th level character and can no longer gain class levels.
That is RAW, and so that’s what is supported. They didn’t build the system to support houserules like yours, and hey built it to support RAW. (They don’t support my houserules either. It’s not anything personal, just the way the cookie crumbles.)
I guess what we’re saying is that adding a button to remove lvl caps doesn’t sound like much of an ask..
It wouldn’t be just “adding a button” though. There are how many different classes? 13? (Not including Blood Hunter.) That would require them to take the system that currently stops at Character level 20, and program it to go all the way up to 260 (280 for the blood hunter). It isn’t a “simple button,” it’s a whole shedload of programming for a feature that 90% of users would never even have an option to use (because most campaigns end by 15th level), and 90% of those that would hit level 20 wouldn’t use anyway because most folks don’t even use the epic boons, they just start a new campaign. That’s a ridiculous amount of work for something that only 1% of their users would actually use.
Because by 5E rules levels do not go above 20. This is character level. A 10th level Rogue, 10th level Wizard is already 20th level.
“D&D “rules” are guidelines. It’s your world, play how you want, the way it was intended. “
RAW, your character level is the sum of all of your class levels. Characters are capped at 20th level. If you are a lvl 10 Rogue, l gel 10 Wizard, then you are a 20th level character and can no longer gain class levels.
That is RAW, and so that’s what is supported. They didn’t build the system to support houserules like yours, and hey built it to support RAW. (They don’t support my houserules either. It’s not anything personal, just the way the cookie crumbles.)
I get what you’re saying, but I disagree with your math. If you are a 10th lvl Rogue, 10th lvl Wizard, per your analogy, you say you are 20th level. I say no, you are only A 10th level of either. So, effectively only 10th level. Never able to advance to anything further. You say, 20th, but your rouge only has 10th level skills etc and your wizard can only cast 2 5th lvl spells tops. Doesn’t sound very 20th to me. Yes, the combined parts can be powerful if played properly, however, your DM, if they know what they are doing, can still challenge the party or kill you, regardless of level so….
The point being, I and my group do not believe in level caps as they can put folks off playing Not sure about you, but we put a lot of time into characters. There’s no such thing as simply starting over. I get it, many don’t and that’s cool, but there are many who do. As it is fairly quick to level 10, it wouldn’t seem to make sense to get to involved with a PC and their background, as “tomorrow we die”…..or get retired……or continue to play with no advancement possible.
another person stated, “…most campaigns end at 15th level anyway…”. But you’ll never get there as you are never going past 10th…..and that’s the DM’s fault if they do, but that’s a whole other thing.
Everyone has their own opinions and that’s cool. I think 5E broke some good things, but, as any DM, rules are guidelines in this game. Any module can be first level and, conversely, any module can be “epic level”. How that happens, or not, is up to the DM. If the DM can’t work that out….are they really?
I realize, D&D Beyond is a third party platform. Who will only go with “official” written works and that’s fine. It’s their system and they do whatever they want with it.
I’ve also taken their advice and am going to WoTC regarding level caps etc, as should those who don’t like being cut off at 10th level anything. My thoughts, my opinion. No one is required to like them, or even agree with them.
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Known in other realms as Ranxaeroth.
“Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and good with bar-b-que sauce.” ~Cheshire Dragon
”You can fool most of the people most of the time, but a Sphinx….never.” ~Torwyn Vantalion.
“When the DM smiles, its already to late.” ~many a player.
Because by 5E rules levels do not go above 20. This is character level. A 10th level Rogue, 10th level Wizard is already 20th level.
“D&D “rules” are guidelines. It’s your world, play how you want, the way it was intended. “
RAW, your character level is the sum of all of your class levels. Characters are capped at 20th level. If you are a lvl 10 Rogue, l gel 10 Wizard, then you are a 20th level character and can no longer gain class levels.
That is RAW, and so that’s what is supported. They didn’t build the system to support houserules like yours, and hey built it to support RAW. (They don’t support my houserules either. It’s not anything personal, just the way the cookie crumbles.)
I get what you’re saying, but I disagree with your math. If you are a 10th lvl Rogue, 10th lvl Wizard, per your analogy, you say you are 20th level. I say no, you are only A 10th level of either. So, effectively only 10th level. Never able to advance to anything further. You say, 20th, but your rouge only has 10th level skills etc and your wizard can only cast 2 5th lvl spells tops. Doesn’t sound very 20th to me. Yes, the combined parts can be powerful if played properly, however, your DM, if they know what they are doing, can still challenge the party or kill you, regardless of level so….
The point being, I and my group do not believe in level caps as they can put folks off playing Not sure about you, but we put a lot of time into characters. There’s no such thing as simply starting over. I get it, many don’t and that’s cool, but there are many who do. As it is fairly quick to level 10, it wouldn’t seem to make sense to get to involved with a PC and their background, as “tomorrow we die”…..or get retired……or continue to play with no advancement possible.
another person stated, “…most campaigns end at 15th level anyway…”. But you’ll never get there as you are never going past 10th…..and that’s the DM’s fault if they do, but that’s a whole other thing.
Everyone has their own opinions and that’s cool. I think 5E broke some good things, but, as any DM, rules are guidelines in this game. Any module can be first level and, conversely, any module can be “epic level”. How that happens, or not, is up to the DM. If the DM can’t work that out….are they really?
I realize, D&D Beyond is a third party platform. Who will only go with “official” written works and that’s fine. It’s their system and they do whatever they want with it.
I’ve also taken their advice and am going to WoTC regarding level caps etc, as should those who don’t like being cut off at 10th level anything. My thoughts, my opinion. No one is required to like them, or even agree with them.
"The experience point cost to gain a level is always based on your total character level, as shown in the Character Advancement table in chapter 1, not your level in a particular class. So, if you are a cleric 6/fighter 1, you must gain enough XP to reach 8th level before you can take your second level as a fighter or your seventh level as a cleric."
"Compared to a single-class character of the same level, you'll sacrifice some focus in exchange for versatility."
"If a cantrip of yours increases in power at higher levels, the increase is based on your character level, not your level in a particular class."
The rules are very clear the class level and character level are different things. By multiclassing, your character level is the sum of the total levels across all classes. You sacrifice power and focus in exchange for versatility, or even synergy.
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Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
I get what you’re saying, but I disagree with your math. If you are a 10th lvl Rogue, 10th lvl Wizard, per your analogy, you say you are 20th level. I say no, you are only A 10th level of either. So, effectively only 10th level. Never able to advance to anything further. You say, 20th, but your rouge only has 10th level skills etc and your wizard can only cast 2 5th lvl spells tops. Doesn’t sound very 20th to me. Yes, the combined parts can be powerful if played properly, however, your DM, if they know what they are doing, can still challenge the party or kill you, regardless of level so….
It's written in the player's handbook.
"Multiclassing allows you to gain levels in multiple classes. Doing so lets you mix the abilities of those classes to realize a character concept that might not be reflected in one of the standard class options.
With this rule, you have the option of gaining a level in a new class whenever you advance in level, instead of gaining a level in your current class. Your levels in all your classes are added together to determine your character level. For example, if you have three levels in wizard and two in fighter, you're a 5th-level character."
Because by 5E rules levels do not go above 20. This is character level. A 10th level Rogue, 10th level Wizard is already 20th level.
“D&D “rules” are guidelines. It’s your world, play how you want, the way it was intended. “
RAW, your character level is the sum of all of your class levels. Characters are capped at 20th level. If you are a lvl 10 Rogue, l gel 10 Wizard, then you are a 20th level character and can no longer gain class levels.
That is RAW, and so that’s what is supported. They didn’t build the system to support houserules like yours, and hey built it to support RAW. (They don’t support my houserules either. It’s not anything personal, just the way the cookie crumbles.)
I get what you’re saying, but I disagree with your math. If you are a 10th lvl Rogue, 10th lvl Wizard, per your analogy, you say you are 20th level. I say no, you are only A 10th level of either.
I get what you’re saying but I disagree with your math. 10+10=20. (That’s just kinda one of those universal truths.) If you don’t want to be limited at 10th level, the answer is simple, don’t multiclass. Or if you do, don’t split it evenly at 10/10 as that is the worst thing you can do. Usually a 17/3 (or 15/5) is better.
But either way: 17+3=15+5=10+10=20
It doesn’t matter what any of your individual class levels are, it is the total character level that matters. If you want to be a 20th level rogue, don’t multiclass. If you want to multiclass, you can never hit 20th level in any one class. It’s a trade off, this for that. You want to have your cake and eat it too. It doesn’t work like that.
As it is fairly quick to level 10, it wouldn’t seem to make sense to get to involved with a PC and their background, as “tomorrow we die”…..or get retired……or continue to play with no advancement possible.
You do realize that to become a level 10 rogue/ level 10 Wizard you don’t just get to 10th level, or even to 10th level twice, but you must accumulate enough XP to get to 20th level the same as if you had not multiclassed at all. Don’t you? It takes just as much time and experience to hit 20th level Multiclassing 10/10 as it does to hit 20th level without Multiclassing at all. You do realize that? Right?
You’re missing the point folks. “The rules are guidelines” They are designed to keep play moving along less-than-total-chaos lines. Y’all keep quoting rules like they were given by God written adamantine tablets. They aren’t.
you do realize, in the old multi class system, you had to get XP in both classes, not just one? So, 20th level in both classes, not a combined XP.
17 rogue / 3 wizard Kinda useful I guess, but 20/20, much more potent.
if there’s a level cap, maybe 40? Play longer and reach a characters full potential
Unless, “they” implemented the caps to keep the play easier for …..well….now why would they do that?
play how you want. Follow the rules like they’re concrete if you want. It’s your game. Enjoy.
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Known in other realms as Ranxaeroth.
“Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and good with bar-b-que sauce.” ~Cheshire Dragon
”You can fool most of the people most of the time, but a Sphinx….never.” ~Torwyn Vantalion.
“When the DM smiles, its already to late.” ~many a player.
https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Past_Level_20_(5e_Variant_Rule) Ummmmmm, Wizards of the coast has recognized play past level 20 I'm pretty sure since literally first edition. Sooooooooooo.....
*Replying to admin saying that wizards needs to add rules for past level 20 in order for it to be on DndBeyond
Actually, it would have been impossible for WotC to recognize anything in any official capacity prior to 3rd edition. Mostly because D&D started in 1974 and WotC didn’t exist prior to 1990. The other reason being that WotC didn’t acquire the rights to publish D&D until 1997, and the very first edition they ever published was 3e, followed shortly by 3.5, followed shortly by 4e… followed shortly by what was almost the death of D&D until they published this current edition, 5e.
And WotC does currently recognize play past 20th level, they recognize the system of Epic Boons found in the DMG. That includes suggestions for both a milestone type of progression, as well as an XP type of progression. This system is in lieu of gaining additional levels.
You’re missing the point folks. “The rules are guidelines” They are designed to keep play moving along less-than-total-chaos lines. Y’all keep quoting rules like they were given by God written adamantine tablets. They aren’t.
you do realize, in the old multi class system, you had to get XP in both classes, not just one? So, 20th level in both classes, not a combined XP.
17 rogue / 3 wizard Kinda useful I guess, but 20/20, much more potent.
if there’s a level cap, maybe 40? Play longer and reach a characters full potential
Unless, “they” implemented the caps to keep the play easier for …..well….now why would they do that?
play how you want. Follow the rules like they’re concrete if you want. It’s your game. Enjoy.
You misunderstand. The company that runs this website is contractually bound and obligated to adhere to RAW in all things. We’re not quoting the rules because of any reason other than what they are legally allowed to do. If DDB just up and changed this stuff, WotC would sue them into nonexistent oblivion and I would be out the money I have spent on purchasing books here. So if you want to personally pay for the legal costs, salaries, and customer losses out of pocket for them committing a crime just to do it your way, then I guess keep arguing. I hope you have several hundred million dollars, because that’s what it would likely cost. But if you are not prepared to personally pay several hundred million dollars of your own money to take on Hasbro in court, then maybe stop being pissed that they are refusing to break the law and violate their contract with WotC, just fer li’l ol’ you.
Oh, yeah, I forgot to explain that, didn’t I? Hasbro owns WotC. That means Hasbro owns D&D. Hasbro is a global megacorp, like Apple, or Kraft/Heinz, or P&G. Hasbro brought in almost $5.5 billion last year. Billion with a “B.” $5,465,000,000.00, in one year. That’s almost $1 from every single man, woman, other, and child on the planet. You know how one does not simply walk into Mordor? One does not simply violate a legally binding contract with a company that generates 👆 that much money in sales annually unless one does more than that. So unless your last name is Bezos or Jobs or something… never gonna happen.
I don't know enough about the dndbeyond homebrew class system. As a workaround for those who want to multiclass, can you make a homebrew class that at level 1 is basically a level 20 fighter or whatever and then multiclass like regular into something like rogue?
Edit: I just played around with the Champion Fighter. I just changed the level requirements for all the Champion traits to level 1. You'd have to add subclass features for Action surge, Extra Attack, Indomitable and that's it. You can manually override the ability score improvements or feats and manually override the hp. Should work. You now have a level 20 fighter at level 1 and you can multiclass.
You’re missing the point folks. “The rules are guidelines” They are designed to keep play moving along less-than-total-chaos lines. Y’all keep quoting rules like they were given by God written adamantine tablets. They aren’t.
you do realize, in the old multi class system, you had to get XP in both classes, not just one? So, 20th level in both classes, not a combined XP.
17 rogue / 3 wizard Kinda useful I guess, but 20/20, much more potent.
if there’s a level cap, maybe 40? Play longer and reach a characters full potential
Unless, “they” implemented the caps to keep the play easier for …..well….now why would they do that?
play how you want. Follow the rules like they’re concrete if you want. It’s your game. Enjoy.
The rules may be guidelines for DMs and players
However, the rules are explicit boundaries for D&D Beyond, which supports the core rules of D&D and does not create new rules, or systems for new rules.
“I realize, D&D Beyond is a third party platform. Who will only go with “official” written works and that’s fine. It’s their system and they do whatever they want with it. “
“I’ve also taken their advice and am going to WoTC regarding level caps etc, as should those who don’t like being cut off at 10th level anything.”
I get it. I’m simply stating my viewpoint, as are all the other folks here, but thanks for letting us know, moderators are paying attention to the conversation. Much appreciated.
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Known in other realms as Ranxaeroth.
“Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and good with bar-b-que sauce.” ~Cheshire Dragon
”You can fool most of the people most of the time, but a Sphinx….never.” ~Torwyn Vantalion.
“When the DM smiles, its already to late.” ~many a player.
Yes I understand D&D Beyond does only do core rules. The fact they don't have a option to disable the cap or enable the cap just like custom weapons, gear, and monsters. This would be easy to allow an option but I do understand from a aspect that bugs can make bigger problems while allowing it. I just hope this will be an option in the future.
You’re missing the point folks. “The rules are guidelines” They are designed to keep play moving along less-than-total-chaos lines. Y’all keep quoting rules like they were given by God written adamantine tablets. They aren’t.
you do realize, in the old multi class system, you had to get XP in both classes, not just one? So, 20th level in both classes, not a combined XP.
17 rogue / 3 wizard Kinda useful I guess, but 20/20, much more potent.
if there’s a level cap, maybe 40? Play longer and reach a characters full potential
Unless, “they” implemented the caps to keep the play easier for …..well….now why would they do that?
play how you want. Follow the rules like they’re concrete if you want. It’s your game. Enjoy.
You misunderstand. The company that runs this website is contractually bound and obligated to adhere to RAW in all things. We’re not quoting the rules because of any reason other than what they are legally allowed to do. If DDB just up and changed this stuff, WotC would sue them into nonexistent oblivion and I would be out the money I have spent on purchasing books here. So if you want to personally pay for the legal costs, salaries, and customer losses out of pocket for them committing a crime just to do it your way, then I guess keep arguing. I hope you have several hundred million dollars, because that’s what it would likely cost. But if you are not prepared to personally pay several hundred million dollars of your own money to take on Hasbro in court, then maybe stop being pissed that they are refusing to break the law and violate their contract with WotC, just fer li’l ol’ you.
Oh, yeah, I forgot to explain that, didn’t I? Hasbro owns WotC. That means Hasbro owns D&D. Hasbro is a global megacorp, like Apple, or Kraft/Heinz, or P&G. Hasbro brought in almost $5.5 billion last year. Billion with a “B.” $5,465,000,000.00, in one year. That’s almost $1 from every single man, woman, other, and child on the planet. You know how one does not simply walk into Mordor? One does not simply violate a legally binding contract with a company that generates 👆 that much money in sales annually unless one does more than that. So unless your last name is Bezos or Jobs or something… never gonna happen.
Wow, not sure where all the attitude comes from but, won’t you kindly send it somewhere else? No one is arguing, well, maybe you are but >shrug<
This was a “feature request” page. I posted my two cents. Made no demands on anyone, never do. If you read my earlier posting, I already said I get it and am going to WoTC per the moderator. Good grief dude, chill before you pop a gasket.
If we all agreed with everything, what a boring, grey, lifeless world that would be. [REDACTED]
Perhaps it might be best to shut down this thread as the conversations have turned circular with nothing new that is useful coming up now. That and people posting on this thread just creates noise hiding useful feature requests others are making.
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Loex - A Lizardfolk Lvl 4/6/4 Hexblade Profane Blood Hunter/ Battlesmith Artificer/ Cleric of the Forge Arborea - A Warforged Lvl 1 Hexblade Warlock
I'll address the points you've made, because I can assure you things aren't quite as you think they are
As for your final point, it's important to remember that D&D is a lot of games to a lot of people and it would be frankly impossible for any digital toolset to support all of those possible games. D&D Beyond is, first and foremost, a toolset for D&D as presented in the official rulebooks. I'm sorry if that doesn't meet your needs, or the needs of others, but that's always been DDBs mission statement; to make playing D&D as you find it in the books as seamless as possible.
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
No, they are only 10th. Otherwise your rouge class would have all the skills etc of level 20. Do they? No. So 10th in each class. If both classes were level 20 THEN, they would be a true 20th level. Under current guidelines, you’re severely handicapped at 10th if you evenly dual class, 6th if you evenly triple class. Which is why, since 1st edition, we always cap at level 100, and one of the first things we would all do is take our favorite classes each and layout all the XP tables etc, then put them in a binder for the whole. D&D “rules” are guidelines. It’s your world, play how you want, the way it was intended. For example, we completely overhaul magic to a spell point system. How many times you cast spell A, depends on how many points you have remaining. Thus, higher level spells drain a mage faster than lower level spells, which is how magic is done in most books.
Known in other realms as Ranxaeroth.
“Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and good with bar-b-que sauce.” ~Cheshire Dragon
”You can fool most of the people most of the time, but a Sphinx….never.” ~Torwyn Vantalion.
“When the DM smiles, its already to late.” ~many a player.
RAW, your character level is the sum of all of your class levels. Characters are capped at 20th level. If you are a lvl 10 Rogue, lvl 10 Wizard, then you are a 20th level character and can no longer gain class levels.
That is RAW, and so that’s what is supported. They didn’t build the system to support houserules like yours, and hey built it to support RAW. (They don’t support my houserules either. It’s not anything personal, just the way the cookie crumbles.)
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But they do support homebrew.
I guess what we’re saying is that adding a button to remove lvl caps doesn’t sound like much of an ask..
It wouldn’t be just “adding a button” though. There are how many different classes? 13? (Not including Blood Hunter.) That would require them to take the system that currently stops at Character level 20, and program it to go all the way up to 260 (280 for the blood hunter). It isn’t a “simple button,” it’s a whole shedload of programming for a feature that 90% of users would never even have an option to use (because most campaigns end by 15th level), and 90% of those that would hit level 20 wouldn’t use anyway because most folks don’t even use the epic boons, they just start a new campaign. That’s a ridiculous amount of work for something that only 1% of their users would actually use.
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I get what you’re saying, but I disagree with your math. If you are a 10th lvl Rogue, 10th lvl Wizard, per your analogy, you say you are 20th level. I say no, you are only A 10th level of either. So, effectively only 10th level. Never able to advance to anything further. You say, 20th, but your rouge only has 10th level skills etc and your wizard can only cast 2 5th lvl spells tops. Doesn’t sound very 20th to me. Yes, the combined parts can be powerful if played properly, however, your DM, if they know what they are doing, can still challenge the party or kill you, regardless of level so….
The point being, I and my group do not believe in level caps as they can put folks off playing Not sure about you, but we put a lot of time into characters. There’s no such thing as simply starting over. I get it, many don’t and that’s cool, but there are many who do.
As it is fairly quick to level 10, it wouldn’t seem to make sense to get to involved with a PC and their background, as “tomorrow we die”…..or get retired……or continue to play with no advancement possible.
another person stated, “…most campaigns end at 15th level anyway…”. But you’ll never get there as you are never going past 10th…..and that’s the DM’s fault if they do, but that’s a whole other thing.
Everyone has their own opinions and that’s cool. I think 5E broke some good things, but, as any DM, rules are guidelines in this game. Any module can be first level and, conversely, any module can be “epic level”. How that happens, or not, is up to the DM. If the DM can’t work that out….are they really?
I realize, D&D Beyond is a third party platform. Who will only go with “official” written works and that’s fine. It’s their system and they do whatever they want with it.
I’ve also taken their advice and am going to WoTC regarding level caps etc, as should those who don’t like being cut off at 10th level anything.
My thoughts, my opinion. No one is required to like them, or even agree with them.
Known in other realms as Ranxaeroth.
“Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and good with bar-b-que sauce.” ~Cheshire Dragon
”You can fool most of the people most of the time, but a Sphinx….never.” ~Torwyn Vantalion.
“When the DM smiles, its already to late.” ~many a player.
"The experience point cost to gain a level is always based on your total character level, as shown in the Character Advancement table in chapter 1, not your level in a particular class. So, if you are a cleric 6/fighter 1, you must gain enough XP to reach 8th level before you can take your second level as a fighter or your seventh level as a cleric."
"Compared to a single-class character of the same level, you'll sacrifice some focus in exchange for versatility."
"If a cantrip of yours increases in power at higher levels, the increase is based on your character level, not your level in a particular class."
The rules are very clear the class level and character level are different things. By multiclassing, your character level is the sum of the total levels across all classes. You sacrifice power and focus in exchange for versatility, or even synergy.
Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
It's written in the player's handbook.
"Multiclassing allows you to gain levels in multiple classes. Doing so lets you mix the abilities of those classes to realize a character concept that might not be reflected in one of the standard class options.
With this rule, you have the option of gaining a level in a new class whenever you advance in level, instead of gaining a level in your current class. Your levels in all your classes are added together to determine your character level. For example, if you have three levels in wizard and two in fighter, you're a 5th-level character."
I get what you’re saying but I disagree with your math. 10+10=20. (That’s just kinda one of those universal truths.) If you don’t want to be limited at 10th level, the answer is simple, don’t multiclass. Or if you do, don’t split it evenly at 10/10 as that is the worst thing you can do. Usually a 17/3 (or 15/5) is better.
But either way: 17+3=15+5=10+10=20
It doesn’t matter what any of your individual class levels are, it is the total character level that matters. If you want to be a 20th level rogue, don’t multiclass. If you want to multiclass, you can never hit 20th level in any one class. It’s a trade off, this for that. You want to have your cake and eat it too. It doesn’t work like that.
You do realize that to become a level 10 rogue/ level 10 Wizard you don’t just get to 10th level, or even to 10th level twice, but you must accumulate enough XP to get to 20th level the same as if you had not multiclassed at all. Don’t you? It takes just as much time and experience to hit 20th level Multiclassing 10/10 as it does to hit 20th level without Multiclassing at all. You do realize that? Right?
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You’re missing the point folks. “The rules are guidelines” They are designed to keep play moving along less-than-total-chaos lines. Y’all keep quoting rules like they were given by God written adamantine tablets. They aren’t.
you do realize, in the old multi class system, you had to get XP in both classes, not just one? So, 20th level in both classes, not a combined XP.
17 rogue / 3 wizard Kinda useful I guess, but 20/20, much more potent.
if there’s a level cap, maybe 40? Play longer and reach a characters full potential
Unless, “they” implemented the caps to keep the play easier for …..well….now why would they do that?
play how you want. Follow the rules like they’re concrete if you want. It’s your game. Enjoy.
Known in other realms as Ranxaeroth.
“Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and good with bar-b-que sauce.” ~Cheshire Dragon
”You can fool most of the people most of the time, but a Sphinx….never.” ~Torwyn Vantalion.
“When the DM smiles, its already to late.” ~many a player.
Actually, it would have been impossible for WotC to recognize anything in any official capacity prior to 3rd edition. Mostly because D&D started in 1974 and WotC didn’t exist prior to 1990. The other reason being that WotC didn’t acquire the rights to publish D&D until 1997, and the very first edition they ever published was 3e, followed shortly by 3.5, followed shortly by 4e… followed shortly by what was almost the death of D&D until they published this current edition, 5e.
And WotC does currently recognize play past 20th level, they recognize the system of Epic Boons found in the DMG. That includes suggestions for both a milestone type of progression, as well as an XP type of progression. This system is in lieu of gaining additional levels.
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You misunderstand. The company that runs this website is contractually bound and obligated to adhere to RAW in all things. We’re not quoting the rules because of any reason other than what they are legally allowed to do. If DDB just up and changed this stuff, WotC would sue them into nonexistent oblivion and I would be out the money I have spent on purchasing books here. So if you want to personally pay for the legal costs, salaries, and customer losses out of pocket for them committing a crime just to do it your way, then I guess keep arguing. I hope you have several hundred million dollars, because that’s what it would likely cost. But if you are not prepared to personally pay several hundred million dollars of your own money to take on Hasbro in court, then maybe stop being pissed that they are refusing to break the law and violate their contract with WotC, just fer li’l ol’ you.
Oh, yeah, I forgot to explain that, didn’t I? Hasbro owns WotC. That means Hasbro owns D&D. Hasbro is a global megacorp, like Apple, or Kraft/Heinz, or P&G. Hasbro brought in almost $5.5 billion last year. Billion with a “B.” $5,465,000,000.00, in one year. That’s almost $1 from every single man, woman, other, and child on the planet. You know how one does not simply walk into Mordor? One does not simply violate a legally binding contract with a company that generates 👆 that much money in sales annually unless one does more than that. So unless your last name is Bezos or Jobs or something… never gonna happen.
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I don't know enough about the dndbeyond homebrew class system. As a workaround for those who want to multiclass, can you make a homebrew class that at level 1 is basically a level 20 fighter or whatever and then multiclass like regular into something like rogue?
Edit: I just played around with the Champion Fighter. I just changed the level requirements for all the Champion traits to level 1. You'd have to add subclass features for Action surge, Extra Attack, Indomitable and that's it. You can manually override the ability score improvements or feats and manually override the hp. Should work. You now have a level 20 fighter at level 1 and you can multiclass.
The rules may be guidelines for DMs and players
However, the rules are explicit boundaries for D&D Beyond, which supports the core rules of D&D and does not create new rules, or systems for new rules.
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
Maybe for martial classes, but but any class (or subclass) with spellcasting or pact Magic, not so much.
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Davyd, perhaps you missed my earlier statements?
“I realize, D&D Beyond is a third party platform. Who will only go with “official” written works and that’s fine. It’s their system and they do whatever they want with it. “
“I’ve also taken their advice and am going to WoTC regarding level caps etc, as should those who don’t like being cut off at 10th level anything.”
I get it. I’m simply stating my viewpoint, as are all the other folks here, but thanks for letting us know, moderators are paying attention to the conversation. Much appreciated.
Known in other realms as Ranxaeroth.
“Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and good with bar-b-que sauce.” ~Cheshire Dragon
”You can fool most of the people most of the time, but a Sphinx….never.” ~Torwyn Vantalion.
“When the DM smiles, its already to late.” ~many a player.
Yes I understand D&D Beyond does only do core rules. The fact they don't have a option to disable the cap or enable the cap just like custom weapons, gear, and monsters. This would be easy to allow an option but I do understand from a aspect that bugs can make bigger problems while allowing it. I just hope this will be an option in the future.
Wow, not sure where all the attitude comes from but, won’t you kindly send it somewhere else? No one is arguing, well, maybe you are but >shrug<
This was a “feature request” page. I posted my two cents. Made no demands on anyone, never do. If you read my earlier posting, I already said I get it and am going to WoTC per the moderator.
Good grief dude, chill before you pop a gasket.
If we all agreed with everything, what a boring, grey, lifeless world that would be.
[REDACTED]
Known in other realms as Ranxaeroth.
“Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and good with bar-b-que sauce.” ~Cheshire Dragon
”You can fool most of the people most of the time, but a Sphinx….never.” ~Torwyn Vantalion.
“When the DM smiles, its already to late.” ~many a player.
Perhaps it might be best to shut down this thread as the conversations have turned circular with nothing new that is useful coming up now. That and people posting on this thread just creates noise hiding useful feature requests others are making.
Loex - A Lizardfolk Lvl 4/6/4 Hexblade Profane Blood Hunter/ Battlesmith Artificer/ Cleric of the Forge
Arborea - A Warforged Lvl 1 Hexblade Warlock
DM - "Malign Intelligence"
agreed.