I don't like it as it is just harder to read the white on the pictures. It's rather distracting with the pictures and the white is just either not big enough or something. Anyway, I only like that things are at least looked organized due to the same sized block for each section/chapter. And the pictures are cool even if they make me find it hard to read stuff quick to find what I want.
Honestly, I love the new graphics, but this being a personal thing (liking graphics or without), you guys will never be able to get it good for everyone. Do what you guys feel comfortable with, since it will be your product in the end and it is important to feel proud of what you as a team created. If you are proud, we as users are happy... :)
I agree that a search function will be quite good for quick references.
I am new to the D&D world (since start 2017) and I love what you guys did with the Characters section. To design a character with a book is full of constantly paging back and forth and writing down page number and try to remember why those numbers was written down... In short, the website makes it possible to open different section in different tabs and this makes character building so much more fun and a smooth process....
Okay, looked at this again today to see if my opinion changed. I still like the graphics and like that every section is in the same sized block so it is not looking all random on the page. Some of the white is not as easy to read, but looks good on the darker parts of pictures. Like what Jannie said, you are not going to please everyone and it would be impossible to try anyway. I just know being one of the older crew here, it does take longer to find what I want within the chapter due to getting my eyes to focus on the white words over the picture.
I do have a good idea what chapter holds what and since chapter is also one of the ways things are referenced in the material, it is good to be able to link to that as needed. However, I am finding that you are a doing a great job of linking things right to the section of the chapter it needs to go to and that is the good way of doing that.
I know if there is going to be future links to the chapters you need to have a header page for the chapter with the links to the subsection pages. At least, at the moment we can't click on the chapter header and wind up finding ourselves directly in a subsection rather than an overview as it should be.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
PbP - Beregost Blues - Portia Starflower, Half Elf, Cleric, Life Domain PbP - Tome of Annhilation - Vistani Mocanu, Human, Bard
Maybe have a view selector, One for the pretty layout and one for lists. Personally, I like the new format because it's actually in proper order for a new player to learn the game instead of being a D&D encyclopedia where you have to already know what you want to look up before trying to find it. There are things that can be done to speed up load times and since this is the Beta there's still room for optimizations.
We made an update to the Compendium landing page with an attempt to satisfy as many sides of the feedback as we can touch:
Keep the text/ links simpler and easier to read.
Integrate artwork to improve visual, especially on desktop (the extra imagery is removed when viewing on mobile).
Use all the space by not standardizing the container box sizes.
Remove "chapter" references
Keep a logical flow/ order of rules content to be more friendly to new players.
Please let us know your thoughts. As I've said, we are well aware we won't be able to please everyone, but we are getting closer to how this will look longer term.
Much improved! I think you are obtaining a happy medium and sweet spot between two prevalent viewpoints (one of simplicity and being able to read things easily versus the other viewpoint of desiring eye candy). At most, only a few minor tweaks and adjustments will likely be needed. Thanks for listening. :) You could possibly play with the headers of each "box" a bit to make the entire effect look even better without detracting from how easy it is to find information or read it. By this, I mean possibly shade the headers in their own little header "boxes" or try even making the headers have their own reversed color scheme (white lettering on black) to contrast with the main white boxes which are now primarily white backgrounds with black hyperlinks.
I like this much better. Having the eye candy pic in the background keeps it from being all white like the original. The white boxes with black text are easy to read. I see that the background does go away when my browser is put to about 60% width of my widescreen which is fine, but when wide open it helps alleviate the over whiteness.
For the sections that all the information fits on one page, I like that the header takes you to the very top of the information and all the subsections will take you directly to the start of the subsection. Then when in there you have the sidebar for all the related information. This is a lot cleaner and well organized. Even on the larger sections like Character where it is on multiple pages, it is still laid out into pages that group the subsections nicely.
Now for background eye candy on all the pages so they are not ALL white like you did for the main Compendium page. Might be interesting to see what can go behind and still look cool outside where the white sidebar and main text box are. This would be great if it worked like the compendium page where it disappears when the screen/window is smaller as you don't have excess white background around things there.
Thinking on this, even the forums could use at least a soft, neutral background color to alleviate the WHITE when in what I'll dub as large screen mode.
I like the compromise a lot better as well. Everything related being grouped under the same column means that you aren't jumping around across jagged columns and the reading flow is natural. That solves the main issue I had with the original layout.
FWIW, I think the compromise for mobile is a good one, I would prefer if we had a toggle in our account configs for low mobile bandwith [which essentially removes images as it is for mobile right now] , personally I like the images and have unlimited data, so I don't mind having them even if I have to scroll a bit more, but that's just a pet peeve, as is rn works well.
The New layout is very much improved and a good compromise between the original and the other version. You created a solid hierarchy of information, while keeping the sections and chapters but designed them in a way that is very subtle. The information we need is right there and easy to find.
We know a lot of sites talk about good game about listening to people but I must say... I'm pleasantly surprised that you have listened to all of us and worked for the best possible solution.
Hey guys, just a heads up to those few who've posted since BadEye's last post (ONeill249 excluded) - there was another mini-tweak in the last couple of hours. Check it out! There is new art throughout the compendium & character pages, plus some further refinement of the compendium's landing page.
Another possible tweak you might want to consider: Try having the background color art extend all the way to the bottom of the page so that ALL the boxes are superimposed over the artwork. Right now, the boxes near the top of the page stand out better (and look better) than the ones toward the bottom of the page when you scroll down. In my opinion this is because the colorful art in the background makes them stand out more and "pop," but when you scroll down the effect is lost on the boxes that are hanging over a white background.
Another possible tweak you might want to consider: Try having the background color art extend all the way to the bottom of the page so that ALL the boxes are superimposed over the artwork. Right now, the boxes near the top of the page stand out better (and look better) than the ones toward the bottom of the page when you scroll down. In my opinion this is because the colorful art in the background makes them stand out more and "pop," but when you scroll down the effect is lost on the boxes that are hanging over a white background.
Maybe if the background image didn't scroll, but the boxes did?
Another possible tweak you might want to consider: Try having the background color art extend all the way to the bottom of the page so that ALL the boxes are superimposed over the artwork. Right now, the boxes near the top of the page stand out better (and look better) than the ones toward the bottom of the page when you scroll down. In my opinion this is because the colorful art in the background makes them stand out more and "pop," but when you scroll down the effect is lost on the boxes that are hanging over a white background.
Maybe if the background image didn't scroll, but the boxes did?
The new yellow image background does make the boxes "pop" and catches the eye very well. Its a great entry to the section.
But using a full page background image would break away from the existing style of the site would be overkill the more we looked at it. The purpose full use of color with its subtle use of shades is what makes the site so nice to use. There is so much information that too much in your face color would be overwelming. If everything popped then creating a hierarchy would also be much more difficult.
And if the boxes scrolled to keep the image behind it, I think a lot of people would find that annoying at the least and possibly cause dizziness at worst. Its great for sites based heavily on imagery but for content it can be a pain.
Not sure where you guys got the idea that I am suggesting anything that scrolls. I wasn't saying that at all. I was simply suggesting that the page might look better if the existing image extended all the way to the bottom of that page so that it was behind all information boxes. I think it would look better. Currently, the top half of the page looks very professional and great, but when you move down to the bottom the boxes at the bottom sort of just hang there and don't look as nice and are not as easy to read or as nice on the eyes because the background at the bottom is white and therefore does not create as much contrast as the boxes at the top, which have the yellow image behind them (creating more contrast). If that image is not tall enough to do the job, maybe a different one with the same color would work better.
Even a fade out of the color used to the bottom of the page would work so that it is lighter at the bottom, but not white. I see what Thaseus is talking about, especially on the bottom two boxes. They seem to just hang there on the end. Of course, this image only shows up on desktop sized browser windows, as soon as I shrink the window to a full tablet size the image is gone, but all the extra space to either side of the boxes is gone too.
If anything maybe a minor tweak of light color instead of white background could help, but what you have now is far better and more professional than all the other iterations of it. Keep up the great work and thanks for listening to all of us.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
PbP - Beregost Blues - Portia Starflower, Half Elf, Cleric, Life Domain PbP - Tome of Annhilation - Vistani Mocanu, Human, Bard
Not sure where you guys got the idea that I am suggesting anything that scrolls. I wasn't saying that at all. I was simply suggesting that the page might look better if the existing image extended all the way to the bottom of that page so that it was behind all information boxes. I think it would look better. Currently, the top half of the page looks very professional and great, but when you move down to the bottom the boxes at the bottom sort of just hang there and don't look as nice and are not as easy to read or as nice on the eyes because the background at the bottom is white and therefore does not create as much contrast as the boxes at the top, which have the yellow image behind them (creating more contrast). If that image is not tall enough to do the job, maybe a different one with the same color would work better.
I know you weren't referring to a scroll - Sorce added that concept and I was commenting on both at the same time.
You just wanted a better contrast between the background and the boxes.
I was saying that looking at more than just this page, looking at the site as a whole. The background images are only designed to be at the top and not contrast every box on the page. If every background was filled to contrast the boxes then the color would be overwhelming.
Just checked out the latest update in which you added images of the scroll and book at the bottom of the compendium page. That is definitely an improvement. I still think it would look even better if you used a full piece of art that extends all the way to the bottom of the page, so you may want to try that. What you did is definitely an improvement, though, compared to having just the original yellow image that cut off halfway down the page and left the rest of the page (the bottom) with a white background.
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I don't like it as it is just harder to read the white on the pictures. It's rather distracting with the pictures and the white is just either not big enough or something. Anyway, I only like that things are at least looked organized due to the same sized block for each section/chapter. And the pictures are cool even if they make me find it hard to read stuff quick to find what I want.
PbP - Beregost Blues - Portia Starflower, Half Elf, Cleric, Life Domain
PbP - Tome of Annhilation - Vistani Mocanu, Human, Bard
Honestly, I love the new graphics, but this being a personal thing (liking graphics or without), you guys will never be able to get it good for everyone. Do what you guys feel comfortable with, since it will be your product in the end and it is important to feel proud of what you as a team created. If you are proud, we as users are happy... :)
I agree that a search function will be quite good for quick references.
I am new to the D&D world (since start 2017) and I love what you guys did with the Characters section. To design a character with a book is full of constantly paging back and forth and writing down page number and try to remember why those numbers was written down... In short, the website makes it possible to open different section in different tabs and this makes character building so much more fun and a smooth process....
Good work team!
...and so it begins!
Okay, looked at this again today to see if my opinion changed. I still like the graphics and like that every section is in the same sized block so it is not looking all random on the page. Some of the white is not as easy to read, but looks good on the darker parts of pictures. Like what Jannie said, you are not going to please everyone and it would be impossible to try anyway. I just know being one of the older crew here, it does take longer to find what I want within the chapter due to getting my eyes to focus on the white words over the picture.
I do have a good idea what chapter holds what and since chapter is also one of the ways things are referenced in the material, it is good to be able to link to that as needed. However, I am finding that you are a doing a great job of linking things right to the section of the chapter it needs to go to and that is the good way of doing that.
I know if there is going to be future links to the chapters you need to have a header page for the chapter with the links to the subsection pages. At least, at the moment we can't click on the chapter header and wind up finding ourselves directly in a subsection rather than an overview as it should be.
PbP - Beregost Blues - Portia Starflower, Half Elf, Cleric, Life Domain
PbP - Tome of Annhilation - Vistani Mocanu, Human, Bard
Maybe have a view selector, One for the pretty layout and one for lists. Personally, I like the new format because it's actually in proper order for a new player to learn the game instead of being a D&D encyclopedia where you have to already know what you want to look up before trying to find it. There are things that can be done to speed up load times and since this is the Beta there's still room for optimizations.
We made an update to the Compendium landing page with an attempt to satisfy as many sides of the feedback as we can touch:
Please let us know your thoughts. As I've said, we are well aware we won't be able to please everyone, but we are getting closer to how this will look longer term.
Thanks!
Much improved! I think you are obtaining a happy medium and sweet spot between two prevalent viewpoints (one of simplicity and being able to read things easily versus the other viewpoint of desiring eye candy). At most, only a few minor tweaks and adjustments will likely be needed. Thanks for listening. :) You could possibly play with the headers of each "box" a bit to make the entire effect look even better without detracting from how easy it is to find information or read it. By this, I mean possibly shade the headers in their own little header "boxes" or try even making the headers have their own reversed color scheme (white lettering on black) to contrast with the main white boxes which are now primarily white backgrounds with black hyperlinks.
I like this much better. Having the eye candy pic in the background keeps it from being all white like the original. The white boxes with black text are easy to read. I see that the background does go away when my browser is put to about 60% width of my widescreen which is fine, but when wide open it helps alleviate the over whiteness.
For the sections that all the information fits on one page, I like that the header takes you to the very top of the information and all the subsections will take you directly to the start of the subsection. Then when in there you have the sidebar for all the related information. This is a lot cleaner and well organized. Even on the larger sections like Character where it is on multiple pages, it is still laid out into pages that group the subsections nicely.
Now for background eye candy on all the pages so they are not ALL white like you did for the main Compendium page. Might be interesting to see what can go behind and still look cool outside where the white sidebar and main text box are. This would be great if it worked like the compendium page where it disappears when the screen/window is smaller as you don't have excess white background around things there.
Thinking on this, even the forums could use at least a soft, neutral background color to alleviate the WHITE when in what I'll dub as large screen mode.
PbP - Beregost Blues - Portia Starflower, Half Elf, Cleric, Life Domain
PbP - Tome of Annhilation - Vistani Mocanu, Human, Bard
I like the compromise a lot better as well. Everything related being grouped under the same column means that you aren't jumping around across jagged columns and the reading flow is natural. That solves the main issue I had with the original layout.
FWIW, I think the compromise for mobile is a good one, I would prefer if we had a toggle in our account configs for low mobile bandwith [which essentially removes images as it is for mobile right now] , personally I like the images and have unlimited data, so I don't mind having them even if I have to scroll a bit more, but that's just a pet peeve, as is rn works well.
i like the updated look. easy to read, well organized and as stated above since topic are grouped together it alleviates cross searching. :)
The New layout is very much improved and a good compromise between the original and the other version. You created a solid hierarchy of information, while keeping the sections and chapters but designed them in a way that is very subtle. The information we need is right there and easy to find.
We know a lot of sites talk about good game about listening to people but I must say... I'm pleasantly surprised that you have listened to all of us and worked for the best possible solution.
Thank you
Hey guys, just a heads up to those few who've posted since BadEye's last post (ONeill249 excluded) - there was another mini-tweak in the last couple of hours. Check it out! There is new art throughout the compendium & character pages, plus some further refinement of the compendium's landing page.
Personally? I love the changes.
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PbP - Beregost Blues - Portia Starflower, Half Elf, Cleric, Life Domain
PbP - Tome of Annhilation - Vistani Mocanu, Human, Bard
Another possible tweak you might want to consider: Try having the background color art extend all the way to the bottom of the page so that ALL the boxes are superimposed over the artwork. Right now, the boxes near the top of the page stand out better (and look better) than the ones toward the bottom of the page when you scroll down. In my opinion this is because the colorful art in the background makes them stand out more and "pop," but when you scroll down the effect is lost on the boxes that are hanging over a white background.
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Not sure where you guys got the idea that I am suggesting anything that scrolls. I wasn't saying that at all. I was simply suggesting that the page might look better if the existing image extended all the way to the bottom of that page so that it was behind all information boxes. I think it would look better. Currently, the top half of the page looks very professional and great, but when you move down to the bottom the boxes at the bottom sort of just hang there and don't look as nice and are not as easy to read or as nice on the eyes because the background at the bottom is white and therefore does not create as much contrast as the boxes at the top, which have the yellow image behind them (creating more contrast). If that image is not tall enough to do the job, maybe a different one with the same color would work better.
Even a fade out of the color used to the bottom of the page would work so that it is lighter at the bottom, but not white. I see what Thaseus is talking about, especially on the bottom two boxes. They seem to just hang there on the end. Of course, this image only shows up on desktop sized browser windows, as soon as I shrink the window to a full tablet size the image is gone, but all the extra space to either side of the boxes is gone too.
If anything maybe a minor tweak of light color instead of white background could help, but what you have now is far better and more professional than all the other iterations of it. Keep up the great work and thanks for listening to all of us.
PbP - Beregost Blues - Portia Starflower, Half Elf, Cleric, Life Domain
PbP - Tome of Annhilation - Vistani Mocanu, Human, Bard
Just checked out the latest update in which you added images of the scroll and book at the bottom of the compendium page. That is definitely an improvement. I still think it would look even better if you used a full piece of art that extends all the way to the bottom of the page, so you may want to try that. What you did is definitely an improvement, though, compared to having just the original yellow image that cut off halfway down the page and left the rest of the page (the bottom) with a white background.