You might have endured exposure to raw magic, perhaps through a planar portal leading to Limbo, the Elemental Planes, or the Far Realm. Perhaps you were blessed by a fey being or marked by a demon.
Man, it's in the description of the class itself.
Now, if you tell me you want an actual DESCENDANT form a fey, ok, I can see how Wild Magic would not apply, but please let's not present personal interpretations and preferences on what something is or is not as absolute truth, shall we?
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Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
it would be like saying a succubus definition is literally uncontrolled raging ugly beast . that would be very very very far from the origins of succubus.
Umm.... the origins of the succubus was an ugly, spiteful hag that sat on people's chests and sucked their breath while they slept after paralyzing them, and they were known to fly into rages when they couldn't get their meals. The scientific explanation ties it back into sleep paralysis, sleep walking and other sleeping disorders. And its dangerous to wake up a sleepwalker because they could hurt you or themselves while trying to be woken up.
So, bad example, because that kind of is the origin of the succubus.
From a D&D perspective, the Fey have historically been found in the Chaotic Good planes. Emphasis on the word Chaotic here, as in opposed to Lawful and orderly. So, yes, wild magic having a tie to the fae has precidence from a D&D perspective as well.
Ummm... an integrated map maker. I currently use a 3rd party to make maps. It would be great if I could create my own maps inside D & D beyond.
More DM controls such as automatically rolling and setting initiative for players and monsters. Then starting at the top and moving down.
A conversion feature that will take a "Player Character" and turn it into a monster. There are incredibly few NPCs available in the Monster Manuals. It takes a lot of effort to create them and at least until I bought the subscription I had to make the NPCs and convert it into a monster (given I only had six xlots). In any event I would like to conversion to move them and/or a release that just has a lot of NPC types to add color.
Now, if you tell me you want an actual DESCENDANT form a fey, ok, I can see how Wild Magic would not apply, but please let's not present personal interpretations and preferences on what something is or is not as absolute truth, shall we?
I prefer bloodlines for sorcerers. If someone wants to use Wild magic, they are free to use it.
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Currently DM : The Sunless Citadel with bloodthirsty players.
it would be like saying a succubus definition is literally uncontrolled raging ugly beast . that would be very very very far from the origins of succubus.
Umm.... the origins of the succubus was an ugly, spiteful hag that sat on people's chests and sucked their breath while they slept after paralyzing them, and they were known to fly into rages when they couldn't get their meals. The scientific explanation ties it back into sleep paralysis, sleep walking and other sleeping disorders. And its dangerous to wake up a sleepwalker because they could hurt you or themselves while trying to be woken up.
So, bad example, because that kind of is the origin of the succubus.
From a D&D perspective, the Fey have historically been found in the Chaotic Good planes. Emphasis on the word Chaotic here, as in opposed to Lawful and orderly. So, yes, wild magic having a tie to the fae has precidence from a D&D perspective as well.
using myths and urban legends of real life things, is really not D&D at all, i'm not talking about origins of those myths. because if that was the case, then the vampires are very very far from what we see in d&d. Succubus in D&D lore have never ever been the hag like creature you are talking about and that is what i'm talking about.
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DM of two gaming groups. Likes to create stuff. Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games --> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
You might have endured exposure to raw magic, perhaps through a planar portal leading to Limbo, the Elemental Planes, or the Far Realm. Perhaps you were blessed by a fey being or marked by a demon.
Man, it's in the description of the class itself.
Now, if you tell me you want an actual DESCENDANT form a fey, ok, I can see how Wild Magic would not apply, but please let's not present personal interpretations and preferences on what something is or is not as absolute truth, shall we?
Just a question to you LeK... were you inbt he head of the designers ? because much like me, you are not. and thus unless you have a real good connection with them, you ar elke me and can only say things based on what you see, but most of all...interpret yourself what what you want. if you want to read that description and think thats a fey, its your thing and its fine... but when i consider everything they have done that is fey related, and then compare wild magic to it. it really do not adds up. it is fact that every single fey in the MM or in the lore of campaign guides, have never ever spoken of fey that are wild and uncontrolled and using magic that can outright kill you by just casting something trivial.
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DM of two gaming groups. Likes to create stuff. Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games --> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
You might have endured exposure to raw magic, perhaps through a planar portal leading to Limbo, the Elemental Planes, or the Far Realm. Perhaps you were blessed by a fey being or marked by a demon.
Man, it's in the description of the class itself.
Now, if you tell me you want an actual DESCENDANT form a fey, ok, I can see how Wild Magic would not apply, but please let's not present personal interpretations and preferences on what something is or is not as absolute truth, shall we?
Just a question to you LeK... were you inbt he head of the designers ? because much like me, you are not. and thus unless you have a real good connection with them, you ar elke me and can only say things based on what you see, but most of all...interpret yourself what what you want. if you want to read that description and think thats a fey, its your thing and its fine... but when i consider everything they have done that is fey related, and then compare wild magic to it. it really do not adds up. it is fact that every single fey in the MM or in the lore of campaign guides, have never ever spoken of fey that are wild and uncontrolled and using magic that can outright kill you by just casting something trivial.
I do not think I ever claimed that Wild Magic makes the sorceror a Fey, I am just saying that conceptually it was intended to be a possible Fey origin.
Now, as I said, I agree that if you want a Fey descendence Origin, Wild Magic is not for you, but you stated that Wild Magic cannot possibly apply to a Fey thematic because it is too far away from the concept of Fey, while the connection to the Fey is right there in the official description of the subclasses in the PHB, that is all. Therefore you used what you perceive as what a Fey should be and applied that to outright exclude a possibility presenting your preference as matter of fact, which is, in my opinion, not a good way to go in a discussion, but I might be wrong.
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Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
it would be like saying a succubus definition is literally uncontrolled raging ugly beast . that would be very very very far from the origins of succubus.
Umm.... the origins of the succubus was an ugly, spiteful hag that sat on people's chests and sucked their breath while they slept after paralyzing them, and they were known to fly into rages when they couldn't get their meals. The scientific explanation ties it back into sleep paralysis, sleep walking and other sleeping disorders. And its dangerous to wake up a sleepwalker because they could hurt you or themselves while trying to be woken up.
So, bad example, because that kind of is the origin of the succubus.
From a D&D perspective, the Fey have historically been found in the Chaotic Good planes. Emphasis on the word Chaotic here, as in opposed to Lawful and orderly. So, yes, wild magic having a tie to the fae has precidence from a D&D perspective as well.
using myths and urban legends of real life things, is really not D&D at all, i'm not talking about origins of those myths. because if that was the case, then the vampires are very very far from what we see in d&d. Succubus in D&D lore have never ever been the hag like creature you are talking about and that is what i'm talking about.
Lek, Why areyou bringing the thousands of years of rich folk law heritige into a discussion about D&d. It's not like it is based heavily on the works of tolkien, which were not literally themselves based on norse folklore. Dragons in D&D were invented by The Gygax and weren't influenced by the tales of St. George and King Arthur and even the Silmarillion. They are literally different.
In my world a succubus is literally a type of shapechanger but just because it can change shape doesn't mean it is wild. To call it a vicious ugly beast would be wrong because it normally isn't as it is an illusion. It is nothing like what you discribe.
Like DnDPaladin said "using myths and urban legends of real life things, is really not D&D at all." The Succubus of D&D IS NOT based on the real life creature. That would probably break allsorts of copyright laws. You can't compare the two as it is like comparing claret with Bordeaux red.
Back on thread: what I would like to see from 5th Edition in 2018 is new versions of all monsters, so that when players are attacked by a red dragon and put up fire resistance spells I can laugh at how stupid they are while acid poisons them. Players all have such easy access to monsters stats and it is ruining the fun of discovery.
TL:DR "A rabbit is not always a rabbit." - Elminster of Shadowfax.
Edit: Apologies to Mephista; I read both of the above posts and got confused into thinking the second reply was to Lek, hence my scolding tone. (I knew he would just laugh on go about his day!) I Certainly would not take that tone with you, as frankly, you scare me a little. Even with your new forum picture/avatar.
I bring it up because, in part, I found it mildly amusing that the succubus did indeed have roots as a vicious, violent ugly creature. Even if you stick entirely with D&D lore, there have always been elements of the succubus "true form" having elements of hideousness, and as creatures of the Abyss (pre-4e), they were vicious, sadistic creatures that enjoyed causing pain and suffering. To say otherwise is slightly mistaken.
To turn this discussion back to wild magic sorcerer for a moment - a while ago, I was messing around with the concept of a gambler, a character that specialized in luck manipulation, and used things like coin toss / darts and cards. Now, the game I made this character fizzled, but I did have fun with my lightfoot halfling (urban bounty hunter) wild magic sorcerer. I didn't quite specify how the halfling got the magic, but I did hint about ties to the halfling pantheon and their innate luck. Anyways, moving on, the point is that this character was very much a magical trickster type, messing around with spells like Color Spray, Charm Person, Sleep, Crown of Madness, Hold Person, etc. Surprisingly fun and effective. People do focus a lot on the wild magic table with this subclass, but you can do a rather effective, well, enchanter type with the sorcerer, and I think it could very well be "fey like" for some definitions of fey. I do consider luck-manipulation to be up that ally. That said, I can also see where people wouldn't be happy with that as a fey-like thing; there's a lot of different ways to have something be "fae-like." So, I'm not saying that you have to consider Wild Magic to be the fae subclass, but rather it has potential along those lines, if you like that kind of fae.
And now, I'm going to babble a bit about the fey in D&D 5e for a moment. Its pretty... inconsistent. Now, the game started off where magic was just Magic User and Cleric. Fae had some Magic User stuff in them. In time, the game evolved, and we had more kinds of magic, though the fae kept bits of wizardry, which included elemental manipulation. In general, the Fae were linked with the elves in kind of flimsy way, and we ended up with fae stuff having a lot in common with the CG outer planes, and association with the elf pantheon (Seldarine). In fact, the elf pantheon includes gods for pegasi and nixies, possibly other kinds of fae as well. There was kind of a nature vibe as well; some fey critters are seen as "spirits of nature." But the problem with that is? Spirits of nature are all over, and often minor gods or celestial beasts running around. And, of course, there's the magical trickster Tinkerbell and Puck-style, which you see with pixies and sprites, and a healthy side of dryads and satyrs. Which doesn't quite gel with a number of other fae-beings, which leads to a confusing spiral.
So, when all is said and done, the nature of faeries in pretty open ended. There's no firm definition in place anywhere to tell what the fae ARE, or what they do. Even the Feywild, with its Summer and Gloaming Courts, are kinda hard to follow, because, to be honest, those Courts still share a lot in common with the Seldarine and its dark counterpart. Its like they took some outer planes, bunched them together, tossed them down into a new "plane" and kinda just left it there, overlapping with everything else. As a result, we just have a collection of vaguely related things that can include any number of things, and we're not really sure which way it goes. The only other group with as much variety as the fey are the demons of the Abyss, and even the Abyss benefits from having the Demon Princes at least give different thematic direction to the different groups within the Abyss.
Personally, I can't help but think that the best way to describe the fae, in general? They're all bard variations; or, rather, the bard reflects the fae. The bard has a bit of plant magic, its got trickery, its got some stealth and backstabbery and shadows (hello, college of whispers!), its got dabbling in magics (hi hags!). There's dream-like qualities to faerie as well that I think bard capture as well.
Which brings me back to the purpose of this thread. Right now, I consider the fey to really be redundant. We don't need a category for what amounts to variations of hags, pixies/sprites, dryads/nereids and the blink dog. The Feywild could be scoured out of existence, and I don't think any story would suffer, easily replacing the material echo plane with the appropriate Outer Plane. Or, heck, even just wild regions in the normal Material world. If the fae are going to be a thing going forwards? Then I really want to see it expanded, ideas firmed up, a good direction and idea implemented, and the fat/redundancy trimmed off. Right now, you might as well not be there. There's a reason why we collapsed the Elemental planes from the eighteen back down to four. The Shadowfell basically swallowed up the Domains of Dread, the Plane of Shadow, the Negative Energy plane; we have Castle Ravenloft here, you can have stories about coming to find a ghost on its way to judgement (transitive plane for souls), stories about things like the Shadow Weave. The Feywild doesn't do that. It needs to start, and that's what I would like to see in 5e.
More plane touched beings. We got the Devilkin (Tieflings) we got the asimar, we got the Gensai. What about the Casin, the Axani, the Di'hin'ni, the Fey'ri, wisperlings and more.
i lole tp see some cross over , expedition to Barren peaks types. fantasy and science fiction adventure or campaign perhaps something plane scape or spell jammer!
I bring it up because, in part, I found it mildly amusing that the succubus did indeed have roots as a vicious, violent ugly creature. Even if you stick entirely with D&D lore, there have always been elements of the succubus "true form" having elements of hideousness, and as creatures of the Abyss (pre-4e), they were vicious, sadistic creatures that enjoyed causing pain and suffering. To say otherwise is slightly mistaken.
To turn this discussion back to wild magic sorcerer for a moment - a while ago, I was messing around with the concept of a gambler, a character that specialized in luck manipulation, and used things like coin toss / darts and cards. Now, the game I made this character fizzled, but I did have fun with my lightfoot halfling (urban bounty hunter) wild magic sorcerer. I didn't quite specify how the halfling got the magic, but I did hint about ties to the halfling pantheon and their innate luck. Anyways, moving on, the point is that this character was very much a magical trickster type, messing around with spells like Color Spray, Charm Person, Sleep, Crown of Madness, Hold Person, etc. Surprisingly fun and effective. People do focus a lot on the wild magic table with this subclass, but you can do a rather effective, well, enchanter type with the sorcerer, and I think it could very well be "fey like" for some definitions of fey. I do consider luck-manipulation to be up that ally. That said, I can also see where people wouldn't be happy with that as a fey-like thing; there's a lot of different ways to have something be "fae-like." So, I'm not saying that you have to consider Wild Magic to be the fae subclass, but rather it has potential along those lines, if you like that kind of fae.
And now, I'm going to babble a bit about the fey in D&D 5e for a moment. Its pretty... inconsistent. Now, the game started off where magic was just Magic User and Cleric. Fae had some Magic User stuff in them. In time, the game evolved, and we had more kinds of magic, though the fae kept bits of wizardry, which included elemental manipulation. In general, the Fae were linked with the elves in kind of flimsy way, and we ended up with fae stuff having a lot in common with the CG outer planes, and association with the elf pantheon (Seldarine). In fact, the elf pantheon includes gods for pegasi and nixies, possibly other kinds of fae as well. There was kind of a nature vibe as well; some fey critters are seen as "spirits of nature." But the problem with that is? Spirits of nature are all over, and often minor gods or celestial beasts running around. And, of course, there's the magical trickster Tinkerbell and Puck-style, which you see with pixies and sprites, and a healthy side of dryads and satyrs. Which doesn't quite gel with a number of other fae-beings, which leads to a confusing spiral.
So, when all is said and done, the nature of faeries in pretty open ended. There's no firm definition in place anywhere to tell what the fae ARE, or what they do. Even the Feywild, with its Summer and Gloaming Courts, are kinda hard to follow, because, to be honest, those Courts still share a lot in common with the Seldarine and its dark counterpart. Its like they took some outer planes, bunched them together, tossed them down into a new "plane" and kinda just left it there, overlapping with everything else. As a result, we just have a collection of vaguely related things that can include any number of things, and we're not really sure which way it goes. The only other group with as much variety as the fey are the demons of the Abyss, and even the Abyss benefits from having the Demon Princes at least give different thematic direction to the different groups within the Abyss.
Personally, I can't help but think that the best way to describe the fae, in general? They're all bard variations; or, rather, the bard reflects the fae. The bard has a bit of plant magic, its got trickery, its got some stealth and backstabbery and shadows (hello, college of whispers!), its got dabbling in magics (hi hags!). There's dream-like qualities to faerie as well that I think bard capture as well.
Which brings me back to the purpose of this thread. Right now, I consider the fey to really be redundant. We don't need a category for what amounts to variations of hags, pixies/sprites, dryads/nereids and the blink dog. The Feywild could be scoured out of existence, and I don't think any story would suffer, easily replacing the material echo plane with the appropriate Outer Plane. Or, heck, even just wild regions in the normal Material world. If the fae are going to be a thing going forwards? Then I really want to see it expanded, ideas firmed up, a good direction and idea implemented, and the fat/redundancy trimmed off. Right now, you might as well not be there. There's a reason why we collapsed the Elemental planes from the eighteen back down to four. The Shadowfell basically swallowed up the Domains of Dread, the Plane of Shadow, the Negative Energy plane; we have Castle Ravenloft here, you can have stories about coming to find a ghost on its way to judgement (transitive plane for souls), stories about things like the Shadow Weave. The Feywild doesn't do that. It needs to start, and that's what I would like to see in 5e.
I bring it up because, in part, I found it mildly amusing that the succubus did indeed have roots as a vicious, violent ugly creature. Even if you stick entirely with D&D lore, there have always been elements of the succubus "true form" having elements of hideousness, and as creatures of the Abyss (pre-4e), they were vicious, sadistic creatures that enjoyed causing pain and suffering. To say otherwise is slightly mistaken.
To turn this discussion back to wild magic sorcerer for a moment - a while ago, I was messing around with the concept of a gambler, a character that specialized in luck manipulation, and used things like coin toss / darts and cards. Now, the game I made this character fizzled, but I did have fun with my lightfoot halfling (urban bounty hunter) wild magic sorcerer. I didn't quite specify how the halfling got the magic, but I did hint about ties to the halfling pantheon and their innate luck. Anyways, moving on, the point is that this character was very much a magical trickster type, messing around with spells like Color Spray, Charm Person, Sleep, Crown of Madness, Hold Person, etc. Surprisingly fun and effective. People do focus a lot on the wild magic table with this subclass, but you can do a rather effective, well, enchanter type with the sorcerer, and I think it could very well be "fey like" for some definitions of fey. I do consider luck-manipulation to be up that ally. That said, I can also see where people wouldn't be happy with that as a fey-like thing; there's a lot of different ways to have something be "fae-like." So, I'm not saying that you have to consider Wild Magic to be the fae subclass, but rather it has potential along those lines, if you like that kind of fae.
And now, I'm going to babble a bit about the fey in D&D 5e for a moment. Its pretty... inconsistent. Now, the game started off where magic was just Magic User and Cleric. Fae had some Magic User stuff in them. In time, the game evolved, and we had more kinds of magic, though the fae kept bits of wizardry, which included elemental manipulation. In general, the Fae were linked with the elves in kind of flimsy way, and we ended up with fae stuff having a lot in common with the CG outer planes, and association with the elf pantheon (Seldarine). In fact, the elf pantheon includes gods for pegasi and nixies, possibly other kinds of fae as well. There was kind of a nature vibe as well; some fey critters are seen as "spirits of nature." But the problem with that is? Spirits of nature are all over, and often minor gods or celestial beasts running around. And, of course, there's the magical trickster Tinkerbell and Puck-style, which you see with pixies and sprites, and a healthy side of dryads and satyrs. Which doesn't quite gel with a number of other fae-beings, which leads to a confusing spiral.
So, when all is said and done, the nature of faeries in pretty open ended. There's no firm definition in place anywhere to tell what the fae ARE, or what they do. Even the Feywild, with its Summer and Gloaming Courts, are kinda hard to follow, because, to be honest, those Courts still share a lot in common with the Seldarine and its dark counterpart. Its like they took some outer planes, bunched them together, tossed them down into a new "plane" and kinda just left it there, overlapping with everything else. As a result, we just have a collection of vaguely related things that can include any number of things, and we're not really sure which way it goes. The only other group with as much variety as the fey are the demons of the Abyss, and even the Abyss benefits from having the Demon Princes at least give different thematic direction to the different groups within the Abyss.
Personally, I can't help but think that the best way to describe the fae, in general? They're all bard variations; or, rather, the bard reflects the fae. The bard has a bit of plant magic, its got trickery, its got some stealth and backstabbery and shadows (hello, college of whispers!), its got dabbling in magics (hi hags!). There's dream-like qualities to faerie as well that I think bard capture as well.
Which brings me back to the purpose of this thread. Right now, I consider the fey to really be redundant. We don't need a category for what amounts to variations of hags, pixies/sprites, dryads/nereids and the blink dog. The Feywild could be scoured out of existence, and I don't think any story would suffer, easily replacing the material echo plane with the appropriate Outer Plane. Or, heck, even just wild regions in the normal Material world. If the fae are going to be a thing going forwards? Then I really want to see it expanded, ideas firmed up, a good direction and idea implemented, and the fat/redundancy trimmed off. Right now, you might as well not be there. There's a reason why we collapsed the Elemental planes from the eighteen back down to four. The Shadowfell basically swallowed up the Domains of Dread, the Plane of Shadow, the Negative Energy plane; we have Castle Ravenloft here, you can have stories about coming to find a ghost on its way to judgement (transitive plane for souls), stories about things like the Shadow Weave. The Feywild doesn't do that. It needs to start, and that's what I would like to see in 5e.
from what i just read in that post... you basically want WotC to get rid of their own lore they created years ago, and just change it to what "You" want it to be. i doubt that will ever happen, if you want hags, pixie and satyr to be all the same creature, it is your call. but i for one love the redundancy of the creatures. i like the fact that pretty much all of the fey creatures are all about charm and beauty. i love that they enjoy life to the fullest. after all to me, they are the epitome of life, they live in a natural world where dangers lurks every corner and where pretty things are all deadly. where the shadowfell is plain and boringly the same all around. but thats fine with me, because the shadowfell is the inverse of the feywild. as for elmental zones, they haven't gone down to only 4. there are still half planes in the wheel. if you look closely they are still there. what i mean by that is that shadowfell is shadow and feywild is light. that's why they removed some of the other planes, because many of the actual planes already covers the many elements. they haven't removed said elements, they only trimmed what was unnecessary. this is part of what you want from your post, but you also ask them to trim and remove said redundency... which is not something you can do in a world... many monsters are redundant yes, but they are necessary... Humans for exemple... they are all humans with the same stats, yet you will put many races of them. are you suggesting they remove the entirety of their races just because they are all the same thing ?
this is why its better to stick to their lore instead of trying to make things balanced. because it makes much much more sense to have lore then to have balance and all things trimmed down to the core.
PS: i never said succubus were hapopy and loving... i literally said they are devils who enjoys torturing people with their charms and trickery. but by your own definition, i think you are mistaking succubus with Lamia.
DM of two gaming groups. Likes to create stuff. Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games --> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
So, when all is said and done, the nature of faeries in pretty open ended. There's no firm definition in place anywhere to tell what the fae ARE, or what they do. Even the Feywild, with its Summer and Gloaming Courts, are kinda hard to follow, because, to be honest, those Courts still share a lot in common with the Seldarine and its dark counterpart.
The Feywild is a realm of intense emotions. Fey are emotional creatures, in some cases literally. Heck, look at Redcaps:
Blood Lust Personified. In the Feywild, or where the plane touches the world at a fey crossing, if a sentient creature acts on an intense desire for bloodshed, one or more redcaps might appear where the blood of the slain person soaks the ground.
It's also the Shadowfell's opposite, which is a realm where depression tends to set in.
So, when all is said and done, the nature of faeries in pretty open ended. There's no firm definition in place anywhere to tell what the fae ARE, or what they do. Even the Feywild, with its Summer and Gloaming Courts, are kinda hard to follow, because, to be honest, those Courts still share a lot in common with the Seldarine and its dark counterpart.
The Feywild is a realm of intense emotions. Fey are emotional creatures, in some cases literally. Heck, look at Redcaps:
Blood Lust Personified. In the Feywild, or where the plane touches the world at a fey crossing, if a sentient creature acts on an intense desire for bloodshed, one or more redcaps might appear where the blood of the slain person soaks the ground.
It's also the Shadowfell's opposite, which is a realm where depression tends to set in.
The whole point of my rant is that the Shadowfell is filled with several different types of stories and plot hooks. The Feywild? Not so much. I actually know a lot more about the Feywild than you think, even more than covered in that video. Fun fact - the Feywild was basically (in 4e) was meant to absorb the Plane of Positive Energy. It was actually one of the interesting pushes I thought that 4e had - make all the different planes into something different and interesting to visit. The Shadowfell became a mix of the Domains of Dread demiplane, the Plane of Shadow, and the Fugue Plane. The Feywild was meant to be exploring-possible version of the Plane of Positive Energy, filled with overabundant life, mixed with the Plane of Faerie. Strong emotions are an outgrowth of "everything super-alive" that came from the Positive Energy Plane. The problem being that the Feywild inherited the lack of stories the original Plane of Faerie and Positive Energy Plane had.
Now, the direction they're going in is a good start, but more needs to be done. Like, notice in the video, how Mr Mearls talks about how, in the Shadowfell, the players are the dynamic force changing things, while in the Feywild, they're just trying to stabilize things to survive? The former is the heart of any story - the protagonists of a story are generally supposed to be catalysts of change and growth. That's the point. Protagonists being proactive. That latter is basically just wilderness survival story, where the environment acts upon the characters, which you get by leaving pretty much any established city in the game. Untamed wilderness is pretty much the bread and butter of D&D. There's a reason why humanoid monsters are called "savage" races. The game heavily hinges on civilization striving against the dangerous things outside, against the barbarians at the gates. That's pretty much the default Material Plane. The Feywild is just more of that. Maybe dialed up to gonzo levels. But still the same stories. Or, in the case of navigating fey courts, its much like regular politics, taken to extremes.
I don't know, maybe people were finding that the wilderness in the Material Plane to be too tame, or something now? Is that the appeal? Higher level threats?
Like, notice in the video, how Mr Mearls talks about how, in the Shadowfell, the players are the dynamic force changing things, while in the Feywild, they're just trying to stabilize things to survive? The former is the heart of any story - the protagonists of a story are generally supposed to be catalysts of change and growth. That's the point.
I think that's kinda reductionist. That's certainly not the point of Moby Dick; it's a story about obsession.
That latter is basically just wilderness survival story, where the environment acts upon the characters, which you get by leaving pretty much any established city in the game.
Well, you could say that about any other plane, and stories where the environment acts upon the character are a valid kind of story. It's also not the only kind of story you can tell there. Someone you care about might've been kidnapped by a hag and taken to the Feywild. A fey lord might decide to expand his influence into the material plane. Or maybe orcs found a fey crossing and they've decided to invade the Feywild. You might be there to find a long-lost magic item. Someone could be manipulating the fey courts into going to war against each other. You might've stumbled through a fey crossing and now you're trying to get back home.
Some people just really dig anything related to fey or faeries, and the whole super magical, wonderful, colorful fairy tale land aesthetic. Magical realms with splendor beyond anything the real world can compete with are a classic trope. That's reason enough for the Feywild to exist.
@Mephista, are you basically saying that even though it is a "Good" plane, you would like to see more published to highlight the dangers of the Feywild. Possibly make it more like the planet from Avatar? Or maybe with areas more akin to Harry Harrison's DeathWorld series, where nature is out to get you.
The Shadowfell has its shadowy nature - something with no real earthly analogue, while they Feywild just seems to be how the world might be without the influence of mankind. (The wildlife around Chernobyl is thriving recently.) The Feywild needs something to make it unique, a reason why the PCs are adventuring there and not just the Amazon Rain Forest or Endor/Kashyyyk.
Slapping a coven of hags, a dozen satyrs and a herd of treants into a forest does not convince me I am on another plane of reality.
More players faces as we play more D&D is what i'd like to see in 2018
AMEN!!!!
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"...Debts must always be paid, sometimes in more than blood and gold. But this is Ordo Ursa," Ren places his hand on Erakas's chest, right where the Dragonborn's heart is. "Right here. And it always has been and always will be. Don't ever forget that. Because I won't."
Serandis Mendaen (Aereni Elven Rogue/maybe one day Wizard)- Project Point Playtest
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Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
Ummm... an integrated map maker. I currently use a 3rd party to make maps. It would be great if I could create my own maps inside D & D beyond.
More DM controls such as automatically rolling and setting initiative for players and monsters. Then starting at the top and moving down.
A conversion feature that will take a "Player Character" and turn it into a monster. There are incredibly few NPCs available in the Monster Manuals. It takes a lot of effort to create them and at least until I bought the subscription I had to make the NPCs and convert it into a monster (given I only had six xlots). In any event I would like to conversion to move them and/or a release that just has a lot of NPC types to add color.
Currently DM : The Sunless Citadel with bloodthirsty players.
DM of two gaming groups.
Likes to create stuff.
Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses
If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games
--> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
DM of two gaming groups.
Likes to create stuff.
Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses
If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games
--> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
Lek,Why areyou bringing the thousands of years of rich folk law heritige into a discussion about D&d. It's not like it is based heavily on the works of tolkien, which were not literally themselves based on norse folklore. Dragons in D&D were invented by The Gygax and weren't influenced by the tales of St. George and King Arthur and even the Silmarillion. They are literally different.Even with your new forum picture/avatar.
Roleplaying since Runequest.
I bring it up because, in part, I found it mildly amusing that the succubus did indeed have roots as a vicious, violent ugly creature. Even if you stick entirely with D&D lore, there have always been elements of the succubus "true form" having elements of hideousness, and as creatures of the Abyss (pre-4e), they were vicious, sadistic creatures that enjoyed causing pain and suffering. To say otherwise is slightly mistaken.
To turn this discussion back to wild magic sorcerer for a moment - a while ago, I was messing around with the concept of a gambler, a character that specialized in luck manipulation, and used things like coin toss / darts and cards. Now, the game I made this character fizzled, but I did have fun with my lightfoot halfling (urban bounty hunter) wild magic sorcerer. I didn't quite specify how the halfling got the magic, but I did hint about ties to the halfling pantheon and their innate luck. Anyways, moving on, the point is that this character was very much a magical trickster type, messing around with spells like Color Spray, Charm Person, Sleep, Crown of Madness, Hold Person, etc. Surprisingly fun and effective. People do focus a lot on the wild magic table with this subclass, but you can do a rather effective, well, enchanter type with the sorcerer, and I think it could very well be "fey like" for some definitions of fey. I do consider luck-manipulation to be up that ally. That said, I can also see where people wouldn't be happy with that as a fey-like thing; there's a lot of different ways to have something be "fae-like." So, I'm not saying that you have to consider Wild Magic to be the fae subclass, but rather it has potential along those lines, if you like that kind of fae.
And now, I'm going to babble a bit about the fey in D&D 5e for a moment. Its pretty... inconsistent. Now, the game started off where magic was just Magic User and Cleric. Fae had some Magic User stuff in them. In time, the game evolved, and we had more kinds of magic, though the fae kept bits of wizardry, which included elemental manipulation. In general, the Fae were linked with the elves in kind of flimsy way, and we ended up with fae stuff having a lot in common with the CG outer planes, and association with the elf pantheon (Seldarine). In fact, the elf pantheon includes gods for pegasi and nixies, possibly other kinds of fae as well. There was kind of a nature vibe as well; some fey critters are seen as "spirits of nature." But the problem with that is? Spirits of nature are all over, and often minor gods or celestial beasts running around. And, of course, there's the magical trickster Tinkerbell and Puck-style, which you see with pixies and sprites, and a healthy side of dryads and satyrs. Which doesn't quite gel with a number of other fae-beings, which leads to a confusing spiral.
So, when all is said and done, the nature of faeries in pretty open ended. There's no firm definition in place anywhere to tell what the fae ARE, or what they do. Even the Feywild, with its Summer and Gloaming Courts, are kinda hard to follow, because, to be honest, those Courts still share a lot in common with the Seldarine and its dark counterpart. Its like they took some outer planes, bunched them together, tossed them down into a new "plane" and kinda just left it there, overlapping with everything else. As a result, we just have a collection of vaguely related things that can include any number of things, and we're not really sure which way it goes. The only other group with as much variety as the fey are the demons of the Abyss, and even the Abyss benefits from having the Demon Princes at least give different thematic direction to the different groups within the Abyss.
Personally, I can't help but think that the best way to describe the fae, in general? They're all bard variations; or, rather, the bard reflects the fae. The bard has a bit of plant magic, its got trickery, its got some stealth and backstabbery and shadows (hello, college of whispers!), its got dabbling in magics (hi hags!). There's dream-like qualities to faerie as well that I think bard capture as well.
Which brings me back to the purpose of this thread. Right now, I consider the fey to really be redundant. We don't need a category for what amounts to variations of hags, pixies/sprites, dryads/nereids and the blink dog. The Feywild could be scoured out of existence, and I don't think any story would suffer, easily replacing the material echo plane with the appropriate Outer Plane. Or, heck, even just wild regions in the normal Material world. If the fae are going to be a thing going forwards? Then I really want to see it expanded, ideas firmed up, a good direction and idea implemented, and the fat/redundancy trimmed off. Right now, you might as well not be there. There's a reason why we collapsed the Elemental planes from the eighteen back down to four. The Shadowfell basically swallowed up the Domains of Dread, the Plane of Shadow, the Negative Energy plane; we have Castle Ravenloft here, you can have stories about coming to find a ghost on its way to judgement (transitive plane for souls), stories about things like the Shadow Weave. The Feywild doesn't do that. It needs to start, and that's what I would like to see in 5e.
More plane touched beings. We got the Devilkin (Tieflings) we got the asimar, we got the Gensai. What about the Casin, the Axani, the Di'hin'ni, the Fey'ri, wisperlings and more.
i lole tp see some cross over , expedition to Barren peaks types. fantasy and science fiction adventure or campaign perhaps something plane scape or spell jammer!
because it makes much much more sense to have lore then to have balance and all things trimmed down to the core.
DM of two gaming groups.
Likes to create stuff.
Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses
If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games
--> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
D&D borrows a lot from myths and folklore, even if it doesn't copy the material verbatim.
The Feywild is a realm of intense emotions. Fey are emotional creatures, in some cases literally. Heck, look at Redcaps:
It's also the Shadowfell's opposite, which is a realm where depression tends to set in.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
If you look really closely, you may detect a hint of sarcasm in my post.
Also I literally said that Succubus were real and that Claret....oh, NVM.....
Roleplaying since Runequest.
Poe's Law at work.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
The whole point of my rant is that the Shadowfell is filled with several different types of stories and plot hooks. The Feywild? Not so much. I actually know a lot more about the Feywild than you think, even more than covered in that video. Fun fact - the Feywild was basically (in 4e) was meant to absorb the Plane of Positive Energy. It was actually one of the interesting pushes I thought that 4e had - make all the different planes into something different and interesting to visit. The Shadowfell became a mix of the Domains of Dread demiplane, the Plane of Shadow, and the Fugue Plane. The Feywild was meant to be exploring-possible version of the Plane of Positive Energy, filled with overabundant life, mixed with the Plane of Faerie. Strong emotions are an outgrowth of "everything super-alive" that came from the Positive Energy Plane. The problem being that the Feywild inherited the lack of stories the original Plane of Faerie and Positive Energy Plane had.
Now, the direction they're going in is a good start, but more needs to be done. Like, notice in the video, how Mr Mearls talks about how, in the Shadowfell, the players are the dynamic force changing things, while in the Feywild, they're just trying to stabilize things to survive? The former is the heart of any story - the protagonists of a story are generally supposed to be catalysts of change and growth. That's the point. Protagonists being proactive. That latter is basically just wilderness survival story, where the environment acts upon the characters, which you get by leaving pretty much any established city in the game. Untamed wilderness is pretty much the bread and butter of D&D. There's a reason why humanoid monsters are called "savage" races. The game heavily hinges on civilization striving against the dangerous things outside, against the barbarians at the gates. That's pretty much the default Material Plane. The Feywild is just more of that. Maybe dialed up to gonzo levels. But still the same stories. Or, in the case of navigating fey courts, its much like regular politics, taken to extremes.
I don't know, maybe people were finding that the wilderness in the Material Plane to be too tame, or something now? Is that the appeal? Higher level threats?
I think that's kinda reductionist. That's certainly not the point of Moby Dick; it's a story about obsession.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
Things I want to see from Wizards:
* Races: warforged / shifters / changelings
* Classes: psion / mystic, artificer, warlord
* Campaigns: Something set in Eberron, something set in al'Qadim
@Mephista, are you basically saying that even though it is a "Good" plane, you would like to see more published to highlight the dangers of the Feywild. Possibly make it more like the planet from Avatar? Or maybe with areas more akin to Harry Harrison's DeathWorld series, where nature is out to get you.
The Shadowfell has its shadowy nature - something with no real earthly analogue, while they Feywild just seems to be how the world might be without the influence of mankind. (The wildlife around Chernobyl is thriving recently.) The Feywild needs something to make it unique, a reason why the PCs are adventuring there and not just the Amazon Rain Forest or Endor/Kashyyyk.
Slapping a coven of hags, a dozen satyrs and a herd of treants into a forest does not convince me I am on another plane of reality.
Roleplaying since Runequest.
"...Debts must always be paid, sometimes in more than blood and gold. But this is Ordo Ursa," Ren places his hand on Erakas's chest, right where the Dragonborn's heart is. "Right here. And it always has been and always will be. Don't ever forget that. Because I won't."
Serandis Mendaen (Aereni Elven Rogue/maybe one day Wizard)- Project Point Playtest