It is completely acceptable that a half orc might be born who is the runt and so needed to use his intelligence. If we used point buy or fixed array his strength will always be a min of 10 because of the auto plus 2 he wanted a strength of 8, the best way of getting that is moving the +2 strength and he wanted to move it to intelligence, what to most would be a dump stat for a warlock, because that made sense to his backstory.
You say that the character can be created anyway, how exactly?
Well, for one thing a 10 Str is a runt as far as Half-Orcs go. You want it to be smarter? Simple, put the 12 in Int.
And an even easier way to get a number lower than 8 to put in Str? Simple, roll your stats….
Ability scores: 1212910124
Oh hey, look at tha’ 👆, even with a +2 Str that 4 is only gonna be at most a 6. (Even runtier!) And if they even have average human luck (instead of my famously abysmal, terrible luck), they would actually have a couple good stats too. (Honestly, when 4d6 drop lowest gives a score of 4, that means I rolled three 1s and a 2 for crying out loud. Average would be 11, and my three highest rolls were three 12s. Everyone has better luck than me.)
I'm not going to lie, that is a pretty rough set of stats, but I could make it work. That 4 hurts, but I would likely go with a Human Wizard giving me a 13, 13, 10, 11, 13, 5. Since we also start with a free Feat at level 1, I would go with Skill Expert to lean into the book worm (+1 Int and Expert in either Arcana or History, and pick an Int Skill). 14 Int isn't great, but I have played worse. I could also switch that up to be a squeamish Cleric that would prefer to stay out of the fight and just buff and heal my friends. Likely keep the same Feat and just switch up the Expertise into Healing.
Edit: I guess this is pretty off topic though. Sorry
Oh hey, look at tha’ 👆, my famously abysmal, terrible luck. (Honestly, when 4d6 drop lowest gives a score of 4, that means I rolled three 1s and a 2 for crying out loud. Average would be 11, and my three highest rolls were three 12s. Everyone has better luck than me.)
I'm not going to lie, that is a pretty rough set of stats, but I could make it work….
Edit: I guess this is pretty off topic though. Sorry
All of my damage rolls are like that too. (All of them.)
Crawford's worst call has to be the goodberry interaction with Life Cleric's Disciple of Life class ability, that each berry gets the +3 healing bonus. Which makes a 1st level spell be capable of healing for 40 hp.
Crawford's worst call has to be the goodberry interaction with Life Cleric's Disciple of Life class ability, that each berry gets the +3 healing bonus. Which makes a 1st level spell be capable of healing for 40 hp.
Easily limited though for any DM bothered by that. Each berry is 1 day's nutrition. So you feel full after one. No one would feel good after eating 10 days worth of food. Frankly, I have always considered it more of an emergency food source than a healing spell.
The other obvious limitation is that they are berries, so they are harder to deliver as a healing method even than touch. You have to get close enough to hand them off and then the one to be healed has to have a free hand as well and still has to eat them. That is a lot of extra effort needed in combat and they might not work at all with unconscious victims, since they cannot really eat while unconscious. It isn't even a potion that could be poured down their throats.
If you are running a campaign with reduced healing, a life cleric would likely mess up your intended difficulty regardless, but even if there is one, you could still simply disallow the spell.
Also note the action economy. The spell specifies eating a single berry takes one action. So the spell is less effective than cure wounds in a combat situation (not getting into the movement economy of everyone swinging. by the berry holders palm to pick up the heal if they're trying to do a first level mass healing in battle). I suppose a Range or Druid dipped Life Cleric could be treated as bonus short rest hit dice if you wanted to burn spells during short rests. Like Kotath, I see the spell's true utility as nutritional in environments otherwise lacking sustenance.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Crawford's worst call has to be the goodberry interaction with Life Cleric's Disciple of Life class ability, that each berry gets the +3 healing bonus. Which makes a 1st level spell be capable of healing for 40 hp.
Easily limited though for any DM bothered by that. Each berry is 1 day's nutrition. So you feel full after one. No one would feel good after eating 10 days worth of food. Frankly, I have always considered it more of an emergency food source than a healing spell.
The other obvious limitation is that they are berries, so they are harder to deliver as a healing method even than touch. You have to get close enough to hand them off and then the one to be healed has to have a free hand as well and still has to eat them. That is a lot of extra effort needed in combat and they might not work at all with unconscious victims, since they cannot really eat while unconscious. It isn't even a potion that could be poured down their throats.
If you are running a campaign with reduced healing, a life cleric would likely mess up your intended difficulty regardless, but even if there is one, you could still simply disallow the spell.
Also note the action economy. The spell specifies eating a single berry takes one action. So the spell is less effective than cure wounds in a combat situation (not getting into the movement economy of everyone swinging. by the berry holders palm to pick up the heal if they're trying to do a first level mass healing in battle). I suppose a Range or Druid dipped Life Cleric could be treated as bonus short rest hit dice if you wanted to burn spells during short rests. Like Kotath, I see the spell's true utility as nutritional in environments otherwise lacking sustenance.
The healing would clearly be out of combat healing. But 40 pts of downtime healing for the cost of a 1st level spell is still out of whack. If you can't take a short or long rest, one 1st level spell can do 40 pts of healing with few drawbacks per RAW.
I think a DM can and should either ignore the Crawford ruling or impose drawbacks, since as Kotah points out...each berry is a full day's food. So if you want to get the full effect, perhaps you get one level of exhaustion for each goodberry beyond the first or second. So, you want to eat four berries for 12 hp? That's three levels of exhaustion! You eat four days worth of food in a single sitting, you would be definitely hurting and feeling sick! ;)
I think a DM can and should either ignore the Crawford ruling or impose drawbacks, since as Kotah points out...each berry is a full day's food.
By a straight reading of the ability it's just wrong, because eating (or giving someone) a goodberry is not using a spell. It's using an object created by a spell, which is equivalent to saying that you can use Empower Spell to boost the damage of Conjure Animals.
I REALLY think, especially with hand crossbow actually having the light property, you should be able to two-weapon fight with ranged weapons.
But you can do that. You just cant reload both of them.
Emphasis mine:
Two-Weapon Fighting
When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon that you're holding in one hand, you can use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee weapon that you're holding in the other hand.
If you're holding two hand crossbows, you can't use your bonus action to make an extra attack with one of them. You can attack with both of them if you have the Extra Attack feature, but that's not what people are referring to when they use the term "two-weapon fight".
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
I erratad Goodberry for our table with "A Creature that consumes a Goodberry can't benefit from another Goodberry until it has completed a long rest.".
I think a DM can and should either ignore the Crawford ruling or impose drawbacks, since as Kotah points out...each berry is a full day's food.
By a straight reading of the ability it's just wrong, because eating (or giving someone) a goodberry is not using a spell. It's using an object created by a spell, which is equivalent to saying that you can use Empower Spell to boost the damage of Conjure Animals.
Is it really so out of line if you could use Empower Spell to boost the damage of Conjure Animals, though? It only allows you to reroll dice and limits the number of dice you can reroll. So if it was used to re-roll the damage for the attack of any given conjured animal, how much would it really boost anything?
Wouldn't be out of line. Wouldn't be by the rules either. Do what you want with it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Good berry is RAW per JC and the berry is created with the ability to heal so they interaction makes sense RAW as well
It's a weird one for sure and technically there is no RAW drawbacks to eating all the berries.
However, if your going to Nerf it I would warn anyone taking life Cleric/druid combo it won't work
First, Crawford's tweets give us the Rules As Intended (RAI), not the RAW. If something is done in Errata, then it's RAW.
Second, it was stated multiple times, in the above comments, there are no RAW penalties for overeating, this would be DM Fiat or a solution to what we think is a bad ruling by Crawford.
Third, the whole point of this thread is things we disagree with Crawford about.
Good berry is RAW per JC and the berry is created with the ability to heal so they interaction makes sense RAW as well
It's a weird one for sure and technically there is no RAW drawbacks to eating all the berries.
However, if your going to Nerf it I would warn anyone taking life Cleric/druid combo it won't work
First, Crawford's tweets give us the Rules As Intended (RAI), not the RAW. If something is done in Errata, then it's RAW.
Second, it was stated multiple times, in the above comments, there are no RAW penalties for overeating, this would be DM Fiat or a solution to what we think is a bad ruling by Crawford.
Third, the whole point of this thread is things we disagree with Crawford about.
So you would let someone literally empty a lake by drinking it? There is no RAW preventing it, after all...
I don't have a horse in the this race, but the spell does not say that the berry's mass changes to fill up more space, just that it fulfills the bodies need for nourishment. Fully nourished and full belly are not the same thing.
The call was what it was and yes that's the point of the thread.
Part of this thread feels like what stupid rules exist RAW due to poor writing.
Goodberry + life Cleric works RAW.... But honestly I agree with the idea that a 1st level spell invalidates hit dice while you have the slots to burn is pretty silly. Also you can use it the night before you long rest as the berries are good for 24 hrs.
Good berry is RAW per JC and the berry is created with the ability to heal so they interaction makes sense RAW as well
It's a weird one for sure and technically there is no RAW drawbacks to eating all the berries.
However, if your going to Nerf it I would warn anyone taking life Cleric/druid combo it won't work
First, Crawford's tweets give us the Rules As Intended (RAI), not the RAW. If something is done in Errata, then it's RAW.
Second, it was stated multiple times, in the above comments, there are no RAW penalties for overeating, this would be DM Fiat or a solution to what we think is a bad ruling by Crawford.
Third, the whole point of this thread is things we disagree with Crawford about.
So you would let someone literally empty a lake by drinking it? There is no RAW preventing it, after all...
I don't have a horse in the this race, but the spell does not say that the berry's mass changes to fill up more space, just that it fulfills the bodies need for nourishment. Fully nourished and full belly are not the same thing.
Thank you. I was just about to post the same thing. I’m no doctor, but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night <insert rimshot>. I do believe you can get nourishment via an IV but it doesn’t fill your stomach.
And I think by the reading of the rules it does work as JC stated. But please stop nerfing or asking to be nerfed Goodberry. Instead of nerfing a core spell of a core class, how about asking a “feature” of a subclass, not the core class itself, to be tweaked to not allow the interaction.
The upshot is I don't believe Goodberry to truly be a "healing spell." I think it supplies nourishment, with what throughout the whole history of DnD was a minor healing property on the created object. I think 4 hp per berry, when you can create 10 them for the cost of a first level spell is plain ludicrous.
Good berry is RAW per JC and the berry is created with the ability to heal so they interaction makes sense RAW as well
It's a weird one for sure and technically there is no RAW drawbacks to eating all the berries.
However, if your going to Nerf it I would warn anyone taking life Cleric/druid combo it won't work
First, Crawford's tweets give us the Rules As Intended (RAI), not the RAW. If something is done in Errata, then it's RAW.
Second, it was stated multiple times, in the above comments, there are no RAW penalties for overeating, this would be DM Fiat or a solution to what we think is a bad ruling by Crawford.
Third, the whole point of this thread is things we disagree with Crawford about.
So you would let someone literally empty a lake by drinking it? There is no RAW preventing it, after all...
I don't have a horse in the this race, but the spell does not say that the berry's mass changes to fill up more space, just that it fulfills the bodies need for nourishment. Fully nourished and full belly are not the same thing.
Thank you. I was just about to post the same thing. I’m no doctor, but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night <insert rimshot>. I do believe you can get nourishment via an IV but it doesn’t fill your stomach.
And I think by the reading of the rules it does work as JC stated. But please stop nerfing or asking to be nerfed Goodberry. Instead of nerfing a core spell of a core class, how about asking a “feature” of a subclass, not the core class itself, to be tweaked to not allow the interaction.
It does not say anywhere in the rules that food fills your stomach or takes up any more space. If you have too much more than the daily recommended amount of most things, it will cause you problems, not merely because of the mass.
LOL. Maybe not, but we do know that a single blue berry is not going fill your belly like a cheese burger. We don't need rules that tell us things we already know. Just like we don't need a rule that says you can't drink a whole lake. A eating 4 berries is not going to make anyone explode from over eating.
LOL. Maybe not, but we do know that a single blue berry is not going fill your belly like a cheese burger. We don't need rules that tell us things we already know. Just like we don't need a rule that says you can't drink a whole lake. A eating 4 berries is not going to make anyone explode from over eating.
Eating four helpings won't make one explode regardless, lol. However it may well make one ill.
That we do not need rules to tell us things we already know was my counter-point to "but the rules do not say..."
Edit: Although we should maybe start a separate thread to discuss this further? I was only suggesting options for those who think the spell is too good. Personally, I prefer the spell more as a food spell than a healing spell, but any given DM could set their own 'things they do not need rules to tell them' list.
The only thing that I would add and then I will shut up to keep the thread on point is, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the spell. It only heals 1 point, or 10 if you eat them all. Which is mainly an out of combat action. And that is not overpowered in my opinion.
The problem lies with the life cleric feature. If it added the bonus to each die rolled for healing, or to one die rolled (kind of like how an artificer artillerist Arcane Firearm adds damage) the problem would be gone, as far as Goodberry is concerned. Yet a lot of people just argue Goodberry is OP and not the feature that is causing the problem.
I'm not going to lie, that is a pretty rough set of stats, but I could make it work. That 4 hurts, but I would likely go with a Human Wizard giving me a 13, 13, 10, 11, 13, 5. Since we also start with a free Feat at level 1, I would go with Skill Expert to lean into the book worm (+1 Int and Expert in either Arcana or History, and pick an Int Skill). 14 Int isn't great, but I have played worse. I could also switch that up to be a squeamish Cleric that would prefer to stay out of the fight and just buff and heal my friends. Likely keep the same Feat and just switch up the Expertise into Healing.
Edit: I guess this is pretty off topic though. Sorry
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
All of my damage rolls are like that too. (All of them.)
🤏 🤫😉
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Crawford's worst call has to be the goodberry interaction with Life Cleric's Disciple of Life class ability, that each berry gets the +3 healing bonus. Which makes a 1st level spell be capable of healing for 40 hp.
Also note the action economy. The spell specifies eating a single berry takes one action. So the spell is less effective than cure wounds in a combat situation (not getting into the movement economy of everyone swinging. by the berry holders palm to pick up the heal if they're trying to do a first level mass healing in battle). I suppose a Range or Druid dipped Life Cleric could be treated as bonus short rest hit dice if you wanted to burn spells during short rests. Like Kotath, I see the spell's true utility as nutritional in environments otherwise lacking sustenance.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
The healing would clearly be out of combat healing. But 40 pts of downtime healing for the cost of a 1st level spell is still out of whack. If you can't take a short or long rest, one 1st level spell can do 40 pts of healing with few drawbacks per RAW.
I think a DM can and should either ignore the Crawford ruling or impose drawbacks, since as Kotah points out...each berry is a full day's food. So if you want to get the full effect, perhaps you get one level of exhaustion for each goodberry beyond the first or second. So, you want to eat four berries for 12 hp? That's three levels of exhaustion! You eat four days worth of food in a single sitting, you would be definitely hurting and feeling sick! ;)
But you can do that. You just cant reload both of them.
Nugz - Kobold Level 4 Bloodhunter/Order of the Mutant - Out there looking for snacks and evil monsters.
Ultrix Schwarzdorn - Human Level 6 Artificer/Armorer - Retired and works in his new shop.
Quercus Espenkiel - Gnome Level 9 Wizard/Order of Scribes - Turned into a book and sits on a shelf.
Artin - Fairy Level 4 Sorcerer/Wild Magic - Busy with annoying the townsfolk. Again.
Jabor - Fire Genasi - Level 4 Wizard/School of Evocation - The First Flame, The Last Chaos. Probably in jail, again.
By a straight reading of the ability it's just wrong, because eating (or giving someone) a goodberry is not using a spell. It's using an object created by a spell, which is equivalent to saying that you can use Empower Spell to boost the damage of Conjure Animals.
Emphasis mine:
Two-Weapon Fighting
When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon that you're holding in one hand, you can use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee weapon that you're holding in the other hand.
If you're holding two hand crossbows, you can't use your bonus action to make an extra attack with one of them. You can attack with both of them if you have the Extra Attack feature, but that's not what people are referring to when they use the term "two-weapon fight".
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
I erratad Goodberry for our table with "A Creature that consumes a Goodberry can't benefit from another Goodberry until it has completed a long rest.".
#OpenDnD
Wouldn't be out of line. Wouldn't be by the rules either. Do what you want with it.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Good berry is RAW per JC and the berry is created with the ability to heal so they interaction makes sense RAW as well
It's a weird one for sure and technically there is no RAW drawbacks to eating all the berries.
However, if your going to Nerf it I would warn anyone taking life Cleric/druid combo it won't work
First, Crawford's tweets give us the Rules As Intended (RAI), not the RAW. If something is done in Errata, then it's RAW.
Second, it was stated multiple times, in the above comments, there are no RAW penalties for overeating, this would be DM Fiat or a solution to what we think is a bad ruling by Crawford.
Third, the whole point of this thread is things we disagree with Crawford about.
I don't have a horse in the this race, but the spell does not say that the berry's mass changes to fill up more space, just that it fulfills the bodies need for nourishment. Fully nourished and full belly are not the same thing.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
The call was what it was and yes that's the point of the thread.
Part of this thread feels like what stupid rules exist RAW due to poor writing.
Goodberry + life Cleric works RAW.... But honestly I agree with the idea that a 1st level spell invalidates hit dice while you have the slots to burn is pretty silly. Also you can use it the night before you long rest as the berries are good for 24 hrs.
Thank you. I was just about to post the same thing. I’m no doctor, but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night <insert rimshot>. I do believe you can get nourishment via an IV but it doesn’t fill your stomach.
And I think by the reading of the rules it does work as JC stated. But please stop nerfing or asking to be nerfed Goodberry. Instead of nerfing a core spell of a core class, how about asking a “feature” of a subclass, not the core class itself, to be tweaked to not allow the interaction.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
The upshot is I don't believe Goodberry to truly be a "healing spell." I think it supplies nourishment, with what throughout the whole history of DnD was a minor healing property on the created object. I think 4 hp per berry, when you can create 10 them for the cost of a first level spell is plain ludicrous.
Goodberry intoxciation graphically rendered, stop, don't:
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
LOL. Maybe not, but we do know that a single blue berry is not going fill your belly like a cheese burger. We don't need rules that tell us things we already know. Just like we don't need a rule that says you can't drink a whole lake. A eating 4 berries is not going to make anyone explode from over eating.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
That's a fair point.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
The only thing that I would add and then I will shut up to keep the thread on point is, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the spell. It only heals 1 point, or 10 if you eat them all. Which is mainly an out of combat action. And that is not overpowered in my opinion.
The problem lies with the life cleric feature. If it added the bonus to each die rolled for healing, or to one die rolled (kind of like how an artificer artillerist Arcane Firearm adds damage) the problem would be gone, as far as Goodberry is concerned. Yet a lot of people just argue Goodberry is OP and not the feature that is causing the problem.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?