It comes down to what you want your world to be. In my own game world, there are some "elemental" good and evil forces (largely celestial and fiend). Dragons are sort of, or at least their origins are, in many ways above that. But that's the deep dragon mythos in my game. Most of the dragons confined into the prime material Tiamat/Bahamat schema are very much Decepticons and Autobats. It's sort of chicken and eggy, but it's not so much inherent nature as sides have been chosen. The existing draconic lineages are much more powerful in influence on successive generations than what other mortal free will type beings are. So in the white dragon egg hatching example, it would attempt to kill then eat everyone in proximity. Under best circumstances its mother would be holding said prey down, granting it its first strength before leaving it to earn the rest of its strength (White Dragons maternalism is uniquely this "cold" so to speak among dragons). Now would a level 4-5 party contending with this hatching without its mother have too much difficulty dispatching it? No. Could they subduing and train it? No, this isn't a beast so bad luck there. If they do kill it, doom on them if they come across another white dragon, especially its mother. The hatching's death will smell on them pretty much forever, dragonlslaying is a permanent stain.
Dragons in my game setting are among the earliest races to inhabit the world. The may have been part of the process of its creation. They say so, but the Giants say otherwise and claim to predate the Dragons. Late-comers like Humans will probably never know for sure. I want Dragons to be awe inspiring, and even the metallic ones should provoke caution. They are potent beings with magical powers and most are far more intelligent than the average Human. Chromatic Dragons are to be feared.
In my setting, hatchlings are not found unattended. If you *think* you have found one all alone, you are probably up to your neck in dragonpoo and don't know it yet. Try attacking the bitty Dragon. See what it gets you. Given the life span of Dragons, the amount of time their parents need to hang around isn't at all long. Dragons grow up surprisingly fast. And yes, all that applies to the metallic Dragons. Don't mess with the kids, they have little sense of humor about that.
Part of my game is the epic struggle between Good and Evil. The alignment of monsters is fixed at if not before birth. It is not subject to change without magic being involved. A White Dragon Wyrmling crawls out of its shell as Chaotic Evil and it will remain so until it takes its dying breath. Humans are an oddity, an exception, and few of the other races really understand how they think. It makes them uncomfortable, and Humans are rarely fully trusted. Player Characters are an exception to almost all rules, and can be whatever alignment suits them.
I am pretty uncomfortable with the entire concept of a sentient "pet". Friend or ally, sure. Not a pet. A White Dragon Wyrmling hatches with an intelligence of 5. Admittedly, not too bright, but they are still smart enough to speak their own language.
Dragons live a long time indeed, and they can be patient if they must be. Humiliating one is never a good idea. They will pay you back with interest. Evil Dragons are surprisingly generous in this respect. If they can't hurt *you* they can take out their frustration on your ancestors, progeny, friends, allies, associates, property, places have been, places you once thought you might like to visit... "Never Laugh At A Living Dragon" indeed. Riding on the back of something that flies is a recipe for being dumped at 500 or more feet in the air, and if you don't go splat with enough force, you get roasted as well. You may get roasted just for spite. Crispy corpses are nicer.
I'll just say on "never laugh at a dragon." The exception of course is if the dragon's telling jokes. I wouldn't laugh at the dragon's jokes right away ... most dragons are above simple flattery and they know it will likely take most mortal minds "a while" to comprehend the punchline. If the dragon's particularly invested in the joke, they might even assist some mortals in the expansion of their lifespans to be in on it. But honestly, there's only one dragon in my game like. The rest of dragonkind regard her on a spectrum of bemusement to deep offense at her utter contempt for draconic gravitas. And her kinetic sculpture art collection takes up way too much space in a number of otherwise solemn draconic sanctuaries. I mean the more traditional painting and sculptures, fine, but the kinetic stuff is just noisy on top of massive and really, why? Just why?
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Dragons are intelligent creatures. No species of intelligent creatures can ever be universally one thing unles it’s a species of one creature. I mean, wasn’t that the whole point of the lineage thing…? This is likely because I started in 2e, and back then the monsters manual was clearly and decidedly written from a human centric point of you. So I always view those universal racial alignments as a stereotype from a human perspective.
Yes, all Chromatic Dragons are evil. They were created by an evil god Dragon, and initial offspring were evil. The parents would then kill any children that somehow became "good" while being raised in an "evil" culture.
And all Metallic Dragons tend to be on the "good" side, for the same reasons.
Now each and every Dragon is arrogant to some degree, as they realize they are right near the top of all creatures on the Prime Material Plane. Humanoid PC's are puny things, unless they manage to reach very high levels.
Should dragons always be evil? What I mean is dragons are seen as just monsters by DMs. I think dragons should be seen as NPCs. And with time NPCs can change alignment. I included a baby white dragon that imprinted on my players and they love him. He is CG in alignment.
You mean the good dragons are actually evil too? Well played dragons, well played indeed!
Yes, all Chromatic Dragons are evil. They were created by an evil god Dragon, and initial offspring were evil. The parents would then kill any children that somehow became "good" while being raised in an "evil" culture.
And all Metallic Dragons tend to be on the "good" side, for the same reasons.
Except, you know, in Ravnica and Eberron. There are even some outliers in the Forgotten Realms.
Now each and every Dragon is arrogant to some degree, as they realize they are right near the top of all creatures on the Prime Material Plane. Humanoid PC's are puny things, unless they manage to reach very high levels.
I don't disagree with any of this. Arrogance is inherent to the nature of most dragons that are intelligent enough to have a personality (so I'm assuming you're just talking about the True Dragons, not the dragon creature type. I don't think Pseudodragons or Fairy Dragons are very arrogant).
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
I do not think that they always need to be evil. However, chromatic dragons are generally considered evil across the majority of the rules (a.k.a. monster manuals) throughout the different editions of D&D and premade adventures. Those rules and adventures are just written like that as a basic foundational outline that DM's can build on.
A dragon is a mighty beast, the pinnacle of creation, the ultimate predator. All other creatures are nothing more than bugs beneath a dragon's feet. Why would the alignment rules of bugs apply to a dragon?
Is a human evil for using bug spray? The flies probably think so.
A dragon could be lawful good to other dragons but not manifest the same behaviour to lesser creatures. Those creatures see the killing and destruction and use the term "evil"; the dragon however might use the terms "getting food" or "entertainment" or "pest control".
In other words, the word "evil" in the monster manual is not necessarily the creatures' alignment; it may just be an indication of how GMs should be playing the creatures when dealing with PCs.
Or you could decide that the simple answer (and the answer D&D has used for decades) is the right answer - all chromatic dragons are —s.
A dragon is a mighty beast, the pinnacle of creation, the ultimate predator. All other creatures are nothing more than bugs beneath a dragon's feet. Why would the alignment rules of bugs apply to a dragon?
Is a human evil for using bug spray? The flies probably think so.
Yeah, like if only the alignment structure weren't also the axis of some of the eternal conflicts of the outer planes, and the flies of the material plane weren't somehow important or at least of value to those orchestrating the larger interplanar conflicts.
In all seriousness, I think I see what you're trying to say. Dragons for me in game are more forces of creation and destruction (hoarding is actually a practice that stems from a desire to appreciate or deprive/waste) which have equal weight in the law/chaos god/evil orienteering of the multiverse, but too fluid to really stay in one plane exclusively. Also the metallic/chromatic schism is "not all dragons" in my world too. There are stellar dragons for instance, and there are schisms in the Tiamat/Bahamut cycle that see something like salvation in such "greater dragons." They don't spend too much time in the proximity of mortal worlds, rather traveling the phlogiston or whatever the stuff is in my not quite spell jammer cosmology. These beings maintain stellar objects, at least the ones that are supposed to be there. Such a dragon's contact with a mortal world is usually an apocalyptic event. Other mortal worlds are literally built around them, their skies always changing.
Guess we know who plays the bard.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
A wise adventurer once said "never laugh at a live dragon."
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
It comes down to what you want your world to be. In my own game world, there are some "elemental" good and evil forces (largely celestial and fiend). Dragons are sort of, or at least their origins are, in many ways above that. But that's the deep dragon mythos in my game. Most of the dragons confined into the prime material Tiamat/Bahamat schema are very much Decepticons and Autobats. It's sort of chicken and eggy, but it's not so much inherent nature as sides have been chosen. The existing draconic lineages are much more powerful in influence on successive generations than what other mortal free will type beings are. So in the white dragon egg hatching example, it would attempt to kill then eat everyone in proximity. Under best circumstances its mother would be holding said prey down, granting it its first strength before leaving it to earn the rest of its strength (White Dragons maternalism is uniquely this "cold" so to speak among dragons). Now would a level 4-5 party contending with this hatching without its mother have too much difficulty dispatching it? No. Could they subduing and train it? No, this isn't a beast so bad luck there. If they do kill it, doom on them if they come across another white dragon, especially its mother. The hatching's death will smell on them pretty much forever, dragonlslaying is a permanent stain.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Dragons in my game setting are among the earliest races to inhabit the world. The may have been part of the process of its creation. They say so, but the Giants say otherwise and claim to predate the Dragons. Late-comers like Humans will probably never know for sure. I want Dragons to be awe inspiring, and even the metallic ones should provoke caution. They are potent beings with magical powers and most are far more intelligent than the average Human. Chromatic Dragons are to be feared.
In my setting, hatchlings are not found unattended. If you *think* you have found one all alone, you are probably up to your neck in dragonpoo and don't know it yet. Try attacking the bitty Dragon. See what it gets you. Given the life span of Dragons, the amount of time their parents need to hang around isn't at all long. Dragons grow up surprisingly fast. And yes, all that applies to the metallic Dragons. Don't mess with the kids, they have little sense of humor about that.
Part of my game is the epic struggle between Good and Evil. The alignment of monsters is fixed at if not before birth. It is not subject to change without magic being involved. A White Dragon Wyrmling crawls out of its shell as Chaotic Evil and it will remain so until it takes its dying breath. Humans are an oddity, an exception, and few of the other races really understand how they think. It makes them uncomfortable, and Humans are rarely fully trusted. Player Characters are an exception to almost all rules, and can be whatever alignment suits them.
I am pretty uncomfortable with the entire concept of a sentient "pet". Friend or ally, sure. Not a pet. A White Dragon Wyrmling hatches with an intelligence of 5. Admittedly, not too bright, but they are still smart enough to speak their own language.
Dragons live a long time indeed, and they can be patient if they must be. Humiliating one is never a good idea. They will pay you back with interest. Evil Dragons are surprisingly generous in this respect. If they can't hurt *you* they can take out their frustration on your ancestors, progeny, friends, allies, associates, property, places have been, places you once thought you might like to visit... "Never Laugh At A Living Dragon" indeed. Riding on the back of something that flies is a recipe for being dumped at 500 or more feet in the air, and if you don't go splat with enough force, you get roasted as well. You may get roasted just for spite. Crispy corpses are nicer.
<Insert clever signature here>
I'll just say on "never laugh at a dragon." The exception of course is if the dragon's telling jokes. I wouldn't laugh at the dragon's jokes right away ... most dragons are above simple flattery and they know it will likely take most mortal minds "a while" to comprehend the punchline. If the dragon's particularly invested in the joke, they might even assist some mortals in the expansion of their lifespans to be in on it. But honestly, there's only one dragon in my game like. The rest of dragonkind regard her on a spectrum of bemusement to deep offense at her utter contempt for draconic gravitas. And her kinetic sculpture art collection takes up way too much space in a number of otherwise solemn draconic sanctuaries. I mean the more traditional painting and sculptures, fine, but the kinetic stuff is just noisy on top of massive and really, why? Just why?
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Dragons are intelligent creatures. No species of intelligent creatures can ever be universally one thing unles it’s a species of one creature. I mean, wasn’t that the whole point of the lineage thing…? This is likely because I started in 2e, and back then the monsters manual was clearly and decidedly written from a human centric point of you. So I always view those universal racial alignments as a stereotype from a human perspective.
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Yes, all Chromatic Dragons are evil. They were created by an evil god Dragon, and initial offspring were evil. The parents would then kill any children that somehow became "good" while being raised in an "evil" culture.
And all Metallic Dragons tend to be on the "good" side, for the same reasons.
Now each and every Dragon is arrogant to some degree, as they realize they are right near the top of all creatures on the Prime Material Plane. Humanoid PC's are puny things, unless they manage to reach very high levels.
You mean the good dragons are actually evil too? Well played dragons, well played indeed!
Except, you know, in Ravnica and Eberron. There are even some outliers in the Forgotten Realms.
I don't disagree with any of this. Arrogance is inherent to the nature of most dragons that are intelligent enough to have a personality (so I'm assuming you're just talking about the True Dragons, not the dragon creature type. I don't think Pseudodragons or Fairy Dragons are very arrogant).
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
I do not think that they always need to be evil. However, chromatic dragons are generally considered evil across the majority of the rules (a.k.a. monster manuals) throughout the different editions of D&D and premade adventures. Those rules and adventures are just written like that as a basic foundational outline that DM's can build on.
A dragon is a mighty beast, the pinnacle of creation, the ultimate predator. All other creatures are nothing more than bugs beneath a dragon's feet. Why would the alignment rules of bugs apply to a dragon?
Is a human evil for using bug spray? The flies probably think so.
A dragon could be lawful good to other dragons but not manifest the same behaviour to lesser creatures. Those creatures see the killing and destruction and use the term "evil"; the dragon however might use the terms "getting food" or "entertainment" or "pest control".
In other words, the word "evil" in the monster manual is not necessarily the creatures' alignment; it may just be an indication of how GMs should be playing the creatures when dealing with PCs.
Or you could decide that the simple answer (and the answer D&D has used for decades) is the right answer - all chromatic dragons are —s.
We also know who the parent of the Sorcerer is.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Yeah, like if only the alignment structure weren't also the axis of some of the eternal conflicts of the outer planes, and the flies of the material plane weren't somehow important or at least of value to those orchestrating the larger interplanar conflicts.
In all seriousness, I think I see what you're trying to say. Dragons for me in game are more forces of creation and destruction (hoarding is actually a practice that stems from a desire to appreciate or deprive/waste) which have equal weight in the law/chaos god/evil orienteering of the multiverse, but too fluid to really stay in one plane exclusively. Also the metallic/chromatic schism is "not all dragons" in my world too. There are stellar dragons for instance, and there are schisms in the Tiamat/Bahamut cycle that see something like salvation in such "greater dragons." They don't spend too much time in the proximity of mortal worlds, rather traveling the phlogiston or whatever the stuff is in my not quite spell jammer cosmology. These beings maintain stellar objects, at least the ones that are supposed to be there. Such a dragon's contact with a mortal world is usually an apocalyptic event. Other mortal worlds are literally built around them, their skies always changing.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Not necessarily true. They may be happily giving you a joyride. :)
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