I think if you approach it as a foregone conclusion, you could present any race as shallow or unnecessary.
For instance you say removing halflings from Dark Sun wouldn't make much of a difference. You could say that about pretty much every race in Dark Sun aside from maybe the few like Thri-kreen and Mul that come with the setting - and you could easily do a whole DS campaign without those too. That's because races don't do the heavy lifting in most campaign settings- rather their unique traits show how things have reacted to the setting. Taken in that vein, I think halflings are one of the more striking racial characterizations of DS.
Yes, any human can play the "content and reluctant to adventure" trope. But when humans can be anything, is a reluctant human adventurer really going against their nature or are they just embracing a different aspect of themselves? When you can be anything from the start, changing from one thing to another carries less dramatic weight. Adaptability and ambition are the most common descriptors of humans.
Yes, halflings are in D&D due to LotR. I would imagine if you argued in some LotR forum that hobbits are just short humans and have no other defining characteristics, you'd get schooled pretty hard. What they represented and what they accomplished (both in spite of and because of who they were) was central to the main themes of the book, and if you think Bilbo and Frodo could have just been human and the story would have been the same then you missed a lot of what Tolkein was saying. And that same significance can carry over to D&D.
It's cool if you're not feeling it. Everybody has races they're not fond of. I personally don't think tieflings bring anything to the table that a human or a warlock couldn't. But clearly that's my personal preference because lots of people love tieflings. Whatever floats your boat. At the very least, if you think they're bringing less to the table than a race that's literally just "big talking turtle" then you're lying to yourself at least a little bit.
I don't know about everyone else, but approaching D&D from an artist's perspective... visually, there are very few differences between Gnomes and Halflings... it's basically just the ears. Which, to be fair, is basically the difference between humans and elves.
But if, say... I was drawing a comic and I introduced both races, I could see my editor saying, "Hey, we can't really tell these two races apart, do we really need both of them?" I think that's why I generally prefer Halflings that, if nothing else, retain the bare furry feet from Hobbits. It's a simple visual that instantly distinguishes them in the same way that a Dwarf's beard is so iconic to the race, even though so many other races are perfectly capable of growing huge beards if the urge struck them. But Halflings aren't allowed to be Hobbits, so they have to avoid doing too much to directly tie them to Tolkien's original characters.
One of my favorite things about playing WOW was how the Gnomes were all techy and the halflings weren't. I also think that game was at least visually able to make them look different from each other. In fact I like the idea in general of the Gnomes living in vast underground cities kind of like Dwarves and while the Halflings have homes in the ground they are all farmers and craftspeople.
I don't know about everyone else, but approaching D&D from an artist's perspective... visually, there are very few differences between Gnomes and Halflings... it's basically just the ears. Which, to be fair, is basically the difference between humans and elves.
But if, say... I was drawing a comic and I introduced both races, I could see my editor saying, "Hey, we can't really tell these two races apart, do we really need both of them?" I think that's why I generally prefer Halflings that, if nothing else, retain the bare furry feet from Hobbits. It's a simple visual that instantly distinguishes them in the same way that a Dwarf's beard is so iconic to the race, even though so many other races are perfectly capable of growing huge beards if the urge struck them. But Halflings aren't allowed to be Hobbits, so they have to avoid doing too much to directly tie them to Tolkien's original characters.
D&D is more like writing a book than drawing a comic. It's less the physical characteristics and more the cultural characteristics that distinguish halflings and gnomes. It's much easier in a visual medium to rely on distinguishing physical characteristics, but it's just as easy in a verbal medium to characterize races with different customs.
One of my favorite things about playing WOW was how the Gnomes were all techy and the halflings weren't. I also think that game was at least visually able to make them look different from each other. In fact I like the idea in general of the Gnomes living in vast underground cities kind of like Dwarves and while the Halflings have homes in the ground they are all farmers and craftspeople.
Are there halflings in WoW? I'm pretty sure it's just gnomes and dwarves.
I don't know about everyone else, but approaching D&D from an artist's perspective... visually, there are very few differences between Gnomes and Halflings... it's basically just the ears. Which, to be fair, is basically the difference between humans and elves.
But if, say... I was drawing a comic and I introduced both races, I could see my editor saying, "Hey, we can't really tell these two races apart, do we really need both of them?" I think that's why I generally prefer Halflings that, if nothing else, retain the bare furry feet from Hobbits. It's a simple visual that instantly distinguishes them in the same way that a Dwarf's beard is so iconic to the race, even though so many other races are perfectly capable of growing huge beards if the urge struck them. But Halflings aren't allowed to be Hobbits, so they have to avoid doing too much to directly tie them to Tolkien's original characters.
D&D is more like writing a book than drawing a comic. It's less the physical characteristics and more the cultural characteristics that distinguish halflings and gnomes. It's much easier in a visual medium to rely on distinguishing physical characteristics, but it's just as easy in a verbal medium to characterize races with different customs.
I get what you mean, but at that point why not just make them two separate cultures of a single race? I suppose you could say that about any of the playable races... Dwarves are considered Medium Sized and grow to a height that would be perfectly reasonable for a human being. Aside from lifespan differences, you could basically just make Dwarves a type of human who happens to average shorter and give cultural significance to their beards.
I don't personally hate halflings and dont' really have a problem with them as a race in-game, but I feel like there's just a lot of missed potential with them compared to some of the other races. All the races are based on human culture as some sort of base... Dwarves are designed with a lot of nordic inspiration in their culture and design, but they still feel very distinct within D&D, both in the race's physical design and in their culture. If you find a weapon in a dungeon and your DM describes it as a "Dwarven Spear", even though spears aren't the stereotypical weapon associated with Dwarves, you can kind of picture what that would look like compared to if the DM said, "Elven Spear". Even if you hear "Gnomish Spear" you might get something in your head like including gears or other signs of tinkering. If your DM says, "You find a Halfling Spear", you basically just picture a normal spear but shorter.
Halflings are Hobbits that aren't allowed to be Hobbits. So the interesting details that distinguish them from being more than just short humans or less adventurous gnomes doesn't really get more than lip service in the game.
I get what you mean, but at that point why not just make them two separate cultures of a single race?
At that point, isn't the race just "small people?" I don't know, I see halflings as distinct from gnomes as humans are from elves. Culturally they are very different and combining them just due to their stature feels really reductive to me.
If you find a weapon in a dungeon and your DM describes it as a "Dwarven Spear", even though spears aren't the stereotypical weapon associated with Dwarves, you can kind of picture what that would look like compared to if the DM said, "Elven Spear". Even if you hear "Gnomish Spear" you might get something in your head like including gears or other signs of tinkering. If your DM says, "You find a Halfling Spear", you basically just picture a normal spear but shorter.
This isn't really fair for a couple reasons. First of all, dwarves, elves, and gnomes are all renowned for their craftsmanship. It's a deep part of dwarf and gnome culture, and we have a good sense of it with elves simply because they are good at everything. Secondly, halflings are decidedly non-warlike. They don't make spears, they have them thrust into their hands only when absolutely necessary.
But even then, I'm picturing a spear with a snack pouch, maybe a loop to hold a pipe, and a string on the end so that it can double as a fishing rod. Feels every bit as evocative to me as the others.
I get what you mean, but at that point why not just make them two separate cultures of a single race?
At that point, isn't the race just "small people?" I don't know, I see halflings as distinct from gnomes as humans are from elves. Culturally they are very different and combining them just due to their stature feels really reductive to me.
If you find a weapon in a dungeon and your DM describes it as a "Dwarven Spear", even though spears aren't the stereotypical weapon associated with Dwarves, you can kind of picture what that would look like compared to if the DM said, "Elven Spear". Even if you hear "Gnomish Spear" you might get something in your head like including gears or other signs of tinkering. If your DM says, "You find a Halfling Spear", you basically just picture a normal spear but shorter.
This isn't really fair for a couple reasons. First of all, dwarves, elves, and gnomes are all renowned for their craftsmanship. It's a deep part of dwarf and gnome culture, and we have a good sense of it with elves simply because they are good at everything. Secondly, halflings are decidedly non-warlike. They don't make spears, they have them thrust into their hands only when absolutely necessary.
But even then, I'm picturing a spear with a snack pouch, maybe a loop to hold a pipe, and a string on the end so that it can double as a fishing rod. Feels every bit as evocative to me as the others.
I have to admit, that spear description did a really good job of proving your point. I think the problem I've had is that the stuff I watch and people I play with don't really play with the unique aspects of Halfling culture. In a lot of stuff I've seen Gnomes and Halflings are both generally just played as "humans but shorter", which is partly why I conflate the two so much... the way a lot of people play them doesn't really focus on those unique aspects of the two. But I think if people actually focused on their unique features the same way they do with Dwarves it would do a lot to help them feel more distinct as their own unique culture.
I don't know about everyone else, but approaching D&D from an artist's perspective... visually, there are very few differences between Gnomes and Halflings... it's basically just the ears. Which, to be fair, is basically the difference between humans and elves.
But if, say... I was drawing a comic and I introduced both races, I could see my editor saying, "Hey, we can't really tell these two races apart, do we really need both of them?" I think that's why I generally prefer Halflings that, if nothing else, retain the bare furry feet from Hobbits. It's a simple visual that instantly distinguishes them in the same way that a Dwarf's beard is so iconic to the race, even though so many other races are perfectly capable of growing huge beards if the urge struck them. But Halflings aren't allowed to be Hobbits, so they have to avoid doing too much to directly tie them to Tolkien's original characters.
D&D is more like writing a book than drawing a comic. It's less the physical characteristics and more the cultural characteristics that distinguish halflings and gnomes. It's much easier in a visual medium to rely on distinguishing physical characteristics, but it's just as easy in a verbal medium to characterize races with different customs.
I get what you mean, but at that point why not just make them two separate cultures of a single race? I suppose you could say that about any of the playable races... Dwarves are considered Medium Sized and grow to a height that would be perfectly reasonable for a human being. Aside from lifespan differences, you could basically just make Dwarves a type of human who happens to average shorter and give cultural significance to their beards.
I don't personally hate halflings and dont' really have a problem with them as a race in-game, but I feel like there's just a lot of missed potential with them compared to some of the other races. All the races are based on human culture as some sort of base... Dwarves are designed with a lot of nordic inspiration in their culture and design, but they still feel very distinct within D&D, both in the race's physical design and in their culture. If you find a weapon in a dungeon and your DM describes it as a "Dwarven Spear", even though spears aren't the stereotypical weapon associated with Dwarves, you can kind of picture what that would look like compared to if the DM said, "Elven Spear". Even if you hear "Gnomish Spear" you might get something in your head like including gears or other signs of tinkering. If your DM says, "You find a Halfling Spear", you basically just picture a normal spear but shorter.
Halflings are Hobbits that aren't allowed to be Hobbits. So the interesting details that distinguish them from being more than just short humans or less adventurous gnomes doesn't really get more than lip service in the game.
A halfling spear is just a human spear, because halflings wouldn't make their own weapons for the most part. They have distinct non-martial culture. If I ask you to picture a halfling house, you can probably do that more easily than picturing a dwarven house.
Do they? What makes you say that?
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
I think if you approach it as a foregone conclusion, you could present any race as shallow or unnecessary.
For instance you say removing halflings from Dark Sun wouldn't make much of a difference. You could say that about pretty much every race in Dark Sun aside from maybe the few like Thri-kreen and Mul that come with the setting - and you could easily do a whole DS campaign without those too. That's because races don't do the heavy lifting in most campaign settings- rather their unique traits show how things have reacted to the setting. Taken in that vein, I think halflings are one of the more striking racial characterizations of DS.
Yes, any human can play the "content and reluctant to adventure" trope. But when humans can be anything, is a reluctant human adventurer really going against their nature or are they just embracing a different aspect of themselves? When you can be anything from the start, changing from one thing to another carries less dramatic weight. Adaptability and ambition are the most common descriptors of humans.
Yes, halflings are in D&D due to LotR. I would imagine if you argued in some LotR forum that hobbits are just short humans and have no other defining characteristics, you'd get schooled pretty hard. What they represented and what they accomplished (both in spite of and because of who they were) was central to the main themes of the book, and if you think Bilbo and Frodo could have just been human and the story would have been the same then you missed a lot of what Tolkein was saying. And that same significance can carry over to D&D.
It's cool if you're not feeling it. Everybody has races they're not fond of. I personally don't think tieflings bring anything to the table that a human or a warlock couldn't. But clearly that's my personal preference because lots of people love tieflings. Whatever floats your boat. At the very least, if you think they're bringing less to the table than a race that's literally just "big talking turtle" then you're lying to yourself at least a little bit.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
I don't know about everyone else, but approaching D&D from an artist's perspective... visually, there are very few differences between Gnomes and Halflings... it's basically just the ears. Which, to be fair, is basically the difference between humans and elves.
But if, say... I was drawing a comic and I introduced both races, I could see my editor saying, "Hey, we can't really tell these two races apart, do we really need both of them?" I think that's why I generally prefer Halflings that, if nothing else, retain the bare furry feet from Hobbits. It's a simple visual that instantly distinguishes them in the same way that a Dwarf's beard is so iconic to the race, even though so many other races are perfectly capable of growing huge beards if the urge struck them. But Halflings aren't allowed to be Hobbits, so they have to avoid doing too much to directly tie them to Tolkien's original characters.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
One of my favorite things about playing WOW was how the Gnomes were all techy and the halflings weren't. I also think that game was at least visually able to make them look different from each other. In fact I like the idea in general of the Gnomes living in vast underground cities kind of like Dwarves and while the Halflings have homes in the ground they are all farmers and craftspeople.
D&D is more like writing a book than drawing a comic. It's less the physical characteristics and more the cultural characteristics that distinguish halflings and gnomes. It's much easier in a visual medium to rely on distinguishing physical characteristics, but it's just as easy in a verbal medium to characterize races with different customs.
Are there halflings in WoW? I'm pretty sure it's just gnomes and dwarves.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
I get what you mean, but at that point why not just make them two separate cultures of a single race? I suppose you could say that about any of the playable races... Dwarves are considered Medium Sized and grow to a height that would be perfectly reasonable for a human being. Aside from lifespan differences, you could basically just make Dwarves a type of human who happens to average shorter and give cultural significance to their beards.
I don't personally hate halflings and dont' really have a problem with them as a race in-game, but I feel like there's just a lot of missed potential with them compared to some of the other races. All the races are based on human culture as some sort of base... Dwarves are designed with a lot of nordic inspiration in their culture and design, but they still feel very distinct within D&D, both in the race's physical design and in their culture. If you find a weapon in a dungeon and your DM describes it as a "Dwarven Spear", even though spears aren't the stereotypical weapon associated with Dwarves, you can kind of picture what that would look like compared to if the DM said, "Elven Spear". Even if you hear "Gnomish Spear" you might get something in your head like including gears or other signs of tinkering. If your DM says, "You find a Halfling Spear", you basically just picture a normal spear but shorter.
Halflings are Hobbits that aren't allowed to be Hobbits. So the interesting details that distinguish them from being more than just short humans or less adventurous gnomes doesn't really get more than lip service in the game.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
You are correct. I totally got confused. Maybe that's what I deserve for playing so many different games at the same time
No there are not. I got confused. I am just so used to the option as a playable race.
At that point, isn't the race just "small people?" I don't know, I see halflings as distinct from gnomes as humans are from elves. Culturally they are very different and combining them just due to their stature feels really reductive to me.
This isn't really fair for a couple reasons. First of all, dwarves, elves, and gnomes are all renowned for their craftsmanship. It's a deep part of dwarf and gnome culture, and we have a good sense of it with elves simply because they are good at everything. Secondly, halflings are decidedly non-warlike. They don't make spears, they have them thrust into their hands only when absolutely necessary.
But even then, I'm picturing a spear with a snack pouch, maybe a loop to hold a pipe, and a string on the end so that it can double as a fishing rod. Feels every bit as evocative to me as the others.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
I have to admit, that spear description did a really good job of proving your point. I think the problem I've had is that the stuff I watch and people I play with don't really play with the unique aspects of Halfling culture. In a lot of stuff I've seen Gnomes and Halflings are both generally just played as "humans but shorter", which is partly why I conflate the two so much... the way a lot of people play them doesn't really focus on those unique aspects of the two. But I think if people actually focused on their unique features the same way they do with Dwarves it would do a lot to help them feel more distinct as their own unique culture.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
A halfling spear is just a human spear, because halflings wouldn't make their own weapons for the most part. They have distinct non-martial culture. If I ask you to picture a halfling house, you can probably do that more easily than picturing a dwarven house.
Seems like you do have a lot of problem there loool