I have to wonder how much energy has been spent griping on these forums about floating ASIs...they made the system have more options. Therefore, your traditional +2 CON +1 WIS Hill Dwarves? They still freaking exist in canon. So do all the other traditional ASI versions of every race ever published in 5e. If you want to preserve those in your games, open an excel file, three columns (race, First ASI, second ASI) spend 5 minutes copying them down, and hand the printout to your players.
This just seems like the weirdest battle to be fighting...you don't have to change literally anything about how you play, but the thought of someone else being able to play differently is so offensive to you that multiple threads and posts have been made exclaiming the same opinions.
Seems like the other changes are primarily geared towards making some of the more rarely played races more playable. I'm sure some I'll be happy with, others I won't, but the floating ASI thing just seems like a trivial thing, especially when it still allows the old way in canon, just not explicitly.
I haven't seen anyone say that they want floating ASI's to be removed entirely. I'm most of use that object to the current way WotC is going would be gladly on the side of folks who love the floating ASI's if they still gave suggestions for Standard ASI's.
Did I say that? No, I talked about griping about floating ASIs...which you are, because they are now in place of "traditional" ASIs. The whole crux of my post was that you can still play with "traditional" ASIs with very little effort, so why are you so angry about it? Also, when Tasha's came out there were some folks in these forums (I'm thinking of one in particular with this next statement) who were so angry over it they refused to even type out the books name.
Or if they added standard but actually went through with their claim that tasha's was optional and add language like "If you have Tasha's Cauldron of Everything you can choose to use the options for customized ability score increases there instead of the ones granted here." Because what we want is still there in both situations and the others have official support for their floating ASI's. So everyone has their fill. This isn't "the thought of someone else being able to play differently is so offensive to you" as you so condescendingly suggest.
Just because something was optional in the past does not means it always has to be optional in the future. What you want is still there, its just not explicitly there. So in reality, you are upset because there's a missing couple of sentences in one section of a book that are present in another form in another. Its a waste of print space to support both just so you get to see your preferred numbers in print
And yeah, I was being condescending, and the reason I am is that its exactly this sort of ridiculous griping and grousing that drove me from the forums a few months ago in the first place. I'm just amazed that this issue is still blowing up the forums now.
The reason people don't like the floating ASI option in the first place is because it removes something that made races more distinct. In previous editions each race (aside from human and half-elf) not only had racial ability bonuses but also penalties to other abilities. So half-orc wizards or dwarven sorcerers would be at a disadvantage. Elves had a bonus to dexterity and a penalty to constitution to emphasize that they are agile and graceful at the cost of not being as physically tough as most other races. They already ditched the penalties, and now that flavor of some races being better at some things than others is being officially removed so that, on average, a dwarves are just as agile as elves and halflings are just as strong as goliaths. And gnomes are just as fast as creatures that have legs that are literally longer than they are tall. The argument is that unique flavor is being removed in favor of "options" that mean you can make a halfling that runs like an Olympic sprinter and can beat most goliaths in an arm wrestling match if somebody wants a character that can statistically lift roughly ten times their own body weight at level one (assuming it's not determined that encumbrance is another unnecessary option that should just be removed entirely). Add to that numerous races like genasi getting the "option" of what size they are and you begin to wonder how long (*cough*5.5*cough*) until we see something that explicitly says gnomes can range from two and a half to six and a half feet tall, just the same as goliaths.
And the difference between "errata" and "update" is nonexistent. Errata a subset of update by definition, one that changes previously official rules.
Yes, "the published rules are just guidelines and can be changed by the DM as they see fit." That has always been the case. What irritates me, and I suspect many others, is that it feels like WotC is moving away from "here are rules and lore that you can tweak as needed" to "Here are some vague concepts attached to words and you can make up your own rules for them. We aren't going to even suggest any specific and unique characteristics because we're giving you all sorts of options! That's content, folks, not just us being lazy writers!" Because if you ascribe to the "I don't need somebody else to tell me how to run my game" school of thought, then I ask why are you buying the books from them in the first place? Is it really hard to come up with a name for a fantasy race that you're just going to come up with rules and stats for on your own anyways that it's worth forty or fifty bucks to you? At the rate they're going they might as well just announce that the next revision/edition/whatever will just be a bunch of fantasy art books, and replace everybody responsible for creating lore with a single unpaid intern who goes through previous editions compiling names of races, items, spells, etc into a one big list as an appendix to mix and match with the pretty pictures.
All of the arguments you are making have been made before. Many, many times before. WotC has sales numbers that appear to show that the majority of the player base disagrees with you and those that don't want things to change. Your only option is, If you don't like it, don't buy it. You have the original PHB, Volo's and Mordy's to use. If you don't I recommend buying them, you will likely see used copies going up for sale before long.
I find the argument "WotC has sales numbers that appear to show that the majority of the player base disagrees with you " facetious. You do understand that WotC has this little cash cow called Magic the Gathering which is where Wizards of the Coast derives the vast portion of its sales figures? I go to my hobby shop and I see copies of candlekeep and strix sitting on the shelf, I ask the owner how are they selling and he says he sold a few but they aren't moving. You can look at online reviews from influences with 100K+ subscribers and I've seen them play ball with the post Mike Mearl's regime at WotC of Winninger I've seen nothing but the disorganization, poor plot design, lack of game play, lack of balance and just poor ideas coming through. I've quit buying 5E content from WotC, its just a poor investment now and youtubers are stating the problems everyone can see. I'm glad you are happy with it, but making assumed statements as fact isn't helping.
To the DM's who are running games, for us the problem is if these changes are going to be put in retroactively into D&D Beyond and we didn't buy it, its going to force us spending a lot of time recreating content to fix this mess. I didn't buy D&D Beyond to increase my time prep, its supposed to cut down on that.
This is the most blatant I've seen on WotC latest module from an influencer and I was shocked. I've only heard comments like /meh in passing for reviews, but this guy ain't kidding and is stating publicly what a lot of DM's are seeing. Generally youtubers appear to be afraid to bite the hand that feeds them, but that wall is breaking with the flood of detritus WotC has been releasing.
I haven't seen anyone say that they want floating ASI's to be removed entirely. I'm most of use that object to the current way WotC is going would be gladly on the side of folks who love the floating ASI's if they still gave suggestions for Standard ASI's. Or if they added standard but actually went through with their claim that tasha's was optional and add language like "If you have Tasha's Cauldron of Everything you can choose to use the options for customized ability score increases there instead of the ones granted here." Because what we want is still there in both situations and the others have official support for their floating ASI's. So everyone has their fill. This isn't "the thought of someone else being able to play differently is so offensive to you" as you so condescendingly suggest.
This.👆Exactly this.
I’m not POed because you’re getting floating ASIs. I’m POed because I’m losing Racial ASIs. Nobody’s saying anyone who wants floating ASIs shouldn’t be given the choice, as far as I was concerned you always had it, just not written in a book anywhere is all. Nobody says youse can’t/shouldn’t get yours, we’re complaining because they’re taking ours away to give it to you. Have your way, just leave us ours too is all.
I would not be opposed to 'suggested' scores, though I'd be a little hesitant on it as people already tend to take "suggestion" as "IRONCLAD RULE YOU MUST OBEY FOR ALL TIME OR THE DM WILL BREAK YOUR SPINE LIKE BANE", despite how ridiculous that seems to most of us. I do think 'suggested' scores should be cultural more than genetic, i.e. "the sylvan cultures of Faerunian elves celebrate grace, artistry, and the wisdom of accumulated years. Elven characters in Faerun tend to favor Dexterity, Wisdom, or Charisma, though your character can easily break the mold and favor any attributes that tell the story you'd like to tell."
I suppose my fear is that even that much would sound, to far too many people, like all elves MUST ALWAYS have strong scores in those three attributes and weak scores in everything else. It's the same old tired issue: "DMs, roll a d6 to find out how many of your players' character concepts are gonna be total shit you have to endure instead of Fine, Proper and Upstanding members of the Fellowship of the Ring."
You’re saying that those shouldn’t be optional rules to protect people from making what you consider the “wrong choice.” The old Racial ASIs should be excluded as optional rules… because some people might chose them instead of the floating ASIs if they are there as options. That’s your argument?!? You think they should be excluded to protect people from their own choices because you don’t feel they can be trusted to choose wisely for themselves. Are you sure that’s the one you wanna go with here? I mean really, really sure…?
I haven't seen anyone say that they want floating ASI's to be removed entirely. I'm most of use that object to the current way WotC is going would be gladly on the side of folks who love the floating ASI's if they still gave suggestions for Standard ASI's. Or if they added standard but actually went through with their claim that tasha's was optional and add language like "If you have Tasha's Cauldron of Everything you can choose to use the options for customized ability score increases there instead of the ones granted here." Because what we want is still there in both situations and the others have official support for their floating ASI's. So everyone has their fill. This isn't "the thought of someone else being able to play differently is so offensive to you" as you so condescendingly suggest.
This.👆Exactly this.
I’m not POed because you’re getting floating ASIs. I’m POed because I’m losing Racial ASIs. Nobody’s saying anyone who wants floating ASIs shouldn’t be given the choice, as far as I was concerned you always had it, just not written in a book anywhere is all. Nobody says youse can’t/shouldn’t get yours, we’re complaining because they’re taking ours away to give it to you. Have your way, just leave us ours too is all.
Are you? the "traditional" racial ASI combos are still valid with floating ASIs. They aren't taking yours away.
I would not be opposed to 'suggested' scores, though I'd be a little hesitant on it as people already tend to take "suggestion" as "IRONCLAD RULE YOU MUST OBEY FOR ALL TIME OR THE DM WILL BREAK YOUR SPINE LIKE BANE", despite how ridiculous that seems to most of us. I do think 'suggested' scores should be cultural more than genetic, i.e. "the sylvan cultures of Faerunian elves celebrate grace, artistry, and the wisdom of accumulated years. Elven characters in Faerun tend to favor Dexterity, Wisdom, or Charisma, though your character can easily break the mold and favor any attributes that tell the story you'd like to tell."
I suppose my fear is that even that much would sound, to far too many people, like all elves MUST ALWAYS have strong scores in those three attributes and weak scores in everything else. It's the same old tired issue: "DMs, roll a d6 to find out how many of your players' character concepts are gonna be total shit you have to endure instead of Fine, Proper and Upstanding members of the Fellowship of the Ring."
I mean all the current classes have a 'suggested' build. I've still yet to see anyone claim that should be compulsory to all builds of that class.
I'd quite like ASI's to function like the suggested class build. Just something which says 'a typical member of this species would often have x and y scores'. And then the Tasha's flecible scores would function as the default.
Sorry for such a late reply, I saw it in a Reddit thread summarising as for some reason I couldn't get onto the video. If I'm going off incorrect information (bearing in mind of course we're talking leaks for something not due until 2024(?)), I'm happy to have this corrected. ^^
EDIT: Quote, "No longer have limited speech. (Will still probably have mimicry but can also speak normally)," so there's a good chance it may be optional or changed in some way. But my point still stands, if it's no longer a requirement I'm interested in playing!
Zero is the most important number in D&D: Session Zero sets the boundaries and the tone; Rule Zero dictates the Dungeon Master (DM) is the final arbiter; and Zero D&D is better than Bad D&D.
"Let us speak plainly now, and in earnest, for words mean little without the weight of conviction."
I haven't seen anyone say that they want floating ASI's to be removed entirely. I'm most of use that object to the current way WotC is going would be gladly on the side of folks who love the floating ASI's if they still gave suggestions for Standard ASI's. Or if they added standard but actually went through with their claim that tasha's was optional and add language like "If you have Tasha's Cauldron of Everything you can choose to use the options for customized ability score increases there instead of the ones granted here." Because what we want is still there in both situations and the others have official support for their floating ASI's. So everyone has their fill. This isn't "the thought of someone else being able to play differently is so offensive to you" as you so condescendingly suggest.
This.👆Exactly this.
I’m not POed because you’re getting floating ASIs. I’m POed because I’m losing Racial ASIs. Nobody’s saying anyone who wants floating ASIs shouldn’t be given the choice, as far as I was concerned you always had it, just not written in a book anywhere is all. Nobody says youse can’t/shouldn’t get yours, we’re complaining because they’re taking ours away to give it to you. Have your way, just leave us ours too is all.
Are you? the "traditional" racial ASI combos are still valid with floating ASIs. They aren't taking yours away.
So thats the thing, they "kind of" are?
Look at D&D Beyond as an example. D&D Beyond presents all D&D content in its newest current iteration, typos and everything. Once this book releases to say that Air Genasi are the new way, the old way is gone. It CANNOT be created on D&D Beyond without homebrew. Period.
Wizards IS taking things away. They are. That's not an argument, it's a fact. New players who buy the new bundle will only know the new systems, and not the old systems.
Now, here's the thing though - This is the way its always been. Edition changes have always happened and always were met with criticism. We didn't even have improvable ASIs until 3rd edition without some sort of wish/dm fiat/edge class in 1st edition. It's not new to D&D, it's not new to tabletop, and it's not new to media. Retcons and changes ALWAYS happen. The beauty of D&D is that we have the ability to just do what we want and run the games how we want. If I want to run some screwed up FFXIV flavor of 5th, so be it. If I want to run a superhero version instead of playing Mutants and Masterminds, great.
I NEVER get the hate with this because at the end of the day, as far as old content is concerned? Cat's already out of the bag. It's out there, its available, and its locatable. It's NEVER gone.
I haven't seen anyone say that they want floating ASI's to be removed entirely. I'm most of use that object to the current way WotC is going would be gladly on the side of folks who love the floating ASI's if they still gave suggestions for Standard ASI's. Or if they added standard but actually went through with their claim that tasha's was optional and add language like "If you have Tasha's Cauldron of Everything you can choose to use the options for customized ability score increases there instead of the ones granted here." Because what we want is still there in both situations and the others have official support for their floating ASI's. So everyone has their fill. This isn't "the thought of someone else being able to play differently is so offensive to you" as you so condescendingly suggest.
This.👆Exactly this.
I’m not POed because you’re getting floating ASIs. I’m POed because I’m losing Racial ASIs. Nobody’s saying anyone who wants floating ASIs shouldn’t be given the choice, as far as I was concerned you always had it, just not written in a book anywhere is all. Nobody says youse can’t/shouldn’t get yours, we’re complaining because they’re taking ours away to give it to you. Have your way, just leave us ours too is all.
Are you? the "traditional" racial ASI combos are still valid with floating ASIs. They aren't taking yours away.
So thats the thing, they "kind of" are?
Look at D&D Beyond as an example. D&D Beyond presents all D&D content in its newest current iteration, typos and everything. Once this book releases to say that Air Genasi are the new way, the old way is gone. It CANNOT be created on D&D Beyond without homebrew. Period.
Wizards IS taking things away. They are. That's not an argument, it's a fact. New players who buy the new bundle will only know the new systems, and not the old systems.
Now, here's the thing though - This is the way its always been. Edition changes have always happened and always were met with criticism. We didn't even have improvable ASIs until 3rd edition without some sort of wish/dm fiat/edge class in 1st edition. It's not new to D&D, it's not new to tabletop, and it's not new to media. Retcons and changes ALWAYS happen. The beauty of D&D is that we have the ability to just do what we want and run the games how we want. If I want to run some screwed up FFXIV flavor of 5th, so be it. If I want to run a superhero version instead of playing Mutants and Masterminds, great.
I NEVER get the hate with this because at the end of the day, as far as old content is concerned? Cat's already out of the bag. It's out there, its available, and its locatable. It's NEVER gone.
What is new this is digital content and those changes you listed are from DIFFERENT EDITIONS not major changes to existing edition. What Winninger is doing its putting D&D 5.5E changes to 5E changes and those of us on Digital who don't want to deal with that detritus are being forced to use it. Or we have to spend a lot of time learning how to homebrew various features and then making sure the players know which class, spell to use etc. Its a bloody time sink and WotC is putting that crap on the players.
And let me give you a hint, these changes are not being done for "balance", these changes are being done to break the 5E system to get players to buy 5.5E. WotC releases a ton of splat books at the end of an edition to irk players to get them clamouring for a new system to "fix" all the bad. Well 5E is an evergreen system UNTIL WotC goes back and retcons broke features into the game, but this time its digital. Those of us playing online and using D&D Beyond to run our characters well we are hosed now.
I mean all the current classes have a 'suggested' build. I've still yet to see anyone claim that should be compulsory to all builds of that class.
I'd quite like ASI's to function like the suggested class build. Just something which says 'a typical member of this species would often have x and y scores'. And then the Tasha's flecible scores would function as the default.
Actually, quite a few DMs believe the 'Suggested Build' should be compulsory. They require the player to justify any attempt to break beyond the 'traditional' build for a given class and are often pretty hostile to any such attempts. At the end of the day, what those DMs are trying to do is browbeat players into playing the "right" characters without having to be the bad guy and outright say "if your race, class, and ability scores don't line up the way everybody expects them to I'm going to veto your character."
Now yes, that's a Bad DM problem. And as I was going to say to Sposta before Shitty Work Meeting intervened, the very first thing I said in that post of mine he last quoted was "I am not opposed to...". But what people have to remember is that an astonishingly, outrageously, depressingly huge portion of the D&D 5e playerbase - not us forum wonks, but the playerbase as a whole - treat the rules as ironclad gospel. They never homebrew, they never adjust the rules, they never fiddle with things to make it work better for their table. The Rules are the Rules, they're as immutable and unbending as a game of chess or Monopoly, because to these people that's just how games work. If you don't follow the rules, the game stops working and they don't have any fun. So yeah - for those folks, saying "Elves traditionally favor Dexterity and Wisdom in Faerun" is as good as saying "you are required, obligated, and compelled to put your points into Dexterity and Wisdom, and furthermore you must take a class that focuses on Dexterity, Wisdom, or ideally both". because that is what The Rules say, even if the writers of the rules have been trying to pound it into people's thick-ass skulls with a crowbar for eight years now that that's not how TTRPGs work.
I haven't seen anyone say that they want floating ASI's to be removed entirely. I'm most of use that object to the current way WotC is going would be gladly on the side of folks who love the floating ASI's if they still gave suggestions for Standard ASI's. Or if they added standard but actually went through with their claim that tasha's was optional and add language like "If you have Tasha's Cauldron of Everything you can choose to use the options for customized ability score increases there instead of the ones granted here." Because what we want is still there in both situations and the others have official support for their floating ASI's. So everyone has their fill. This isn't "the thought of someone else being able to play differently is so offensive to you" as you so condescendingly suggest.
This.👆Exactly this.
I’m not POed because you’re getting floating ASIs. I’m POed because I’m losing Racial ASIs. Nobody’s saying anyone who wants floating ASIs shouldn’t be given the choice, as far as I was concerned you always had it, just not written in a book anywhere is all. Nobody says youse can’t/shouldn’t get yours, we’re complaining because they’re taking ours away to give it to you. Have your way, just leave us ours too is all.
Are you? the "traditional" racial ASI combos are still valid with floating ASIs. They aren't taking yours away.
So thats the thing, they "kind of" are?
Look at D&D Beyond as an example. D&D Beyond presents all D&D content in its newest current iteration, typos and everything. Once this book releases to say that Air Genasi are the new way, the old way is gone. It CANNOT be created on D&D Beyond without homebrew. Period.
Wizards IS taking things away. They are. That's not an argument, it's a fact. New players who buy the new bundle will only know the new systems, and not the old systems.
Now, here's the thing though - This is the way its always been. Edition changes have always happened and always were met with criticism. We didn't even have improvable ASIs until 3rd edition without some sort of wish/dm fiat/edge class in 1st edition. It's not new to D&D, it's not new to tabletop, and it's not new to media. Retcons and changes ALWAYS happen. The beauty of D&D is that we have the ability to just do what we want and run the games how we want. If I want to run some screwed up FFXIV flavor of 5th, so be it. If I want to run a superhero version instead of playing Mutants and Masterminds, great.
I NEVER get the hate with this because at the end of the day, as far as old content is concerned? Cat's already out of the bag. It's out there, its available, and its locatable. It's NEVER gone.
What is new this is digital content and those changes you listed are from DIFFERENT EDITIONS not major changes to existing edition. What Winninger is doing its putting D&D 5.5E changes to 5E changes and those of us on Digital who don't want to deal with that detritus are being forced to use it. Or we have to spend a lot of time learning how to homebrew various features and then making sure the players know which class, spell to use etc. Its a bloody time sink and WotC is putting that crap on the players.
If I may, but WotC does not design the game for digital players...their product is a book. And unless they are going to break into all our houses and rewrite all our PHBs and MMs, etc...they haven't deleted anything from their standpoint. the content is still out there and still perfectly useable. Your complaint is based on the tool you use not being the same way, and if that is a problem, find a new tool.
And let me give you a hint, these changes are not being done for "balance", these changes are being done to break the 5E system to get players to buy 5.5E. WotC releases a ton of splat books at the end of an edition to irk players to get them clamouring for a new system to "fix" all the bad. Well 5E is an evergreen system UNTIL WotC goes back and retcons broke features into the game, but this time its digital. Those of us playing online and using D&D Beyond to run our characters well we are hosed now.
Thats faulty logic...this isn't like an iPhone where they can update the system and have it slow down to force you to buy a newer one. WotC can't change what has already been published, printed, and sold, and new material can't "break" old material. tools like DDB are separate companies and entities from WotC, so the problems you are having (which are with the tools) are not the fault of WotC, since they haven't "broken" anything.
I haven't seen anyone say that they want floating ASI's to be removed entirely. I'm most of use that object to the current way WotC is going would be gladly on the side of folks who love the floating ASI's if they still gave suggestions for Standard ASI's. Or if they added standard but actually went through with their claim that tasha's was optional and add language like "If you have Tasha's Cauldron of Everything you can choose to use the options for customized ability score increases there instead of the ones granted here." Because what we want is still there in both situations and the others have official support for their floating ASI's. So everyone has their fill. This isn't "the thought of someone else being able to play differently is so offensive to you" as you so condescendingly suggest.
This.👆Exactly this.
I’m not POed because you’re getting floating ASIs. I’m POed because I’m losing Racial ASIs. Nobody’s saying anyone who wants floating ASIs shouldn’t be given the choice, as far as I was concerned you always had it, just not written in a book anywhere is all. Nobody says youse can’t/shouldn’t get yours, we’re complaining because they’re taking ours away to give it to you. Have your way, just leave us ours too is all.
Are you? the "traditional" racial ASI combos are still valid with floating ASIs. They aren't taking yours away.
So thats the thing, they "kind of" are?
Look at D&D Beyond as an example. D&D Beyond presents all D&D content in its newest current iteration, typos and everything. Once this book releases to say that Air Genasi are the new way, the old way is gone. It CANNOT be created on D&D Beyond without homebrew. Period.
Wizards IS taking things away. They are. That's not an argument, it's a fact. New players who buy the new bundle will only know the new systems, and not the old systems.
Now, here's the thing though - This is the way its always been. Edition changes have always happened and always were met with criticism. We didn't even have improvable ASIs until 3rd edition without some sort of wish/dm fiat/edge class in 1st edition. It's not new to D&D, it's not new to tabletop, and it's not new to media. Retcons and changes ALWAYS happen. The beauty of D&D is that we have the ability to just do what we want and run the games how we want. If I want to run some screwed up FFXIV flavor of 5th, so be it. If I want to run a superhero version instead of playing Mutants and Masterminds, great.
I NEVER get the hate with this because at the end of the day, as far as old content is concerned? Cat's already out of the bag. It's out there, its available, and its locatable. It's NEVER gone.
What is new this is digital content and those changes you listed are from DIFFERENT EDITIONS not major changes to existing edition. What Winninger is doing its putting D&D 5.5E changes to 5E changes and those of us on Digital who don't want to deal with that detritus are being forced to use it. Or we have to spend a lot of time learning how to homebrew various features and then making sure the players know which class, spell to use etc. Its a bloody time sink and WotC is putting that crap on the players.
If I may, but WotC does not design the game for digital players...their product is a book. And unless they are going to break into all our houses and rewrite all our PHBs and MMs, etc...they haven't deleted anything from their standpoint. the content is still out there and still perfectly useable. Your complaint is based on the tool you use not being the same way, and if that is a problem, find a new tool.
And let me give you a hint, these changes are not being done for "balance", these changes are being done to break the 5E system to get players to buy 5.5E. WotC releases a ton of splat books at the end of an edition to irk players to get them clamouring for a new system to "fix" all the bad. Well 5E is an evergreen system UNTIL WotC goes back and retcons broke features into the game, but this time its digital. Those of us playing online and using D&D Beyond to run our characters well we are hosed now.
Thats faulty logic...this isn't like an iPhone where they can update the system and have it slow down to force you to buy a newer one. WotC can't change what has already been published, printed, and sold, and new material can't "break" old material. tools like DDB are separate companies and entities from WotC, so the problems you are having (which are with the tools) are not the fault of WotC, since they haven't "broken" anything.
WotC has negotiated all paid digital tools to update to match what they put out, there is NO place to go to play online without coding your own.
I haven't seen anyone say that they want floating ASI's to be removed entirely. I'm most of use that object to the current way WotC is going would be gladly on the side of folks who love the floating ASI's if they still gave suggestions for Standard ASI's. Or if they added standard but actually went through with their claim that tasha's was optional and add language like "If you have Tasha's Cauldron of Everything you can choose to use the options for customized ability score increases there instead of the ones granted here." Because what we want is still there in both situations and the others have official support for their floating ASI's. So everyone has their fill. This isn't "the thought of someone else being able to play differently is so offensive to you" as you so condescendingly suggest.
This.👆Exactly this.
I’m not POed because you’re getting floating ASIs. I’m POed because I’m losing Racial ASIs. Nobody’s saying anyone who wants floating ASIs shouldn’t be given the choice, as far as I was concerned you always had it, just not written in a book anywhere is all. Nobody says youse can’t/shouldn’t get yours, we’re complaining because they’re taking ours away to give it to you. Have your way, just leave us ours too is all.
Are you? the "traditional" racial ASI combos are still valid with floating ASIs. They aren't taking yours away.
Okay, where are the officially suggested Racial ASIs for the Fairy, Herengon, or Owlin from WotC? Can’t you find them either? They must be really lost then….
I haven't seen anyone say that they want floating ASI's to be removed entirely. I'm most of use that object to the current way WotC is going would be gladly on the side of folks who love the floating ASI's if they still gave suggestions for Standard ASI's. Or if they added standard but actually went through with their claim that tasha's was optional and add language like "If you have Tasha's Cauldron of Everything you can choose to use the options for customized ability score increases there instead of the ones granted here." Because what we want is still there in both situations and the others have official support for their floating ASI's. So everyone has their fill. This isn't "the thought of someone else being able to play differently is so offensive to you" as you so condescendingly suggest.
This.👆Exactly this.
I’m not POed because you’re getting floating ASIs. I’m POed because I’m losing Racial ASIs. Nobody’s saying anyone who wants floating ASIs shouldn’t be given the choice, as far as I was concerned you always had it, just not written in a book anywhere is all. Nobody says youse can’t/shouldn’t get yours, we’re complaining because they’re taking ours away to give it to you. Have your way, just leave us ours too is all.
Are you? the "traditional" racial ASI combos are still valid with floating ASIs. They aren't taking yours away.
So thats the thing, they "kind of" are?
Look at D&D Beyond as an example. D&D Beyond presents all D&D content in its newest current iteration, typos and everything. Once this book releases to say that Air Genasi are the new way, the old way is gone. It CANNOT be created on D&D Beyond without homebrew. Period.
Wizards IS taking things away. They are. That's not an argument, it's a fact. New players who buy the new bundle will only know the new systems, and not the old systems.
Now, here's the thing though - This is the way its always been. Edition changes have always happened and always were met with criticism. We didn't even have improvable ASIs until 3rd edition without some sort of wish/dm fiat/edge class in 1st edition. It's not new to D&D, it's not new to tabletop, and it's not new to media. Retcons and changes ALWAYS happen. The beauty of D&D is that we have the ability to just do what we want and run the games how we want. If I want to run some screwed up FFXIV flavor of 5th, so be it. If I want to run a superhero version instead of playing Mutants and Masterminds, great.
I NEVER get the hate with this because at the end of the day, as far as old content is concerned? Cat's already out of the bag. It's out there, its available, and its locatable. It's NEVER gone.
What is new this is digital content and those changes you listed are from DIFFERENT EDITIONS not major changes to existing edition. What Winninger is doing its putting D&D 5.5E changes to 5E changes and those of us on Digital who don't want to deal with that detritus are being forced to use it. Or we have to spend a lot of time learning how to homebrew various features and then making sure the players know which class, spell to use etc. Its a bloody time sink and WotC is putting that crap on the players.
If I may, but WotC does not design the game for digital players...their product is a book. And unless they are going to break into all our houses and rewrite all our PHBs and MMs, etc...they haven't deleted anything from their standpoint. the content is still out there and still perfectly useable. Your complaint is based on the tool you use not being the same way, and if that is a problem, find a new tool.
And let me give you a hint, these changes are not being done for "balance", these changes are being done to break the 5E system to get players to buy 5.5E. WotC releases a ton of splat books at the end of an edition to irk players to get them clamouring for a new system to "fix" all the bad. Well 5E is an evergreen system UNTIL WotC goes back and retcons broke features into the game, but this time its digital. Those of us playing online and using D&D Beyond to run our characters well we are hosed now.
Thats faulty logic...this isn't like an iPhone where they can update the system and have it slow down to force you to buy a newer one. WotC can't change what has already been published, printed, and sold, and new material can't "break" old material. tools like DDB are separate companies and entities from WotC, so the problems you are having (which are with the tools) are not the fault of WotC, since they haven't "broken" anything.
1. WotC contractually obligates DDB to have the most up to date version available. So whatever happens (good, bad, ugly, something else) is down to WotC. This isn't DDB's doing. It's WotC all the way.
2. Any content on DDB and released from now on will conform to the new way of doing things. Anyone who doesn't want to use the new ways of doing things...whatever that is...for any reason...is stuck using pre2022 5e. You could be unempathetic and say "so what?", but there's no pretending that this doesn't affect them.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I haven't seen anyone say that they want floating ASI's to be removed entirely. I'm most of use that object to the current way WotC is going would be gladly on the side of folks who love the floating ASI's if they still gave suggestions for Standard ASI's. Or if they added standard but actually went through with their claim that tasha's was optional and add language like "If you have Tasha's Cauldron of Everything you can choose to use the options for customized ability score increases there instead of the ones granted here." Because what we want is still there in both situations and the others have official support for their floating ASI's. So everyone has their fill. This isn't "the thought of someone else being able to play differently is so offensive to you" as you so condescendingly suggest.
This.👆Exactly this.
I’m not POed because you’re getting floating ASIs. I’m POed because I’m losing Racial ASIs. Nobody’s saying anyone who wants floating ASIs shouldn’t be given the choice, as far as I was concerned you always had it, just not written in a book anywhere is all. Nobody says youse can’t/shouldn’t get yours, we’re complaining because they’re taking ours away to give it to you. Have your way, just leave us ours too is all.
Are you? the "traditional" racial ASI combos are still valid with floating ASIs. They aren't taking yours away.
Okay, where are the officially suggested Racial ASIs for the Fairy, Herengon, or Owlin from WotC? Can’t you find them either? They must be really lost then….
Those races didn't exist prior to the change...so I'm not sure what your argument here is. If you are DM'ing and really want to have them, make them up...here, I'll do it
I haven't seen anyone say that they want floating ASI's to be removed entirely. I'm most of use that object to the current way WotC is going would be gladly on the side of folks who love the floating ASI's if they still gave suggestions for Standard ASI's. Or if they added standard but actually went through with their claim that tasha's was optional and add language like "If you have Tasha's Cauldron of Everything you can choose to use the options for customized ability score increases there instead of the ones granted here." Because what we want is still there in both situations and the others have official support for their floating ASI's. So everyone has their fill. This isn't "the thought of someone else being able to play differently is so offensive to you" as you so condescendingly suggest.
This.👆Exactly this.
I’m not POed because you’re getting floating ASIs. I’m POed because I’m losing Racial ASIs. Nobody’s saying anyone who wants floating ASIs shouldn’t be given the choice, as far as I was concerned you always had it, just not written in a book anywhere is all. Nobody says youse can’t/shouldn’t get yours, we’re complaining because they’re taking ours away to give it to you. Have your way, just leave us ours too is all.
Are you? the "traditional" racial ASI combos are still valid with floating ASIs. They aren't taking yours away.
So thats the thing, they "kind of" are?
Look at D&D Beyond as an example. D&D Beyond presents all D&D content in its newest current iteration, typos and everything. Once this book releases to say that Air Genasi are the new way, the old way is gone. It CANNOT be created on D&D Beyond without homebrew. Period.
Wizards IS taking things away. They are. That's not an argument, it's a fact. New players who buy the new bundle will only know the new systems, and not the old systems.
Now, here's the thing though - This is the way its always been. Edition changes have always happened and always were met with criticism. We didn't even have improvable ASIs until 3rd edition without some sort of wish/dm fiat/edge class in 1st edition. It's not new to D&D, it's not new to tabletop, and it's not new to media. Retcons and changes ALWAYS happen. The beauty of D&D is that we have the ability to just do what we want and run the games how we want. If I want to run some screwed up FFXIV flavor of 5th, so be it. If I want to run a superhero version instead of playing Mutants and Masterminds, great.
I NEVER get the hate with this because at the end of the day, as far as old content is concerned? Cat's already out of the bag. It's out there, its available, and its locatable. It's NEVER gone.
What is new this is digital content and those changes you listed are from DIFFERENT EDITIONS not major changes to existing edition. What Winninger is doing its putting D&D 5.5E changes to 5E changes and those of us on Digital who don't want to deal with that detritus are being forced to use it. Or we have to spend a lot of time learning how to homebrew various features and then making sure the players know which class, spell to use etc. Its a bloody time sink and WotC is putting that crap on the players.
If I may, but WotC does not design the game for digital players...their product is a book. And unless they are going to break into all our houses and rewrite all our PHBs and MMs, etc...they haven't deleted anything from their standpoint. the content is still out there and still perfectly useable. Your complaint is based on the tool you use not being the same way, and if that is a problem, find a new tool.
And let me give you a hint, these changes are not being done for "balance", these changes are being done to break the 5E system to get players to buy 5.5E. WotC releases a ton of splat books at the end of an edition to irk players to get them clamouring for a new system to "fix" all the bad. Well 5E is an evergreen system UNTIL WotC goes back and retcons broke features into the game, but this time its digital. Those of us playing online and using D&D Beyond to run our characters well we are hosed now.
Thats faulty logic...this isn't like an iPhone where they can update the system and have it slow down to force you to buy a newer one. WotC can't change what has already been published, printed, and sold, and new material can't "break" old material. tools like DDB are separate companies and entities from WotC, so the problems you are having (which are with the tools) are not the fault of WotC, since they haven't "broken" anything.
WotC has negotiated all paid digital tools to update to match what they put out, there is NO place to go to play online without coding your own.
I don't see how that is their problem though; they want an accurate product put out...sure, you need to put some work in, but you have the tools to do it (here on this website) and they aren't super hard to use (they certainly don't require you to know how to code). Most games wouldn't even come close to giving you that ability. At most, they've cost you a few hours of time, and if you feel that strongly about this, I don't see why you wouldn't be willing to spend that time.
Okay, where are the officially suggested Racial ASIs for the Fairy, Herengon, or Owlin from WotC? Can’t you find them either? They must be really lost then….
Fairies I would probably rule as +1DX, +1CHA, and +1 floating, honestly. They're inherently mutable as a species, as shown by the 'Fey Characteristics' table. Small species aren't allowed to have physical stats anywhere but Dex, but they also have a strong tendency towards Dex so go with that. I could see a case for WIS over CHA; in my brain CHA just fits for Feywild stuff but a lot of folk argue Wis is just as important in the Feywild, if not more so. Could go the old Triton route and do +1 each to DX/CHA/WIS, which I think would be fair for them.
Harengon have a STRONG focus on mobility and alacrity, +2 DX is a shoe-in for them. They're jumpy, they're twitchy, they're quick and nimble when they need to be, and they have innate bonuses to Dex saves already. The species screams "Dexy!". The last point is up for debate, though on the whole I think it's, once again, a toss-up between CHA and WIS. Their focus on luck and their nature as itinerant travelers suggests Wisdom, but their mischieviousness, gregariousness, and stated 'exuberance' suggests CHA. Harengon NPC enemies also tend to fold easily according to their lore, suggesting weak mental fortitude and susceptibility to Intimidation, so less inclined to WIS. I'd probably lean towards CHA if I had to take a stab at it, if primarily because harengon are already pretty heavily loaded and Wisdom is several times more valuable than Charisma.
Owlin? Heh, Enhance Ability literally calls it "Owl's Wisdom". +2 WIS is also extremely rare in player species, may as well work with it here. The secondary focus, once again, seems to be on Dex. Flying species almost universally have boosts to Dexterity, and the species-wide genetic proficiency in Stealth points to DX as well. You could make a case for a secondary point of INT, but I think the case is notably stronger for DX. So call owlin +2WIS, +1DX. Pretty open and shut.
Official from Wizards of the Coast? Nah. But not that difficult to puzzle out, either. Even with the more stripped-down lore presented for any given species of the three.
the "traditional" racial ASI combos are still valid with floating ASIs. They aren't taking yours away.
Even for those of us with all the (physical) books to look up How It Used To Be, WotC isn't presenting their new races with racial ASIs. That convenience is taken away. Whether fixing that represents minimal effort or a little more than that will likely depend on how the group receives said effort.
Actually, quite a few DMs believe the 'Suggested Build' should be compulsory. They require the player to justify any attempt to break beyond the 'traditional' build for a given class and are often pretty hostile to any such attempts. At the end of the day, what those DMs are trying to do is browbeat players into playing the "right" characters without having to be the bad guy and outright say "if your race, class, and ability scores don't line up the way everybody expects them to I'm going to veto your character."
Now yes, that's a Bad DM problem. And as I was going to say to Sposta before Shitty Work Meeting intervened, the very first thing I said in that post of mine he last quoted was "I am not opposed to...". But what people have to remember is that an astonishingly, outrageously, depressingly huge portion of the D&D 5e playerbase - not us forum wonks, but the playerbase as a whole - treat the rules as ironclad gospel. They never homebrew, they never adjust the rules, they never fiddle with things to make it work better for their table. The Rules are the Rules, they're as immutable and unbending as a game of chess or Monopoly, because to these people that's just how games work. If you don't follow the rules, the game stops working and they don't have any fun. So yeah - for those folks, saying "Elves traditionally favor Dexterity and Wisdom in Faerun" is as good as saying "you are required, obligated, and compelled to put your points into Dexterity and Wisdom, and furthermore you must take a class that focuses on Dexterity, Wisdom, or ideally both". because that is what The Rules say, even if the writers of the rules have been trying to pound it into people's thick-ass skulls with a crowbar for eight years now that that's not how TTRPGs work.
I'm not disputing that this is your experience, but it certainly isn't mine. Never has been, and certainly with today's glut of streams and youtube groups who pretty much all show homebrew content, who in the case of streamed games for the majority show at least some houseruling, and who in the case of general content creators focusing on D&D and other TTRPGs all discuss houserules at one point or another not in 5E.
The more depressing conclusion here is that, assuming this were true, there's always going to be significant groups who will be annoyed at this or that existing rule and even more annoyed at this or that change to an existing rule - and a lot of them apparently wouldn't be willing to do anything about it other than to suck it up and muddle through. You might prefer that WotC doesn't include suggested racial ASIs because that'd limit the use of floating ones (even if those were, you know, the actual rule those groups don't deviate from), but maybe next time WotC comes up with an idea you're a lot less enthusiastic about. Shouldn't the optimum approach be to change this whole paradigm?
WotC can't change what has already been published, printed, and sold, and new material can't "break" old material. tools like DDB are separate companies and entities from WotC, so the problems you are having (which are with the tools) are not the fault of WotC, since they haven't "broken" anything.
New material can't break old material? Right up until you get a new group where half the players use the original books they've always used and the other half uses the newer versions they've always (though probably for a shorter amount of time) used. Old content is still out there, but that doesn't mean everyone will attach the same value to it. Plus, you know, DDB is marketed as the "official digital toolset" for 5E. WotC allowed that in the licence. They chose to do that. I don't consider this a major issue. It's on par with houserules and homebrewing for me, which isn't problematic at all. But that's not really the same as it not having any impact at all, or WotC not having changed or deleted anything. They did make changes, and they make it very clear that the changed material, minus whatever gets removed, is from now on the official material.
the "traditional" racial ASI combos are still valid with floating ASIs. They aren't taking yours away.
Even for those of us with all the (physical) books to look up How It Used To Be, WotC isn't presenting their new races with racial ASIs. That convenience is taken away. Whether fixing that represents minimal effort or a little more than that will likely depend on how the group receives said effort.
I'm not entertaining that this much vitriol can be justified due to a lack of "convenience"
WotC can't change what has already been published, printed, and sold, and new material can't "break" old material. tools like DDB are separate companies and entities from WotC, so the problems you are having (which are with the tools) are not the fault of WotC, since they haven't "broken" anything.
New material can't break old material? Right up until you get a new group where half the players use the original books they've always used and the other half uses the newer versions they've always (though probably for a shorter amount of time) used. Old content is still out there, but that doesn't mean everyone will attach the same value to it. Plus, you know, DDB is marketed as the "official digital toolset" for 5E. WotC allowed that in the licence. They chose to do that. I don't consider this a major issue. It's on par with houserules and homebrewing for me, which isn't problematic at all. But that's not really the same as it not having any impact at all, or WotC not having changed or deleted anything. They did make changes, and they make it very clear that the changed material, minus whatever gets removed, is from now on the official material.
I'm not arguing that they haven't made any changes. I'm saying the reaction to the changes is entirely overblown. And because D&D is played in groups of 3-8, and not collectively with the whole of the playerbase, each group can decide which versions they want to use/not use in a session 0, just like every other of the hundreds if not thousands of decisions that collectively go into the start of a game
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Did I say that? No, I talked about griping about floating ASIs...which you are, because they are now in place of "traditional" ASIs. The whole crux of my post was that you can still play with "traditional" ASIs with very little effort, so why are you so angry about it? Also, when Tasha's came out there were some folks in these forums (I'm thinking of one in particular with this next statement) who were so angry over it they refused to even type out the books name.
Just because something was optional in the past does not means it always has to be optional in the future. What you want is still there, its just not explicitly there. So in reality, you are upset because there's a missing couple of sentences in one section of a book that are present in another form in another. Its a waste of print space to support both just so you get to see your preferred numbers in print
And yeah, I was being condescending, and the reason I am is that its exactly this sort of ridiculous griping and grousing that drove me from the forums a few months ago in the first place. I'm just amazed that this issue is still blowing up the forums now.
So here's a video that while not about the current debate, is still applicable. LINk
If I can't say something nice, I try to not say anything at all. So if I suddenly stop participating in a topic that's probably why.
I find the argument "WotC has sales numbers that appear to show that the majority of the player base disagrees with you " facetious. You do understand that WotC has this little cash cow called Magic the Gathering which is where Wizards of the Coast derives the vast portion of its sales figures? I go to my hobby shop and I see copies of candlekeep and strix sitting on the shelf, I ask the owner how are they selling and he says he sold a few but they aren't moving. You can look at online reviews from influences with 100K+ subscribers and I've seen them play ball with the post Mike Mearl's regime at WotC of Winninger I've seen nothing but the disorganization, poor plot design, lack of game play, lack of balance and just poor ideas coming through. I've quit buying 5E content from WotC, its just a poor investment now and youtubers are stating the problems everyone can see. I'm glad you are happy with it, but making assumed statements as fact isn't helping.
To the DM's who are running games, for us the problem is if these changes are going to be put in retroactively into D&D Beyond and we didn't buy it, its going to force us spending a lot of time recreating content to fix this mess. I didn't buy D&D Beyond to increase my time prep, its supposed to cut down on that.
This is the most blatant I've seen on WotC latest module from an influencer and I was shocked. I've only heard comments like /meh in passing for reviews, but this guy ain't kidding and is stating publicly what a lot of DM's are seeing. Generally youtubers appear to be afraid to bite the hand that feeds them, but that wall is breaking with the flood of detritus WotC has been releasing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMNxA3LzLrY
This.👆Exactly this.
I’m not POed because you’re getting floating ASIs. I’m POed because I’m losing Racial ASIs. Nobody’s saying anyone who wants floating ASIs shouldn’t be given the choice, as far as I was concerned you always had it, just not written in a book anywhere is all. Nobody says youse can’t/shouldn’t get yours, we’re complaining because they’re taking ours away to give it to you. Have your way, just leave us ours too is all.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
You’re saying that those shouldn’t be optional rules to protect people from making what you consider the “wrong choice.” The old Racial ASIs should be excluded as optional rules… because some people might chose them instead of the floating ASIs if they are there as options. That’s your argument?!? You think they should be excluded to protect people from their own choices because you don’t feel they can be trusted to choose wisely for themselves. Are you sure that’s the one you wanna go with here? I mean really, really sure…?
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Are you? the "traditional" racial ASI combos are still valid with floating ASIs. They aren't taking yours away.
I mean all the current classes have a 'suggested' build. I've still yet to see anyone claim that should be compulsory to all builds of that class.
I'd quite like ASI's to function like the suggested class build. Just something which says 'a typical member of this species would often have x and y scores'. And then the Tasha's flecible scores would function as the default.
Sorry for such a late reply, I saw it in a Reddit thread summarising as for some reason I couldn't get onto the video. If I'm going off incorrect information (bearing in mind of course we're talking leaks for something not due until 2024(?)), I'm happy to have this corrected. ^^
EDIT: Quote, "No longer have limited speech. (Will still probably have mimicry but can also speak normally)," so there's a good chance it may be optional or changed in some way. But my point still stands, if it's no longer a requirement I'm interested in playing!
Zero is the most important number in D&D: Session Zero sets the boundaries and the tone; Rule Zero dictates the Dungeon Master (DM) is the final arbiter; and Zero D&D is better than Bad D&D.
"Let us speak plainly now, and in earnest, for words mean little without the weight of conviction."
- The Assemblage of Houses, World of Warcraft
So thats the thing, they "kind of" are?
Look at D&D Beyond as an example. D&D Beyond presents all D&D content in its newest current iteration, typos and everything. Once this book releases to say that Air Genasi are the new way, the old way is gone. It CANNOT be created on D&D Beyond without homebrew. Period.
Wizards IS taking things away. They are. That's not an argument, it's a fact. New players who buy the new bundle will only know the new systems, and not the old systems.
Now, here's the thing though - This is the way its always been. Edition changes have always happened and always were met with criticism. We didn't even have improvable ASIs until 3rd edition without some sort of wish/dm fiat/edge class in 1st edition. It's not new to D&D, it's not new to tabletop, and it's not new to media. Retcons and changes ALWAYS happen. The beauty of D&D is that we have the ability to just do what we want and run the games how we want. If I want to run some screwed up FFXIV flavor of 5th, so be it. If I want to run a superhero version instead of playing Mutants and Masterminds, great.
I NEVER get the hate with this because at the end of the day, as far as old content is concerned? Cat's already out of the bag. It's out there, its available, and its locatable. It's NEVER gone.
What is new this is digital content and those changes you listed are from DIFFERENT EDITIONS not major changes to existing edition. What Winninger is doing its putting D&D 5.5E changes to 5E changes and those of us on Digital who don't want to deal with that detritus are being forced to use it. Or we have to spend a lot of time learning how to homebrew various features and then making sure the players know which class, spell to use etc. Its a bloody time sink and WotC is putting that crap on the players.
And let me give you a hint, these changes are not being done for "balance", these changes are being done to break the 5E system to get players to buy 5.5E. WotC releases a ton of splat books at the end of an edition to irk players to get them clamouring for a new system to "fix" all the bad. Well 5E is an evergreen system UNTIL WotC goes back and retcons broke features into the game, but this time its digital. Those of us playing online and using D&D Beyond to run our characters well we are hosed now.
Actually, quite a few DMs believe the 'Suggested Build' should be compulsory. They require the player to justify any attempt to break beyond the 'traditional' build for a given class and are often pretty hostile to any such attempts. At the end of the day, what those DMs are trying to do is browbeat players into playing the "right" characters without having to be the bad guy and outright say "if your race, class, and ability scores don't line up the way everybody expects them to I'm going to veto your character."
Now yes, that's a Bad DM problem. And as I was going to say to Sposta before Shitty Work Meeting intervened, the very first thing I said in that post of mine he last quoted was "I am not opposed to...". But what people have to remember is that an astonishingly, outrageously, depressingly huge portion of the D&D 5e playerbase - not us forum wonks, but the playerbase as a whole - treat the rules as ironclad gospel. They never homebrew, they never adjust the rules, they never fiddle with things to make it work better for their table. The Rules are the Rules, they're as immutable and unbending as a game of chess or Monopoly, because to these people that's just how games work. If you don't follow the rules, the game stops working and they don't have any fun. So yeah - for those folks, saying "Elves traditionally favor Dexterity and Wisdom in Faerun" is as good as saying "you are required, obligated, and compelled to put your points into Dexterity and Wisdom, and furthermore you must take a class that focuses on Dexterity, Wisdom, or ideally both". because that is what The Rules say, even if the writers of the rules have been trying to pound it into people's thick-ass skulls with a crowbar for eight years now that that's not how TTRPGs work.
Please do not contact or message me.
If I may, but WotC does not design the game for digital players...their product is a book. And unless they are going to break into all our houses and rewrite all our PHBs and MMs, etc...they haven't deleted anything from their standpoint. the content is still out there and still perfectly useable. Your complaint is based on the tool you use not being the same way, and if that is a problem, find a new tool.
Thats faulty logic...this isn't like an iPhone where they can update the system and have it slow down to force you to buy a newer one. WotC can't change what has already been published, printed, and sold, and new material can't "break" old material. tools like DDB are separate companies and entities from WotC, so the problems you are having (which are with the tools) are not the fault of WotC, since they haven't "broken" anything.
WotC has negotiated all paid digital tools to update to match what they put out, there is NO place to go to play online without coding your own.
Okay, where are the officially suggested Racial ASIs for the Fairy, Herengon, or Owlin from WotC? Can’t you find them either? They must be really lost then….
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
1. WotC contractually obligates DDB to have the most up to date version available. So whatever happens (good, bad, ugly, something else) is down to WotC. This isn't DDB's doing. It's WotC all the way.
2. Any content on DDB and released from now on will conform to the new way of doing things. Anyone who doesn't want to use the new ways of doing things...whatever that is...for any reason...is stuck using pre2022 5e. You could be unempathetic and say "so what?", but there's no pretending that this doesn't affect them.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Those races didn't exist prior to the change...so I'm not sure what your argument here is. If you are DM'ing and really want to have them, make them up...here, I'll do it
Fairy: CHA +2 WIS +1
Herengon: DEX +2 WIS +1
Owlin: WIS +2 DEX +1
That took....15 seconds (I timed it).
I don't see how that is their problem though; they want an accurate product put out...sure, you need to put some work in, but you have the tools to do it (here on this website) and they aren't super hard to use (they certainly don't require you to know how to code). Most games wouldn't even come close to giving you that ability. At most, they've cost you a few hours of time, and if you feel that strongly about this, I don't see why you wouldn't be willing to spend that time.
Fairies I would probably rule as +1DX, +1CHA, and +1 floating, honestly. They're inherently mutable as a species, as shown by the 'Fey Characteristics' table. Small species aren't allowed to have physical stats anywhere but Dex, but they also have a strong tendency towards Dex so go with that. I could see a case for WIS over CHA; in my brain CHA just fits for Feywild stuff but a lot of folk argue Wis is just as important in the Feywild, if not more so. Could go the old Triton route and do +1 each to DX/CHA/WIS, which I think would be fair for them.
Harengon have a STRONG focus on mobility and alacrity, +2 DX is a shoe-in for them. They're jumpy, they're twitchy, they're quick and nimble when they need to be, and they have innate bonuses to Dex saves already. The species screams "Dexy!". The last point is up for debate, though on the whole I think it's, once again, a toss-up between CHA and WIS. Their focus on luck and their nature as itinerant travelers suggests Wisdom, but their mischieviousness, gregariousness, and stated 'exuberance' suggests CHA. Harengon NPC enemies also tend to fold easily according to their lore, suggesting weak mental fortitude and susceptibility to Intimidation, so less inclined to WIS. I'd probably lean towards CHA if I had to take a stab at it, if primarily because harengon are already pretty heavily loaded and Wisdom is several times more valuable than Charisma.
Owlin? Heh, Enhance Ability literally calls it "Owl's Wisdom". +2 WIS is also extremely rare in player species, may as well work with it here. The secondary focus, once again, seems to be on Dex. Flying species almost universally have boosts to Dexterity, and the species-wide genetic proficiency in Stealth points to DX as well. You could make a case for a secondary point of INT, but I think the case is notably stronger for DX. So call owlin +2WIS, +1DX. Pretty open and shut.
Official from Wizards of the Coast? Nah. But not that difficult to puzzle out, either. Even with the more stripped-down lore presented for any given species of the three.
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Even for those of us with all the (physical) books to look up How It Used To Be, WotC isn't presenting their new races with racial ASIs. That convenience is taken away. Whether fixing that represents minimal effort or a little more than that will likely depend on how the group receives said effort.
I'm not disputing that this is your experience, but it certainly isn't mine. Never has been, and certainly with today's glut of streams and youtube groups who pretty much all show homebrew content, who in the case of streamed games for the majority show at least some houseruling, and who in the case of general content creators focusing on D&D and other TTRPGs all discuss houserules at one point or another not in 5E.
The more depressing conclusion here is that, assuming this were true, there's always going to be significant groups who will be annoyed at this or that existing rule and even more annoyed at this or that change to an existing rule - and a lot of them apparently wouldn't be willing to do anything about it other than to suck it up and muddle through. You might prefer that WotC doesn't include suggested racial ASIs because that'd limit the use of floating ones (even if those were, you know, the actual rule those groups don't deviate from), but maybe next time WotC comes up with an idea you're a lot less enthusiastic about. Shouldn't the optimum approach be to change this whole paradigm?
New material can't break old material? Right up until you get a new group where half the players use the original books they've always used and the other half uses the newer versions they've always (though probably for a shorter amount of time) used. Old content is still out there, but that doesn't mean everyone will attach the same value to it. Plus, you know, DDB is marketed as the "official digital toolset" for 5E. WotC allowed that in the licence. They chose to do that.
I don't consider this a major issue. It's on par with houserules and homebrewing for me, which isn't problematic at all. But that's not really the same as it not having any impact at all, or WotC not having changed or deleted anything. They did make changes, and they make it very clear that the changed material, minus whatever gets removed, is from now on the official material.
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I'm not entertaining that this much vitriol can be justified due to a lack of "convenience"
I'm not arguing that they haven't made any changes. I'm saying the reaction to the changes is entirely overblown. And because D&D is played in groups of 3-8, and not collectively with the whole of the playerbase, each group can decide which versions they want to use/not use in a session 0, just like every other of the hundreds if not thousands of decisions that collectively go into the start of a game