I feel like people generally ignore the DMG... so, what's out of there that your table uses?
Do you use firearms? The Oathbreaker and Grave Domain? Do you guys actually use the Epic Boons to get Truesight? Has anybody else ever come across the strength to size chart?
I use the dungeon generation stuff sometimes. Also the sparse rules for harsh environments like freezing cold, dangerous mold, high winds. The stats for siege weapons. Most of the magic items are pretty good.
The rest of it, I don't really like. A lot of clunky rules, rules that carry side effects I don't like, and rules that I just don't have any use for.
I use the dungeon generation stuff sometimes. Also the sparse rules for harsh environments like freezing cold, dangerous mold, high winds. The stats for siege weapons. Most of the magic items are pretty good.
The rest of it, I don't really like. A lot of clunky rules, rules that carry side effects I don't like, and rules that I just don't have any use for.
I love Siege Weapons... I just wish a trebuchet did more damag to a castle than a really strong guy with a sword.
I use the dungeon generation stuff sometimes. Also the sparse rules for harsh environments like freezing cold, dangerous mold, high winds. The stats for siege weapons. Most of the magic items are pretty good.
The rest of it, I don't really like. A lot of clunky rules, rules that carry side effects I don't like, and rules that I just don't have any use for.
I love Siege Weapons... I just wish a trebuchet did more damag to a castle than a really strong guy with a sword.
Easy solution for that: "You can't meaningfully damage a castle with a sword." They can swing, but the only thing that has a potential to break here is their weapon. (This is the secret solution to a lot of cheese in the game, btw.)
If you need mechanics for it, -- first of all, no you don't --, but just install a damage threshold. That's in the DMG too, though I think Ghosts of Saltmarsh was most people's introduction to it. Something like 20 or 25 ought to work.
I use the dungeon generation stuff sometimes. Also the sparse rules for harsh environments like freezing cold, dangerous mold, high winds. The stats for siege weapons. Most of the magic items are pretty good.
The rest of it, I don't really like. A lot of clunky rules, rules that carry side effects I don't like, and rules that I just don't have any use for.
I love Siege Weapons... I just wish a trebuchet did more damag to a castle than a really strong guy with a sword.
Easy solution for that: "You can't meaningfully damage a castle with a sword." They can swing, but the only thing that has a potential to break here is their weapon. (This is the secret solution to a lot of cheese in the game, btw.)
If you need mechanics for it, -- first of all, no you don't --, but just install a damage threshold. That's in the DMG too, though I think Ghosts of Saltmarsh was most people's introduction to it. Something like 20 or 25 ought to work.
I just amped up their damage.
A Level 20 Fighter with 20 strength can action surge for 8d6+40 damage... so 8d6 + 10d6 = 18d6 or 63 damage on average.
To keep the number of dice reasonable, I said that siege equipment deals XdY x4, and it's save or suck. This means the minimum damage is a lot higher, but you can dodge it... but castles and cottages can't dodge. So a Ballista deals 6d6 × 4. A mangonel is 8d6 × 4. A trebuchet is 10d6 × 4. A light cannon deals 6d8 × 4. A heavy cannon deals 8d12 × 4.
I love flanking, both groups I DM for are full of characters designed to be mostly ranged fighters and flanking thankfully encourages them to spec into melee options.
I like the Create a Monster section for teaching how to calculate CR, I've started calculating the players CR's for fun and it's nice to see their reaction to it increasing as they level up and get new magic items.
Madness, who doesn't love madness.
Poisons! One day I will find a Purple Worm to get me some of that sweet 2000gp poison.
Honestly if a level 20 fighter wants to murder a castle let em. The Casters are over there throwing meteors I don't think it's that ridiculous in comparison.
Honestly if a level 20 fighter wants to murder a castle let em. The Casters are over there throwing meteors I don't think it's that ridiculous in comparison.
To be clear, I'm also a supporter of not allowing people to use spells that only target creatures to target objects. Eldritch Blast can't destroy a treasure chest.
The disparity between casters and non-casters is a whole other problem, and I really don't think *this* is the solution for it. That's a different thread, though.
Honestly if a level 20 fighter wants to murder a castle let em. The Casters are over there throwing meteors I don't think it's that ridiculous in comparison.
The problem isn't the fighter beating up a castle. The problem is a strength 10 dude with some metal beating up a castle faster than a trebuchet.
Honestly if a level 20 fighter wants to murder a castle let em. The Casters are over there throwing meteors I don't think it's that ridiculous in comparison.
The problem isn't the fighter beating up a castle. The problem is a strength 10 dude with some metal beating up a castle faster than a trebuchet.
Well that's just simply not going to happen. A ballista deals an average of 16 damage, the lowest of the siege weapons. Trebuchet deals 44. But let's go with 16. Three guys operating one weapon is perfectly acceptable within the rules and within the narrative, so that's 16 damage per round, versus a maximum of 12 if your STR 10 dude rolls maximum damage on his greatsword, which I'm charitably giving him to stand in for "some metal."
What's weird is that the siege weapons don't have anything like the Siege Monster trait that says they deal double damage to objects. I don't think it's... Necessary, mathematically, but aesthetically it seems bizarre.
Honestly if a level 20 fighter wants to murder a castle let em. The Casters are over there throwing meteors I don't think it's that ridiculous in comparison.
The problem isn't the fighter beating up a castle. The problem is a strength 10 dude with some metal beating up a castle faster than a trebuchet.
Well that's just simply not going to happen. A ballista deals an average of 16 damage, the lowest of the siege weapons. Trebuchet deals 44. But let's go with 16. Three guys operating one weapon is perfectly acceptable within the rules and within the narrative, so that's 16 damage per round, versus a maximum of 12 if your STR 10 dude rolls maximum damage on his greatsword, which I'm charitably giving him to stand in for "some metal."
What's weird is that the siege weapons don't have anything like the Siege Monster trait that says they deal double damage to objects. I don't think it's... Necessary, mathematically, but aesthetically it seems bizarre.
So, what you're saying is that those three average, commoner stat, guys would be better off hitting the castle with their swords (for an average of 21 damage per round) than shooting a ballista at it? That doesn't strike you as odd?
Make them L20 Fighters and their bare fists will be enough to outstrip a ballista. At Str 0. Make them +5 Str, and their minimum damage outstrips the ballista. My rules are that they're immune to non siege damage.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I feel like people generally ignore the DMG... so, what's out of there that your table uses?
Do you use firearms? The Oathbreaker and Grave Domain? Do you guys actually use the Epic Boons to get Truesight? Has anybody else ever come across the strength to size chart?
I use magic items all the times in my campaigns .I use the monster creator advice whenever I create a monster. Also, whenever I am making an encounter, I use the "creating encounters" tools (which is also on DDB as the encounter builder).
I also use the flanking variant.
I don't usually use the creating NPC's or adventure stuff, but it is nice to have it.
I feel like people generally ignore the DMG... so, what's out of there that your table uses?
Do you use firearms? The Oathbreaker and Grave Domain? Do you guys actually use the Epic Boons to get Truesight? Has anybody else ever come across the strength to size chart?
I use the dungeon generation stuff sometimes. Also the sparse rules for harsh environments like freezing cold, dangerous mold, high winds. The stats for siege weapons. Most of the magic items are pretty good.
The rest of it, I don't really like. A lot of clunky rules, rules that carry side effects I don't like, and rules that I just don't have any use for.
I love Siege Weapons... I just wish a trebuchet did more damag to a castle than a really strong guy with a sword.
I am constantly referring to the DM’s Workshop section.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Easy solution for that: "You can't meaningfully damage a castle with a sword." They can swing, but the only thing that has a potential to break here is their weapon. (This is the secret solution to a lot of cheese in the game, btw.)
If you need mechanics for it, -- first of all, no you don't --, but just install a damage threshold. That's in the DMG too, though I think Ghosts of Saltmarsh was most people's introduction to it. Something like 20 or 25 ought to work.
I just amped up their damage.
A Level 20 Fighter with 20 strength can action surge for 8d6+40 damage... so 8d6 + 10d6 = 18d6 or 63 damage on average.
To keep the number of dice reasonable, I said that siege equipment deals XdY x4, and it's save or suck. This means the minimum damage is a lot higher, but you can dodge it... but castles and cottages can't dodge. So a Ballista deals 6d6 × 4. A mangonel is 8d6 × 4. A trebuchet is 10d6 × 4. A light cannon deals 6d8 × 4. A heavy cannon deals 8d12 × 4.
The thing I've seen used the most from the DMG would be flanking rules.
Birgit | Shifter | Sorcerer | Dragonlords
Shayone | Hobgoblin | Sorcerer | Netherdeep
I love flanking, both groups I DM for are full of characters designed to be mostly ranged fighters and flanking thankfully encourages them to spec into melee options.
I like the Create a Monster section for teaching how to calculate CR, I've started calculating the players CR's for fun and it's nice to see their reaction to it increasing as they level up and get new magic items.
Madness, who doesn't love madness.
Poisons! One day I will find a Purple Worm to get me some of that sweet 2000gp poison.
Okay, poisons and madness are awesome. Illness I find lacking, but poison and madness are bumpin'.
Poison is a fine use of money... If you don't sell magic items. But if you do, it's a miserable waste.
Honestly if a level 20 fighter wants to murder a castle let em. The Casters are over there throwing meteors I don't think it's that ridiculous in comparison.
To be clear, I'm also a supporter of not allowing people to use spells that only target creatures to target objects. Eldritch Blast can't destroy a treasure chest.
The disparity between casters and non-casters is a whole other problem, and I really don't think *this* is the solution for it. That's a different thread, though.
The problem isn't the fighter beating up a castle. The problem is a strength 10 dude with some metal beating up a castle faster than a trebuchet.
Well that's just simply not going to happen. A ballista deals an average of 16 damage, the lowest of the siege weapons. Trebuchet deals 44. But let's go with 16. Three guys operating one weapon is perfectly acceptable within the rules and within the narrative, so that's 16 damage per round, versus a maximum of 12 if your STR 10 dude rolls maximum damage on his greatsword, which I'm charitably giving him to stand in for "some metal."
What's weird is that the siege weapons don't have anything like the Siege Monster trait that says they deal double damage to objects. I don't think it's... Necessary, mathematically, but aesthetically it seems bizarre.
So, what you're saying is that those three average, commoner stat, guys would be better off hitting the castle with their swords (for an average of 21 damage per round) than shooting a ballista at it? That doesn't strike you as odd?
Make them L20 Fighters and their bare fists will be enough to outstrip a ballista. At Str 0. Make them +5 Str, and their minimum damage outstrips the ballista. My rules are that they're immune to non siege damage.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Can we like not do this here, the topic of siege weapons and the realism of martial characters is it's own discussion and deserves it's own thread.
I'd also like to apologise to Erokow32 for dragging the discussion off track.
To be fair, I think it's my fault, but I'm 100% happy to start a new thread for figuring out how much damage siege weapons should do.
I use magic items all the times in my campaigns .I use the monster creator advice whenever I create a monster. Also, whenever I am making an encounter, I use the "creating encounters" tools (which is also on DDB as the encounter builder).
I also use the flanking variant.
I don't usually use the creating NPC's or adventure stuff, but it is nice to have it.
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