I mentioned bards being able to do that, in the bards being able top wizards at invulnerability spell, because of swords post. And from what I've read on forums, a lot of people don't think sorcerers have the capabilities of a wizard, even though they have better dpr and damage control. I mean, wizards have a tone more spells, but still.
Also I don't think I can misunderstand destructive wrath, it just maximized the damage for a use of your channel divinity on lightning or thunder damage.
Then the reaction tempest gets is way better than most reactions you can take, unless you plan a held spell action real well.
I don't have a copy of the PHB, but I've seen the spell list, its long. But not all of the spells are going to be used. When theres so much quantity, it can't all be top notch quality. While I love flavoring things over actual usefulness, a lot of the spells could just not be taken in exchange for something else, or as you've brought up again, bards can just take them. I think wizards are great, but people really undermine the sorcerer compared to a wizard, and a few other spell casters at that. I mean, clerics can literally have god come and do them a favor.
agree with most of this, i too will say that the sorcerer might be unfairly underrated, and that the reaction tempest clerics get is really strong, but you are really underselling the wizard spell list, especially 1st, 2nd and 3rd level. for the most part, in the 30 or so spells you will find in an spell level, there are maybe two, perhaps even three spells you might call bad, and what differs the wizard from most non divine spellcasters is their abillity to prepare spells, wich means that an single wizard might have acess to twice or even thrice as many spells as another arcane spellcaster of his or her level.
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Traditionally, I tend to lean paladin to this answer. Sure, the primary magic users might get all the flashy spells, but you're not bad at magic. Sure, there are some classes who can out-damage you, but you can still hit pretty hard. And sure, some classes may tank damage better, but you're front-line irregardless. A good paladin is all things to all people. Tank, healer, the Protector and Face of the party. Still, mixing it up in the next campaign, playing a Warforged Artificer. No idea what to expect, but going to have a blast at it. :)
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"I am a machine, built to make more machines, so that those machines would go and fight your wars for you against the ultimate evil. I was not made by some heavenly deity ruling on high, but by a man's hands, with man's tools, and a man's will.I know that man's name, and I know that man's fate. I do not worship him, for he sought no worship from his creation, only that I follow his will.And thus you and I fulfil our respective duties to those who made us." -Constructor Tertius (Warforged)
hey, consider alchemist for an fancy high-ac build with your potion making, or go for battle smith and create an bipedal steel defender so you can be an warforged who is keeping up the good work of canith.
Also, preparing sanctuary, equiping a shield and just spamming the doge action is an strat any cleric, paladin or artificer can try, have never done it but can recomend
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
It's funny you should mention that, Artifice, I'm playing a Warforged Artificer who used to make other Warforged for Cannith, and once I get to level 3, I will be going Battle Smith. I already have a pet construct, a mechanical German Shepherd as a companion called X9, who will become my SD. Sanctuary was totally my first call for spell, but because I gained a firearm, my DM told me I would not also be getting a free shield. Will be looking into it when I get the opportunity.
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"I am a machine, built to make more machines, so that those machines would go and fight your wars for you against the ultimate evil. I was not made by some heavenly deity ruling on high, but by a man's hands, with man's tools, and a man's will.I know that man's name, and I know that man's fate. I do not worship him, for he sought no worship from his creation, only that I follow his will.And thus you and I fulfil our respective duties to those who made us." -Constructor Tertius (Warforged)
well its only 10gp so it will not take long before you can afford one, just keep in mind that you are unable to use that gun of yours without ending sanctuary, so you should only use that spell for when you want to deliberatly draw fire towards you as some kind of distraction.
also you are an warforged, with experience making other warforged, and your steel defender is not the general size and shape as an warforged? did your character like burn out on the general humanoid shape and decide to try something diffrent, is he actively trying to distance himself to the war and his role in it, or do you simply think that this particular companion of his is more important to his backstory than what he happened to be doing during the war? or is your reason some sort of mix of the above?
also, since X9 will exist before you reach 3rd level, how will his or her stats be represented before then? will you use another stat block, like the wolf?
also your profile picture kind of looks exactly like the bat lego brick lego used to use, but now i see it is a cat
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
X9 is the 9th unsanctioned experiment Constructor has made. I'm thinking it became something of a hobby after seeing actual dogs for the first time. Humans have flesh and blood dogs as companions and work assistants, why not some kind of mechanical variation? This hobby was humoured by the maker Constructor was working under during the war, and since then his lack of a master and/or companion has resulted in the creation of X9 as "something to chat to, or distract himself with". Perhaps it is the loneliness of being away from the forge that he continues this hobby to remind him of what was his home. This is great, btw, I thank you for this round of thought-kicking. As for the stat block, that will probably be a DM call, whether he does anything or not, or is there purely for set dressing until lvl 3.
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"I am a machine, built to make more machines, so that those machines would go and fight your wars for you against the ultimate evil. I was not made by some heavenly deity ruling on high, but by a man's hands, with man's tools, and a man's will.I know that man's name, and I know that man's fate. I do not worship him, for he sought no worship from his creation, only that I follow his will.And thus you and I fulfil our respective duties to those who made us." -Constructor Tertius (Warforged)
Interesting question but in the end a completely pointless one since it kind of depends on external, non-class factors. Still, it's damn fun to speculate. :)
Anywho, the fun thing about 5E is that you can do so much simply by mixing up the old race-class-background combinations and get completely different characters. Hell, even by simply choosing different Feats and ASIs the same RCB combo can be very different from another. That said, I'm going to give this a try with the following approach. 1. I'm going to assume standard point array, simply because any class can be awesome if you roll well enough and there are too many variable with point buy. 2. Unless specified, I'm going to ignore races and backgrounds. Simply too many variables. Also, no magic items. 3. Since strength is level dependent, assume level 20. Sure, some classes shine at earlier levels and some at later levels. Again, this goes back to 5E being a game were variable change a lot. 4. Since the premise for this was both combat and RP I'm going to have to divide this into four categories. This is just because any class can be good in any scenario, depending on what skills, race and background you pick. Those categories are warrior (hitting things until the go splut and how good they are at not going splut themselves), rogue-like (sneaking, exploring, stealing, that kind of stuff), arcane caster (throwing fireballs and fireball-equivalents at people, also utility spells) and divine caster (kicking ass for the lord!, no, seriously, basically what the arcane caster does but with divine magic). Some classes might fit into more than one of those categories but I'm just going to present the "best" one. Maybe a runner up if I'm feeling bored. :) Here goes!
Best warrior. In my mind, the warrior that will has to power to go on pretty much forever and face off against most foes is the Zealot barbarian. They're almost literally unkillable when raging at higher level and the concept itself lends for some excellent opportunities for roleplaying and social interaction. A runner-up would probably be Sun Soul monk due to sheer mobility and the ability to pew-pew lasers for those ranged attacks.
Best rogue-like. Is the rogue, perhaps not surprisingly enough, is the rogue (huzzah for expertise). I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the inquisitive rogue takes the top spot. Sure, they might not have the raw damage output of an assassin or the sneakiness of an Arcane Trickster's invisible mage hand but the ability to detect lies, illusions and weaknesses makes you really versatile. The almost guarenteed advantage on perception and investigation is another perk. Arcane Trickster is a clear runner up. All the shennanigans that one can do with magic is just really, really good.
Best arcane caster. Lore bard. No need to really say anything. But I'll do so anyway. They have access to a huge library of spells, better hit die than wizards and even without spells slots they have a bunch of features that are really usefull. Like expertise and Jack of All Trades. My runner up will be the divination wizard. Because portent is fun and greater portent is even more fun.
Best divine caster: Moon druid. You want to fight? Go elemental (literally). You want to explore? Giant eagle, sneaky snake or tiny weasel. You can pretend to be a stray cat or the wizard's familiar. Turn into a giant monkey and wear a fez and you can make money grinding an organ (the music instrument you naughty bastard!). Anything is possible if you're a moon druid! Runner up? Cleric. All of them are good. My favourites are knowledge and war.
There you have it. A completely pointless and quite arbitrary list of the "best" classes. Hope you enjoyed it. Cheers! B)
i agree that lore bard is arguably the best arcane caster, but you did not even give an honorable mention to bards as rouge likes, even when they are arguably in some areas an much better rouge, and paladins can be arguably better warriors than barbarians, totem barbarians are the absolute best barbarians by far due to the diversity of good traits and the flexibillity in those traits
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
My first ever character was a hermit ranger that lived in the woods [creative I know]. I went three sessions in a row without hitting a single target. So their patron goddess suggested helping them turn into a druid. I then went on to dominate every fight, and dealt more than half of all damage done to the big bad [in a group of 5 characters].
So... I'd go with druid. Summoning a seemingly [but not literally] unless amount of fey animals to fight by your side is, A+ material.
Fun fact, that character never once ended up using wild shape. So ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
i agree that lore bard is arguably the best arcane caster, but you did not even give an honorable mention to bards as rouge likes, even when they are arguably in some areas an much better rouge, and paladins can be arguably better warriors than barbarians, totem barbarians are the absolute best barbarians by far due to the diversity of good traits and the flexibillity in those traits
No, I did not. But I did mention that these kinds of posts are, fun as they might be, pointless and stupid since there are too many factors that contribute and that there is really no way of deciding what makes the "best" class.
You are welcome to make your own arguments, of course. :)
Because Charisma is so important for Social interactions, those classes that use that as there magic base can readily become the forefront of a campaign, holding their own in combat and than also dominating the social interactions--Paladin, Sorcerer, and Warlock.
A slight flaw in the rules and would say is the most unbalancing---however it's an RPG not a wargame.
Don't forget at level 6 they can summon like 8 creatures to fight with them, and if you choose giant poisonous snakes they do up to 300 damage to a creatue. Druids are one of the strongest
Don't forget at level 6 they can summon like 8 creatures to fight with them, and if you choose giant poisonous snakes they do up to 300 damage to a creatue. Druids are one of the strongest
MsSplosion Where did you get the idea that giant poisonous snakes can deal 300 damage?
well clearly its an hyperbole, but 1d4 + 4 plus 3d6 poison plus the main attack has an decent attack bonus compared to other low CR monsters, but the con save is pretty easy to pass
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Like others have said that's a complex question. I think spellcasters in an "endgame" scenario are the most powerful, but put a wizard in a tiny room with a barbarian and see who walks out.
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i could not agree more on everything you just said sir
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
agree with most of this, i too will say that the sorcerer might be unfairly underrated, and that the reaction tempest clerics get is really strong, but you are really underselling the wizard spell list, especially 1st, 2nd and 3rd level. for the most part, in the 30 or so spells you will find in an spell level, there are maybe two, perhaps even three spells you might call bad, and what differs the wizard from most non divine spellcasters is their abillity to prepare spells, wich means that an single wizard might have acess to twice or even thrice as many spells as another arcane spellcaster of his or her level.
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Traditionally, I tend to lean paladin to this answer. Sure, the primary magic users might get all the flashy spells, but you're not bad at magic. Sure, there are some classes who can out-damage you, but you can still hit pretty hard. And sure, some classes may tank damage better, but you're front-line irregardless.
A good paladin is all things to all people. Tank, healer, the Protector and Face of the party.
Still, mixing it up in the next campaign, playing a Warforged Artificer. No idea what to expect, but going to have a blast at it. :)
"I am a machine, built to make more machines, so that those machines would go and fight your wars for you against the ultimate evil. I was not made by some heavenly deity ruling on high, but by a man's hands, with man's tools, and a man's will.I know that man's name, and I know that man's fate. I do not worship him, for he sought no worship from his creation, only that I follow his will.And thus you and I fulfil our respective duties to those who made us."
-Constructor Tertius (Warforged)
hey, consider alchemist for an fancy high-ac build with your potion making, or go for battle smith and create an bipedal steel defender so you can be an warforged who is keeping up the good work of canith.
Also, preparing sanctuary, equiping a shield and just spamming the doge action is an strat any cleric, paladin or artificer can try, have never done it but can recomend
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
It's funny you should mention that, Artifice, I'm playing a Warforged Artificer who used to make other Warforged for Cannith, and once I get to level 3, I will be going Battle Smith. I already have a pet construct, a mechanical German Shepherd as a companion called X9, who will become my SD. Sanctuary was totally my first call for spell, but because I gained a firearm, my DM told me I would not also be getting a free shield. Will be looking into it when I get the opportunity.
"I am a machine, built to make more machines, so that those machines would go and fight your wars for you against the ultimate evil. I was not made by some heavenly deity ruling on high, but by a man's hands, with man's tools, and a man's will.I know that man's name, and I know that man's fate. I do not worship him, for he sought no worship from his creation, only that I follow his will.And thus you and I fulfil our respective duties to those who made us."
-Constructor Tertius (Warforged)
well its only 10gp so it will not take long before you can afford one, just keep in mind that you are unable to use that gun of yours without ending sanctuary, so you should only use that spell for when you want to deliberatly draw fire towards you as some kind of distraction.
also you are an warforged, with experience making other warforged, and your steel defender is not the general size and shape as an warforged? did your character like burn out on the general humanoid shape and decide to try something diffrent, is he actively trying to distance himself to the war and his role in it, or do you simply think that this particular companion of his is more important to his backstory than what he happened to be doing during the war? or is your reason some sort of mix of the above?
also, since X9 will exist before you reach 3rd level, how will his or her stats be represented before then? will you use another stat block, like the wolf?
also your profile picture kind of looks exactly like the bat lego brick lego used to use, but now i see it is a cat
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
X9 is the 9th unsanctioned experiment Constructor has made. I'm thinking it became something of a hobby after seeing actual dogs for the first time. Humans have flesh and blood dogs as companions and work assistants, why not some kind of mechanical variation? This hobby was humoured by the maker Constructor was working under during the war, and since then his lack of a master and/or companion has resulted in the creation of X9 as "something to chat to, or distract himself with". Perhaps it is the loneliness of being away from the forge that he continues this hobby to remind him of what was his home.
This is great, btw, I thank you for this round of thought-kicking.
As for the stat block, that will probably be a DM call, whether he does anything or not, or is there purely for set dressing until lvl 3.
"I am a machine, built to make more machines, so that those machines would go and fight your wars for you against the ultimate evil. I was not made by some heavenly deity ruling on high, but by a man's hands, with man's tools, and a man's will.I know that man's name, and I know that man's fate. I do not worship him, for he sought no worship from his creation, only that I follow his will.And thus you and I fulfil our respective duties to those who made us."
-Constructor Tertius (Warforged)
RAGE RAAAAA RAGE RAAAA
BARBARIAN!!!!!!!!
jack l p
Ranger sucks. Druid is good because HP pool is helpful. Warlocks can be built SUPER OP.
Mystic
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Interesting question but in the end a completely pointless one since it kind of depends on external, non-class factors. Still, it's damn fun to speculate. :)
Anywho, the fun thing about 5E is that you can do so much simply by mixing up the old race-class-background combinations and get completely different characters. Hell, even by simply choosing different Feats and ASIs the same RCB combo can be very different from another. That said, I'm going to give this a try with the following approach.
1. I'm going to assume standard point array, simply because any class can be awesome if you roll well enough and there are too many variable with point buy.
2. Unless specified, I'm going to ignore races and backgrounds. Simply too many variables. Also, no magic items.
3. Since strength is level dependent, assume level 20. Sure, some classes shine at earlier levels and some at later levels. Again, this goes back to 5E being a game were variable change a lot.
4. Since the premise for this was both combat and RP I'm going to have to divide this into four categories. This is just because any class can be good in any scenario, depending on what skills, race and background you pick. Those categories are warrior (hitting things until the go splut and how good they are at not going splut themselves), rogue-like (sneaking, exploring, stealing, that kind of stuff), arcane caster (throwing fireballs and fireball-equivalents at people, also utility spells) and divine caster (kicking ass for the lord!, no, seriously, basically what the arcane caster does but with divine magic). Some classes might fit into more than one of those categories but I'm just going to present the "best" one. Maybe a runner up if I'm feeling bored. :)
Here goes!
Best warrior.
In my mind, the warrior that will has to power to go on pretty much forever and face off against most foes is the Zealot barbarian. They're almost literally unkillable when raging at higher level and the concept itself lends for some excellent opportunities for roleplaying and social interaction.
A runner-up would probably be Sun Soul monk due to sheer mobility and the ability to pew-pew lasers for those ranged attacks.
Best rogue-like.
Is the rogue, perhaps not surprisingly enough, is the rogue (huzzah for expertise). I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the inquisitive rogue takes the top spot. Sure, they might not have the raw damage output of an assassin or the sneakiness of an Arcane Trickster's invisible mage hand but the ability to detect lies, illusions and weaknesses makes you really versatile. The almost guarenteed advantage on perception and investigation is another perk.
Arcane Trickster is a clear runner up. All the shennanigans that one can do with magic is just really, really good.
Best arcane caster.
Lore bard. No need to really say anything. But I'll do so anyway. They have access to a huge library of spells, better hit die than wizards and even without spells slots they have a bunch of features that are really usefull. Like expertise and Jack of All Trades.
My runner up will be the divination wizard. Because portent is fun and greater portent is even more fun.
Best divine caster:
Moon druid. You want to fight? Go elemental (literally). You want to explore? Giant eagle, sneaky snake or tiny weasel. You can pretend to be a stray cat or the wizard's familiar. Turn into a giant monkey and wear a fez and you can make money grinding an organ (the music instrument you naughty bastard!). Anything is possible if you're a moon druid!
Runner up? Cleric. All of them are good. My favourites are knowledge and war.
There you have it. A completely pointless and quite arbitrary list of the "best" classes. Hope you enjoyed it. Cheers! B)
i agree that lore bard is arguably the best arcane caster, but you did not even give an honorable mention to bards as rouge likes, even when they are arguably in some areas an much better rouge, and paladins can be arguably better warriors than barbarians, totem barbarians are the absolute best barbarians by far due to the diversity of good traits and the flexibillity in those traits
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
My first ever character was a hermit ranger that lived in the woods [creative I know]. I went three sessions in a row without hitting a single target. So their patron goddess suggested helping them turn into a druid. I then went on to dominate every fight, and dealt more than half of all damage done to the big bad [in a group of 5 characters].
So... I'd go with druid. Summoning a seemingly [but not literally] unless amount of fey animals to fight by your side is, A+ material.
Fun fact, that character never once ended up using wild shape. So ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
No, I did not. But I did mention that these kinds of posts are, fun as they might be, pointless and stupid since there are too many factors that contribute and that there is really no way of deciding what makes the "best" class.
You are welcome to make your own arguments, of course. :)
Because Charisma is so important for Social interactions, those classes that use that as there magic base can readily become the forefront of a campaign, holding their own in combat and than also dominating the social interactions--Paladin, Sorcerer, and Warlock.
A slight flaw in the rules and would say is the most unbalancing---however it's an RPG not a wargame.
div/ evok wizards are pretty overpowerd ngl
Don't forget at level 6 they can summon like 8 creatures to fight with them, and if you choose giant poisonous snakes they do up to 300 damage to a creatue. Druids are one of the strongest
MsSplosion Where did you get the idea that giant poisonous snakes can deal 300 damage?
Hi there! I'm a Christian musician based in Canada :)
well clearly its an hyperbole, but 1d4 + 4 plus 3d6 poison plus the main attack has an decent attack bonus compared to other low CR monsters, but the con save is pretty easy to pass
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Like others have said that's a complex question. I think spellcasters in an "endgame" scenario are the most powerful, but put a wizard in a tiny room with a barbarian and see who walks out.