Or just let the change happen and call it however you want at your table. There's no Wizard lawyer sitting at the table with a Ruler of Teaching +1 to smack your palms when you say "race" instead of "species" if that's what you prefer to use. (Personally, I'll just keep saying "race" all the same to me)
I was about to type a whole bunch of stuff explaining how saying that humans are all the same race is nice and all, but it ignores all of history and how racism is and was being used, but ... I'm just tired. I feel like I'm having to justify my own existence.
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Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
I was about to type a whole bunch of stuff explaining how saying that humans are all the same race is nice and all, but it ignores all of history and how racism is and was being used, but ... I'm just tired. I feel like I'm having to justify my own existence.
If it helps, some people already understand this.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I really like D&D, especially Ravenloft, Exandria and the Upside Down from Stranger Things. My pronouns are she/they (genderfae).
Or just let the change happen and call it however you want at your table. There's no Wizard lawyer sitting at the table with a Ruler of Teaching +1 to smack your palms when you say "race" instead of "species" if that's what you prefer to use. (Personally, I'll just keep saying "race" all the same to me)
Thats fine if it works for your table, but it kind of ignores the entire point of changing the word.
Or just let the change happen and call it however you want at your table. There's no Wizard lawyer sitting at the table with a Ruler of Teaching +1 to smack your palms when you say "race" instead of "species" if that's what you prefer to use. (Personally, I'll just keep saying "race" all the same to me)
Thats fine if it works for your table, but it kind of ignores the entire point of changing the word.
WOTC doesn't (nor should they) have the power to police what people do at their tables. Best they can do is change wording, what people do with it after isn't on WOTC.
Or just let the change happen and call it however you want at your table. There's no Wizard lawyer sitting at the table with a Ruler of Teaching +1 to smack your palms when you say "race" instead of "species" if that's what you prefer to use. (Personally, I'll just keep saying "race" all the same to me)
Thats fine if it works for your table, but it kind of ignores the entire point of changing the word.
WOTC doesn't (nor should they) have the power to police what people do at their tables. Best they can do is change wording, what people do with it after isn't on WOTC.
I should comment, sure I'm not thrilled with the word Species, as it pulls up the wrong setting vibes for a fantasy TTRPG, I could go in depth as to why I dislike it, and I have in my replay on the official feedback survey. That said, the use of "Race" is and has always been Racist. And WoTC want's to remove that stain from it's new material. And good IMO. It will also help separate toxic games easy because in a few years the more toxic players and DMs will insist on using Race, while the rest of us move on.
The Moderators multiple times on these threads have stated Race is gone, the real question is what word is going to be used to replace it. Me I vote Ancestry, as it feels more natural.
to the people trying to bring their toxic sentiment and dictate what a corporation can and can not do with it's IP make your opinion know on the survey, otherwise just leave, because your argument has already lost. And if you dislike it, use older editions and go away with your other toxic players who refuse to adapt.
Since I assume you are not planning on reading the 23 pages of the thread explaining why this is not an option, here is the Spark Notes version: Wizards is allowed to do what they like with their intellectual property, an they have determined they do not want to keep the word "race" in the game. They have made that determination in acknowledgment of the fact that the game was founded by racists--specifically Gary and Ernest Gygax among others--and those people put their unacceptable racial politics into the game. The word "race" as applied to D&D has been tainted by Gygax's racism--to move away from the game's historical racism, they want a word that gives them a fresh start, free from racist baggage.
And that is why it makes sense for D&D to abandon the word "race"--it is a perfectly reasoned and measured approach to their own acknowledged problematic history.
I should comment, sure I'm not thrilled with the word Species, as it pulls up the wrong setting vibes for a fantasy TTRPG, I could go in depth as to why I dislike it, and I have in my replay on the official feedback survey. That said, the use of "Race" is and has always been Racist. And WoTC want's to remove that stain from it's new material. And good IMO. It will also help separate toxic games easy because in a few years the more toxic players and DMs will insist on using Race, while the rest of us move on.
The Moderators multiple times on these threads have stated Race is gone, the real question is what word is going to be used to replace it. Me I vote Ancestry, as it feels more natural.
to the people trying to bring their toxic sentiment and dictate what a corporation can and can not do with it's IP make your opinion know on the survey, otherwise just leave, because your argument has already lost. And if you dislike it, use older editions and go away with your other toxic players who refuse to adapt.
I tend to favor species for two reasons.
First, it's specific enough that it's obvious what it means from just the word alone. Lineage and ancestry are more broad and could refer to more specific things like a noble or royal lineage or a specific culture within a species etc.
The word species itself has also been around for centuries, and sure you may have a peasant asking someone 'what species are you?' when meeting a Genasi for the first time, but we don't tend to use words like 'class' or 'spell slot' or 'proficiency' etc. So it's hardly alone in that regard.
So, just to throw this out there, how about instead of removing a word people find problematic and replacing it with a word that other people may find problematic, we just try to create a system that uses "creature" and enables a bit more freedom and variety, what follows is a rough draft of an idea:
Character Creation: The ABC Method.
A is for: Ability Scores and Appearance.
B is for: Backstory.
C is for: Class.
***
Ability Scores: Ability Scores represent the various strengths and weaknesses of your character and how good or bad they may be at various skills or task. The scores for each ability are generated by either (enter info about dice rolling, point buy and standard array).
Appearance: What does your character look like? Give a brief description of what they look physically look like. Do they look like one of the established creatures in the D&D settings (such as an Human, Elf or Dwarf) or something else? Your characters appearance should reflect the ability scores you generated but this description is is otherwise purely cosmetic.
***
Backstory: what did your character do before they took up adventuring? Your backsotry gives access to various skills, talents or abilities and can be as complex or simple as you wish but should include a reason why you have taken up the adventuring lifestyle as well as their name and please work with your DM to make sure it is acceptable as there maybe story or plot hooks they wish to use or you may need to tweak you backstory to fit in with something they already have planned.
To flesh out and illustrate the abilities and sundry talents you have gained from this backstory choose one option from the list titled “Background” and one from the list titled “Upbringing”.
Background are as per those available in the current PHB and other books.
Upbringing are the abilities the current books list as Racial Traits (the only listing for Human would be the Variant version) but these traits now represent some innate abilities, skills or talents you have gained whilst growing up and the backstory should go some way to explain this.
Example entries on the Upbringing list:
Draconic influence: Gain traits associated with Dragonborn.
Expert: Gain traits associated with Human (Variant version).
Fey Influence: Gain traits associated with High Elf.
***
Class: A “Class” is the adventuring role you character has chosen but does not have to be something linked to your backstory. When you select your characters class you also receive 3 bonus points to add to your ability scores, this means you choose to increase one ability score by +3 or choose to increase one ability score by +2 and another by +1 or you can increase three different ability scores by +1. These bonus points represent training your received just prior to adventuring and taking up the mantle of the chosen class.
***
Using this method you can still create a character that is faithful to the current or previous books but you also have the freedom to create something different, interesting or just plain wacky. Monster Manuals would still have generic stat blocks for ease of reference and implementation but it just means characters can be a bit more interesting. We’ve then tied ability score bonuses to a choice of character class rather than anything built into a specific type of creature so we're not saying one creature is better in some regard than another.
Some examples could be:
A Dragonborn descended from a Dragon Turtle and has Tortle traits.
A Human grew up near a rift to the Feywild and now has Eladrin traits.
A Teifling that has always been lucky and has the "luck of the devil" and has Halfling traits.
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* Need a character idea? Search for "Rob76's Unused" in the Story and Lore section.
To me, we are all part of the human race. Elves are a race. Dwarves are a race, etc.
Within those races are, perhaps, distinct species with physiological differences.
Also within races are distinct cultures, and within those cultures are sub-cultures.
In the real world I have always felt that describing other humans as a separate race is far too divisive. Yes, there are some physiological differences but they are minor.
In DnD however, I see Dragonkin as a separate race to that of Human.
If you really must change the word race in an effort to combat what some see as oppressive language then can we not invent our own word that has no real-world meaning or basis on anything that can be even vaguely perceived to have other meanings? Maybe just use 'Beings', e.g. Human Beings. Dwarven Beings. I dunno, maybe cabbages would work? Human Cabbages.
There are over 20 pages of conversation for you to read, if you so care to. Doing so may grant you insight into the topics your questions concern.
I've read a load of it and though I don't support the shift toward controlling language I will tolerate it. I've posed it as a question but perhaps I should rephrase it to throwing my hat in with supporting making up a word to define 'race'.
There's a difference between controlling language and changing a harmful word. If I started assuming everyone used he/him pronouns, for instance, and then someone asked me to use they/them, that wouldn't be "controlling language"; it would be common decency.
I'm just against others trying to control me by controlling speech. "race" is NOT a racist term....and neither were the founders of D&D.
Maybe you would like to read the 23+ pages of comments explaining how it isn't "controlling speech" and how "race" is, in fact, a racist term, hm? Thus far you haven't provided to the conversation, instead you've simply repeated the same thing.
"Just play the game" now means accepting the word change.
(Also, this entire thread is about accepting that "race" is gone, and discussing whether "species" is the right new word. The game will not use "race" going forward, period.)
I'm just against others trying to control me by controlling speech. "race" is NOT a racist term....and neither were the founders of D&D.
1. Yes, the founders of D&D were racist. Gary Gygax’s depictions of other cultures we’re unacceptable even in the 70s. He used real world stereotypes to demean other cultures. He quoted people who committed genocide to justify hate in his own game. He was outspoken about his belief biological determinism - the modern version of racial eugenics. His son, Ernest, also a D&D founder (Tenser is an anagram of Ernest), is currently being sued by Wizards for stealing Wizards intellectual property and adding racist elements (ex. Ernest’s version literally says som races are worse than others, and notes that the black race will always be low intelligence - it is full of bigotry like that). Beyond them, early modules were simply full of extremely problematic depictions of other races, indicating systemic racism within D&D even beyond the outspoken racism of the Gygaxs.
2. The only people trying to control speech are those who are demanding Wizards keep with Race. D&D is Wizards’ property, and what words they choose to use is an expression of their speech. Telling them not to change a word is trying to control how they exercise speech; them changing the word is just them exercising their speech and property rights.
Not really. Species is a far more accurate word for this sort of classification.
Or just let the change happen and call it however you want at your table. There's no Wizard lawyer sitting at the table with a Ruler of Teaching +1 to smack your palms when you say "race" instead of "species" if that's what you prefer to use. (Personally, I'll just keep saying "race" all the same to me)
I was about to type a whole bunch of stuff explaining how saying that humans are all the same race is nice and all, but it ignores all of history and how racism is and was being used, but ... I'm just tired. I feel like I'm having to justify my own existence.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
If it helps, some people already understand this.
I really like D&D, especially Ravenloft, Exandria and the Upside Down from Stranger Things. My pronouns are she/they (genderfae).
Thats fine if it works for your table, but it kind of ignores the entire point of changing the word.
[REDACTED]
WOTC doesn't (nor should they) have the power to police what people do at their tables. Best they can do is change wording, what people do with it after isn't on WOTC.
Read the comment again, mate.
[REDACTED]
I should comment, sure I'm not thrilled with the word Species, as it pulls up the wrong setting vibes for a fantasy TTRPG, I could go in depth as to why I dislike it, and I have in my replay on the official feedback survey. That said, the use of "Race" is and has always been Racist. And WoTC want's to remove that stain from it's new material. And good IMO. It will also help separate toxic games easy because in a few years the more toxic players and DMs will insist on using Race, while the rest of us move on.
The Moderators multiple times on these threads have stated Race is gone, the real question is what word is going to be used to replace it. Me I vote Ancestry, as it feels more natural.
to the people trying to bring their toxic sentiment and dictate what a corporation can and can not do with it's IP make your opinion know on the survey, otherwise just leave, because your argument has already lost. And if you dislike it, use older editions and go away with your other toxic players who refuse to adapt.
nope....stay with race, class, level, etc....
There's 23 pages as to why this is a bad thing to do
Since I assume you are not planning on reading the 23 pages of the thread explaining why this is not an option, here is the Spark Notes version: Wizards is allowed to do what they like with their intellectual property, an they have determined they do not want to keep the word "race" in the game. They have made that determination in acknowledgment of the fact that the game was founded by racists--specifically Gary and Ernest Gygax among others--and those people put their unacceptable racial politics into the game. The word "race" as applied to D&D has been tainted by Gygax's racism--to move away from the game's historical racism, they want a word that gives them a fresh start, free from racist baggage.
And that is why it makes sense for D&D to abandon the word "race"--it is a perfectly reasoned and measured approach to their own acknowledged problematic history.
I tend to favor species for two reasons.
First, it's specific enough that it's obvious what it means from just the word alone. Lineage and ancestry are more broad and could refer to more specific things like a noble or royal lineage or a specific culture within a species etc.
The word species itself has also been around for centuries, and sure you may have a peasant asking someone 'what species are you?' when meeting a Genasi for the first time, but we don't tend to use words like 'class' or 'spell slot' or 'proficiency' etc. So it's hardly alone in that regard.
So, just to throw this out there, how about instead of removing a word people find problematic and replacing it with a word that other people may find problematic, we just try to create a system that uses "creature" and enables a bit more freedom and variety, what follows is a rough draft of an idea:
Character Creation: The ABC Method.
A is for: Ability Scores and Appearance.
B is for: Backstory.
C is for: Class.
***
Ability Scores: Ability Scores represent the various strengths and weaknesses of your character and how good or bad they may be at various skills or task. The scores for each ability are generated by either (enter info about dice rolling, point buy and standard array).
Appearance: What does your character look like? Give a brief description of what they look physically look like. Do they look like one of the established creatures in the D&D settings (such as an Human, Elf or Dwarf) or something else? Your characters appearance should reflect the ability scores you generated but this description is is otherwise purely cosmetic.
***
Backstory: what did your character do before they took up adventuring? Your backsotry gives access to various skills, talents or abilities and can be as complex or simple as you wish but should include a reason why you have taken up the adventuring lifestyle as well as their name and please work with your DM to make sure it is acceptable as there maybe story or plot hooks they wish to use or you may need to tweak you backstory to fit in with something they already have planned.
To flesh out and illustrate the abilities and sundry talents you have gained from this backstory choose one option from the list titled “Background” and one from the list titled “Upbringing”.
Background are as per those available in the current PHB and other books.
Upbringing are the abilities the current books list as Racial Traits (the only listing for Human would be the Variant version) but these traits now represent some innate abilities, skills or talents you have gained whilst growing up and the backstory should go some way to explain this.
Example entries on the Upbringing list:
Draconic influence: Gain traits associated with Dragonborn.
Expert: Gain traits associated with Human (Variant version).
Fey Influence: Gain traits associated with High Elf.
***
Class: A “Class” is the adventuring role you character has chosen but does not have to be something linked to your backstory. When you select your characters class you also receive 3 bonus points to add to your ability scores, this means you choose to increase one ability score by +3 or choose to increase one ability score by +2 and another by +1 or you can increase three different ability scores by +1. These bonus points represent training your received just prior to adventuring and taking up the mantle of the chosen class.
***
Using this method you can still create a character that is faithful to the current or previous books but you also have the freedom to create something different, interesting or just plain wacky. Monster Manuals would still have generic stat blocks for ease of reference and implementation but it just means characters can be a bit more interesting. We’ve then tied ability score bonuses to a choice of character class rather than anything built into a specific type of creature so we're not saying one creature is better in some regard than another.
Some examples could be:
A Dragonborn descended from a Dragon Turtle and has Tortle traits.
A Human grew up near a rift to the Feywild and now has Eladrin traits.
A Teifling that has always been lucky and has the "luck of the devil" and has Halfling traits.
then let's do the XYZ method!
X=Xenotype
Y=You what?
Z=......
umm....
my plan fails before it every even got off the ground
There's a difference between controlling language and changing a harmful word. If I started assuming everyone used he/him pronouns, for instance, and then someone asked me to use they/them, that wouldn't be "controlling language"; it would be common decency.
[REDACTED]
Perhaps you'd care to read one of the many, many comments explaining why not to continue using harmful language?
[REDACTED]
Maybe you would like to read the 23+ pages of comments explaining how it isn't "controlling speech" and how "race" is, in fact, a racist term, hm? Thus far you haven't provided to the conversation, instead you've simply repeated the same thing.
[REDACTED]
"Just play the game" now means accepting the word change.
(Also, this entire thread is about accepting that "race" is gone, and discussing whether "species" is the right new word. The game will not use "race" going forward, period.)
1. Yes, the founders of D&D were racist. Gary Gygax’s depictions of other cultures we’re unacceptable even in the 70s. He used real world stereotypes to demean other cultures. He quoted people who committed genocide to justify hate in his own game. He was outspoken about his belief biological determinism - the modern version of racial eugenics. His son, Ernest, also a D&D founder (Tenser is an anagram of Ernest), is currently being sued by Wizards for stealing Wizards intellectual property and adding racist elements (ex. Ernest’s version literally says som races are worse than others, and notes that the black race will always be low intelligence - it is full of bigotry like that). Beyond them, early modules were simply full of extremely problematic depictions of other races, indicating systemic racism within D&D even beyond the outspoken racism of the Gygaxs.
2. The only people trying to control speech are those who are demanding Wizards keep with Race. D&D is Wizards’ property, and what words they choose to use is an expression of their speech. Telling them not to change a word is trying to control how they exercise speech; them changing the word is just them exercising their speech and property rights.