Honest opinion on this. D&D thrived thanks to the players, to the people who kept it up, shared it with their friends and family. Despite Satanic Panic, despite all the bullcrap that happened over the years, D&D and other TTRPG's have held fast thanks to the fans, not to the companies. So if WotC is going to come along and try to reduce the power the fans have, or heavily scrutinize them and any of their work, then that company and any of the people who believe that they can put forward something like the new (albeit leaked so who knows what will happen) OGL, they can all suffer profit loss.
Now of course, if the leaked info is all that we're gonna here, and WotC scraps the project, then cool. They'll have gotten the message, or never had such intention to begin with. But the folks who are saying to stop over-reacting to this? No. We, the players, have a lot more power than we realize. We can just go elsewhere and keep enjoying the fun fantasy of TTRPG's. We might not completely dry up the revenue that WotC is making, but we can sure as hell put a dent into their profits.
Legendary Bundle + Master Subscription. I have every Player's Handbook/DMG/MM from 1E-5E behind me right now, and a lot of select hardbacks from various versions (every current 5E hardback). I have a letter from Roger E. Moore from Dragon magazine that I received as a young man, in response to my pitch to submit an adventure for publication. I was genuinely looking forward to an official VTT system, I would have spent hundreds if not thousands on 6E.
Just cancelled my subscription. I will not be renewing.
The timing is a bit tricky, as I am just starting organizing a new campaign with 4 new players. However, I feel the proposed changes to the OGL are so egregious -- and reveal a corporate mindset so wildly out of touch with its own product and user base -- that I can no longer support D&D under Hasbro/WotC.
If anything good has come out of this, it looks like the Open RPG Creative License may give us an "Open Source" or "Creative Commons" licensing similar to what the software world has -- I'll be watching it with great interest, and watching D&D 6E with great disappointment.
I also want to be perfectly clear, rolling out a less-bad-but-still-terrible OGL will not get me back. Adoption of the ORC? MAAAAAYYYBE. No tool, no lore, nothing outside of an iron-clad "open source"-style license that Richard Stallman would personally approve will do it for me.
Last time I played DnD I dont t hink any of that was a concern for me.....Copyright strikes......micro tranactions........pay walls...... what the hell are you talking about?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
I guess I'm just remembering when Horse Armour turned up in Oblivion - 'oh don't worry its just a few dollars to make your horse look cool it doesn't change gameplay'... now EA and Blizzard are constantly being sued and having 'games' banned in countries for predatory gambling practices. Games that when working out raw cost skyrocket into the hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Games are now marketed as online services - you need to log in daily to claim 'rewards' - do mini grinds - interact - pay for emotes - even pay just to keep playing the current 'season' and then Copyright striking fans streaming the game because they gave a poor review of the newest expansion.
WotC just released 60 random MTG cards that can't be officially used for $999 - but don't worry it's still all about the game.
If you don't think that 3 years from now you won't be seeing people justifying $5 for a 'Power Pose' / 'Sobbing' emote for your VTT toon which triggers on a Critical/Fail - has the rare easter special event hat, and is spamming a random meme dance waiting in a LFG lobby for a GM to do free work for WotC, you are far less cynical than me.
When I hear the term 'under monetised' and no response over a leaked contract, that seemed almost unbelievable, you better believe I'm rolling an insight check.
If they release OGL 1.1 as the leaks have it written (or substantially the same) I'm cancelling my subscription. I'm paid until October, so it won't affect my current campaigns, but I really can't support Wizards if they go through with this. I guess we'll see what happens if they decide to make an official comment or release.
I've been subscribed for 3 years too, and cancelled a few days ago.
I too am paid until September.... but renewing.... gee I don't know.... If they add irrevocable to ogl 1.0a and enrich the SRD or do something else big for the community , then... I still do not know... Maybe if they also make a free VTT, at least as free as roll20, or a single payment as is FoundryVTT... then!!! .... maybe....
(I canceled my Master subscription after 3 annual payments. If WotC makes luxurious amends, I will renew, otherwise, maybe the DNDBeyond devs can get my money in a side-gig of theirs?)
I will no longer support WotC after the OGL leaked. Fire Chris Cocks and Cynthia Williams before they do more damage to your company and the community. Being given crumbs for digital subscriptions and then being told you want more money from fans who made better content, that’s nonsense. I liked D&D Beyond and now I cancelled my subscription and may never have it again. Because I will not be told by any company that “too bad, we had to”. Because no you didn’t and everything about it is wrong and if you cannot listen to clear and direct feedback then you never deserved my money. Gary Gygax himself said none of us need you anyway. I can use my imagination for free thank you very much and it is only out of my own kindness and generosity that I padded the company’s pockets by supporting lackluster products. Change immediately or you’re never getting another penny from me. #opendnd #weslaydragons
The issue is its currently a game of Chinese whispers all of this "im an ex employee and this is what the bosses said" crap. 1 how do we know they are an d 2 the bosses wont be sending an email to the staff advising they dont really care about the consumers. I for one wont be doing anything until they themselves formally announce something as at this point we are not doing anyone a favour.
I will not support Wizards or Hasbro if this roles out. I may consider subscribing again if they convince me that they can be trusted. Right now I do not.
Not to stoke the fire, but we’re not talking about a small rumor, this has created an uproar in the greater D&D community. Touching every discord group that I’m a part of, every RPG channel I subscribe to on YouTube, and has drawn official responses and statements from major companies such as Paizo, Kobold Press, Chaosium, Green Ronin, Legendary Games, and Rogue Genius Games in signing the Open RPG Creative License (ORC) being developed with Azora Law, who will own the ORC after it’s completion. If you go to Paizo’s website you can find the article in their community blog.
In my opinion, it has been over a week since the potential leak of the OGL 1.1. If other major players can formulate an official response to the alleged leak, why has WoTC not?
My groups and I will be taking a hiatus from D&D for the next couple years anyway (just canceled my GM membership) to explore other alternatives. May this dark portent be but a nightmare that fades with the dawn, and if not may fortune favor you and your party in the years to come, wherever your path may take you!
Being a yearly subscriber I am not making any changes yet because a: this is still a 'draft leak' b: I'm not going to risk people's jobs over something that isn't 100% confirmed and c: there's no money in it for WOTC. - however I also don't think this leak is anything like a 'final' version of OGL licence that WOTC was planning to use.
But just in case, if anyone from WOTC is checking up on this thread, let me be clear:
I pay for DND to support the writers, artists and creators. So any change to the OGL that means we can't guarantee that the material hasn't been stolen from 3rd parties will be the 'end' of DND as we know it.
While I know corporates can be stupid I don't think the leaked licence was ever going to be a 'real thing' because WOTC can't promise a 'backwards compatible' OneDND while at the same time ending support for every single bit of content dating back to 3rd edition by 'voiding' the OGL licence.
Frankly, the timing is dumb.
Hasbro knows that most DND players already have all the books and content they need to keep playing without giving WOTC another cent in revenue and are hoping to sell people on OneDND in the next 2 years.
Right now they're in a bind that DND is not like Magic: The Gathering, there's nothing to 'force' you to keep paying - people do it because they chose to. As such this thread shows that there is nothing to stop people cancelling memberships or holding off on buying new DND products until the situation is sorted out.
Which will mostly hurt the lower-level staff at WOTC - because when profit drops they're the ones likely to be fired over decisions they had nothing to do with.
So either all this was a genius play by WOTC to get Pathfinder to commit to a creating a 'universal' OGL Licence for RPG's instead of leaving WOTC to do all the work or (my gut feel) is this if this was a real draft it was a very early one from before the 'sensible' people in the room explain what the OGL licence was, and why you can't go meddling with it like that.
But I do wish WOTC would hurry up and speak out about this and set people's mind to ease, because this has very much hurt people who rely upon certainty regarding the OGL licence.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Alberta Banana@TheRealAlberta: Good News! I finally brought Zangief back from the Dead :D :D :D Also I'M A LITCH FOR REAL! Downside may have ruined 60% of Athas in the process... sigh... I'll fix it tomorrow. LVL20 Litch, Sorcerer King of the Second Banana Age of Athas, Survivor of the Tomb of Horrors, Backwards Spellcaster, Undead Warlock Patron to Jane with a army of Simulacrum clones.
This was NOT a draft. The owner/operator of Griffin's Saddlebag has confirmed this. You don't send out a "draft" agreement to be signed and put into effect.
Hasbro/WOTC was in full motion to get this in place and were outed before it could happen. The ONLY reason the new OGL might be changed is because a journalist did their job.
Being a yearly subscriber I am not making any changes yet because a: this is still a 'draft leak' b: I'm not going to risk people's jobs over something that isn't 100% confirmed and c: there's no money in it for WOTC. - however I also don't think this leak is anything like a 'final' version of OGL licence that WOTC was planning to use.
But just in case, if anyone from WOTC is checking up on this thread, let me be clear:
I pay for DND to support the writers, artists and creators. So any change to the OGL that means we can't guarantee that the material hasn't been stolen from 3rd parties will be the 'end' of DND as we know it.
While I know corporates can be stupid I don't think the leaked licence was ever going to be a 'real thing' because WOTC can't promise a 'backwards compatible' OneDND while at the same time ending support for every single bit of content dating back to 3rd edition by 'voiding' the OGL licence.
Frankly, the timing is dumb.
Hasbro knows that most DND players already have all the books and content they need to keep playing without giving WOTC another cent in revenue and are hoping to sell people on OneDND in the next 2 years.
Right now they're in a bind that DND is not like Magic: The Gathering, there's nothing to 'force' you to keep paying - people do it because they chose to. As such this thread shows that there is nothing to stop people cancelling memberships or holding off on buying new DND products until the situation is sorted out.
Which will mostly hurt the lower-level staff at WOTC - because when profit drops they're the ones likely to be fired over decisions they had nothing to do with.
So either all this was a genius play by WOTC to get Pathfinder to commit to a creating a 'universal' OGL Licence for RPG's instead of leaving WOTC to do all the work or (my gut feel) is this if this was a real draft it was a very early one from before the 'sensible' people in the room explain what the OGL licence was, and why you can't go meddling with it like that.
But I do wish WOTC would hurry up and speak out about this and set people's mind to ease, because this has very much hurt people who rely upon certainty regarding the OGL licence.
Respectfully, if you are a yearly subscriber and you cancel your subscription today, all it does is prevent your subscription from auto-renewing when the period that you paid for runs out. For me, that was in April.
So, if you Unsub now, you LOSE NO BENEFITS until your sub runs out, but you send a message TODAY!!!
This was NOT a draft. The owner/operator of Griffin's Saddlebag has confirmed this. You don't send out a "draft" agreement to be signed and put into effect.
Hasbro/WOTC was in full motion to get this in place and were outed before it could happen. The ONLY reason the new OGL might be changed is because a journalist did their job.
People dismissing this as an "unverified leak" and so on are very poorly informed or else stalwart loyalists to the jackbooted thugs who run the C-Suites at WoTC and Hasbro.
If I were the movie studio and producers of the new DnD movie I would be getting my lawyers involved asap! Hasbro has literally shot themselves in the food with a handcrossbow. That movie looked fantastic. Now I'm not going to watch it in the theatre as I planned too with the gf. I'll either wait for it on streaming services or some other way. Seriously they dun goofed. The dnD community isn't the MTG community. We actually have teeth and will leave. How did they not tell these suits about 4e? And if they did how did they not take that into consideration?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I canceled my subscription yesterday, and I'd been subscribed for 3 years. I'm not giving Hasbro another penny.
Cancelled mine. I'll resub if they earn it.
Honest opinion on this. D&D thrived thanks to the players, to the people who kept it up, shared it with their friends and family. Despite Satanic Panic, despite all the bullcrap that happened over the years, D&D and other TTRPG's have held fast thanks to the fans, not to the companies.
So if WotC is going to come along and try to reduce the power the fans have, or heavily scrutinize them and any of their work, then that company and any of the people who believe that they can put forward something like the new (albeit leaked so who knows what will happen) OGL, they can all suffer profit loss.
Now of course, if the leaked info is all that we're gonna here, and WotC scraps the project, then cool. They'll have gotten the message, or never had such intention to begin with.
But the folks who are saying to stop over-reacting to this? No. We, the players, have a lot more power than we realize. We can just go elsewhere and keep enjoying the fun fantasy of TTRPG's. We might not completely dry up the revenue that WotC is making, but we can sure as hell put a dent into their profits.
Legendary Bundle + Master Subscription. I have every Player's Handbook/DMG/MM from 1E-5E behind me right now, and a lot of select hardbacks from various versions (every current 5E hardback). I have a letter from Roger E. Moore from Dragon magazine that I received as a young man, in response to my pitch to submit an adventure for publication. I was genuinely looking forward to an official VTT system, I would have spent hundreds if not thousands on 6E.
Just cancelled my subscription. I will not be renewing.
The timing is a bit tricky, as I am just starting organizing a new campaign with 4 new players. However, I feel the proposed changes to the OGL are so egregious -- and reveal a corporate mindset so wildly out of touch with its own product and user base -- that I can no longer support D&D under Hasbro/WotC.
If anything good has come out of this, it looks like the Open RPG Creative License may give us an "Open Source" or "Creative Commons" licensing similar to what the software world has -- I'll be watching it with great interest, and watching D&D 6E with great disappointment.
I also want to be perfectly clear, rolling out a less-bad-but-still-terrible OGL will not get me back. Adoption of the ORC? MAAAAAYYYBE. No tool, no lore, nothing outside of an iron-clad "open source"-style license that Richard Stallman would personally approve will do it for me.
Damn you for doing this Hasbro.
I guess I'm just remembering when Horse Armour turned up in Oblivion - 'oh don't worry its just a few dollars to make your horse look cool it doesn't change gameplay'... now EA and Blizzard are constantly being sued and having 'games' banned in countries for predatory gambling practices. Games that when working out raw cost skyrocket into the hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Games are now marketed as online services - you need to log in daily to claim 'rewards' - do mini grinds - interact - pay for emotes - even pay just to keep playing the current 'season' and then Copyright striking fans streaming the game because they gave a poor review of the newest expansion.
WotC just released 60 random MTG cards that can't be officially used for $999 - but don't worry it's still all about the game.
If you don't think that 3 years from now you won't be seeing people justifying $5 for a 'Power Pose' / 'Sobbing' emote for your VTT toon which triggers on a Critical/Fail - has the rare easter special event hat, and is spamming a random meme dance waiting in a LFG lobby for a GM to do free work for WotC, you are far less cynical than me.
When I hear the term 'under monetised' and no response over a leaked contract, that seemed almost unbelievable, you better believe I'm rolling an insight check.
If they release OGL 1.1 as the leaks have it written (or substantially the same) I'm cancelling my subscription. I'm paid until October, so it won't affect my current campaigns, but I really can't support Wizards if they go through with this. I guess we'll see what happens if they decide to make an official comment or release.
I've been subscribed for 3 years too, and cancelled a few days ago.
I too am paid until September.... but renewing.... gee I don't know.... If they add irrevocable to ogl 1.0a and enrich the SRD or do something else big for the community , then... I still do not know... Maybe if they also make a free VTT, at least as free as roll20, or a single payment as is FoundryVTT... then!!! .... maybe....
Gee this is poisoning the well, isn't it?
Take a look at my homebrew world https://dnd-world.com
I am a Career Coach, with a passion for RPG! Up to supporting new ventures or renewal/rebranding, and I am setting up a free group coaching thing, open for all here.
(I canceled my Master subscription after 3 annual payments. If WotC makes luxurious amends, I will renew, otherwise, maybe the DNDBeyond devs can get my money in a side-gig of theirs?)
I'll add my voice to this.
Cancelled my sub just now, I don't agree with the direction of this.
agreed.
I will no longer support WotC after the OGL leaked. Fire Chris Cocks and Cynthia Williams before they do more damage to your company and the community. Being given crumbs for digital subscriptions and then being told you want more money from fans who made better content, that’s nonsense. I liked D&D Beyond and now I cancelled my subscription and may never have it again. Because I will not be told by any company that “too bad, we had to”. Because no you didn’t and everything about it is wrong and if you cannot listen to clear and direct feedback then you never deserved my money. Gary Gygax himself said none of us need you anyway. I can use my imagination for free thank you very much and it is only out of my own kindness and generosity that I padded the company’s pockets by supporting lackluster products. Change immediately or you’re never getting another penny from me. #opendnd #weslaydragons
Power Word Skill
Power Word Skill
The issue is its currently a game of Chinese whispers all of this "im an ex employee and this is what the bosses said" crap. 1 how do we know they are an d 2 the bosses wont be sending an email to the staff advising they dont really care about the consumers. I for one wont be doing anything until they themselves formally announce something as at this point we are not doing anyone a favour.
cannot vote, there's not a valid neutral answer.
I'll wait forming an opinion till I have read the published 1.1 OGL or official WoTC statement. Leaks are not proof enough ;)
I agree with those that have mentioned the poll has a strong bias; it feels like it is saying there is only one right answer.
Deleted my subscription this morning.
I will not support Wizards or Hasbro if this roles out. I may consider subscribing again if they convince me that they can be trusted. Right now I do not.
Not to stoke the fire, but we’re not talking about a small rumor, this has created an uproar in the greater D&D community. Touching every discord group that I’m a part of, every RPG channel I subscribe to on YouTube, and has drawn official responses and statements from major companies such as Paizo, Kobold Press, Chaosium, Green Ronin, Legendary Games, and Rogue Genius Games in signing the Open RPG Creative License (ORC) being developed with Azora Law, who will own the ORC after it’s completion. If you go to Paizo’s website you can find the article in their community blog.
In my opinion, it has been over a week since the potential leak of the OGL 1.1. If other major players can formulate an official response to the alleged leak, why has WoTC not?
My groups and I will be taking a hiatus from D&D for the next couple years anyway (just canceled my GM membership) to explore other alternatives. May this dark portent be but a nightmare that fades with the dawn, and if not may fortune favor you and your party in the years to come, wherever your path may take you!
Being a yearly subscriber I am not making any changes yet because a: this is still a 'draft leak' b: I'm not going to risk people's jobs over something that isn't 100% confirmed and c: there's no money in it for WOTC. - however I also don't think this leak is anything like a 'final' version of OGL licence that WOTC was planning to use.
But just in case, if anyone from WOTC is checking up on this thread, let me be clear:
I pay for DND to support the writers, artists and creators.
So any change to the OGL that means we can't guarantee that the material hasn't been stolen from 3rd parties will be the 'end' of DND as we know it.
While I know corporates can be stupid I don't think the leaked licence was ever going to be a 'real thing' because WOTC can't promise a 'backwards compatible' OneDND while at the same time ending support for every single bit of content dating back to 3rd edition by 'voiding' the OGL licence.
Frankly, the timing is dumb.
Hasbro knows that most DND players already have all the books and content they need to keep playing without giving WOTC another cent in revenue and are hoping to sell people on OneDND in the next 2 years.
Right now they're in a bind that DND is not like Magic: The Gathering, there's nothing to 'force' you to keep paying - people do it because they chose to.
As such this thread shows that there is nothing to stop people cancelling memberships or holding off on buying new DND products until the situation is sorted out.
Which will mostly hurt the lower-level staff at WOTC - because when profit drops they're the ones likely to be fired over decisions they had nothing to do with.
So either all this was a genius play by WOTC to get Pathfinder to commit to a creating a 'universal' OGL Licence for RPG's instead of leaving WOTC to do all the work or (my gut feel) is this if this was a real draft it was a very early one from before the 'sensible' people in the room explain what the OGL licence was, and why you can't go meddling with it like that.
But I do wish WOTC would hurry up and speak out about this and set people's mind to ease, because this has very much hurt people who rely upon certainty regarding the OGL licence.
Alberta Banana @TheRealAlberta: Good News! I finally brought Zangief back from the Dead :D :D :D Also I'M A LITCH FOR REAL! Downside may have ruined 60% of Athas in the process... sigh... I'll fix it tomorrow.
LVL20 Litch, Sorcerer King of the Second Banana Age of Athas, Survivor of the Tomb of Horrors, Backwards Spellcaster, Undead Warlock Patron to Jane with a army of Simulacrum clones.
This was NOT a draft. The owner/operator of Griffin's Saddlebag has confirmed this. You don't send out a "draft" agreement to be signed and put into effect.
Hasbro/WOTC was in full motion to get this in place and were outed before it could happen. The ONLY reason the new OGL might be changed is because a journalist did their job.
Respectfully, if you are a yearly subscriber and you cancel your subscription today, all it does is prevent your subscription from auto-renewing when the period that you paid for runs out. For me, that was in April.
So, if you Unsub now, you LOSE NO BENEFITS until your sub runs out, but you send a message TODAY!!!
Please reconsider and UNSUB NOW!
People dismissing this as an "unverified leak" and so on are very poorly informed or else stalwart loyalists to the jackbooted thugs who run the C-Suites at WoTC and Hasbro.
If I were the movie studio and producers of the new DnD movie I would be getting my lawyers involved asap! Hasbro has literally shot themselves in the food with a handcrossbow. That movie looked fantastic. Now I'm not going to watch it in the theatre as I planned too with the gf. I'll either wait for it on streaming services or some other way. Seriously they dun goofed. The dnD community isn't the MTG community. We actually have teeth and will leave. How did they not tell these suits about 4e? And if they did how did they not take that into consideration?