I am not so sure that the damage that this matter is causing to WoTC can be accounted for in those 65,000 signatures.
In fact, i doubt that it can even be accounted for with dndbeyond subscription cancellations (although it is unreliable that they have).
The damage will be accounted for if a competitor actually comes out that offers the same experience that D&D offers, and third parties can safely create content for them. If that happens, like for example with ORC, and hardly anyone signs OGL 2.0 and therefore One D&D has almost no third party content; many players will migrate to that competitor. Especially if the adaptation of 5e is easy and fast.
I which case expressing your outrage on these forums and trying to get people to quit playing D&D is valuable, because it's not what will actually make a difference. Again, I am not telling you not to migrate to a better system. I myself am likely to go to another system where I can create homebrew content without the OGL 1.1. But Telling everyone "Cancel your subscriptions, boycott WotC, make them rue the day they got rid of OGL 1.0a", or worse "I'm abandoning this game forever screw you WotC" is in no way productive. You're just harming other people because you hate OGL 1.1, without actually making change.
If we move to other systems but still subscribe to WotC we're funding them on a campaign of anti-creator hate, EVEN IF they change the OGL. I am fully on the side of abandoning all new rules and not buying from WotC again, because they've shown they're capable of stealing entire lives worth of work in an instant if they so choose. WotC WILL notice it. Money, though? They will notice. And they will do anything - anything at all, as shown by that OGL - to get it.
Can I just say I love how the original designers of the OGL have stated multiple times that WotC can NOT revoke the OGL and yet you still have people saying that oh yes they can, and I'm no lawyer but I'm going to believe the people who made they document since I would imagine they both know more about than me and I would imagine any judge would take their declaration of intent into consideration. But hey like I said I'm not a lawyer so what do I know.
Dancey's intent is indeed well-known - but Four Corners Doctrine may trump what he intended. If he wanted the original to truly be irrevocable, he should have said so while he was in charge and had the chance; at the end of the day, he has no one but himself to blame that it doesn't.
Yup. The intent of the author is not really very relevant (it can be sometimes, but it’s usually a tough sell). What’s written down is what matters. It needs to stand on its own. It’s like all the arguments we have here about RAW v. RAI, and Crawford coming along saying, we didn’t mean it like that, but that’s what it says, so go with what it says. Just with this, the stakes actually matter. Moreover, Dancy isn’t in charge any more. His opinion counts about as much as your or mine, which is to say, not at all, really. New bosses, new directions.
This isn't as clear cut as you might think. Demonstrating a pattern of behavior that reflects what the original creator intended especially over as long a period as 22+ years could go a long way to arguing that 'deauthorizing', in this context, can't be done (reliance). If WOTC just admits defeat and contains no language touching the 1.0 or do what they did in GSL (ie ensure that nobody signing up with the new license can publish new material with the old license) then this discussion is all interesting but moot anyway. It seems they are going this route but Gods know what will happen a few weeks or months from now.
Unless you want them to eat you. Then go ahead - ignore the rabid hyenas
Yes! Use you voice to yell louder. Become a hyena! Stop trying to placate the community who have been condescended to, taken advantage of, and lied too.
As this thread is clear, being a hyena is fine. Rabies, on the other hand, effectively has a 100% mortality rate for the host - not something to emulate.
WotC has said nothing, D&D Beyond is a subsidiary. No one put their name to the announcement. Corporate speech is there, so they can appear to say one thing while doing something else.
So till we see the OGL 2.0 license pressure should be continued to be applied. WotC knew what the outcome of 1.1 would be, they have lawyers and a PR team to know this. So far this is likely just part of their plan, cause a shit storm now, so the noise dies down. A big distraction comes along, like a blockbuster movie, then they slip changes in they want.
Also if there no competition they can jack prices up, impose costs on players. This effects all of us.
I know pulse checkers for companies, trolling forums and such for customer feedbacks will filter out "useless" posts pretty quickly. If I am tasked with that job, anyone who says they are done and never returning gets added to my filter OUT list, so I don't have to read through their mindless and useless ranting as I do my research. If you're gone, you're gone and your opinion is of no value to me or my company, You state you are done and thus will not be feeding me cash, so why should I give a rat's ass what you have to say>
Those who are sitting and watching closely and saying the new agreement better be done right or they're leaving are the voices I want to track and log details from. These are the people whose business I may still be able to keep and as such, I will be carefully listening to what THEY want. Filtering out nerdragers is a good first step in getting some useful feedback. As a massive parent company, a lot of our customers understand and appreciate that we will, from time to time, fire a shot.....that hits our foot. Often we can backtrack and find out the person who aimed said shot was too detached from our goal, or simply overbearing and idiotic and then we need to start working on damage control AND a change of direction for said shot. Never fun, but a part of massive business that occurs (and will again in the future)
Too many folks have gotten their skivvies all tied into tight knots and can't get past the fact that Hasbro, from 50 miles away, shoved something down the pipe that was absolute shit. Horribly done, rushed, mishandled in pretty much every way it could be. It's something that now seems to have been handed to a much more in touch and sensible crew, who have no doubt been poring over the details, to try and make sure their collective asses are covered (listed as a main intent of changing the OGL) while not being some corporate ravager of creativity. When dealing with such an open IP as this, it can't be easy and I suspect, to do it RIGHT will require a MUCH longer document than what was leaked. Yes, cumbersome and boring as all hell to read through, but it would need to be so, to cover the proper bases and NOT step on the toes of everyone involved.
Pretending they care what we're saying is cute. But we can clearly see that's not the case. The only thing they're looking at is $$. Your comments don't hold any more weight than mine to WotC. They've tuned us all out. It's not some bizarre coincidence that they release a poorly thought out comment just as droves of people are canceling thier subs.
And it's amazing that there are still people trying to pass this off onto Hasbro. All Hasbro did was say "make more money". WotC were the ones who decided how they were going to do that. They don't have thier own corporate structure as a lark. WotC isn't your friend and they don't deserve your loyalty.
Unless you want them to eat you. Then go ahead - ignore the rabid hyenas
Yes! Use you voice to yell louder. Become a hyena! Stop trying to placate the community who have been condescended to, taken advantage of, and lied too.
As this thread is clear, being a hyena is fine. Rabies, on the other hand, effectively has a 100% mortality rate for the host - not something to emulate.
Here's something we actually agree on. WotC's rabid OGL 1.1 is looking like another nail in thier coffin...
I know pulse checkers for companies, trolling forums and such for customer feedbacks will filter out "useless" posts pretty quickly. If I am tasked with that job, anyone who says they are done and never returning gets added to my filter OUT list, so I don't have to read through their mindless and useless ranting as I do my research. If you're gone, you're gone and your opinion is of no value to me or my company, You state you are done and thus will not be feeding me cash, so why should I give a rat's ass what you have to say>
Those who are sitting and watching closely and saying the new agreement better be done right or they're leaving are the voices I want to track and log details from. These are the people whose business I may still be able to keep and as such, I will be carefully listening to what THEY want. Filtering out nerdragers is a good first step in getting some useful feedback. As a massive parent company, a lot of our customers understand and appreciate that we will, from time to time, fire a shot.....that hits our foot. Often we can backtrack and find out the person who aimed said shot was too detached from our goal, or simply overbearing and idiotic and then we need to start working on damage control AND a change of direction for said shot. Never fun, but a part of massive business that occurs (and will again in the future)
Too many folks have gotten their skivvies all tied into tight knots and can't get past the fact that Hasbro, from 50 miles away, shoved something down the pipe that was absolute shit. Horribly done, rushed, mishandled in pretty much every way it could be. It's something that now seems to have been handed to a much more in touch and sensible crew, who have no doubt been poring over the details, to try and make sure their collective asses are covered (listed as a main intent of changing the OGL) while not being some corporate ravager of creativity. When dealing with such an open IP as this, it can't be easy and I suspect, to do it RIGHT will require a MUCH longer document than what was leaked. Yes, cumbersome and boring as all hell to read through, but it would need to be so, to cover the proper bases and NOT step on the toes of everyone involved.
Pretending they care what we're saying is cute. But we can clearly see that's not the case. The only thing they're looking at is $$. Your comments don't hold any more weight than mine to WotC. They've tuned us all out. It's not some bizarre coincidence that they release a poorly thought out comment just as droves of people are canceling thier subs.
And it's amazing that there are still people trying to pass this off onto Hasbro. All Hasbro did was say "make more money". WotC were the ones who decided how they were going to do that. They don't have thier own corporate structure as a lark. WotC isn't your friend and they don't deserve your loyalty.
So we should all just quit, then? If they are not listening, all the vitriol on the forum is pointless. If they are listening, all the vitriol on the forum is harmful to our cause. We might be fighting windmills here, both WotC and the Rage, but I think it's too early to quit.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
DM for life by choice, biggest fan of D&D specifically.
I am not so sure that the damage that this matter is causing to WoTC can be accounted for in those 65,000 signatures.
In fact, i doubt that it can even be accounted for with dndbeyond subscription cancellations (although it is unreliable that they have)The damage will be accounted for if a competitor actually comes out that offers the same experience that D&D offers, and third parties can safely create content for them. If that happens, like for example with ORC, and hardly anyone signs OGL 2.0 and therefore One D&D has almost no third party content; many players will migrate to that competitor. Especially if the adaptation of 5e is easy and fast.
I which case expressing your outrage on these forums and trying to get people to quit playing D&D isn't valuable, because it's not what will actually make a difference. Again, I am not telling you not to migrate to a better system. I myself am likely to go to another system where I can create homebrew content without the OGL 1.1. But Telling everyone "Cancel your subscriptions, boycott WotC, make them rue the day they got rid of OGL 1.0a", or worse "I'm abandoning this game forever screw you WotC" is in no way productive. You're just harming other people because you hate OGL 1.1, without actually making change.
If we move to other systems but still subscribe to WotC we're funding them on a campaign of anti-creator hate, EVEN IF they change the OGL. I am fully on the side of abandoning all new rules and not buying from WotC again, because they've shown they're capable of stealing entire lives worth of work in an instant if they so choose. WotC WILL notice it. Money, though? They will notice. And they will do anything - anything at all, as shown by that OGL - to get it.
I don't disagree. What I do disagree about is telling other people to do it in the hopes that it will somehow harm WotC. With tens of millions of accounts on D&DBbeyond and likely thousands if not more who don't have a D&Dbeyond, the 65,000 who signed the petition makes up only half a percent of the number of D&Dbeyond accounts, much less all the other players. The big creators who left a big impact: we will not. So then, by your own conscious you can decide what to do. You shouldn't be telling others to leave the system, it's not like it will make a significant in terms of WotC revenue and it may well be harming the people who leave in real ways. You don't want to continue funding WotC? Fine. By all means, I am fine with anyone leaving if they do not wish to support WotC or for any other reasons for that matter. I cannot support anyone claiming that if you want OGL 1.0a then you must boycott WotC and leave forever, claiming that this will incentivize WotC to bring back OGL 1.0a. The only thing that will do this is the creators who's leaving will actually cost WotC money.
I am not so sure that the damage that this matter is causing to WoTC can be accounted for in those 65,000 signatures.
In fact, i doubt that it can even be accounted for with dndbeyond subscription cancellations (although it is unreliable that they have)The damage will be accounted for if a competitor actually comes out that offers the same experience that D&D offers, and third parties can safely create content for them. If that happens, like for example with ORC, and hardly anyone signs OGL 2.0 and therefore One D&D has almost no third party content; many players will migrate to that competitor. Especially if the adaptation of 5e is easy and fast.
I which case expressing your outrage on these forums and trying to get people to quit playing D&D isn't valuable, because it's not what will actually make a difference. Again, I am not telling you not to migrate to a better system. I myself am likely to go to another system where I can create homebrew content without the OGL 1.1. But Telling everyone "Cancel your subscriptions, boycott WotC, make them rue the day they got rid of OGL 1.0a", or worse "I'm abandoning this game forever screw you WotC" is in no way productive. You're just harming other people because you hate OGL 1.1, without actually making change.
If we move to other systems but still subscribe to WotC we're funding them on a campaign of anti-creator hate, EVEN IF they change the OGL. I am fully on the side of abandoning all new rules and not buying from WotC again, because they've shown they're capable of stealing entire lives worth of work in an instant if they so choose. WotC WILL notice it. Money, though? They will notice. And they will do anything - anything at all, as shown by that OGL - to get it.
I don't disagree. What I do disagree about is telling other people to do it in the hopes that it will somehow harm WotC. With tens of millions of accounts on D&DBbeyond and likely thousands if not more who don't have a D&Dbeyond, the 65,000 who signed the petition makes up only half a percent of the number of D&Dbeyond accounts, much less all the other players. The big creators who left a big impact: we will not. So then, by your own conscious you can decide what to do. You shouldn't be telling others to leave the system, it's not like it will make a significant in terms of WotC revenue and it may well be harming the people who leave in real ways. You don't want to continue funding WotC? Fine. By all means, I am fine with anyone leaving if they do not wish to support WotC or for any other reasons for that matter. I cannot support anyone claiming that if you want OGL 1.0a then you must boycott WotC and leave forever, claiming that this will incentivize WotC to bring back OGL 1.0a. The only thing that will do this is the creators who's leaving will actually cost WotC money.
It's better than doing nothing, is all. I don't disagree with the numbers either; but cancelling subscriptions also likely has good mental benefits by releasing you from a very very toxic company/consumer relationship.
I don't disagree. What I do disagree about is telling other people to do it in the hopes that it will somehow harm WotC. With tens of millions of accounts on D&DBbeyond and likely thousands if not more who don't have a D&Dbeyond, the 65,000 who signed the petition makes up only half a percent of the number of D&Dbeyond accounts, much less all the other players. The big creators who left a big impact: we will not. So then, by your own conscious you can decide what to do. You shouldn't be telling others to leave the system, it's not like it will make a significant in terms of WotC revenue and it may well be harming the people who leave in real ways. You don't want to continue funding WotC? Fine. By all means, I am fine with anyone leaving if they do not wish to support WotC or for any other reasons for that matter. I cannot support anyone claiming that if you want OGL 1.0a then you must boycott WotC and leave forever, claiming that this will incentivize WotC to bring back OGL 1.0a. The only thing that will do this is the creators who's leaving will actually cost WotC money.
Telling people they individually don't make enough of a difference to justify taking action is absolutely a pro-corporate tactic to mislead people into inaction. Every single cancelled subscription is an individual action, and folks can absolutely make a difference by canceling their subs individually, as part of a community movment. Absolutely anyone who cares about this issue to any degree should cancel, especially since if WotC does come around and rebuild trust, somehow, its trivial to re-subscribe at that time. There is essentially zero opportunity cost to canceling subscriptions, and it absolutely contributes to expressing displeasure with the situation.
People should absolutely tell their friends about the situation, make sure they're educated, and encourage them to unsub if they're upset by the situation. That's exactly how effective community boycotts and protests work, and they are absolutely effective.
Anyone saying otherwise is engaged in attempting to suppress community outrage, presumably to WotC's benefit.
Which is bizarre, because tangible historical evidence suggests convincing them to stop trying to get rid of 1.0a is to their actual benefit.
Relinking this because more people need to see it. One of my favorite YT personalities, with a good track record on legal issues, dissecting the OGL situation and coming up with a pretty unique take. One we may see more of if people's rampant panicmongering somehow turns out to be true and Wizards makes the next try at a new OGL evil, too.
Also: Legal Eagle outright says "as a legal document the OGL kinda sucks". What it's done for the community obviously is the opposite of sucking, but man. A lawyer needs more than nine hundred words to order takeout, let alone set up licensing and contractual terms for an entire industry for decades to come. After what Devon's laid down here I'm kinda surprised nobody's taken Wizards to the cleaners over this issue yet.
Relinking this because more people need to see it. One of my favorite YT personalities, with a good track record on legal issues, dissecting the OGL situation and coming up with a pretty unique take. One we may see more of if people's rampant panicmongering somehow turns out to be true and Wizards makes the next try at a new OGL evil, too.
Also: Legal Eagle outright says "as a legal document the OGL kinda sucks". What it's done for the community obviously is the opposite of sucking, but man. A lawyer needs more than nine hundred words to order takeout, let alone set up licensing and contractual terms for an entire industry for decades to come. After what Devon's laid down here I'm kinda surprised nobody's taken Wizards to the cleaners over this issue yet.
I love Legal Eagle, but I'm part of the way through and... this has already been talked about, by Ryan Dancey.
The benefit of the original OGL was that it was a 'Peace Treaty', a document that promised WotC wouldn't sue you, despite the fact that they probably couldn't... because TSR had been suing people, using their superior resources to try to force people to concede or settle due to the expense of court costs.
Ryan Dancey also already covered that the OGL isn't really necessary. By trying this power play, WotC is absolutely risking a lawsuit and a court case that finds that they in actuality can't copyright essentially anything mechanical about DnD...
They can copyright the system as a whole. They can copyright game terms (classes, spells etc.) They can copyright creatures (owlbears, mindflayers, etc.). Yes, the original OGL was a peace treaty and was probably the best solution back then. It is not sufficient now. Of course, WotC failed miserably in changing it into something better so far, but they still need to change it.
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DM for life by choice, biggest fan of D&D specifically.
One we may see more of if people's rampant panicmongering somehow turns out to be true and Wizards makes the next try at a new OGL evil, too.
Insults, condescension, and minimalizing the situation is not the way to persuade. I am getting tired of seeing naive kittens lapping up the bowl of warm milk that Hasbro has set out in front of you. It is poisoned.
Panicmongering is exactly what is happening. The OGL 2.0 will likely not be the final version, and it definitely won't have the clauses they announced it won't have. Because if it does, there is no chance anyone at all is coming back and more will leave. WotC is probably greedy, but they will be very careful not to be stupid after last week's fiasco.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
DM for life by choice, biggest fan of D&D specifically.
They can copyright the system as a whole. They can copyright game terms (classes, spells etc.) They can copyright creatures (owlbears, mindflayers, etc.). Yes, the original OGL was a peace treaty and was probably the best solution back then. It is not sufficient now. Of course, WotC failed miserably in changing it into something better so far, but they still need to change it.
If Devon is to be believed, and I have no real reason not to, then they cannot actually copyright "The System". They can copyright expression i.e. the exact things they write, the exact images they use, and the material they offer as presented, which is the important caveat. It's also a longstanding Thing in the legal system that judges are loathe to let companies trademark common-use terminology - I remember a pretty famous case from several years back where McDonald's tried to copyright the "Mc" prefix and prevent the entire rest of the world from using McAnything. The judge in that case told them to pound sand because you cannot copyright or trademark language, you can only copyright expression and you can only trademark things that help identify your brand to consumers. Terms like "class", "spell", "dragon", and other common-usage language cannot be trademarked because those things don't meaningfully identify D&D, specifically, as a brand in the marketplace.
Doesn't mean they won't try, corporations have a long and sordid history of overzealously fighting to protect their trademarks/copyrights even beyond the boundaries the law permits those things to be protected. Disney's the big culprit, being that Disney has basically single-handedly bought and paid for U.S. copyright law for the last fifty-odd years specifically to preserve its Evil Empire, but every company will go to distances it's not actually allowed to in order to scare people off their stuff. Which includes Paizo, KP, Green Ronin, and the rest. But given the hooplah around the whole situation, there's a slim possibility if things go south that someone's gonna actually put this to the test and get a court to weigh in. If that happens - I do not think it will, but if it happens - it'll be interesting to see who comes out on top.
Had always heard or read that Monopoly was historically created and designed by a man during the Great Depression Era in the United States.
Within the last several years, new information of that history reveals that the original creator & designer of Monopoly was actually... a woman as early as 1908.
Her name was Elizabeth Magie; she created a board game called 'The Landlord's Game' replete with the very same game elements of the Monopoly known today.
Never received credit for what she created until now.
I mean, Thomas Eddison's entire business methodology was "find a smart guy, pay him just enough to invent something cool, patent the invention, and then tell the inventor to **** off and die." Copyright/patent/trademark in this country has never been about who creates something, it's about who gets it into the system first. Those two are not necessarily - or even often - the same entity.
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Please do not contact or message me.
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If we move to other systems but still subscribe to WotC we're funding them on a campaign of anti-creator hate, EVEN IF they change the OGL. I am fully on the side of abandoning all new rules and not buying from WotC again, because they've shown they're capable of stealing entire lives worth of work in an instant if they so choose. WotC WILL notice it. Money, though? They will notice. And they will do anything - anything at all, as shown by that OGL - to get it.
Frequent Eladrin || They/Them, but accept all pronouns
Luz Noceda would like to remind you that you're worth loving!
Yup.
The intent of the author is not really very relevant (it can be sometimes, but it’s usually a tough sell). What’s written down is what matters. It needs to stand on its own. It’s like all the arguments we have here about RAW v. RAI, and Crawford coming along saying, we didn’t mean it like that, but that’s what it says, so go with what it says. Just with this, the stakes actually matter.
Moreover, Dancy isn’t in charge any more. His opinion counts about as much as your or mine, which is to say, not at all, really. New bosses, new directions.
This isn't as clear cut as you might think. Demonstrating a pattern of behavior that reflects what the original creator intended especially over as long a period as 22+ years could go a long way to arguing that 'deauthorizing', in this context, can't be done (reliance). If WOTC just admits defeat and contains no language touching the 1.0 or do what they did in GSL (ie ensure that nobody signing up with the new license can publish new material with the old license) then this discussion is all interesting but moot anyway. It seems they are going this route but Gods know what will happen a few weeks or months from now.
As this thread is clear, being a hyena is fine. Rabies, on the other hand, effectively has a 100% mortality rate for the host - not something to emulate.
WotC has said nothing, D&D Beyond is a subsidiary. No one put their name to the announcement. Corporate speech is there, so they can appear to say one thing while doing something else.
So till we see the OGL 2.0 license pressure should be continued to be applied. WotC knew what the outcome of 1.1 would be, they have lawyers and a PR team to know this. So far this is likely just part of their plan, cause a shit storm now, so the noise dies down. A big distraction comes along, like a blockbuster movie, then they slip changes in they want.
Also if there no competition they can jack prices up, impose costs on players. This effects all of us.
Pretending they care what we're saying is cute. But we can clearly see that's not the case. The only thing they're looking at is $$. Your comments don't hold any more weight than mine to WotC. They've tuned us all out. It's not some bizarre coincidence that they release a poorly thought out comment just as droves of people are canceling thier subs.
And it's amazing that there are still people trying to pass this off onto Hasbro. All Hasbro did was say "make more money". WotC were the ones who decided how they were going to do that. They don't have thier own corporate structure as a lark. WotC isn't your friend and they don't deserve your loyalty.
Here's something we actually agree on. WotC's rabid OGL 1.1 is looking like another nail in thier coffin...
So we should all just quit, then? If they are not listening, all the vitriol on the forum is pointless. If they are listening, all the vitriol on the forum is harmful to our cause. We might be fighting windmills here, both WotC and the Rage, but I think it's too early to quit.
DM for life by choice, biggest fan of D&D specifically.
I don't disagree. What I do disagree about is telling other people to do it in the hopes that it will somehow harm WotC. With tens of millions of accounts on D&DBbeyond and likely thousands if not more who don't have a D&Dbeyond, the 65,000 who signed the petition makes up only half a percent of the number of D&Dbeyond accounts, much less all the other players. The big creators who left a big impact: we will not. So then, by your own conscious you can decide what to do. You shouldn't be telling others to leave the system, it's not like it will make a significant in terms of WotC revenue and it may well be harming the people who leave in real ways. You don't want to continue funding WotC? Fine. By all means, I am fine with anyone leaving if they do not wish to support WotC or for any other reasons for that matter. I cannot support anyone claiming that if you want OGL 1.0a then you must boycott WotC and leave forever, claiming that this will incentivize WotC to bring back OGL 1.0a. The only thing that will do this is the creators who's leaving will actually cost WotC money.
I am an average mathematics enjoyer.
>Extended Signature<
It's better than doing nothing, is all. I don't disagree with the numbers either; but cancelling subscriptions also likely has good mental benefits by releasing you from a very very toxic company/consumer relationship.
Frequent Eladrin || They/Them, but accept all pronouns
Luz Noceda would like to remind you that you're worth loving!
Telling people they individually don't make enough of a difference to justify taking action is absolutely a pro-corporate tactic to mislead people into inaction. Every single cancelled subscription is an individual action, and folks can absolutely make a difference by canceling their subs individually, as part of a community movment. Absolutely anyone who cares about this issue to any degree should cancel, especially since if WotC does come around and rebuild trust, somehow, its trivial to re-subscribe at that time. There is essentially zero opportunity cost to canceling subscriptions, and it absolutely contributes to expressing displeasure with the situation.
People should absolutely tell their friends about the situation, make sure they're educated, and encourage them to unsub if they're upset by the situation. That's exactly how effective community boycotts and protests work, and they are absolutely effective.
Anyone saying otherwise is engaged in attempting to suppress community outrage, presumably to WotC's benefit.
Which is bizarre, because tangible historical evidence suggests convincing them to stop trying to get rid of 1.0a is to their actual benefit.
Relinking this because more people need to see it. One of my favorite YT personalities, with a good track record on legal issues, dissecting the OGL situation and coming up with a pretty unique take. One we may see more of if people's rampant panicmongering somehow turns out to be true and Wizards makes the next try at a new OGL evil, too.
Also: Legal Eagle outright says "as a legal document the OGL kinda sucks". What it's done for the community obviously is the opposite of sucking, but man. A lawyer needs more than nine hundred words to order takeout, let alone set up licensing and contractual terms for an entire industry for decades to come. After what Devon's laid down here I'm kinda surprised nobody's taken Wizards to the cleaners over this issue yet.
Please do not contact or message me.
I love Legal Eagle, but I'm part of the way through and... this has already been talked about, by Ryan Dancey.
The benefit of the original OGL was that it was a 'Peace Treaty', a document that promised WotC wouldn't sue you, despite the fact that they probably couldn't... because TSR had been suing people, using their superior resources to try to force people to concede or settle due to the expense of court costs.
Ryan Dancey also already covered that the OGL isn't really necessary. By trying this power play, WotC is absolutely risking a lawsuit and a court case that finds that they in actuality can't copyright essentially anything mechanical about DnD...
They can copyright the system as a whole. They can copyright game terms (classes, spells etc.) They can copyright creatures (owlbears, mindflayers, etc.). Yes, the original OGL was a peace treaty and was probably the best solution back then. It is not sufficient now. Of course, WotC failed miserably in changing it into something better so far, but they still need to change it.
DM for life by choice, biggest fan of D&D specifically.
Panicmongering is exactly what is happening. The OGL 2.0 will likely not be the final version, and it definitely won't have the clauses they announced it won't have. Because if it does, there is no chance anyone at all is coming back and more will leave. WotC is probably greedy, but they will be very careful not to be stupid after last week's fiasco.
DM for life by choice, biggest fan of D&D specifically.
If Devon is to be believed, and I have no real reason not to, then they cannot actually copyright "The System". They can copyright expression i.e. the exact things they write, the exact images they use, and the material they offer as presented, which is the important caveat. It's also a longstanding Thing in the legal system that judges are loathe to let companies trademark common-use terminology - I remember a pretty famous case from several years back where McDonald's tried to copyright the "Mc" prefix and prevent the entire rest of the world from using McAnything. The judge in that case told them to pound sand because you cannot copyright or trademark language, you can only copyright expression and you can only trademark things that help identify your brand to consumers. Terms like "class", "spell", "dragon", and other common-usage language cannot be trademarked because those things don't meaningfully identify D&D, specifically, as a brand in the marketplace.
Doesn't mean they won't try, corporations have a long and sordid history of overzealously fighting to protect their trademarks/copyrights even beyond the boundaries the law permits those things to be protected. Disney's the big culprit, being that Disney has basically single-handedly bought and paid for U.S. copyright law for the last fifty-odd years specifically to preserve its Evil Empire, but every company will go to distances it's not actually allowed to in order to scare people off their stuff. Which includes Paizo, KP, Green Ronin, and the rest. But given the hooplah around the whole situation, there's a slim possibility if things go south that someone's gonna actually put this to the test and get a court to weigh in. If that happens - I do not think it will, but if it happens - it'll be interesting to see who comes out on top.
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Re: Legal Eagle YouTube Video
Had always heard or read that Monopoly was historically created and designed by a man during the Great Depression Era in the United States.
Within the last several years, new information of that history reveals that the original creator & designer of Monopoly was actually... a woman as early as 1908.
Her name was Elizabeth Magie; she created a board game called 'The Landlord's Game' replete with the very same game elements of the Monopoly known today.
Never received credit for what she created until now.
I mean, Thomas Eddison's entire business methodology was "find a smart guy, pay him just enough to invent something cool, patent the invention, and then tell the inventor to **** off and die." Copyright/patent/trademark in this country has never been about who creates something, it's about who gets it into the system first. Those two are not necessarily - or even often - the same entity.
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