What really gets to me and infuriates me, is that now the "Gatekeeping" begins hard.
Now you are scoffed at, when you want to play the system or continue to play the system. I understand to set a mark not buying (will do so myself I think).
But attacking people because they just wanna continue playing and pushing them to "leave the game" - its just gatekeeping.
If WotC can't pull their heads out of their asses long enough to realize that they are the problem then they don't deserve any money from anyone. Everyone should cancel their subs and use the free portion of the site until they try to charge you for that then leave for good. It's a pity that Wotc bought this site just to ruin D&D so quickly after that purchase, but perhaps another D&D Beyond type website will emerge for a different TTRPG. Good luck to those who wish to weather the storm, my sub is cancelled and I will find a new way to roll dice with my friends. They wanted us to allow them to steal from everyone that gave them free exposure under the OGL and now they will face the consequences of those actions. Just cancel your subs and expose their lies for what they are as they tell them. The truth is they are thieves, liars, and just trash humans. You wouldn't give your money to a criminal so don't give your money to WotC. It's just that simple.
Relinking this because more people need to see it. One of my favorite YT personalities, with a good track record on legal issues, dissecting the OGL situation and coming up with a pretty unique take. One we may see more of if people's rampant panicmongering somehow turns out to be true and Wizards makes the next try at a new OGL evil, too.
Also: Legal Eagle outright says "as a legal document the OGL kinda sucks". What it's done for the community obviously is the opposite of sucking, but man. A lawyer needs more than nine hundred words to order takeout, let alone set up licensing and contractual terms for an entire industry for decades to come. After what Devon's laid down here I'm kinda surprised nobody's taken Wizards to the cleaners over this issue yet.
I love Legal Eagle, but I'm part of the way through and... this has already been talked about, by Ryan Dancey.
The benefit of the original OGL was that it was a 'Peace Treaty', a document that promised WotC wouldn't sue you, despite the fact that they probably couldn't... because TSR had been suing people, using their superior resources to try to force people to concede or settle due to the expense of court costs.
Ryan Dancey also already covered that the OGL isn't really necessary. By trying this power play, WotC is absolutely risking a lawsuit and a court case that finds that they in actuality can't copyright essentially anything mechanical about DnD...
Execpt the community no longer need a "peace treaty" - you think if WotC sued a small 3PP that Paizo, Kobold etc. wouldn't file amicus briefs? And that their gofundme wouldn't burst through the roof. Paizo came out & said in their orc announcement that they only use the OGL so the community can share Paizo's work using a familiar license. If WotC sued a small 3PP, then some big boys are also under threat.
Execpt the community no longer need a "peace treaty" - you think if WotC sued a small 3PP that Paizo, Kobold etc. wouldn't file amicus briefs? And that their gofundme wouldn't burst through the roof. Paizo came out & said in their orc announcement that they only use the OGL so the community can share Paizo's work using a familiar license. If WotC sued a small 3PP, then some big boys are also under threat.
Which again makes one wonder why Pathfinder isn't through the roof in market share, if it is really that fantastic that people are so willing to throw all that extra money to save it.
Personally speaking, I came back to TTRPGs after a couple of decades+ & found D&D had the best online toolset. Wasn't even owned by WotC. Back when I started playing TTRPGs, D&D was low on the list of games we played - I played WFRP, VtM, WtA, Call of Cthulu & many more before learning D&D. The dominance ofj 5e & the rise of 3PP came together. A virtuous cycle for WotC. If the scene fractures again, I won't be disappointed.
That is actually entirely misconstrued, Yurei is encouraging that those who do choose to cut all ties to WoTC do not scream all over social media about how much they hate WoTC and will never do business with them again. Because that doesn't help anyone, Yurei isn't shaming people for walking away, but don't say you're leaving and then stick around to riot about something you apparently have no connection to anymore. "People like you" should let themselves calm down before making knee-jerk comments to a post about smart uses of anger.
+1 to the original sentiment. There's no point screaming for change if the change wil not change anything. If you're done, and nothing they can do will bring you back, then stop asking them to do things.
I believe the term is "Gaslighting":
"I don't like >thing<, stop doing >thing<! "Ok, we've stopped doing >Thing<, sorry!" "It's too late, I'm not coming back anyway".
What really gets to me and infuriates me, is that now the "Gatekeeping" begins hard.
Now you are scoffed at, when you want to play the system or continue to play the system. I understand to set a mark not buying (will do so myself I think).
But attacking people because they just wanna continue playing and pushing them to "leave the game" - its just gatekeeping.
Educating people is not the same as Gatekeeping.
I'm mad as hell, but I didn't tell my friend they shouldn't run the dragonlance game they'd already dropped money on - that'd be pointless. But I did suggest they educate themselves before they spent more money on 5e books, DnDB, or 5e products on VTTs. And additionally, I volunteered to follow it up by running PF2.
I'm also not going to approach random people and tell them they shouldn't play 5e - but you better believe I'll give them an opinion and places they can look for more info if they're interested in starting an rpg.
Which is a far cry from last November, where I would have suggested 5e is a fine choice for an entry level RPG.
We may not actually differ on this point, but I felt it important to lay out the difference.
+1 to the original sentiment. There's no point screaming for change if the change wil not change anything. If you're done, and nothing they can do will bring you back, then stop asking them to do things.
I believe the term is "Gaslighting":
"I don't like >thing<, stop doing >thing<! "Ok, we've stopped doing >Thing<, sorry!" "It's too late, I'm not coming back anyway".
Then why are you still here?
A lot of us paid for year long subscriptions and will use these forums to trash WotC every chance we get until those subscriptions run out or they cancel immediately and pay us back what is left on them.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The age of OGL is over. The Time of the ORC has come!
The moment that WotC declares OGL 1.0a "de-authorized", "revoked" or any such nonsense is the moment I release as much content as possible under OGL 1.0a and say, "Sue me WotC". OGL1.0a cannot be revoked. If thousands of us do it, the countersuit will be a class action suit.
+1 to the original sentiment. There's no point screaming for change if the change wil not change anything. If you're done, and nothing they can do will bring you back, then stop asking them to do things.
I believe the term is "Gaslighting":
"I don't like >thing<, stop doing >thing<! "Ok, we've stopped doing >Thing<, sorry!" "It's too late, I'm not coming back anyway".
Then why are you still here?
A lot of us paid for year long subscriptions and will use these forums to trash WotC every chance we get until those subscriptions run out or they cancel immediately and pay us back what is left on them.
There's the problem.
You paid for your subscription, not for the OGL to remain the same. 90% of people who play D&D don't even interact with the OGL at all. Plus, section 5.2 of the DDB terms of service (which you signed) says the same thing as everyone is blowing up over in the OGL, and it was there when you agreed to it.
So you're going to come on here and complain that you need your subsctiption (which you purchased whilst signing terms of service which you absolutely read like a responsible adult agreeing to a contract) needs to be refunded because an unreleased draft of a licence (which is in no way related to the subscription you purchased) was leaked, and you didn't like what was on it.
You might as well ask for a refund on your DDB subscription because the game Roborally no longer has the metal miniatures. Why should they pay you back for your subscription? What have they breached here? Technically the only trust that's really been breached was whoever signed an NDA and then leaked the OGL anyway.
I object to the title of this thread, it is insulting and discourteous to call fellow members of this forum "rabid hyenas."
A Reminder:
7. Flaming
Directing insulting/offensive messages to other users or otherwise demonstrating the intent to insult and/or create dissent is prohibited, as well as messaging not deemed to be courteous or respectful. The context of submitted material very much matters here and will be examined against the surrounding details or discussion.
A word to the wise on the OGL situation: if you have decided you will NEVER BUY FROM HASBROZARDS AGAIN and are busily whipping everyone you can into a zealous fervor of spite and fury seeking to do as much damage to Wizards as you can? You are not helping.
The community, together, put enough pressure on Wizards to get them to rethink their approach and pull back on some of their most egregious overreach. That is Good. We all did it, or at least we earned ground. The whole idea was to get Wizards to change their behavior or they'd lose their customers. Here's the rub - if you decide you're already a Lost Customer and absolutely nothing Wizards could ever do would woo you back, and you're just here to keep spewing invective aimed at everyone involved?
Wizards has absolutely no reason to listen to you or pay you any heed. You're already a write-off. There's no point in giving you the time of day. Your rabid snarling is not "pressure", it's just pointless noise. Everybody has a course of action they can take to apply pressure - cancel their subscription. Do that if you wish to do so, by all means. But keep in mind that if you want Wizards to reverse their course and change their actions, you have to be willing to entertain the possibility of continuing to do business with them should they do what you ask. This recent frothing riot over the Jan 13th Statement is beyond ridiculous. Yes, the statement is in Corpospeak. News flash: they're a corporation. They're gonna speak Corpospeak, Corpospeak exists for a reason. We all hate it, but we can't change it.
Be angry. Anger helps! You should be angry! Directed, focused anger won us some major concessions! But spite is worse than useless. Spite will do nothing but poison the entire process and make any further compromise or gaining of ground impossible. All you're doing when you ragepost endless spite in every thread in GD is making the forums a terrible place to be and hurting the community that's trying to band together and make changes happen.
Please. Calm down. Breathe. Have some water. And remember that if you continue to beat the dog over and over again after it's tried and tried to do what you want, eventually the dog will stop caring and bite you.
If it was a powerless dog you'd be correct. If it is a multi-Billion LLC with institutional investors you don't need to hold back, but should use all legal means of attack possible.
+1 to the original sentiment. There's no point screaming for change if the change wil not change anything. If you're done, and nothing they can do will bring you back, then stop asking them to do things.
I believe the term is "Gaslighting":
"I don't like >thing<, stop doing >thing<! "Ok, we've stopped doing >Thing<, sorry!" "It's too late, I'm not coming back anyway".
Then why are you still here?
A lot of us paid for year long subscriptions and will use these forums to trash WotC every chance we get until those subscriptions run out or they cancel immediately and pay us back what is left on them.
There's the problem.
You paid for your subscription, not for the OGL to remain the same. 90% of people who play D&D don't even interact with the OGL at all. Plus, section 5.2 of the DDB terms of service (which you signed) says the same thing as everyone is blowing up over in the OGL, and it was there when you agreed to it.
So you're going to come on here and complain that you need your subsctiption (which you purchased whilst signing terms of service which you absolutely read like a responsible adult agreeing to a contract) needs to be refunded because an unreleased draft of a licence (which is in no way related to the subscription you purchased) was leaked, and you didn't like what was on it.
You might as well ask for a refund on your DDB subscription because the game Roborally no longer has the metal miniatures. Why should they pay you back for your subscription? What have they breached here? Technically the only trust that's really been breached was whoever signed an NDA and then leaked the OGL anyway.
I don't want a refund. I will come on these forums and TRASH WotC EVERY DAY for the remainder of my subscription.
Section 5.2 is precisely why I chose NOT to put any campaign materials on this site.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The age of OGL is over. The Time of the ORC has come!
The moment that WotC declares OGL 1.0a "de-authorized", "revoked" or any such nonsense is the moment I release as much content as possible under OGL 1.0a and say, "Sue me WotC". OGL1.0a cannot be revoked. If thousands of us do it, the countersuit will be a class action suit.
If it was a powerless dog you'd be correct. If it is a multi-Billion LLC with institutional investors you don't need to hold back, but should use all legal means of attack possible.
And there is the rub. I can post on investor forums that are just now bringing this stuff up and point to posts right here on WotC's own product where WotC is TRASHED for their behavior.
Driving down investor confidence is the game now.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The age of OGL is over. The Time of the ORC has come!
The moment that WotC declares OGL 1.0a "de-authorized", "revoked" or any such nonsense is the moment I release as much content as possible under OGL 1.0a and say, "Sue me WotC". OGL1.0a cannot be revoked. If thousands of us do it, the countersuit will be a class action suit.
A word to the wise on the OGL situation: if you have decided you will NEVER BUY FROM HASBROZARDS AGAIN and are busily whipping everyone you can into a zealous fervor of spite and fury seeking to do as much damage to Wizards as you can? You are not helping.
The community, together, put enough pressure on Wizards to get them to rethink their approach and pull back on some of their most egregious overreach. That is Good. We all did it, or at least we earned ground. The whole idea was to get Wizards to change their behavior or they'd lose their customers. Here's the rub - if you decide you're already a Lost Customer and absolutely nothing Wizards could ever do would woo you back, and you're just here to keep spewing invective aimed at everyone involved?
Wizards has absolutely no reason to listen to you or pay you any heed. You're already a write-off. There's no point in giving you the time of day. Your rabid snarling is not "pressure", it's just pointless noise. Everybody has a course of action they can take to apply pressure - cancel their subscription. Do that if you wish to do so, by all means. But keep in mind that if you want Wizards to reverse their course and change their actions, you have to be willing to entertain the possibility of continuing to do business with them should they do what you ask. This recent frothing riot over the Jan 13th Statement is beyond ridiculous. Yes, the statement is in Corpospeak. News flash: they're a corporation. They're gonna speak Corpospeak, Corpospeak exists for a reason. We all hate it, but we can't change it.
Be angry. Anger helps! You should be angry! Directed, focused anger won us some major concessions! But spite is worse than useless. Spite will do nothing but poison the entire process and make any further compromise or gaining of ground impossible. All you're doing when you ragepost endless spite in every thread in GD is making the forums a terrible place to be and hurting the community that's trying to band together and make changes happen.
Please. Calm down. Breathe. Have some water. And remember that if you continue to beat the dog over and over again after it's tried and tried to do what you want, eventually the dog will stop caring and bite you.
If it was a powerless dog you'd be correct. If it is a multi-Billion LLC with institutional investors you don't need to hold back, but should use all legal means of attack possible.
It is precisely because of Hasbro and Wizards' multi-Billion size that Yueri made this post--they are large enough that they do not have to grovel over lost causes. They are not small businesses--if a customer says "I am going to leave for good" a small business cannot afford that loss and might bend over backwards to bring that person back. Hasbro? Why would they care? They have enough brand recognition and inertia behind them that, when someone burns a bridge, they do not need to build that bridge back.
They care about the people who crossed over the bridge out of Wizards land--the folks who are saying from the other side "hey, you can bring us back, but you have to earn it." Those are worthwhile data points to Hasbro. To use Yueri's terms, those people might be "angry" but they are not "spiteful"--they're still firmly in the realm of potential customers.
A mutli-billion dollar entity is very likely to change course if they see a large amount of angry, but likely customers who would return to the fold. They are not going to change course and spend their efforts rebuilding a bridge to someone who is unlikely to cross the bridge once built. They do not need to--they can let that person be functionally dead and it will not hit their bottom line all that hard.
And that is literally what Yeuri was saying in their post--be angry, make your anger known, cancel your subscription, use all sensible means of attack possible... just do not cross that line into being a useless distraction that drowns out the voices which will actually make a difference. At that point, when you are functionally dead, get out of the way, for you are not helping. All you are doing is causing the voices of the dead--who Hasbro/Wizards will not listen to--to drown out the voices of the living--who they absolutely will.
It is precisely because of Hasbro and Wizards' multi-Billion size that Yueri made this post--they are large enough that they do not have to grovel over lost causes. They are not small businesses--if a customer says "I am going to leave for good" a small business cannot afford that loss and might bend over backwards to bring that person back. Hasbro? Why would they care? They have enough brand recognition and inertia behind them that, when someone burns a bridge, they do not need to build that bridge back.
They care about the people who crossed over the bridge out of Wizards land--the folks who are saying from the other side "hey, you can bring us back, but you have to earn it." Those are worthwhile data points to Hasbro. To use Yueri's terms, those people might be "angry" but they are not "spiteful"--they're still firmly in the realm of potential customers.
A mutli-billion dollar entity is very likely to change course if they see a large amount of angry, but likely customers who would return to the fold. They are not going to change course and spend their efforts rebuilding a bridge to someone who is unlikely to cross the bridge once built. They do not need to--they can let that person be functionally dead and it will not hit their bottom line all that hard.
And that is literally what Yeuri was saying in their post--be angry, make your anger known, cancel your subscription, use all sensible means of attack possible... just do not cross that line into being a useless distraction that drowns out the voices which will actually make a difference. At that point, when you are functionally dead, get out of the way, for you are not helping. All you are doing is causing the voices of the dead--who Hasbro/Wizards will not listen to--to drown out the voices of the living--who they absolutely will.
I see a provocative insult in the title. Is that how Yurie is helping? By sowing further dissension? By mocking and demeaning others for expressing their frustration and anger?
As for the argument that leaving Dndbeyond is causing irreparable damage... WotC is doing the irreparable damage, not their disgruntled user base.
It is precisely because of Hasbro and Wizards' multi-Billion size that Yueri made this post--they are large enough that they do not have to grovel over lost causes. They are not small businesses--if a customer says "I am going to leave for good" a small business cannot afford that loss and might bend over backwards to bring that person back. Hasbro? Why would they care? They have enough brand recognition and inertia behind them that, when someone burns a bridge, they do not need to build that bridge back.
They care about the people who crossed over the bridge out of Wizards land--the folks who are saying from the other side "hey, you can bring us back, but you have to earn it." Those are worthwhile data points to Hasbro. To use Yueri's terms, those people might be "angry" but they are not "spiteful"--they're still firmly in the realm of potential customers.
A mutli-billion dollar entity is very likely to change course if they see a large amount of angry, but likely customers who would return to the fold. They are not going to change course and spend their efforts rebuilding a bridge to someone who is unlikely to cross the bridge once built. They do not need to--they can let that person be functionally dead and it will not hit their bottom line all that hard.
And that is literally what Yeuri was saying in their post--be angry, make your anger known, cancel your subscription, use all sensible means of attack possible... just do not cross that line into being a useless distraction that drowns out the voices which will actually make a difference. At that point, when you are functionally dead, get out of the way, for you are not helping. All you are doing is causing the voices of the dead--who Hasbro/Wizards will not listen to--to drown out the voices of the living--who they absolutely will.
It is a misdirection to suggest that individuals walking away don't matter, or aren't a concern. Individuals walking away are representative, and it would be a mistake for Hasbro to assume that each individual walking away only represents themselves. For every person walking away forever and saying something, how many did so silently? For every person walking away forever, how many friends and other players are they talking to and taking with them?
Players posting about leaving forever are the metaphorical "smoke". If they are ignored, WotC has no one to blame but themselves when they find their house has burned down. Their brand is on fire.
I understand the sentiment behind this thread, but I agree - the title is inflammatory and not really helpful. Namecalling on either side is not going to reduce the vitriol in the community right now.
Execpt the community no longer need a "peace treaty" - you think if WotC sued a small 3PP that Paizo, Kobold etc. wouldn't file amicus briefs? And that their gofundme wouldn't burst through the roof. Paizo came out & said in their orc announcement that they only use the OGL so the community can share Paizo's work using a familiar license. If WotC sued a small 3PP, then some big boys are also under threat.
Which again makes one wonder why Pathfinder isn't through the roof in market share, if it is really that fantastic that people are so willing to throw all that extra money to save it.
Given the events of the last 10 days or so, I'm perplexed that anyone would feel the need to ask this question. But give it a minute.
That is actually entirely misconstrued, Yurei is encouraging that those who do choose to cut all ties to WoTC do not scream all over social media about how much they hate WoTC and will never do business with them again. Because that doesn't help anyone, Yurei isn't shaming people for walking away, but don't say you're leaving and then stick around to riot about something you apparently have no connection to anymore. "People like you" should let themselves calm down before making knee-jerk comments to a post about smart uses of anger.
Yeah, everyone understands that they're desperately trying to save a billion dollar corporation that doesn't care about them in the slightest.
Here's the thing though, the rest of us are trying to do the opposite, so why would we leave??
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What really gets to me and infuriates me, is that now the "Gatekeeping" begins hard.
Now you are scoffed at, when you want to play the system or continue to play the system.
I understand to set a mark not buying (will do so myself I think).
But attacking people because they just wanna continue playing and pushing them to "leave the game" - its just gatekeeping.
If WotC can't pull their heads out of their asses long enough to realize that they are the problem then they don't deserve any money from anyone. Everyone should cancel their subs and use the free portion of the site until they try to charge you for that then leave for good. It's a pity that Wotc bought this site just to ruin D&D so quickly after that purchase, but perhaps another D&D Beyond type website will emerge for a different TTRPG. Good luck to those who wish to weather the storm, my sub is cancelled and I will find a new way to roll dice with my friends. They wanted us to allow them to steal from everyone that gave them free exposure under the OGL and now they will face the consequences of those actions. Just cancel your subs and expose their lies for what they are as they tell them. The truth is they are thieves, liars, and just trash humans. You wouldn't give your money to a criminal so don't give your money to WotC. It's just that simple.
Execpt the community no longer need a "peace treaty" - you think if WotC sued a small 3PP that Paizo, Kobold etc. wouldn't file amicus briefs? And that their gofundme wouldn't burst through the roof. Paizo came out & said in their orc announcement that they only use the OGL so the community can share Paizo's work using a familiar license. If WotC sued a small 3PP, then some big boys are also under threat.
Personally speaking, I came back to TTRPGs after a couple of decades+ & found D&D had the best online toolset. Wasn't even owned by WotC. Back when I started playing TTRPGs, D&D was low on the list of games we played - I played WFRP, VtM, WtA, Call of Cthulu & many more before learning D&D. The dominance ofj 5e & the rise of 3PP came together. A virtuous cycle for WotC. If the scene fractures again, I won't be disappointed.
That is actually entirely misconstrued, Yurei is encouraging that those who do choose to cut all ties to WoTC do not scream all over social media about how much they hate WoTC and will never do business with them again. Because that doesn't help anyone, Yurei isn't shaming people for walking away, but don't say you're leaving and then stick around to riot about something you apparently have no connection to anymore. "People like you" should let themselves calm down before making knee-jerk comments to a post about smart uses of anger.
Gimp
+1 to the original sentiment. There's no point screaming for change if the change wil not change anything. If you're done, and nothing they can do will bring you back, then stop asking them to do things.
I believe the term is "Gaslighting":
"I don't like >thing<, stop doing >thing<!
"Ok, we've stopped doing >Thing<, sorry!"
"It's too late, I'm not coming back anyway".
Then why are you still here?
Make your Artificer work with any other class with 174 Multiclassing Feats for your Artificer Multiclass Character!
DM's Guild Releases on This Thread Or check them all out on DMs Guild!
DrivethruRPG Releases on This Thread - latest release: My Character is a Werewolf: balanced rules for Lycanthropy!
I have started discussing/reviewing 3rd party D&D content on Substack - stay tuned for semi-regular posts!
Educating people is not the same as Gatekeeping.
I'm mad as hell, but I didn't tell my friend they shouldn't run the dragonlance game they'd already dropped money on - that'd be pointless. But I did suggest they educate themselves before they spent more money on 5e books, DnDB, or 5e products on VTTs. And additionally, I volunteered to follow it up by running PF2.
I'm also not going to approach random people and tell them they shouldn't play 5e - but you better believe I'll give them an opinion and places they can look for more info if they're interested in starting an rpg.
Which is a far cry from last November, where I would have suggested 5e is a fine choice for an entry level RPG.
We may not actually differ on this point, but I felt it important to lay out the difference.
A lot of us paid for year long subscriptions and will use these forums to trash WotC every chance we get until those subscriptions run out or they cancel immediately and pay us back what is left on them.
The age of OGL is over. The Time of the ORC has come!
The moment that WotC declares OGL 1.0a "de-authorized", "revoked" or any such nonsense is the moment I release as much content as possible under OGL 1.0a and say, "Sue me WotC". OGL1.0a cannot be revoked. If thousands of us do it, the countersuit will be a class action suit.
There's the problem.
You paid for your subscription, not for the OGL to remain the same. 90% of people who play D&D don't even interact with the OGL at all. Plus, section 5.2 of the DDB terms of service (which you signed) says the same thing as everyone is blowing up over in the OGL, and it was there when you agreed to it.
So you're going to come on here and complain that you need your subsctiption (which you purchased whilst signing terms of service which you absolutely read like a responsible adult agreeing to a contract) needs to be refunded because an unreleased draft of a licence (which is in no way related to the subscription you purchased) was leaked, and you didn't like what was on it.
You might as well ask for a refund on your DDB subscription because the game Roborally no longer has the metal miniatures. Why should they pay you back for your subscription? What have they breached here? Technically the only trust that's really been breached was whoever signed an NDA and then leaked the OGL anyway.
Make your Artificer work with any other class with 174 Multiclassing Feats for your Artificer Multiclass Character!
DM's Guild Releases on This Thread Or check them all out on DMs Guild!
DrivethruRPG Releases on This Thread - latest release: My Character is a Werewolf: balanced rules for Lycanthropy!
I have started discussing/reviewing 3rd party D&D content on Substack - stay tuned for semi-regular posts!
I object to the title of this thread, it is insulting and discourteous to call fellow members of this forum "rabid hyenas."
A Reminder:
Shills doing their best Trade Federation impersonation. "It's all perrrfectly legal..."
If it was a powerless dog you'd be correct. If it is a multi-Billion LLC with institutional investors you don't need to hold back, but should use all legal means of attack possible.
I don't want a refund. I will come on these forums and TRASH WotC EVERY DAY for the remainder of my subscription.
Section 5.2 is precisely why I chose NOT to put any campaign materials on this site.
The age of OGL is over. The Time of the ORC has come!
The moment that WotC declares OGL 1.0a "de-authorized", "revoked" or any such nonsense is the moment I release as much content as possible under OGL 1.0a and say, "Sue me WotC". OGL1.0a cannot be revoked. If thousands of us do it, the countersuit will be a class action suit.
And there is the rub. I can post on investor forums that are just now bringing this stuff up and point to posts right here on WotC's own product where WotC is TRASHED for their behavior.
Driving down investor confidence is the game now.
The age of OGL is over. The Time of the ORC has come!
The moment that WotC declares OGL 1.0a "de-authorized", "revoked" or any such nonsense is the moment I release as much content as possible under OGL 1.0a and say, "Sue me WotC". OGL1.0a cannot be revoked. If thousands of us do it, the countersuit will be a class action suit.
It is precisely because of Hasbro and Wizards' multi-Billion size that Yueri made this post--they are large enough that they do not have to grovel over lost causes. They are not small businesses--if a customer says "I am going to leave for good" a small business cannot afford that loss and might bend over backwards to bring that person back. Hasbro? Why would they care? They have enough brand recognition and inertia behind them that, when someone burns a bridge, they do not need to build that bridge back.
They care about the people who crossed over the bridge out of Wizards land--the folks who are saying from the other side "hey, you can bring us back, but you have to earn it." Those are worthwhile data points to Hasbro. To use Yueri's terms, those people might be "angry" but they are not "spiteful"--they're still firmly in the realm of potential customers.
A mutli-billion dollar entity is very likely to change course if they see a large amount of angry, but likely customers who would return to the fold. They are not going to change course and spend their efforts rebuilding a bridge to someone who is unlikely to cross the bridge once built. They do not need to--they can let that person be functionally dead and it will not hit their bottom line all that hard.
And that is literally what Yeuri was saying in their post--be angry, make your anger known, cancel your subscription, use all sensible means of attack possible... just do not cross that line into being a useless distraction that drowns out the voices which will actually make a difference. At that point, when you are functionally dead, get out of the way, for you are not helping. All you are doing is causing the voices of the dead--who Hasbro/Wizards will not listen to--to drown out the voices of the living--who they absolutely will.
I see a provocative insult in the title. Is that how Yurie is helping? By sowing further dissension? By mocking and demeaning others for expressing their frustration and anger?
As for the argument that leaving Dndbeyond is causing irreparable damage... WotC is doing the irreparable damage, not their disgruntled user base.
It is a misdirection to suggest that individuals walking away don't matter, or aren't a concern. Individuals walking away are representative, and it would be a mistake for Hasbro to assume that each individual walking away only represents themselves. For every person walking away forever and saying something, how many did so silently? For every person walking away forever, how many friends and other players are they talking to and taking with them?
Players posting about leaving forever are the metaphorical "smoke". If they are ignored, WotC has no one to blame but themselves when they find their house has burned down. Their brand is on fire.
I understand the sentiment behind this thread, but I agree - the title is inflammatory and not really helpful. Namecalling on either side is not going to reduce the vitriol in the community right now.
Given the events of the last 10 days or so, I'm perplexed that anyone would feel the need to ask this question. But give it a minute.
Yeah, everyone understands that they're desperately trying to save a billion dollar corporation that doesn't care about them in the slightest.
Here's the thing though, the rest of us are trying to do the opposite, so why would we leave??