It's a step in the right direction, but the trust has been damaged to a point that it might take years for me to forgive them without a major and significant change in WotC/Hasbro management. For me the Boycott remains in place until that time in which I can trust them again. As p2e is a brilliant system. And frankly the movie isn't my concern, sink or swim I just can care anymore for Hasbro and WotC. The cruise ship is sinking, and the small sail boat is rather pleasant.
I did not boycott and look forward to maybe things getting back to normal around here.
well, after today, I doubt I'll be using DnDB anytime soon. The trust is gone, and unless WotC does something amazing to regain trust, I can't see coming back. Pathfinder 2end is a great game, we have switched out gaming group over. We all have closed our subs, and got our refunds (Literally yesterday got the email of my full refund from DnDB.) The only reason I'm still posting is to close out things and basically say good bye. It feels like a messy divorce and we got to keep the kids.
It's a step in the right direction, but the trust has been damaged to a point that it might take years for me to forgive them without a major and significant change in WotC/Hasbro management. For me the Boycott remains in place until that time in which I can trust them again.
When is that though? In all honesty, Wizards of the Coast is a for-profit company, and they are going to want money. Their original plan for the Open Game License wasn't too terrible, it would mainly only affect big third-party publishers that work as money making machines. With Wizards of the Coast at least, we know they are listening to our concerns.
However, I highly doubt any other companies that own some of the other big role-playing games will treat you any better. They too are for-profit companies, and they want and need their money as well. Wizards of the Coast isn't evil. They work to make our wonderful game and cool new supplements for it. They may mess up on occasion, but the important thing to focus on is not that they made something of a mistake (because everyone makes mistakes), but that they worked to correct it and do better.
The Open Game License fiasco was bad and annoying. That being said, it wouldn't actually have directly hurt most fans too terribly, if at all. It wasn't too unreasonable for Wizards to not understand how this would cause the community to react in such an upset manner.
In conclusion, you play what you want to play. That being said, companies want money and they often make mistakes in trying to get just that. These things happen and Wizards couldn't really have predicted that they would roll a 1 on this. At this point in time, the Open Game License issue is over. If you want to leave for reasons other than protecting third-party publishers, then leave. We the community will welcome you with open arms if you ever want to come back.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explainHERE.
I wasn't planning on watching it anyway as I find movie theaters to just be terrible. I've had movies ruined for me over someone talking all the time or being on their phone or kids running around the theater or someone crinkling a candy wrapper right behind me. Or some technical problems like the focus being off or everything being too dark on the screen (which may be an artistic thing movies have been doing for... some reason) or sound not working.
I wish I could say that I'm exaggerating and it's not all the time, but SOMETHING I listed happens every time I go to a movie and I hate it. So I wasn't going to see the D&D movie in theaters with or without the recent drama.
When is that though? In all honesty, Wizards of the Coast is a for-profit company, and they are going to want money. Their original plan for the Open Game License wasn't too terrible, it would mainly only affect big third-party publishers that work as money making machines. With Wizards of the Coast at least, we know they are listening to our concerns.
However, I highly doubt any other companies that own some of the other big role-playing games will treat you any better. They too are for-profit companies, and they want and need their money as well. Wizards of the Coast isn't evil. They work to make our wonderful game and cool new supplements for it. They may mess up on occasion, but the important thing to focus on is not that they made something of a mistake (because everyone makes mistakes), but that they worked to correct it and do better.
The Open Game License fiasco was bad and annoying. That being said, it wouldn't actually have directly hurt most fans too terribly, if at all. It wasn't too unreasonable for Wizards to not understand how this would cause the community to react in such an upset manner.
In conclusion, you play what you want to play. That being said, companies want money and they often make mistakes in trying to get just that. These things happen and Wizards couldn't really have predicted that they would roll a 1 on this. At this point in time, the Open Game License issue is over. If you want to leave for reasons other than protecting third-party publishers, then leave. We the community will welcome you with open arms if you ever want to come back.
I'm not going to go into the long ins & outs, but the only "big company" was Hasbro, Piazo the next highest earning fully independent company (There are a few not so independent companies which earn more... ie Critical Role & the guys behind Eberron, but they have exclusive deals with D&D).
Hasbro earnings: $1.9 billion with $194.3 million in profits. With WotC being responsible for over 70% of the profits. Half of that number is D&D (use to be 90% from MtG, and about 10% from D&D).
Piazo earns approximately $12m (although estimates for 2023 have increased to $32m). They have 125 employees. who earn an approximate average of $96,000, not counting publishing costs. take some time do the math. You will see Paizo barely breaks even. They must, because they are still in business, but they are not some big company. They are the equivalent of a mom & pop store in a busy mall.
BTW, when you deep dive into other content creators and "major" companies in TTPGs you will find they are all about the same. Only D&D has been earning a real profit, besides like I said their direct contracts.
So who would the OGL 1.1 hurt, anyone who ever published a book under it, myself included. (It was an Iron Heroes based book) Who would the 1.2 hurt all your VTTS, and those creators who published under 1.0a, once again myself included.
What has WotC done by surrendering this fight? They have earned the right to earn trust that was lost. It could be years, if they pretend this never happened. So odds are 3rd party creators will not come back. Or they could make a visible and significate act to show they are deserving of our trust again. I hope they choose option 2, because I would actually like to see the film on opening night, and not 10 years later from the 99cent store bargin bin.
The boycott wasn't because my feelings were hurt, it was because they were doing stuff I wanted them not to do. They're not doing it anymore, so the boycott can end. And in record time, I'm pretty sure.
They don't get the laissez-faire, take-it-in-good-faith attitude that they used to get from me. I will no longer give them the benefit of a doubt when it seems like they're doing something shady or harmful or whatever. But for now, it's looking like I'll pay for my ticket to see the movie.
No, I will still continue to boycott all Hasbro products. There is zero trust left with that organization. Until I see significant changes in wotc's leadership structure, I will continue a full boycott. Frankly, unless hasbro divests wotc (which is now up to at least 75% of all profits of hasbro, based on yesterday's prelim financial statements), there is no way I can trust wotc and hasbro.
I still just can't get myself at all interested the movie. I also don't know anyone in the real world who is interested in the movie.
I'm not boycotting. I just can't find the energy to care.
I don't run forgotten realms and don't know anyone who did for anything other then first time campaigns. Baldur's gate series was my biggest time in forgotten realms and it didn't make me want to buy other things related to it. Decades back I knew lots of people who loves the whole Drizzt books. Except for specific works forgetable realms just doesn't have much of a hook past generic medieval fantasy and that is what the movie is set in. D&D isn't a setting itself but a ruleset and rules are not an interesting story or an interesting world but a framework to help an interesting story happen. It won't be my D&D or the D&D of the people I know. Generic medieval fantasy the movie just isn't getting me excited.
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It seems the message from the community has been heard loud and clear.
I'm curious as to how everyone sees the future from here
It's a step in the right direction, but the trust has been damaged to a point that it might take years for me to forgive them without a major and significant change in WotC/Hasbro management. For me the Boycott remains in place until that time in which I can trust them again. As p2e is a brilliant system. And frankly the movie isn't my concern, sink or swim I just can care anymore for Hasbro and WotC. The cruise ship is sinking, and the small sail boat is rather pleasant.
I did not boycott and look forward to maybe things getting back to normal around here.
Me neither. I have just signed Up again my subscription
well, after today, I doubt I'll be using DnDB anytime soon. The trust is gone, and unless WotC does something amazing to regain trust, I can't see coming back. Pathfinder 2end is a great game, we have switched out gaming group over. We all have closed our subs, and got our refunds (Literally yesterday got the email of my full refund from DnDB.) The only reason I'm still posting is to close out things and basically say good bye. It feels like a messy divorce and we got to keep the kids.
I'm with the OP. They did what I really wanted, so even though trust is badly damaged I'm standing down on completely avoiding the IP.
WOTC still is never getting any money from me.
They burned all good will and trust.
When is that though? In all honesty, Wizards of the Coast is a for-profit company, and they are going to want money. Their original plan for the Open Game License wasn't too terrible, it would mainly only affect big third-party publishers that work as money making machines. With Wizards of the Coast at least, we know they are listening to our concerns.
However, I highly doubt any other companies that own some of the other big role-playing games will treat you any better. They too are for-profit companies, and they want and need their money as well. Wizards of the Coast isn't evil. They work to make our wonderful game and cool new supplements for it. They may mess up on occasion, but the important thing to focus on is not that they made something of a mistake (because everyone makes mistakes), but that they worked to correct it and do better.
The Open Game License fiasco was bad and annoying. That being said, it wouldn't actually have directly hurt most fans too terribly, if at all. It wasn't too unreasonable for Wizards to not understand how this would cause the community to react in such an upset manner.
In conclusion, you play what you want to play. That being said, companies want money and they often make mistakes in trying to get just that. These things happen and Wizards couldn't really have predicted that they would roll a 1 on this. At this point in time, the Open Game License issue is over. If you want to leave for reasons other than protecting third-party publishers, then leave. We the community will welcome you with open arms if you ever want to come back.
BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explain
HERE.I wasn't planning on watching it anyway as I find movie theaters to just be terrible. I've had movies ruined for me over someone talking all the time or being on their phone or kids running around the theater or someone crinkling a candy wrapper right behind me. Or some technical problems like the focus being off or everything being too dark on the screen (which may be an artistic thing movies have been doing for... some reason) or sound not working.
I wish I could say that I'm exaggerating and it's not all the time, but SOMETHING I listed happens every time I go to a movie and I hate it. So I wasn't going to see the D&D movie in theaters with or without the recent drama.
I never needed to boycott the movie.
⌜╔═════════════ The Board ══════════════╗⌝
...and started me on my way into my next chapter in life...
⌞╚════════════ Extended Signature ════════════╝⌟
Yup. Boycotting something is always your choice as an individual. The title is a bit ridiculous because it makes boycotting out as a neccesity.
BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explain
HERE.Hard to boycott something I was never interested in in the first place.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
For me it was a necessity.
I'm not going to go into the long ins & outs, but the only "big company" was Hasbro, Piazo the next highest earning fully independent company (There are a few not so independent companies which earn more... ie Critical Role & the guys behind Eberron, but they have exclusive deals with D&D).
Hasbro earnings: $1.9 billion with $194.3 million in profits. With WotC being responsible for over 70% of the profits. Half of that number is D&D (use to be 90% from MtG, and about 10% from D&D).
Piazo earns approximately $12m (although estimates for 2023 have increased to $32m). They have 125 employees. who earn an approximate average of $96,000, not counting publishing costs. take some time do the math. You will see Paizo barely breaks even. They must, because they are still in business, but they are not some big company. They are the equivalent of a mom & pop store in a busy mall.
BTW, when you deep dive into other content creators and "major" companies in TTPGs you will find they are all about the same. Only D&D has been earning a real profit, besides like I said their direct contracts.
So who would the OGL 1.1 hurt, anyone who ever published a book under it, myself included. (It was an Iron Heroes based book) Who would the 1.2 hurt all your VTTS, and those creators who published under 1.0a, once again myself included.
What has WotC done by surrendering this fight? They have earned the right to earn trust that was lost. It could be years, if they pretend this never happened. So odds are 3rd party creators will not come back. Or they could make a visible and significate act to show they are deserving of our trust again. I hope they choose option 2, because I would actually like to see the film on opening night, and not 10 years later from the 99cent store bargin bin.
The boycott wasn't because my feelings were hurt, it was because they were doing stuff I wanted them not to do. They're not doing it anymore, so the boycott can end. And in record time, I'm pretty sure.
They don't get the laissez-faire, take-it-in-good-faith attitude that they used to get from me. I will no longer give them the benefit of a doubt when it seems like they're doing something shady or harmful or whatever. But for now, it's looking like I'll pay for my ticket to see the movie.
You didn't need to boycott the movie in the first place. I've said this countless times before but
THE MOVIE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE OGL.
[REDACTED]
Ummmm...why are you here then?
If you want to be technical about it, neither did DDB subscriptions. Didn't stop the message from being made.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I still just can't get myself at all interested the movie. I also don't know anyone in the real world who is interested in the movie.
I'm not boycotting. I just can't find the energy to care.
I don't run forgotten realms and don't know anyone who did for anything other then first time campaigns. Baldur's gate series was my biggest time in forgotten realms and it didn't make me want to buy other things related to it. Decades back I knew lots of people who loves the whole Drizzt books. Except for specific works forgetable realms just doesn't have much of a hook past generic medieval fantasy and that is what the movie is set in. D&D isn't a setting itself but a ruleset and rules are not an interesting story or an interesting world but a framework to help an interesting story happen. It won't be my D&D or the D&D of the people I know. Generic medieval fantasy the movie just isn't getting me excited.